Big Mi6 James Bond film ranking game - A few stats!

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  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,183
    peter wrote: »
    I think this was my 21st.

    There are many elements I really admire about this film, but as a whole, I just don't get that punch in the gut that I want from a Bond film. Brosnan's second film really scratches that itch for me, at least for two thirds of it (I can't stand the third act and find it one of the worst, but, up until then, Brosnan just seems so relaxed and assured, and fun, and funny).

    Just went back to my files and it appears you ranked it 17th :)
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,509
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    peter wrote: »
    I think this was my 21st.

    There are many elements I really admire about this film, but as a whole, I just don't get that punch in the gut that I want from a Bond film. Brosnan's second film really scratches that itch for me, at least for two thirds of it (I can't stand the third act and find it one of the worst, but, up until then, Brosnan just seems so relaxed and assured, and fun, and funny).

    Just went back to my files and it appears you ranked it 17th :)

    Ah, thank you, 😂

    Don't know why I thought it was 21?!! But same applies. Lots to love, but as a whole didn't give me that jolt.
  • BennyBenny Shaken not stirredAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 15,158
    GE ranked 9th for me, so close enough to its actual spot.
    This was a Bond film that for many years didn't appeal or work for me. I enjoyed it when it first came out in '95 and saw it five times at the movies. But after the 80's John Glen Bond films this had a completely different look and feel. It took time to get onboard.
    But when I did see it for the wonderful film it is, it surged up my ranking to a place within my top ten.

    Good :

    The pts is a classic and one of the best. Though I've never been a huge fan of the skydiving after the plane bit. It never looked good.

    The tank chase is one of the best chase / set pieces in all the Bond films. It's wonderfully set up, does everything I'd want in an action scene and looks fantastic. Chuck in a large dose of the Bond theme and you have a real winner.

    The villains, Trevelyan, Onatopp and Ourumov are all terrific bad guys, and really elevate the film.

    The climax is one that feels very Bondian, a larger-than-life villains lair, an epic fight high above the ground that puts Bond in real danger. Great stuff.

    Pierce Brosnan, he may not be my favorite Bond, but in his debut he really sells it. He's wonderfully suave and charming. Looks great and can do the action and humor easily.
    It's a very good Bond performance.

    Bad :

    I'm not a huge fan of the Eric Serra score, for parts of it feels like a rehash / blend of his work on Leon: The Professional from the previous year.

    Some of the model work is a bit iffy. No disrespect to Derek Meddings but some of the model work is clearly a model. The exploding chemical factory in the pts and the jets crashing into Severnya being a couple of examples.

    The BMW Z3, I have no idea why they chucked this in. Obviously for some promotional exposure. When we're introduced to the car in Q's lab we're told of some of the gadgets, but when it's seen driving later in the film it does sod all.
    For a Bond film this is not good enough. A gadget car should be seen using said gadgets.

    Luckily the good far outweigh the bad, so GE earns its place in the top ten.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,183
    For our number 007, we'll have to say arrivederci to another Bond actor, in:

    THE SPY WHO LOVED ME (1977)
    Directed by Lewis Gilbert

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    "Well done, James."

    Without gold medals, this one, which means no-one rated one of Rog's entries as their favourite.

    TSWLM did obtain two bronzes, three 4th places and seven more top 10's between the 6th and the 10th spot.

    (We should mention here, that the highest any Moore entry ended, was when OP ended 2nd in one member's ranking.)

    Eight participants ranked TSWLM between 11th and 20th, while two members gave it a bottom 5 spot. The lowest score was one 23rd place.

    Still though, Spy remains the highest-ranked entry of the Rog years. And even though some may have expected an even higher finish, this one still stands as a classic for a large portion of the fanbase.

