Stupid In A Bond movie?

chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
in Trivia & Games Posts: 17,698
I just watched Never Say Never Again for the first time in way over ten years on a new blu ray.
And now I will say it; I hate the stupid.
The stupid (like, really stupid) started in The Spy Who Loved Me and ended (mostly) with A View To A kill. John Glen was *trying* to make them more serious with Roger Moore, but it wasn't working so much. Never Say Never Again came out the same year as Octopussy, and I'll say this: I will never watch either again. Stupid.
Early Connery, Tim, or Pierce. Or the one with Diana Rigg. Okay, Moore's first two too.....
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Comments

  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,915
    Define the stupid in NSNA and OP if you will @chrisisall
    I’m sure most of us will list the same things.
    We could also go through each of the Bond films and list each of those stupid or silly moments that we find infuriating.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited February 2023 Posts: 3,401
    Benny wrote: »
    Define the stupid in NSNA and OP if you will @chrisisall
    I’m sure most of us will list the same things.
    We could also go through each of the Bond films and list each of those stupid or silly moments that we find infuriating.

    The same for the books, I can list them one by one! 😄

    The James Bond Franchise had its shares of stupid things just like the every other franchises, so it's not comes off to me as surprising.

    And despite of them having some stupid things, I could still enjoy them for what they are, it's not that I'm not watching them because of just that, I'm watching them because as a Bond fan (fan of James Bond in general), I'm going to accept them for what they are with open mind.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,773
    One person's "stupid scenes" are another person's comic relief. E.g. for me, the invisible car and the tsunami surfing and the cringe-worthy dialogue of DAD are what I'd call stupid. And I'd rather watch Connery's cartoonish scene with Barbara Carrera or the urine sample kitchen fight in NSNA and even Roger's Tarzan scene and tiger taming in OP (which is very low on my list) than that, because while these are over the top, they are at least funny. NSNA was clearly designed as a spoof anyway, and I remember that having been the opinion of basically every critic when it came out.

    It is also not dependent on the Bond actor or his tenure. If "stupid" is a criterion, I can't see the Brosnan "era" standing out from the rest. Rather the opposite (and I like the first two of them). The most "serious" of the bunch, besides OHMSS (because it is so close to the novel), must be the Craig films, and they have been much criticized for allegedly having dropped all the fun. But there's no doubt that some aspects (do I need to mention "foster brother"?) are also "stupid".

    There's no accounting for personal taste, and any of this is far from objective.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2023 Posts: 17,698
    Actually, NSNA started out well as a quasi-spoof, I thought. Lots of truly funny moments. Connery was good. "Now you're on this. I hope we're going to see some gratuitous sex and violence." I guess the really stupid part was how slow and lifeless the last third was. It was like a bad by-the-numbers painting. Endless gun fire, lots of ducking, Bond pushing over a 20 ton stone head like it weighed a few hundred pounds... then the needless Mr. Bean gag at the end topped off with a wink. Have to say though, loved the title song. And at least there was no Wookie yell. Ooops, I mean, Tarzan yell.

    Sorry. I was in a bad mood right after watching NSNA last night. I will watch Octopussy again- it has some terrific moments in it. And if some parts are stupid (and they are) it's never boring.
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    edited February 2023 Posts: 1,007
    For me, the saving grace of Octopussy is that the “stupid” moments collectively make up literally 30-40 seconds of a 2 hr film. It becomes easier and easier to overlook the more you watch it. I still champion an Octopussy re-edit where there’s no:

    - Tarzan tell
    - Cleavage zooming
    - “Sit” for the tiger
    - a few snippets of stereotyped India

    Would hardly change the film. In stark contrast to Bond “turning Japanese” in YOLT… that’s about the dumbest thing in the Bond series I can think of.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,711
    I agree that NSNA is a whole bucket of stupid. There's enough in OP to save that film for me. But TMWTGG and AVTAK are borderline lost cases. Despite its silliness, MR is positively serious in comparison.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,698
    For me, the saving grace of Octopussy is that the “stupid” moments collectively make up literally 30-40 seconds of a 2 hr film. It becomes easier and easier to overlook the more you watch it. I still champion an Octopussy re-edit where there’s no:

    - Tarzan tell
    - Cleavage zooming
    - “Sit” for the tiger
    - a few snippets of stereotyped India

    Would hardly change the film.

    Funny, the sittt at the tiger made me laugh. Desperate time; try something from a cat trainer!
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,773
    For me, the saving grace of Octopussy is that the “stupid” moments collectively make up literally 30-40 seconds of a 2 hr film. It becomes easier and easier to overlook the more you watch it. I still champion an Octopussy re-edit where there’s no:

    - Tarzan tell
    - Cleavage zooming
    - “Sit” for the tiger
    - a few snippets of stereotypical India

    Would hardly change the film.

