"You missed Mister Bond!"..."Did I?"...The Missed Opportunities of Goldeneye

thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
edited February 16 in Bond Movies Posts: 4,857
After a few discussion in a few threads I sensed there would be some good dialogue about missed opportunities of the Bond films.

Maybe it was an actor who played a villain in a lesser movie. I am looking at Christopher Lee turning up in TMWTGG, he found himself in a lesser known Bond movie and for many is the highlight, imagine if he had starred in a movie that didn't have a rushed production. Or Christopher Walken, a wonderful actor who was cast as the main villain in a movie that doesn't crack the top ten in most lists.

Maybe it was a director who should have explored more about the script or characters? The rushed production of TND scattered many missed opportunities and the result was a more interesting movie that didn't show on the screen.

Maybe it was an actor who created such a memorable role that we wish they got more screen time. Ana de Armas in NTTD fits this bill, with many wishing she was in the film for longer. Or how about Naomi in Spy who got precious little screen time and may have been able to add something to the film.

This is a free flow discussion thread about the things you think are classified as a missed opportunity! Give us things in the series that you think we missed and that we sadly missed.

As Hugo Drax stated "You missed Mister Bond!" Lets share those missed opportunities!
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Comments

  • Posts: 1,406
    A missed opportunity was leaving out some of the novel's best material in Live and Let Die and later using it in LTK. Even then LTK didn't go where Fleming did with respect to Felix.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,857
    That's a good one! I agree, notice how the movie makers added a wife to add more emotion but I am not sure that it really lands as her time on the screen was small and not enough to make an impact. It might have been better to keep it to Felix getting injured. Especially when you consider the brutal death of Stella and her implied rape before the death.

    @CrabKey Can you think of a better movie for Felix's injury and attack be better used?
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,367
    Regarding Felix Leiter, it's still a shame that he didn't appeared in A View To A Kill, and instead what we've got was such a forgettable, throw away character in Chuck Lee.

    My other missed opportunities:

    1. My main one, of course was undermining the character of Anya Amasova (Triple X) in The Spy Who Loved Me, she's made out to be Bond's Russian Equivalent, his equal in the premise, but other than her driving that van in Egypt, she did nothing, all the time, she's just being a damsel in distress, I don't see the upmanship between her and Bond because most of the time, it's Bond who always overshadow or upstage her.
    Her background was very far from how I've seen it in the film (her Siberian Training Course and her Military Background), but we've never saw her skills or what she can do (she had the chance to show this in the train scene with Jaws, but instead, what she did was to slap him with a hanger and Jaws knocked her unconsciously fast, and there's Bond who's in rescue).
    Then her rivalry with Bond was also faded in the middle act of the film when she's got jealous of Naomi (Caroline Munro), because Bond was smitten by her.
    I think they've wrote her character too much, to the point of being pretentious of more than what the film could chew.
    The only interesting part of her was her vendetta for killing her lover (that in my opinion was also not written that well).

    2. My second (main) one, of course was not continuing the revenge storyline of On Her Majesty's Secret Service, I wished we got Bond killing Blofeld and Irma Bunt to avenge Tracy's death once and for all, sure, there's Lazenby quitting (although not his fault, but by his agent and the too demanding contract), but if the Producers are really pretending that Bond was the same guy, they should've done this even with a different actor, and instead, what we've got was that comical, silly and nonsense Pre-Title Sequence in For Your Eyes Only, and that still remains my least favorite PTS.

    That's mine for now.
  • Posts: 1,406
    @SIS_HQ Although the bald guy in the wheelchair is not named in FYEO, who he is supposed to be is unmistakable. This is a PTS that is so wrong-headed that it is simply confounding. The "Where's Blofeld?" nonsense in DAF was bad enough, but FYEO makes a mockery of Tracy's death by turning Blofeld into a joke.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,857
    I'm not so sure about the Anya missed opportunity. I would think reality would be severely strained if she held her own against Jaws. She has a few moments to shine, the drugging of Bond on the boat, though it's later discovered that the microfilm is useless. She nails a couple of the guards on the dock of the tanker. But admittedly not nearly enough to suggest she is Bond's equal.