    TSWLM ended up with a total of 136 points.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,546
    #4 for me; it's just one of the very best, and I certainly alternate between times when I consider it to be the best one. It's just pure entertainment and a solidly great time.
  • Posts: 7,527
    TSWLM is #15 for me! I've for a long time thought it overrated, and I preferred Rogers other Bonds! I've warmed to it a lot recently, and it's enjoyable but it has a lot of downsides to it. For one it's has a very boring villain in Stromberg, and Barbara Bach, though very easy on the eye, is equally dull! I also never been a fan of Jaws, and the scene with the van is juvenile humour of the worst kind, also Marvin Hamlischs jokey score tends to irritate, at worst when said van is bouncing over the dunes and then we get that silly sound effect when it breaks down! This isn't a Tex Avery cartoon Marv!
    The film is more spectacular than Rog previous Bond movies and with better cinematography, but I have to say I don't find a lot of the action very exciting, and the end battle a little slow! The pts ski sequence is superb and the ski jump outstanding moment, after that there isn't one set piece I can say is a standout. Oh, I must mention Binders cheeky titles sequence, though the song is just ok, not one of my favourites!
  • Posts: 4,258
    3 for me. It's one that I actually didn't used to like up until the last couple of years or so. It's a really well crafted film though, such a step up from the later Hamilton films.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,231
    #21 for me. Probably deserves a better spot, though. I am in love with this film's atmosphere, its amazing -- AMAZING!! -- sets, beautiful locations and action. The film effectively reintroduces "larger-than-life" in the Bonds, much needed after the depths of DAF, LALD and TMWTGG. The cast works for me. And yet...

    Some of the silly stuff is a bit much for me. Also, things happen "for reasons" that make little sense to me. The plot is not great -- serviceable but not great.

    All in all, this is "the one that had Kubrick on the set." I love the film. But in this ranking, it ended where it did. I'm sorry.
  • edited August 29 Posts: 4,258
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Some of the silly stuff is a bit much for me. Also, things happen "for reasons" that make little sense to me. The plot is not great -- serviceable but not great.

    One thing I actually find really interesting about the plot is it's very modern in a sense. Once we get to Egypt Bond gets into a routine of having to find a specific character, get whatever information he needs from them, go through some sort of fight/action scene, and then move on to the next character/objective before ultimately getting to Jaws. Even after that there's a very 'objective' oriented flow.

    It might be because it's a film with a quick pace, but it reminds me much more of a modern Bond film or even a video game. I like it personally. It feels like Bond has to constantly stay on his toes due to all the things that get thrown at him. Some are a bit more random (it's one of those Bond film mysteries as to what is actually going with the girl who gets shot).
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 29 Posts: 3,799
    Ranked #18 for me.

    It's a film that I do find a bit overrated, I give the credit for how iconic it is, much like Goldfinger, but the film have so many flaws that I wouldn't call it one of the best.

    If there's a worst sin that a Bond film could commit for me, personally, it's disappointment, and this film have nailed it, it's a film with many wasted potentials and I disliked it for that very particular reason, I'm disappointed, I have high expectations but this film just didn't lived up to it.

    The cast were dull, and so their characters, Stromberg is not that menacing and threatening as a villain, Curd Jurgens' performance clearly didn't helped and I don't even get his motivation behind his plan of starting a World War, Valerie Leon was stiff, the man playing Sandor was very forgettable, Olga Bisera (Felicca), Fekkesh, I mean every supporting characters failed to leave a mark in terms of performance, then there's Barbara Bach (the big elephant in the room) who can't act to save her life, the obvious line readings, stiff, robotic and wooden acting, lack of facial expressions and the silly and unconvincing Russian accent really plagues the film everytime I'm watching it, then Anya Amasova, a character with a potential but was never realized, for one, I will never ever buy her as a well experienced, high ranking Russian Military Agent (KGB), just no, she did nothing, mostly depending on Bond and can't even fight to save her life that Bond needs to save her many times (first, against Jaws in the train, the second was in the finale), she's very incompetent as a Russian Agent, very passive, a complete damsel in distress (she's just Solitaire 2.0 just turned Agent), she would've been more believable as a Tatiana Romanova like character instead of this, then, as much as the killing of her boyfriend was an interesting aspect, the film never fully realized its potential, mostly at the backseat and the inclusion of it in the second half was almost felt like an afterthought, it's a good character study, no doubt, but I want more focus on that, then there's the rivalry that again, I don't buy and will never will because Anya fell in love too quickly with Bond, even showing her jealousy towards Naomie (Stromberg's secretary) when Bond got smitten by her, I don't need any (even subtle) love triangle between Anya and Naomie, her jealousy was on par with Pam Bouvier in Licence To Kill when she became jealous of Lupe.

    Jaws was never menacing for me either, mostly a cartoon like figure, very OTT, he's no Oddjob or Red Grant (and I think Moonraker would've been better without him), yes, I agree with @Mathis1 here, that Van scene is a bad scene at all, mostly comical, and doesn't helped that Bond was not taking the situation seriously.

