On Her Majesty’s Secret Service: Remastered and Expanded Limited Edition (La-La Land Records)

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Comments

  • nsb1234nsb1234 Sunny California
    Posts: 31
    Bondssan wrote: »
    Question regarding the song Do You Know How Christmas Trees Are Grown?
    1. The French cover sung by Isabelle Aubret: Savez-vous ce qu'il faut au sapin de Noël?
    2. And the German cover sung by Katja Ebstein: Wovon träumt ein Weihnachtsbaum im Mai?
    They do not feature on this edition: was it a question of copyright ? or space on the discs? Or was it simply LaLaLand wanted to stick to the English songs?

    I looked into the German version but never found a master. It wasn't recorded at the main sessions and the discs filled up fast (both are over 75 minutes), so there was no point in pursuing it.

    Neil
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,643
    Was it the same case with the Johnny Mathis Moonraker?
  • nsb1234nsb1234 Sunny California
    edited July 11 Posts: 31
    mtm wrote: »
    Was it the same case with the Johnny Mathis Moonraker?

    There is no Johnny Mathis "Moonraker" as far as I can tell. The "Alternate" Main and End Titles on the "Moonraker" CD were from a 2" tape that specifically said it didn't have vocals.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,643
    Oh interesting, I thought Burlingame said it was recorded.
  • nsb1234nsb1234 Sunny California
    Posts: 31
    There's no evidence of that.
  • zebrafishzebrafish <°)))< in Octopussy's garden in the shade
    Posts: 4,453
    Just checked: Mathis recorded in L.A., but the vocals, which were perfect for Frank Sinatra, just did not work with Johnny Mathis.
    I guess they erased the tape.
  • nsb1234nsb1234 Sunny California
    Posts: 31
    "Johnny Mathis sang Moonraker" is the new "The Moonraker tapes are lost."

    Anyway....On Her Majesty's Secret Service
  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,661
    @nsb1234 How long does the process from approval to completion generally take for these releases?
  • nsb1234nsb1234 Sunny California
    Posts: 31
    It's not something you can set your watch to. I recently had some art approved in two days. I've had other projects take months.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 11 Posts: 18,643
    nsb1234 wrote: »
    "Johnny Mathis sang Moonraker" is the new "The Moonraker tapes are lost."

    I mean maybe, but Jon Burlingame has a quote from John Barry saying:
    "The following day we decided this was just not working for us, through no fault of his. It was just one of those things. Paul is a fantastic songwriter; Johnny Mathis can sing the hell out of a ballad. It just didn't work." He also says that when Hal David flew out to meet Barry the only recording Barry had to play him was the Mathis one with the Williams lyric, which he didn't want to hear. I dunno, maybe he or they made it all up but he seems fairly convinced by the story.
    Maybe Barry was talking about the Williams lyric and just the idea of Mathis singing it wouldn't work? Doesn't quite seem to fit though. I'm not saying Burlingame is necessarily 100% correct but there's something going on there. Looking in the notes he seems to say he had an email from Mathis confirming it in 2011.
  • Posts: 127
    Welcome to the board @nsb1234.

    Re: the new OHMSS release, is the film version of ‘Escape from Piz Gloria’ identical structurally to the album version, apart from the tremolo strings at the start? Presumably it was a different take, so there are subtle differences in the instrumentation/intonation?

    Also does the ‘Grand Christmas Eve Ball’ track alternate between the ‘oom pa-pa’ brass band and skating music throughout? I’m just wondering if either melody develops or if it’s the same one on loop for the 2 minutes 55? Thank you.
  • nsb1234nsb1234 Sunny California
    Posts: 31
    mtm wrote: »
    nsb1234 wrote: »
    "Johnny Mathis sang Moonraker" is the new "The Moonraker tapes are lost."