    At least her motivation for wanting to one up Bond is solid, unlike Ms Goodhead in the next film. Her being Russian is enough reason for her to want to best Bond. Barbara's limited acting ability makes the whole lighter reveal and subsequent references to her threat to kill Bond lack punch. Imagine if someone like Carey Lowell or even Sophie Marceau we might believe the threat and the tension might be more palpable. In this case the tension is wrung out with wooden delivery and a rather wishy washy feeling to the whole affair.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,367
    thedove wrote: »
    I'm not so sure about the Anya missed opportunity. I would think reality would be severely strained if she held her own against Jaws. She has a few moments to shine, the drugging of Bond on the boat, though it's later discovered that the microfilm is useless. She nails a couple of the guards on the dock of the tanker. But admittedly not nearly enough to suggest she is Bond's equal.

    I do understand, but again, her background like that Siberian Training Course and her Military Background (she's a Military Officer, a Major, in fact), more higher than Wai Lin who's a Colonel, but Wai Lin proved her background by showing her full capabilities as an agent, something that I've never seen Anya did.

    For such a highly trained Russian Military Agent, she did nothing, I would've accept Anya more if she's not made out to be such a highly trained Military Assassin almost on Bond's par (think of Tatiana Romanova for example).

    Sure there's that nailing on that Tanker Guards, but for a Military Agent with a tough background, it's not enough.

    I just expect Anya to do something more.

    That's why her fighting Jaws in the train would've proved that, it's the credibility, think of Christmas Jones, for example.

    Yes, I liked the Russian-British rivalry and the tension that goes around it if Anya was just proved to be also capable that's worthy of that rivalry, again, look at Bond and Wai Lin, the rivalry worked out between them because Wai Lin cannot be underestimated, she's almost on Bond's par in skills.

    And for the majority of the film, Anya was just on Bond's side, I've never saw her working on her own (as in independent), she's mostly depending on Bond.

    And again, the supposed rivalry between Anya and Bond have dried out once Naomi (Stromberg's Secretary) was introduced and Bond was clearly smitten by her sexiness, this where Anya became jealous, like why Anya became jealous of Naomi? (Does this means, she's now in love with Bond? Then the tension was no longer there), the tension was only revived by the vendetta of Anya against Bond (but no longer professional, more personal).

    I agree about the wooden delivery too.
    CrabKey wrote: »
    @SIS_HQ Although the bald guy in the wheelchair is not named in FYEO, who he is supposed to be is unmistakable. This is a PTS that is so wrong-headed that it is simply confounding. The "Where's Blofeld?" nonsense in DAF was bad enough, but FYEO makes a mockery of Tracy's death by turning Blofeld into a joke.

    Agreed, it's one of the reasons why I really disliked that PTS, I may also add that's also out of place in the film and served no purpose other than to explain it in technicality that it's meant to introduce a new Bond actor and reject McClory by dumping Blofeld, the revenge angle was really not the intention (and man, it took how many films before this happened 😅).
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Is that we didn't get a third Timothy Dalton movie
  • Posts: 14,745
    It might come off as controversial as lots of people here want Bond to return to standalone movies, but I think one great missed opportunity was not to give the Brosnan era more continuity AND a recurring adversary. The tenure lacked focus after GE and the series would have benefitted from a new Nemesis. Say make Trevelyan the second in command of the Janus Syndicate (two faces, two people in charge) and have Janus return in TWINE. Because of 006, they know a lot about the inner works of MI6, making them all the more dangerous.
  • TheSkyfallen06TheSkyfallen06 Buenos Aires, Argentina.
    Posts: 966
    Ludovico wrote: »
    It might come off as controversial as lots of people here want Bond to return to standalone movies, but I think one great missed opportunity was not to give the Brosnan era more continuity AND a recurring adversary. The tenure lacked focus after GE and the series would have benefitted from a new Nemesis. Say make Trevelyan the second in command of the Janus Syndicate (two faces, two people in charge) and have Janus return in TWINE. Because of 006, they know a lot about the inner works of MI6, making them all the more dangerous.