    And speaking of Bond himself, he comes more as smug here, if Pierce was smug in Goldeneye, then Moore was Ten Times more smug, sexist and arrogant in this film.
    No danger felt in this film, mostly because Bond was in control for most of the time, beating the villains effortlessly without even breaking a sweat and mostly comfortable and relaxed, not showing signs of fear or vulnerability.
    Moore's delivery of lines was mostly like phoning it in, not in the mood and flat, just dull, those humors that should be funny never landed because of how Moore delivered it without any feelings.

    The pacing was slow and the middle act was almost forgettable that I don't remember anything about it sans the Lotus Esprit car chase.

    The score was discotheque and doesn't have the Bondian feel to it.

    The cinematography is okay, particularly in the Egyptian scenes but most are dull, particularly in the Tanker scene at the end.

    The plot was interesting, although a rehash of You Only Live Twice.

    I liked the Title Sequence, the PTS, and the theme song, and the plot, I'll give it those, but that's where it all ends, the film just didn't lived up to the hype of what it was trying to do, it had a great potential, on paper, but was never realized, and I know that my ranking for it would be for a long time.

    If there's Bond film I'd liked to see got a remake treatment, it's this film, correct those mistakes of this film and make the premise better in execution.

  • R1s1ngs0nR1s1ngs0n France
    Posts: 2,158
    #10 for me.
    A lot of the things I used to love about this movie when I was younger (Jaws in particular, but also the climax and Bach’s Amasova) now seem subpar or downright corny compared to other Bond films from the classic era.
    It is essentially YOLT v2 but I vastly prefer Gilbert’s first effort.
    That said, it still features several outstanding moments that are pure Bond magic, pushing this entry (just barely) into the 10th spot.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,183
    14th for me.

    Bang in the middle of my Rog rankings.

    It's a gorgeous-looking extravanganza with a few very fine stunts (ski chase + Lotus chase), and I also quite like the disco score. I guess I'm just a sucker for that kind of sound.

    Quick shoutout to Shane Rimmer, who I think made a superb ally here and gets often overlooked. Undeservedly so, imo.

    What takes this down a bit, is the robotic performance Barbara Bach gives, or maybe she was instructed to do so, whatever the reasons are, it's so-so acting for a potentially great character. Rog is too smug to her too, except for that scene in which he admits to have killed her boyfriend. I wish there was a scene in which her competence got more highlighted. She then even becomes captured near the end too. Potential wasted here, if you ask me. In MR we get a similar Bond - Bond girl relationship, but I'd say it's much better handled.

    Also the Liparus climax goes on and on and on. Gilbert gave us better finales in YOLT and MR.

    I like this one, though I'm not its biggest defender.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,999
    TSWLM just missed the Top 10 by ranking #11 for me. I can rarely recall the bigger negatives from this one off the top of my head because the good within it is so incredible. I think it gets to a point where there are 10-15 installments I simply love so much that they can rank just about anywhere on any given day.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,546
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    What takes this down a bit, is the robotic performance Barbara Bach gives, or maybe she was instructed to do so, whatever the reasons are, it's so-so acting for a potentially great character. Rog is too smug to her too, except for that scene in which he admits to have killed her boyfriend. I wish there was a scene in which her competence got more highlighted.

    Among other moments, she basically beats Bond to the microfilm, which is more of a victory than Nomi ever got in NTTD!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,635
    The entire PTS, Egypt section and Lotus scenes are enough to make me put this at 4th place! Then you have great henchpeople in Jaws, Sandor and Naomi. Villain sets are amazing. Gadgets are sparse - feels like the right amount there. Lots of British references and naval goodness. Commander Bond saves the day, Spy saves the '70s, Cubby saves the crew's hungry tummies!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 16,546
    Yeah Spy does kind of redeem the 70s for Bond, up to that point it was all getting a bit weak. I'd say it kind of saved, certainly re-invigorated the whole Bond series, which before this was in a bit of a Hamilton slump.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 29 Posts: 3,799
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    What takes this down a bit, is the robotic performance Barbara Bach gives, or maybe she was instructed to do so, whatever the reasons are, it's so-so acting for a potentially great character. Rog is too smug to her too, except for that scene in which he admits to have killed her boyfriend. I wish there was a scene in which her competence got more highlighted.