    I mean maybe, but Jon Burlingame has a quote from John Barry saying:
    "The following day we decided this was just not working for us, through no fault of his. It was just one of those things. Paul is a fantastic songwriter; Johnny Mathis can sing the hell out of a ballad. It just didn't work." He also says that when Hal David flew out to meet Barry the only recording Barry had to play him was the Mathis one with the Williams lyric, which he didn't want to hear. I dunno, maybe he or they made it all up but he seems fairly convinced by the story.
    Maybe Barry was talking about the Williams lyric and just the idea of Mathis singing it wouldn't work? Doesn't quite seem to fit though. I'm not saying Burlingame is necessarily 100% correct but there's something going on there. Looking in the notes he seems to say he had an email from Mathis confirming it in 2011.

    Before I go any further, I want to make it perfectly clear that Jon Burlingame is an impeccable researcher and writer. I don't know if you're implying he made something up or not, but I'm telling you right now, that is not the case.

    With that out of the way, I think it's possible for new research to shed light on things. This is how we learn and grow. The book was written in 2012, before any of us heard the "Moonraker" recordings. Fun fact, I spent a day with Jon going through recording sessions for several other Bond films as research for his book, but again, we didn't have "Moonraker."

    Without archival evidence it's difficult to say for certain Mathis recorded this. Did they try? Did they rehearse? It seems something happened but was anything laid down to tape? Dan Wallin wrote on the tape box that it doesn't have a vocal, and it doesn't. I can see on the track sheet where the vocal should be yet it's blank on the tape. I can't say what was attempted as I wasn't there, so I can't say there's a Mathis recording. None of the documentation I've seen (tape box, track sheet, musicians list) even names a vocalist. Sadly the archival record is incomplete on this so we're going by interviews.

    It's possible for peoples memories and views to get distorted. In that same chapter, Barry is quoted on page 138 saying, "Moonraker" will have "...more music in this Bond film than the others." It turns out, even with the unused cues, that's not the case. It's 56 minutes and shorter than "Golden Guns" 65 minutes and much shorter than "OHMSS." Barry also complains on page 144 about the music mix saying, "For some odd reason, Lewis Gilbert decided to play it in monaural." That's been taken as gospel by some, but it's not correct. I've heard the 3-track music masters and I've seen vintage 35mm prints. The music is stereo as it is on home video as well.

    Perhaps someday a tape will show up with the Mathis vocal. Then we'll all know which lyrics were performed and we'll be able to solve this mystery. Until that happens, I can't say for certain this version was recorded. I hope you understand. I'd also be happy to be proven wrong because no one likes solving a musical mystery more than me.

    Now bringing this back to our subject of OHMSS, Hal David is quoted in Burlingame's book on pages 89-90 about Louis Armstrong recording "We Have All The Time In The World". "He did two or three takes and that was it." It's a lovely story. However, Armstrong recorded 15 takes, with take 15 being the album version. Take 10 is the unused film version. The recordings and paperwork back all of this up.
    Re: the new OHMSS release, is the film version of ‘Escape from Piz Gloria’ identical structurally to the album version, apart from the tremolo strings at the start? Presumably it was a different take, so there are subtle differences in the instrumentation/intonation?

    Yes, it's the same composition.
    Also does the ‘Grand Christmas Eve Ball’ track alternate between the ‘oom pa-pa’ brass band and skating music throughout?

    Yes.

    Neil
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 11 Posts: 18,643
    nsb1234 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    nsb1234 wrote: »
    "Johnny Mathis sang Moonraker" is the new "The Moonraker tapes are lost."

    I mean maybe, but Jon Burlingame has a quote from John Barry saying:
    "The following day we decided this was just not working for us, through no fault of his. It was just one of those things. Paul is a fantastic songwriter; Johnny Mathis can sing the hell out of a ballad. It just didn't work." He also says that when Hal David flew out to meet Barry the only recording Barry had to play him was the Mathis one with the Williams lyric, which he didn't want to hear. I dunno, maybe he or they made it all up but he seems fairly convinced by the story.
    Maybe Barry was talking about the Williams lyric and just the idea of Mathis singing it wouldn't work? Doesn't quite seem to fit though. I'm not saying Burlingame is necessarily 100% correct but there's something going on there. Looking in the notes he seems to say he had an email from Mathis confirming it in 2011.