    Agreed, i feel like if The World is Not Enough was (betterly) made after Goldeneye (also meaning Tomorrow Never Dies wouldn't exist, sorry) there would have a potential to make a great third entry, but that's just me though.
  • Posts: 6,501
    Having SP end in the desert crater, with no brofeld nonesense. And Bond escaping in the Rolls.
  • SeanoSeano Minnesota. No, it's not always cold.
    Posts: 39
    Had they been planning it out from the beginning, a few simple changes to QOS could have made what happened later somewhat less jarring. For instance, replace White in the Bregenz sequence with He Who Will Become Blofeld, making him the savvy one who doesn't flee when Bond interrupts their meeting. Then, show Blofeld and Patrice being the ones who track down Greene in the desert and kill him, thereby establishing Patrice as a link between Blofeld and Silva. You could even have Patrice call Blofeld "Number One" in this scene, too, to indicate that we're now dealing with SPECTRE instead of Quantum.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,857
    Ludovico wrote: »
    It might come off as controversial as lots of people here want Bond to return to standalone movies, but I think one great missed opportunity was not to give the Brosnan era more continuity AND a recurring adversary. The tenure lacked focus after GE and the series would have benefitted from a new Nemesis. Say make Trevelyan the second in command of the Janus Syndicate (two faces, two people in charge) and have Janus return in TWINE. Because of 006, they know a lot about the inner works of MI6, making them all the more dangerous.

    I am digging that! Brosnan got robbed from any story arc. To have him battle a similar foe for the 4 movies or at least 3 of the movies would have been nice. It certainly pumps up the personal nature. However it would diffuse Electra and Renard as they become lackeys for the organization. Unless one of them was with Alec as the other face. Might make sense for Electra to be the second face. Both have a grip with England. Wow I think improves TWINE.
  • •Not finding an actor for Blofeld who matched up with the portrayal found in FRWL/TB.
    •Not getting Diamonds are Forever with Lazenby.
    •Not giving Blofeld a proper send off.
    •Stuffing TMWTGG with too many unnecessary plot lines.
    •Not having Dalton come in a film earlier for AVTAK.
    •Not giving Brosnan a more “Flemingesque” Film.

    And finally, what may be the most controversial;

    •Bringing Craig back for Bond 25. I would’ve much rather we got a new actor so that way we would already be into the next actors tenure. P.S. I say that as somebody who doesn’t mind NTTD.


  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,857
    I'm curious what you consider unnecessary plot lines for TMWTGG? No solar agitator? Or no Anders trying to get Scaramanga killed by Bond?

    I often wonder how AVTAK would have been improved by a Dalton/Walken face off. Surely it would have been fantastic to see these two fine actors play off each other. It would rival Davi for strongest antagonist from the Dalton era.
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 1,950
    thedove wrote: »
    I'm curious what you consider unnecessary plot lines for TMWTGG? No solar agitator? Or no Anders trying to get Scaramanga killed by Bond?

    I often wonder how AVTAK would have been improved by a Dalton/Walken face off. Surely it would have been fantastic to see these two fine actors play off each other. It would rival Davi for strongest antagonist from the Dalton era.

    I like the Andrea Anders subplot, despite its many shortcomings. But what I dislike the Solex Agitator stuff. It’s completely unnecessary imo, and I also don’t really like the idea of giving Scaramanga a private island with a giant laser gun. I thought the film could’ve just been a more smaller scale adventure, much like LALD was before.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 4,857
    The Solex and the whole energy crisis does date the film terribly. Especially since we are in the same spot now with renewables. I guess they chose a current day headline and it bit them.

    It really didn't need the solex plot, however it gave Scaramanga the golden gun. Though it's a cliche I think.

    There are not many Bond films where I would ask for a remake, but Golden Gun is one. There is a better film in there somewhere. The rush to cash in on LALD I think hurt the film and the extra year likely would have done wonders for the film and the script.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,367
    thedove wrote: »
    The Solex and the whole energy crisis does date the film terribly. Especially since we are in the same spot now with renewables. I guess they chose a current day headline and it bit them.

    It really didn't need the solex plot, however it gave Scaramanga the golden gun. Though it's a cliche I think.

    There are not many Bond films where I would ask for a remake, but Golden Gun is one. There is a better film in there somewhere. The rush to cash in on LALD I think hurt the film and the extra year likely would have done wonders for the film and the script.

    I think the book had an interesting plot that I wished the film just adapted instead.
    More believable and more realistic than what we've got in the film.

    So, if they're going to remake the film, just make it more closer to the book's plot instead.
  • Posts: 14,745
    thedove wrote: »
    Ludovico wrote: »
    It might come off as controversial as lots of people here want Bond to return to standalone movies, but I think one great missed opportunity was not to give the Brosnan era more continuity AND a recurring adversary. The tenure lacked focus after GE and the series would have benefitted from a new Nemesis. Say make Trevelyan the second in command of the Janus Syndicate (two faces, two people in charge) and have Janus return in TWINE. Because of 006, they know a lot about the inner works of MI6, making them all the more dangerous.