    Among other moments, she basically beats Bond to the microfilm, which is more of a victory than Nomi ever got in NTTD!

    What other moments? That's what she only did (and it's mostly by luck or chance even), apart from that, I couldn't think of any, she's mostly a damsel in distress and relying on Bond.

    I get Nomi, she's there to help Bond, so, she's really not there to overshadow Bond, although she have some tough moments (mostly the scene in the lab and the Cuban shoot out where she's the one who had got Obruchev), I doubt Anya could do what Nomi had done (mostly the flying kicks and some shooting skills that Nomi had shown throughout the film).

    Anya was there to challenge Bond, but she failed in that aspect, she's definitely a second fiddle to him, and to think she had the Siberian Survival Course and other things laid out in her CV which at the end didn't turned out to be true (because we didn't see it).

    The real thing about Anya was about her dead boyfriend and her quest for revenge regarding it, that's her main dish, her KGB standing was mostly just a validation to say that she's a Russian to act as a foil for Bond, that's why like what I'm always saying, it would've been more better if she's a Tatiana Romanova type of character instead, the writers put too much on the table that they couldn't eat it all (they've gave Anya too much of a tough and high background in being a KGB agent but none of it was ever proved in the film).
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,183
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    What takes this down a bit, is the robotic performance Barbara Bach gives, or maybe she was instructed to do so, whatever the reasons are, it's so-so acting for a potentially great character. Rog is too smug to her too, except for that scene in which he admits to have killed her boyfriend. I wish there was a scene in which her competence got more highlighted.

    Among other moments, she basically beats Bond to the microfilm, which is more of a victory than Nomi ever got in NTTD!

    True, though Bond did check the microfilm on the boat and already knew there was nothing on it. Still though, I suppose she did outsmart him since he looked quite surprised when he passed out.

    In any case, I still feel her performance is a bit lifeless. Now I'm big giallo fan and I've seen her in a few of those. While these roles were definitely less-demanding, she did fair better in them. Which makes me wonder if she was asked to portray Anya with as little emotion as possible...
  • edited August 29 Posts: 4,258
    To be honest, even with the idea that Bond has to rescue her by the end, I find Anya a much more compelling character than Nomi. I think she's far more interesting than Wai Lin and Jinx as well, and the relationship between her and Bond is one I actually buy (I never got the sense Bond and Wai Lin had much of a romantic connection even though the film was trying to hammer it in for some reason).

    I think it says a lot about the concept and the writing. It's not perfect, but no film is anyway. Bach wasn't going to win an Oscar for her performance, but I find it works and it's far from the worst Bond girl performance I've seen (I find Lois Chiles much more wooden in MR, and Goodhead is a less interesting Bond girl).
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 29 Posts: 3,799
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be honest, even with the idea that Bond has to rescue her by the end, I find Anya a much more compelling character than Nomi. I think she's far more interesting than Wai Lin and Jinx as well, and the relationship between her and Bond is one I actually buy (I never got the sense Bond and Wai Lin had much of a romantic connection even though the film was trying to hammer it in for some reason).

    I think it says a lot about the concept and the writing. It's not perfect, but no film is anyway. Bach wasn't going to win an Oscar for her performance, but I find it works and it's far from the worst Bond girl performance I've seen (I find Lois Chiles much more wooden in MR, and Goodhead is a less interesting Bond girl).

    Like what I've said the thing that makes her character interesting is the fact that her boyfriend was killed and how she would handle it and confront it, and how Bond would earn that so called 'forgiveness' from her, I think that adds to their partnership.

    But she's not going to be Bond's equal, I even think that Natalya could even outsmart Anya in some occasions (she knows survival way better than Anya and much more resourceful), Anya was not resourceful or tough enough, she's just not tough as some make her out to be.

    Nomi is tougher than Anya, but again, I do understand that the more tougher Bond Girls tend to be less interesting because all they have is toughness and being Bond's equal, but not in dynamic, again like Wai Lin, Jinx and Holly Goodhead, with the possible exception of Tracy who was both a tough Bond Girl and at the same time, an interesting character.

    That's fine, the case that we're just making here is the fact Anya was not a tough Bond Girl, she's not Bond's equal, we're just debunking it, her main role was to confront Bond as a killer of her boyfriend and how it would have a resolution by the end.
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    What takes this down a bit, is the robotic performance Barbara Bach gives, or maybe she was instructed to do so, whatever the reasons are, it's so-so acting for a potentially great character. Rog is too smug to her too, except for that scene in which he admits to have killed her boyfriend. I wish there was a scene in which her competence got more highlighted.