    Before I go any further, I want to make it perfectly clear that Jon Burlingame is an impeccable researcher and writer. I don't know if you're implying he made something up or not, but I'm telling you right now, that is not the case.

    No absolutely not, I was just trying not to make it seem like I'm saying you're wrong. Both yourself and Mr Burlingame have clearly done lots of research into the matter but just come up with different findings.
    nsb1234 wrote: »
    With that out of the way, I think it's possible for new research to shed light on things. This is how we learn and grow. The book was written in 2012, before any of us heard the "Moonraker" recordings. Fun fact, I spent a day with Jon going through recording sessions for several other Bond films as research for his book, but again, we didn't have "Moonraker."

    Without archival evidence it's difficult to say for certain Mathis recorded this. Did they try? Did they rehearse? It seems something happened but was anything laid down to tape? Dan Wallin wrote on the tape box that it doesn't have a vocal, and it doesn't. I can see on the track sheet where the vocal should be yet it's blank on the tape. I can't say what was attempted as I wasn't there, so I can't say there's a Mathis recording. None of the documentation I've seen (tape box, track sheet, musicians list) even names a vocalist. Sadly the archival record is incomplete on this so we're going by interviews.

    It's possible for peoples memories and views to get distorted. In that same chapter, Barry is quoted on page 138 saying, "Moonraker" will have "...more music in this Bond film than the others." It turns out, even with the unused cues, that's not the case. It's 56 minutes and shorter than "Golden Guns" 65 minutes and much shorter than "OHMSS." Barry also complains on page 144 about the music mix saying, "For some odd reason, Lewis Gilbert decided to play it in monaural." That's been taken as gospel by some, but it's not correct. I've heard the 3-track music masters and I've seen vintage 35mm prints. The music is stereo as it is on home video as well.

    Perhaps someday a tape will show up with the Mathis vocal. Then we'll all know which lyrics were performed and we'll be able to solve this mystery. Until that happens, I can't say for certain this version was recorded. I hope you understand. I'd also be happy to be proven wrong because no one likes solving a musical mystery more than me.

    That's very interesting, thank you. I think it was just the suggestion that it's the equivalent of the 'Moonraker tapes are lost' Chinese whispers thing -which was entirely untrue- to say Mathis sang Moonraker, when that seems a bit unlikely when apparently John Barry and Mathis himself both seem to have remembered doing it. In terms of memories being distorted, I'd say getting facts and figures a bit off is a bit different to remembering flying to LA to meet with Johnny Mathis after all! :) The 'Moonraker tapes lost' story came about because, after all, Lukas Kendall just said he didn't have access to them, so perhaps in this situation too, not having access to a recording again doesn't necessarily mean it doesn't exist, after all! :)
    Maybe they just rehearsed it for a day and never recorded anything, or the recordings were disposed of or something like that, but it seems like something happened. I think there's a bit more truth to it that the 'tapes are lost' story had, that's all, I'm not trying to offend you.
  • morcarvicmorcarvic france
    Posts: 113
    any chance there's misrembrance at play here ,the only barry theme [with lyric added later] recorded by mathis that i can remember was "midnight cowboy".
  • nsb1234nsb1234 Sunny California
    Posts: 31
    Desperately trying to get this thread back to OHMSS (I'm happy to discuss the other albums in their respective threads).

    If you want to hear (and see) me talk about the new "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" soundtrack album, I recorded this podcast with the "To Live And Let Die In L.A." guys the other day.

  • edited July 12 Posts: 278
    Wow very interesting, thank you for the insights of the processing the expanded scores.

    P.S: I totaly agree with you about the SP-Gunbarrel
  • morcarvicmorcarvic france
    Posts: 113
    question for neil regarding "dykhctag wild instrumental " is this track a stand-alone presentation of the music that in the film would be interspersed with the track you've titled deep hypnosis [essentially separating it] or a completely different version?
  • nsb1234nsb1234 Sunny California
    Posts: 31
    morcarvic wrote: »
    question for neil regarding "dykhctag wild instrumental " is this track a stand-alone presentation of the music that in the film would be interspersed with the track you've titled deep hypnosis [essentially separating it] or a completely different version?