    I am digging that! Brosnan got robbed from any story arc. To have him battle a similar foe for the 4 movies or at least 3 of the movies would have been nice. It certainly pumps up the personal nature. However it would diffuse Electra and Renard as they become lackeys for the organization. Unless one of them was with Alec as the other face. Might make sense for Electra to be the second face. Both have a grip with England. Wow I think improves TWINE.

    I'm not a big fan of Elektra, at least as Apted stated she was the main villain. I don't see her as a female Blofeld, that's for sure. I could have seen Renard employed by the Janus Syndicate, but as a bit of a loose cannon. In my head cannon, TWINE is how it is in its broadlines, but with the Janus Syndicate and someone ordering Renard. I always imagined Ian McKellen playing a shadowy figure in both GE and TWINE, someone who turned Trevelyan to the dark side and controlled Renard. And then have this shadowy enemy fights Bond in Brosnan's fourth film, which would not be DAD, but something like "Death Can Wait" or "The Property of a Lady ".
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 985
    I think there have been two big missed opportunities in the Bond movie series.

    The first was not filming OHMSS after Thunderball, and missing the opportunity to have a proper cinematic 'Blofeld Trilogy' as Fleming wrote it. I think Fleming's Bond was best portrayed in the first four films, where the novels were adapted with care. I'd have loved that style to have carried on for another three films, before we got to the 'silly seventies' era, (which I also like, don't get me wrong).
    Ironically, the OHMSS we did get, was one of the most faithful Bond films to the book. It was unfortunate it was preceded by a very loose adaptation book that follows it, if you know what I mean.

    The second missed opportunity was not making 'thrills and spills' stand-alone Bond adventures after Skyfall. Instead, they made two more 'soap opera' films. CR/QoS/SF worked fantastic as a 'Bond begins' trilogy, and from there, they could have gone full tilt with a completely clean slate of fresh adventures for a new actor (or even Craig). The ending was set up perfect, we were virtually back in Dr No territory. But they carried on with soap opera Bond, and look what a mess we ended up with!

  • Posts: 2,518
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    The Solex and the whole energy crisis does date the film terribly. Especially since we are in the same spot now with renewables. I guess they chose a current day headline and it bit them.

    It really didn't need the solex plot, however it gave Scaramanga the golden gun. Though it's a cliche I think.

    There are not many Bond films where I would ask for a remake, but Golden Gun is one. There is a better film in there somewhere. The rush to cash in on LALD I think hurt the film and the extra year likely would have done wonders for the film and the script.

    I think the book had an interesting plot that I wished the film just adapted instead.
    More believable and more realistic than what we've got in the film.

    So, if they're going to remake the film, just make it more closer to the book's plot instead.

    I do find it funny how in the film even Scaramanga admits he has no idea how the Solex actually works. He seems more interested in using it for his laser gun thingy (which isn't even gold.... how he can he truly be 'the man with the golden gun' now? So stupid...). It's a pretty lame scheme really.

    I think the biggest missed opportunities with TMWTGG were a) them supposedly sidelining a lot of stuff during the script stage that made Scaramanga out to be more Bond's equal, and b) in place of this not involving an actual assassination or something during the climax, which at least would have more tension.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,951
    007HallY wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    The Solex and the whole energy crisis does date the film terribly. Especially since we are in the same spot now with renewables. I guess they chose a current day headline and it bit them.

    It really didn't need the solex plot, however it gave Scaramanga the golden gun. Though it's a cliche I think.

    There are not many Bond films where I would ask for a remake, but Golden Gun is one. There is a better film in there somewhere. The rush to cash in on LALD I think hurt the film and the extra year likely would have done wonders for the film and the script.

    I think the book had an interesting plot that I wished the film just adapted instead.
    More believable and more realistic than what we've got in the film.

    So, if they're going to remake the film, just make it more closer to the book's plot instead.

    I do find it funny how in the film even Scaramanga admits he has no idea how the Solex actually works. He seems more interested in using it for his laser gun thingy (which isn't even gold.... how he can he truly be 'the man with the golden gun' now? So stupid...). It's a pretty lame scheme really.

    I think the biggest missed opportunities with TMWTGG were a) them supposedly sidelining a lot of stuff during the script stage that made Scaramanga out to be more Bond's equal, and b) in place of this not involving an actual assassination or something during the climax, which at least would have more tension.