    Among other moments, she basically beats Bond to the microfilm, which is more of a victory than Nomi ever got in NTTD!

    True, though Bond did check the microfilm on the boat and already knew there was nothing on it. Still though, I suppose she did outsmart him since he looked quite surprised when he passed out.

    In any case, I still feel her performance is a bit lifeless. Now I'm big giallo fan and I've seen her in a few of those. While these roles were definitely less-demanding, she did fair better in them. Which makes me wonder if she was asked to portray Anya with as little emotion as possible...

    Personally, I think she didn't outsmarted Bond, it's more of a luck or chance at her part, Bond was just happened to be smitten by her seduction and never saw it coming, well as a result of his smugness, but if it happened to be a different person, he wouldn't fall into that trap.

    The part of Anya was a demanding one, really, something that could only work for an actress with some experience, the nailing of the Russian accent is very hard to play already, and the character was meant to be complex, someone with an inner grit inside of her because she's seeking revenge, just like Melina or Camille, something like that, and Barbara Bach just didn't have the chops to pull that off, as you've said those roles in the Giallo films were less demanding.

    She's not asked to play that way, actually Barbara Bach just auditioned for a minor role, but Cubby had chosen her because she have the looks (she's beautiful) and more affordable, financially, Catherine Deneuve wanted to play the part.

    Barbara Bach just played it that way, she failed to portray the emotions needed to made the character's perspective convincing to the audiences.

    In terms of acting, I think both Claudine Auger and George Lazenby both acted better than Bach, personally (at least both have showed emotions, facial expressions,and realistic reactions and have more natural acting), Bach was just miscast.

    And personally too, I don't even think she had chemistry with Roger Moore, well I could argue most Bond Girl actresses had no chemistry with Moore (possibly due to age gap) maybe except Maud Adams, or maybe Britt Ekland, at least a little bit, Roger Moore had way better going on with Swedish women ;) in fact his wife, Kristina Tholstrup is a Swede.
  • edited August 29 Posts: 4,258
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be honest, even with the idea that Bond has to rescue her by the end, I find Anya a much more compelling character than Nomi. I think she's far more interesting than Wai Lin and Jinx as well, and the relationship between her and Bond is one I actually buy (I never got the sense Bond and Wai Lin had much of a romantic connection even though the film was trying to hammer it in for some reason).

    I think it says a lot about the concept and the writing. It's not perfect, but no film is anyway. Bach wasn't going to win an Oscar for her performance, but I find it works and it's far from the worst Bond girl performance I've seen (I find Lois Chiles much more wooden in MR, and Goodhead is a less interesting Bond girl).

    Like what I've said the thing that makes her character interesting is the fact that her boyfriend was killed and how she would handle it and confront it, and how Bond would earn that so called 'forgiveness' from her, I think that adds to their partnership.

    But she's not going to be Bond's equal, I even think that Natalya could even outsmart Anya in some occasions (she knows survival way better than Anya and much more resourceful), Anya was not resourceful or tough enough, she's just not tough at some make her out to be.

    Nomi is tougher than Anya, but again, I do understand that the more tougher Bond Girls tend to be less interesting because all they have is toughness and being Bond's equal, but not in dynamic, again like Wai Lin, Jinx and Holly Goodhead.

    That's fine, the case that we're just making here is the fact Anya was not a tough Bond Girl, she's not Bond's equal, we're just debunking it, her main role was to confront Bond as a killer of her boyfriend and how it would have a resolution by the end.

    Yeah, to be honest I don't really care how much of 'Bond's equal' she is in practice. She outsmarts Bond once, and while not perfect it's good enough to establish that she's a cunning agent. I guess she also manages to operate the Lotus' system and she says she stole the blueprints. I also like the scene where she's able to 'read' Bond/knows about his background. She's also able to keep up with Bond when he follows Jaws, and she even uses the truck to get them away. Again, it's not necessarily Bond's equal stuff, but we get a sense that she's relatively capable as an agent, at least at those points.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 29 Posts: 3,799
    007HallY wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be honest, even with the idea that Bond has to rescue her by the end, I find Anya a much more compelling character than Nomi. I think she's far more interesting than Wai Lin and Jinx as well, and the relationship between her and Bond is one I actually buy (I never got the sense Bond and Wai Lin had much of a romantic connection even though the film was trying to hammer it in for some reason).