    It's the version that plays a few times when the girls run in and get their presents. It's not interspersed in the film with "Deep Hypnosis" but I think the previous album combined them.

    Also, I thought, "dykhctag" was Klingon!

    Neil
  • mattjoesmattjoes Joe Don baker
    edited July 12 Posts: 7,225
    That was a fun interview. I only wish they'd asked Neil more about the nitty gritty of putting together the OHMSS album itself. Loved the Gumbold's Safe anecdote and the stuff about the main title takes. Useful to know as well that masters of the first three films could not be located.
  • Posts: 80
    My copy is on its way from La-La. Hoping it’ll arrive this week! Can’t wait to give it a spin.
  • Posts: 283
    LeighBurne wrote: »
    My copy is on its way from La-La. Hoping it’ll arrive this week! Can’t wait to give it a spin.

    When they ship? I ordered one.
  • Posts: 80
    When they ship? I ordered one.

    Mine shipped Saturday. But I get the impression La-La doesn’t have an especially large shipping department - several times now I’ve seen them asking people who’ve ordered the latest releases to be patient while they get through the backlog of pre-orders.

    My experience is, once they actually ship stuff out, it tends to arrived pretty quickly.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,643
    Arriving tomorrow for me :)
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 14,606
    Just ordered yesterday but I have all time...
  • DwayneDwayne New York City
    Posts: 3,026
    My order is showing up as "shipped" with an estimated delivery date of next Wednesday (July 23rd).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited July 18 Posts: 18,643
    I like the film version of Try; are the strings a little stronger on that version or is it my imagination?
    I'm not very far in but the sound is so lovely and warm. Fun to hear the little Bond theme motif in The Capu. And never noticed the unique orchestration in Resignation before.
    Prelude for Guitar and Strings is ridiculous. Imagine writing something that beautiful just for a bit of background music, and then leaving it off the soundtrack album. Or never even using it again (as far as I'm aware).
    Goodness me Journey To Piz Gloria sounds amazing. You just want to stick your head in the speakers.
    I've always thought Eight was one of the best things Barry has ever written somehow.
  • Posts: 18,044
    Ordered the expanded score from the 007 store, only to discover a while afterwards that it would be cheaper to buy it directly from La-La Land Records. Oh well, I guess if the CD ships from the UK, it will arrive much sooner.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 18,643
    Ordered the expanded score from the 007 store, only to discover a while afterwards that it would be cheaper to buy it directly from La-La Land Records. Oh well, I guess if the CD ships from the UK, it will arrive much sooner.

    Is it though? Last time it was actually marginally cheaper to buy from 007 for the UK (once shipping etc. was taken into account), I didn't check this time though.
  • Posts: 80
    My copy arrived today. Sadly don’t know when I’ll get a chance to listen to it but the packaging is predictably good.

    Really dying to give it a spin!
  • edited July 19 Posts: 18,044
    mtm wrote: »
    Ordered the expanded score from the 007 store, only to discover a while afterwards that it would be cheaper to buy it directly from La-La Land Records. Oh well, I guess if the CD ships from the UK, it will arrive much sooner.

    Is it though? Last time it was actually marginally cheaper to buy from 007 for the UK (once shipping etc. was taken into account), I didn't check this time though.

    The album release is currently £39.00 on the 007 store, but $32.98 (£24,59) on lalalandrecords.com.

    Shipping can obviously give you a totally different cost when everything is added, but shipping to Norway in this case, gave me these numbers:

    The order from 007.com with shipping included was £54.00, but there's an additional VAT on items purchased from websites abroad, so the order was £67,34 in total.

    The same order, if placed on lalalandrecords.com, would have been $56.48 (or £42,11). Adding the VAT, the order would have been £52,55 in total if purchasing from La-La Land Records.

    I didn't even check this when placing my order, as I expected the album to be roughly the same price on both sites, with shipping considerably cheaper from the 007 store. Visiting the La-La Land site earlier today however, I saw that the album itself was cheaper, as well as the total cost with everything taken into account. Lesson learned!
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