    Proof that Richard Maibaum wasn’t always the best person to write Bond films. Controversial opinion I know. But his ego often got the better of him, and the way he talked down to the supposedly other EON family members. As much I wish that LALD was more faithful to the novel, I’m happy that Tom Mankiewicz went solo on it. Same in a similar way with Roald Dahl and others on YOLT and Christopher Wood with MR.
  • MalloryMallory Do mosquitoes have friends?
    Posts: 2,023
    All of Die Another Day and Spectre.

    So much potential in each utterly wasted.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,142
    As I believe @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 once said, using the line "He needed some space." after Bond ejected Drax in MR.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,367
    Deleted
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 2,518
    MaxCasino wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    The Solex and the whole energy crisis does date the film terribly. Especially since we are in the same spot now with renewables. I guess they chose a current day headline and it bit them.

    It really didn't need the solex plot, however it gave Scaramanga the golden gun. Though it's a cliche I think.

    There are not many Bond films where I would ask for a remake, but Golden Gun is one. There is a better film in there somewhere. The rush to cash in on LALD I think hurt the film and the extra year likely would have done wonders for the film and the script.

    I think the book had an interesting plot that I wished the film just adapted instead.
    More believable and more realistic than what we've got in the film.

    So, if they're going to remake the film, just make it more closer to the book's plot instead.

    I do find it funny how in the film even Scaramanga admits he has no idea how the Solex actually works. He seems more interested in using it for his laser gun thingy (which isn't even gold.... how he can he truly be 'the man with the golden gun' now? So stupid...). It's a pretty lame scheme really.

    I think the biggest missed opportunities with TMWTGG were a) them supposedly sidelining a lot of stuff during the script stage that made Scaramanga out to be more Bond's equal, and b) in place of this not involving an actual assassination or something during the climax, which at least would have more tension.

    Proof that Richard Maibaum wasn’t always the best person to write Bond films. Controversial opinion I know. But his ego often got the better of him, and the way he talked down to the supposedly other EON family members. As much I wish that LALD was more faithful to the novel, I’m happy that Tom Mankiewicz went solo on it.

    I would say Maibaum's contributions to some the great Bond films like DN, FRWL, and OHMSS are worth praising. But at the same time it's worth recognising that he wasn't the only writer on any of those scripts, and often the contributions of other lesser known writers went either sidelined or outright uncredited. From my understanding he certainly had a habit of talking down to others at EON quite publicly, which is pretty rich considering some of his more outlandish (ie. stupid) ideas would have made their way into Bond films without the producers overseeing things.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,367
    007HallY wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    The Solex and the whole energy crisis does date the film terribly. Especially since we are in the same spot now with renewables. I guess they chose a current day headline and it bit them.

    It really didn't need the solex plot, however it gave Scaramanga the golden gun. Though it's a cliche I think.

    There are not many Bond films where I would ask for a remake, but Golden Gun is one. There is a better film in there somewhere. The rush to cash in on LALD I think hurt the film and the extra year likely would have done wonders for the film and the script.

    I think the book had an interesting plot that I wished the film just adapted instead.
    More believable and more realistic than what we've got in the film.

    So, if they're going to remake the film, just make it more closer to the book's plot instead.

    I do find it funny how in the film even Scaramanga admits he has no idea how the Solex actually works. He seems more interested in using it for his laser gun thingy (which isn't even gold.... how he can he truly be 'the man with the golden gun' now? So stupid...). It's a pretty lame scheme really.

    I think the biggest missed opportunities with TMWTGG were a) them supposedly sidelining a lot of stuff during the script stage that made Scaramanga out to be more Bond's equal, and b) in place of this not involving an actual assassination or something during the climax, which at least would have more tension.

    Probably a controversial opinion, but even the plot of Scaramanga's plan for assassinating Bond wasn't that utilized and written well.

    I mean, what's the reason why he'd liked to assassinate Bond?
    From what he'd said, Scaramanga knew Bond was one of the best assassins in the world, killing him would've been one of Scaramanga's achievement, as he'd said: "Battle of the titans".

    Like where and how did Scaramanga knew Bond exactly? What's his motivation for wanting to kill Bond? Why he'd liked to kill James Bond?

    And it's pretty absurd because Scaramanga's assassination was personally aimed at Bond only (even specifically sending a bullet with 007 engraved on it), how did these people (Scaramanga and Andrea) knew Bond/007?