    I think it says a lot about the concept and the writing. It's not perfect, but no film is anyway. Bach wasn't going to win an Oscar for her performance, but I find it works and it's far from the worst Bond girl performance I've seen (I find Lois Chiles much more wooden in MR, and Goodhead is a less interesting Bond girl).

    Like what I've said the thing that makes her character interesting is the fact that her boyfriend was killed and how she would handle it and confront it, and how Bond would earn that so called 'forgiveness' from her, I think that adds to their partnership.

    But she's not going to be Bond's equal, I even think that Natalya could even outsmart Anya in some occasions (she knows survival way better than Anya and much more resourceful), Anya was not resourceful or tough enough, she's just not tough at some make her out to be.

    Nomi is tougher than Anya, but again, I do understand that the more tougher Bond Girls tend to be less interesting because all they have is toughness and being Bond's equal, but not in dynamic, again like Wai Lin, Jinx and Holly Goodhead.

    That's fine, the case that we're just making here is the fact Anya was not a tough Bond Girl, she's not Bond's equal, we're just debunking it, her main role was to confront Bond as a killer of her boyfriend and how it would have a resolution by the end.

    Yeah, to be honest I don't really care how much of 'Bond's equal' she is in practice. She outsmarts Bond once, and while not perfect it's good enough to establish that she's a cunning agent. I guess she also manages to operate the Lotus' system and she says she stole the blueprints. I also like the scene where she's able to 'read' Bond/knows about his background. She's also able to keep up with Bond when he follows Jaws, and she even uses the truck to get them away. Again, it's not necessarily Bond's equal stuff, but we get a sense that she's relatively capable as an agent, at least at those points.

    Yes, but the thing is, the film built her up so much that her background and her status were quite high for what she had done: she had completed a Siberian Survival Course, a high ranking military officer in KGB, and even said that the "best KGB agent that Russia could offer", that got my expectations high for her, but while she did okay (the reading of Bond's background is something that's natural for an agent, even Bond is reviewing some of his contacts and knows about Anya as much as Anya knows Bond), the stealing of the blueprints of the Lotus is a bit of a plot hole especially if the car was just newly made (possibly made in England and was shipped to Sardinia) so I don't know how she could steal the blueprint, she's with Bond in Sardinia (I will check it when I watch the film again, maybe some scene will help explain things), again, back to the main topic, while she did okay, given her background and how she's introduced and built up as a character, that's not enough, what she had done could be done by other (normal) Bond Girls too, she didn't do things that would at least give credibility to her background (especially in a Military one), those skills that not any non trained individuals could do like physical skills for example (those of what Wai Lin, Holly Goodhead and Paloma could do), she doesn't have any of that.

    I get that she's capable, but her capability was almost on the same level as those other normal Bond Girls (Kara Milovy, a Cellist, could even pilot a plane, who knows she could do that), given her background, it's just a bit disappointing to me that she ended up like that, I was expecting more from her.

    Xenia Onatopp was Anya should've been really, in terms of background, status, and job, at least the closest, like Anya, she's a KGB well trained Military Agent, but she got a complete skill set.

    That's why she's not convincing to me as well trained KGB agent, and she would've been better if she's written a la Tatiana Romanova type of character.
  • Posts: 4,258
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    To be honest, even with the idea that Bond has to rescue her by the end, I find Anya a much more compelling character than Nomi. I think she's far more interesting than Wai Lin and Jinx as well, and the relationship between her and Bond is one I actually buy (I never got the sense Bond and Wai Lin had much of a romantic connection even though the film was trying to hammer it in for some reason).

    I think it says a lot about the concept and the writing. It's not perfect, but no film is anyway. Bach wasn't going to win an Oscar for her performance, but I find it works and it's far from the worst Bond girl performance I've seen (I find Lois Chiles much more wooden in MR, and Goodhead is a less interesting Bond girl).

    Like what I've said the thing that makes her character interesting is the fact that her boyfriend was killed and how she would handle it and confront it, and how Bond would earn that so called 'forgiveness' from her, I think that adds to their partnership.

    But she's not going to be Bond's equal, I even think that Natalya could even outsmart Anya in some occasions (she knows survival way better than Anya and much more resourceful), Anya was not resourceful or tough enough, she's just not tough at some make her out to be.

    Nomi is tougher than Anya, but again, I do understand that the more tougher Bond Girls tend to be less interesting because all they have is toughness and being Bond's equal, but not in dynamic, again like Wai Lin, Jinx and Holly Goodhead.

    That's fine, the case that we're just making here is the fact Anya was not a tough Bond Girl, she's not Bond's equal, we're just debunking it, her main role was to confront Bond as a killer of her boyfriend and how it would have a resolution by the end.

    Yeah, to be honest I don't really care how much of 'Bond's equal' she is in practice. She outsmarts Bond once, and while not perfect it's good enough to establish that she's a cunning agent. I guess she also manages to operate the Lotus' system and she says she stole the blueprints. I also like the scene where she's able to 'read' Bond/knows about his background. She's also able to keep up with Bond when he follows Jaws, and she even uses the truck to get them away. Again, it's not necessarily Bond's equal stuff, but we get a sense that she's relatively capable as an agent, at least at those points.

    Yes, but the thing is, the film built her up so much that her background and her status were quite high for what she had done: she had completed a Siberian Survival Course, a high ranking military officer in KGB, and even said that the "best KGB agent that Russia could offer", that got my expectations high for her, but while she did okay (the reading of Bond's background is something that's natural for an agent, even Bond is reviewing some of his contacts and knows about Anya as much as Anya knows Bond), the stealing of the blueprints of the Lotus is a bit of a plot hole especially if the car was just newly made (possibly made in England and was shipped to Sardinia) so I don't know how she could steal the blueprint, she's with Bond in Sardinia (I will check it when I watch the film again, maybe some scene will help explain things), again, back to the main topic, while she did okay, given her background and how she's introduced and built up as a character, that's not enough, what she had done could be done by other (normal) Bond Girls too, she didn't do things that would at least give credibility to her background (especially in a Military one), those skills that not any non trained individuals could do like physical skills for example (those of what Wai Lin, Holly Goodhead and Paloma could do), she doesn't have any of that.

    I get that she's capable, but her capability was almost on the same level as those other normal Bond Girls (Kara Milovy, a Cellist, could even pilot a plane, who knows she could do that), given her background, it's just a bit disappointing to me that she ended up like that, I was expecting more from her.

    Xenia Onatopp was Anya should've been really, in terms of background, status, and job, at least the closest, like Anya, she's a KGB well trained Military Agent, but she got a complete skill set.

    That's why she's not convincing to me as well trained KGB agent, and she would've been better if she's written a la Tatiana Romanova type of character.

    I think if she'd have been more of a Tatiana Romanova you'd miss that element that they're in the same line of work. The 'you know as well as I do that it was either him or me' from Bond about killing her boyfriend would fall flat. Anyway, she's far more cunning and savvy than Tatiana is.

    The car blueprint plot hole is pretty negligible, and very much in the realm of Bond suspension of disbelief (worth saying Anya looks a bit nervous when they go into the water, even though she presumably would have known the car was able to become aquatic. But again, it really doesn't matter). It's the same with Kara being able to fly a plane! In fact the latter is more in the realm of absolute nonsense. Either way it's not the sort of thing many would think about in the moment, and I'm not sure if it's worth thinking about too much in hindsight.