    So, one thing that went to my mind was is Bond really that popular? That celebrity status became the concept of the film, it's no different to Tiffany Case reading Peter Frank's card in Diamonds Are Forever and told: "You've just killed James Bond!"

    It's one of the reasons why I didn't liked that film, unlike in the book, Scaramanga was just an ordinary Assassin (gangster) who protects his businesses, and he killed a some British Agents or any law enforcers whom he would suspect of putting a cease into what his doing, so when Bond was sent there, it's just an ordinary mission (not personal unlike in the film), Scaramanga didn't know Bond, nor he had a knowledge of who he was, but at the same time, making Scaramanga more of Bond's evil reflection.

    I think that assassination plot would've been a lot more clear and plausible had Maibaum put a background or history between Bond and Scaramanga (of how did he knew him).
  • edited August 2023 Posts: 2,518
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    The Solex and the whole energy crisis does date the film terribly. Especially since we are in the same spot now with renewables. I guess they chose a current day headline and it bit them.

    It really didn't need the solex plot, however it gave Scaramanga the golden gun. Though it's a cliche I think.

    There are not many Bond films where I would ask for a remake, but Golden Gun is one. There is a better film in there somewhere. The rush to cash in on LALD I think hurt the film and the extra year likely would have done wonders for the film and the script.

    I think the book had an interesting plot that I wished the film just adapted instead.
    More believable and more realistic than what we've got in the film.

    So, if they're going to remake the film, just make it more closer to the book's plot instead.

    I do find it funny how in the film even Scaramanga admits he has no idea how the Solex actually works. He seems more interested in using it for his laser gun thingy (which isn't even gold.... how he can he truly be 'the man with the golden gun' now? So stupid...). It's a pretty lame scheme really.

    I think the biggest missed opportunities with TMWTGG were a) them supposedly sidelining a lot of stuff during the script stage that made Scaramanga out to be more Bond's equal, and b) in place of this not involving an actual assassination or something during the climax, which at least would have more tension.

    Probably a controversial opinion, but even the plot of Scaramanga's plan for assassinating Bond wasn't that utilized and written well.

    I mean, what's the reason why he'd liked to assassinate Bond?
    From what he'd said, Scaramanga knew Bond was one of the best assassins in the world, killing him would've been one of Scaramanga's achievement, as he'd said: "Battle of the titans".

    Like where and how did Scaramanga knew Bond exactly? What's his motivation for wanting to kill Bond? Why he'd liked to kill James Bond?

    And it's pretty absurd because Scaramanga's assassination was personally aimed at Bond only (even specifically sending a bullet with 007 engraved on it), how did these people (Scaramanga and Andrea) knew Bond/007?

    So, one thing that went to my mind was is Bond really that popular? That celebrity status became the concept of the film, it's no different to Tiffany Case reading Peter Frank's card in Diamonds Are Forever and told: "You've just killed James Bond!"

    It's one of the reasons why I didn't liked that film, unlike in the book, Scaramanga was just an ordinary Assassin (gangster) who protects his businesses, and he killed a some British Agents or any law enforcers whom he would suspect of putting a cease into what his doing, so when Bond was sent there, it's just an ordinary mission (not personal unlike in the film), Scaramanga didn't know Bond, nor he had a knowledge of who he was, but at the same time, making Scaramanga more of Bond's evil reflection.

    I think that assassination plot would've been a lot more clear and plausible had Maibaum put a background or history between Bond and Scaramanga (of how did he knew him).


    I would say that despite how tongue in cheek the early 70s films handle Bond's reputation/notoriety (that "You've just killed James Bond!" element you pointed out in DAF and TMWTGG), I do think they could have done something with it. In the past they had FRWL in which SPECTRE (or the Russians if you go from the novel) know who Bond is and want to assassinate him. Within that very small and dangerous world it makes sense that a man like Bond is somewhat known by some of his enemies. I agree, there certainly could have been more of a backstory between Bond and Scaramanga, even if it was simply leaning into the fact that Scaramanga had previously killed a fellow 00. But I do think a 'battle of the titans' thing between Bond and an obsessed villain like Scaramanga could have worked.

    I think the problem with the novel's version of the character is that he comes off as just that, an ordinary gangster. His plan seems to involve liaising with other gangsters and doing nefarious but ultimately mundane things like smuggling prostitutes, raising the price of cane sugar, and setting up casinos... it's a bit lame as well, and I can see why they went with something else for the film.