    It's not an unfair criticism that she could have showcased a bit more of her secret agent skills (maybe a judo chop or two), but at the same time I don't think it's something that completely undoes the character. For me, I buy her when she's able to match Bond 'reading' her, when she's able to trick him into getting the microfilm, follow up leads pretty much the same time as him etc. Her story is compelling and I think Moore and Bach have chemistry. Not a perfect character, but a really interesting and unique one.
  • Vinther1991Vinther1991 Denmark
    Posts: 64
    I have TSWLM at #11. It is a pretty fun movie with a good pace, impressive sets and beautiful cinematography. I also think Anya is a solid character, and the criticism of Bach's performance is a bit exaggerated. Jaws is great and iconic, but like the rest of the film, a little too cartoonish. I really enjoy most of the film until the third act. The climax is just not very exciting at the hangar, it is just guys throwing grenades at each other, in what could have been a Michael Bay sequence. Then the second setpiece at Atlantis is also nothing special. Stromberg is also an underwhelming villain, a Blofeld copy. Overall a fun ride, with some bumps. I put it as my favorite Roger Moore film, but it isn't that far ahead of LALD or FYEO.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,062
    TSWLM is my No.15, smack in the middle of the Moore films. Below FYEO, MR and LALD, but well above TSLM, OP and AVTAK (20, 22 and 23 respectively). As I probably wrote before, it used to compete for the top spot (among the Moore films only, of course) with FYEO, but in the meantime I think it aged badly and more of its deficits keep bothering me. Barbara Bach's non-acting is one of them, but I also increasingly find that Curd Jürgens more or less phoned in his performance. Maybe his character was written like that, but he can (could) do a lot better. Never really liked the Jaws character, neither here nor in MR - but in the latter's overall more tongue-in-cheek environment he works better. The tanker is great, but Atlantis (the outside view) was not Ken Adam's finest hour...at least as it comes out on screen. The submarine Lotus may have been a thrill at first, but in the meantime I find it just silly. Add to that the fish that Bond throws out of the car window...how did it get inside in the first place? All in all, rather an uneven affair that doesn't really decide if it should remain on a more serious track or end up a a pure comedy. The only thing that stands out (relatively speaking) is Carly Simon's (or rather, Marvin Hamlisch and Carole Bayer Sager's) title song. A so-so Bond adventure, which is why it ends up in the middle tier of my list.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 30 Posts: 16,546
    Yeah the model of Atlantis has never worked for me, either. And I'd probably partially blame that on Ken Adam, much that I love him: there's almost nothing in the way of a visual cue to its design to tell you how big it's supposed to be, especially as it's in the middle of the sea next to nothing at all. It's such an original design that there's nothing recognisable about it which allows you to get your eye in and scale it against so it ends up just looking like a model which is as big as the model was. The tanker is more successful, partially because we know how big a tanker is supposed to be.

    The most successful shot of Atlantis for me is that handheld one we get as Bond and Anya approach it by speedboat and some mad person has painstakingly cut out and manually tracked a photo of it onto the bobbing horizon frame by frame: it's a brilliant shot and it must have driven them mad. And because we're seeing it from Bond's point of view with actual people in shot it's the only time we get a sense of the scale of the thing. Although if anything it actually makes it too big as it's sitting on the horizon which is too far away, so almost looks a mile high, but there's not much else they could do.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 9,062
    @GoldenGun, I have a suggestion/request if you find the time: Could you please update your initial post to include the ranking as a list including all the movies we've had so far...and add the remaining ones once you disclosed them? It would simplify comparison rather than having to scroll through the 19 thread pages so far... Thank you, and no hard feelings if you don't feel like doing this!
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    edited August 30 Posts: 7,183
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    @GoldenGun, I have a suggestion/request if you find the time: Could you please update your initial post to include the ranking as a list including all the movies we've had so far...and add the remaining ones once you disclosed them? It would simplify comparison rather than having to scroll through the 19 thread pages so far... Thank you, and no hard feelings if you don't feel like doing this!

    I will, don't worry. I'm about to reveal out number 6, and then I'll update the first page :)
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 7,183
    No need to say goodbye to another Bond actor just yet, because this one still has a few to spare. At #6, we have:

    DR. NO (1962)
    Directed by Terence Young

    4ee7c612f84508ee7eb5e283ce6e2370933fe3dcfe0fded46a2c3f643734ff23.jpg

    "I'm flattered."

    The highest-ranked entry that did not receive a single top spot finish, DN's highest placements were one 2nd, three 3rd, two 4th and two 5th places.

    Additionally, another seven top 10's were awarded to it, and five more members ranked it 11th or 12th.

    So that means that only two participants ranked DN outside the top half. One of those just ended inside the top 20, at 20th. The other one was a surprising bottom finish.

    So even though DN received one bottom finish and no top finish, it still ended up 6th overall, because almost everyone ranked it in their top half.

    In total DN received 152 points.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,999
    I'm one of those #3 spot voters. For the very first installment of a series that is still pressing on over 60 years later, it's got at all: the introduction of some iconic elements, an ultra cool Sean Connery, almost one location exclusively used throughout that's simultaneously packed with flavor and local culture, a ton of spy and investigative work, a couple bits of outstanding action and suspense, and just enough magical realism to make it feel otherworldly without ever exiting reality. It'll always be one of my favorites of the series and it'd take one stellar new installment to knock it out of my Top 3.
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