    Truth be told, I think the decision to cast Lee as a more debonaire version of the character was the correct one. Without the novel's main hook of Bond recovering from his brainwashing and the questions of whether he's still an effective agent (and I'm not entirely sure how well the book handles this anyway) you need a strong villain and a strong scheme to raise the stakes. Like I said, it seems that the 'Bond's equal' aspect of the character was slowly diluted with each draft of the script, which is a shame. I think the closest and best adaptation of a Scaramanga type character actually came in the form of Silva from SF. Interestingly in that film they leaned much more into how that character was a sort of warped mirror image of Bond, and the film is all the more interesting for it.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,784
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think the biggest missed opportunities with TMWTGG were a) them supposedly sidelining a lot of stuff during the script stage that made Scaramanga out to be more Bond's equal, and b) in place of this not involving an actual assassination or something during the climax, which at least would have more tension.

    Yes, absolutely. I do think that Scaramanga is a missed opportunity as he's a great character in a fairly naff film, and they throw away his whole unique setup i.e. being an assassin, on a dull plot about a mcguffin.
    I wouldn't be upset if they brought him back in a new film.
    007HallY wrote: »
    I think the problem with the novel's version of the character is that he comes off as just that, an ordinary gangster. His plan seems to involve liaising with other gangsters and doing nefarious but ultimately mundane things like smuggling prostitutes, raising the price of cane sugar, and setting up casinos... it's a bit lame as well, and I can see why they went with something else for the film.

    Truth be told, I think the decision to cast Lee as a more debonaire version of the character was the correct one.

    Yes, the film's version is much more suitable to the world of the Bond movies than the book one: it's a good thing they changed him.

    Ludovico wrote: »
    It might come off as controversial as lots of people here want Bond to return to standalone movies, but I think one great missed opportunity was not to give the Brosnan era more continuity AND a recurring adversary. The tenure lacked focus after GE and the series would have benefitted from a new Nemesis. Say make Trevelyan the second in command of the Janus Syndicate (two faces, two people in charge) and have Janus return in TWINE. Because of 006, they know a lot about the inner works of MI6, making them all the more dangerous.

    A Brosnan story arc is a great idea; I could see that working. I think they're rubbish, but the Union books of Raymond Benson kind of show how that could have worked. I think an arc through Brosnan's films would have been good

    I also feel like Roger's Bond should perhaps have moved towards a more genuine love interest: perhaps his last film should have had a more mature woman in it, in the style of Octopussy, who we actually saw him get a bit more believably romantic with and create a bit more of a bond.

    Otherwise I feel like Thunderball is full of missed opportunities, but not least of them is that Fiona should have been the main baddie.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2023 Posts: 3,367
    007HallY wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    SIS_HQ wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    The Solex and the whole energy crisis does date the film terribly. Especially since we are in the same spot now with renewables. I guess they chose a current day headline and it bit them.

    It really didn't need the solex plot, however it gave Scaramanga the golden gun. Though it's a cliche I think.

    There are not many Bond films where I would ask for a remake, but Golden Gun is one. There is a better film in there somewhere. The rush to cash in on LALD I think hurt the film and the extra year likely would have done wonders for the film and the script.

    I think the book had an interesting plot that I wished the film just adapted instead.
    More believable and more realistic than what we've got in the film.

    So, if they're going to remake the film, just make it more closer to the book's plot instead.

    I do find it funny how in the film even Scaramanga admits he has no idea how the Solex actually works. He seems more interested in using it for his laser gun thingy (which isn't even gold.... how he can he truly be 'the man with the golden gun' now? So stupid...). It's a pretty lame scheme really.

    I think the biggest missed opportunities with TMWTGG were a) them supposedly sidelining a lot of stuff during the script stage that made Scaramanga out to be more Bond's equal, and b) in place of this not involving an actual assassination or something during the climax, which at least would have more tension.

    Probably a controversial opinion, but even the plot of Scaramanga's plan for assassinating Bond wasn't that utilized and written well.

    I mean, what's the reason why he'd liked to assassinate Bond?
    From what he'd said, Scaramanga knew Bond was one of the best assassins in the world, killing him would've been one of Scaramanga's achievement, as he'd said: "Battle of the titans".

    Like where and how did Scaramanga knew Bond exactly? What's his motivation for wanting to kill Bond? Why he'd liked to kill James Bond?

    And it's pretty absurd because Scaramanga's assassination was personally aimed at Bond only (even specifically sending a bullet with 007 engraved on it), how did these people (Scaramanga and Andrea) knew Bond/007?

    So, one thing that went to my mind was is Bond really that popular? That celebrity status became the concept of the film, it's no different to Tiffany Case reading Peter Frank's card in Diamonds Are Forever and told: "You've just killed James Bond!"

    It's one of the reasons why I didn't liked that film, unlike in the book, Scaramanga was just an ordinary Assassin (gangster) who protects his businesses, and he killed a some British Agents or any law enforcers whom he would suspect of putting a cease into what his doing, so when Bond was sent there, it's just an ordinary mission (not personal unlike in the film), Scaramanga didn't know Bond, nor he had a knowledge of who he was, but at the same time, making Scaramanga more of Bond's evil reflection.

    I think that assassination plot would've been a lot more clear and plausible had Maibaum put a background or history between Bond and Scaramanga (of how did he knew him).


    I would say that despite how tongue in cheek the early 70s films handle Bond's reputation/notoriety (that "You've just killed James Bond!" element you pointed out in DAF and TMWTGG), I do think they could have done something with it. In the past they had FRWL in which SPECTRE (or the Russians if you go from the novel) know who Bond is and want to assassinate him. Within that very small and dangerous world it makes sense that a man like Bond is somewhat known by some of his enemies. I agree, there certainly could have been more of a backstory between Bond and Scaramanga, even if it was simply leaning into the fact that Scaramanga had previously killed a fellow 00. But I do think a 'battle of the titans' thing between Bond and an obsessed villain like Scaramanga could have worked.

    I think the problem with the novel's version of the character is that he comes off as just that, an ordinary gangster. His plan seems to involve liaising with other gangsters and doing nefarious but ultimately mundane things like smuggling prostitutes, raising the price of cane sugar, and setting up casinos... it's a bit lame as well, and I can see why they went with something else for the film.

    Truth be told, I think the decision to cast Lee as a more debonaire version of the character was the correct one. Without the novel's main hook of Bond recovering from his brainwashing and the questions of whether he's still an effective agent (and I'm not entirely sure how well the book handles this anyway) you need a strong villain and a strong scheme to raise the stakes. Like I said, it seems that the 'Bond's equal' aspect of the character was slowly diluted with each draft of the script, which is a shame. I think the closest and best adaptation of a Scaramanga type character actually came in the form of Silva from SF. Interestingly in that film they leaned much more into how that character was a sort of warped mirror image of Bond, and the film is all the more interesting for it.

    In FRWL, it's pretty reasonable because both Bond and his enemies were all in one circle (Intelligence) with the deep connections like the killing of Dr. No, and doing their research on Bond, they're this organization whose member was killed by Bond, there's a deep connection in there, Bond and SPECTRE are just in the same world.

    But in something like DAF and TMWTGG, those for me are pretty far already, they're not in the Intelligence, with far connections, they're criminals (smugglers, assassins), they're out and far from Bond's world, so for them to know Bond was really out of depth, at least for me.

    Sure, Scaramanga killed a fellow 00 (Fairbanks?) But not as personal as Bond, Scaramanga killed Fairbanks because of the Solex Agitator, but Scaramanga's intention for killing Bond was mostly personal, he knew the man pretty well.

    That's the thing I liked in the book, Scaramanga had no knowledge of Bond, they're both strangers to each other, no personal connections.

    I actually liked the concept regarding the Solex Agitator (it's a pretty interesting plot that's somehow was mishandled), had the film just focused on that, TMWTGG would be a decent film (although the plot is the least of my issues with the film, there are a lot more problematic elements in that film which makes me still disliked it).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited August 2023 Posts: 14,784
    I do think the way that Bond is drawn into the plot of TMWTGG, with the golden bullet, the threat on his life, him going off duty and investigating in his own time, the bullet turning out to have been sent by Scaramanga's lover, desperate for escape... all of that is lovely and original plotting for a Bond film. It just all falls apart in the second half.
    So yeah, I kind of count the whole movie as a missed opportunity. Keep all of that good stuff and then add a better second half, more in keeping with the idea of Scaramanga being the best assassin in the world. And don't make Bond the baddie this time!
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