    But then you would get head-on into the same "censorship" discussion that is just now raging about the Fleming novels. Sure it might have been a better film without that nonsense, but even though I don't really like Octopussy, we shouldn't advocate the kind of re-editing that George Lucas did on his first Star Wars movies.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2023 Posts: 17,698
    The two stupidest moments in Bond movies for me both involve Jaws. Biting the cable & turning into a good guy (He KILLED people, I don't see Bond suddenly getting okay with that) .
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 1,007
    I agree that TSWLM and MR era had a bit of a comic/cartoonish quality, I suspect they were really shooting for a younger audience with those.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,773
    It looks like we've got into a bit of overlapping posts between, say, 9:39 pm and 9:42 pm (my time, I don't know about yours). Still I would herewith like to state that I don't consider NSNA "a bucket of stupid", but find it more enjoyable as a movie experience than the movie it copied, i.e. TB, which I find at times tedious and not near as funny.

    As I probably have said many times before, it may be because I watched NSNA several times before I ever saw TB, and therefore lack the reflex of saying that it was just a bad remake...especially since I find it more entertaining than the original. And yes, with its contemporary competitor (OP), I can only say that I much prefer NSNA over that. As with about a third of the other "official" films.

    And those Jaws moments you mentioned, @chrisisall, are indeed stupid. I love MR nonetheless, and more than TSWLM.
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,063
    I think if you dig and think about the plots of the Bond films you have find holes or gaps of logic. While this does lessen the enjoyment of the movie, in some cases it can be a dealbreaker for some. I guess it depends on the level of stupid, or the tolerance of the viewer.

    Some "stupid" things I can think of within some of the films:
    • MR, how does Drax get his whole space station up into space in the first place without anyone noticing or any nation putting an end to his plan.
    • LALD, how exactly will Kananga become a monopoly, last time I checked others could grow poppies. How will he corner the drug market?
    • AVTAK, so Zorin destroys Silicon Valley, how will this stop the building of chips?
    • NTTD, what exactly is Safin going to do when vast amounts of the population are wiped out. Why do we need tanker to collect nano bots that were shown to be held in small test tubes? Just how many bots has he produced?
    • NTTD, Why doesn't Safin age? He appears to be the same age as when he killed Madeline's mom.
    • OP, how is Bond able to get into clown makeup so fast. It would appear that this all takes place in a few minutes. It would take considerably longer than that. Why would Bond dress exactly like double-o-9?
    • QOS why does Bond simply discard Camille at the yacht club. Why not try to talk with her and learn more about Greene?
    • TSWLM why does Bond callously put an innocent woman in the line of fire when Sandor shoots? If he doesn't, why does this woman give her life for a man she just met? Why does she attempt to distract Bond in the first place? Is she with Sandor or is she loyal to Fakesh?

    Those are just a few "stupid" things that I can think of!
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou. I can still hear my old hound dog barkin'.
    Posts: 8,773
    Yes, @thedove, but you're getting into plot holes now. Don't. You'll get stuck in the mud and sucked into it and drown with every single Bond movie if you're going that route. None of them is completely logical, but they rely on the famous "suspension of disbelief". That's part of their DNA, but does not make them necessarily "stupid".
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,698
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Yes, @thedove, but you're getting into plot holes now. Don't. You'll get stuck in the mud and sucked into it and drown with every single Bond movie if you're going that route. None of them is completely logical, but they rely on the famous "suspension of disbelief". That's part of their DNA, but does not make them necessarily "stupid".

    Agreed. Perhaps Drax employed a technology we didn't see to get his station up there without anyone noticing- but we DID see Jaws cut through a steel cable with steel teeth and very human jaw muscles. That's Don't think too hard about it Vs. Don't look at what you're seeing.... LOL
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 5,063
    I still think my Spy one is in the line with stupid. It was either stupid of the woman, or of Bond to use her as a human shield? Isn't Bond's treatment of Camille stupid? Leaving her at the yacht club knowing that Greene was out to cause her harm?
  • edited March 2023 Posts: 15,906
    As far as stupid goes, sadly, I think Bond himself was kind of a dumb ass in some of the later films.
    He drags M to his childhood home just to get her killed and even worse gets himself killed 2 films later. :(
    If 007 can effortlessy put on clown makeup and a costume with just seconds to spare before an atomic bomb goes off, he could've escaped that damned island in NTTD.


    And the excuse that Craig's Bond is a different timeline to Moore, Connery, etc is just stupid.
    Bond is Bond regardless who plays him.

    That's my rant on The Stupid.

    However, I can let Tarzam yells, Bond in dungarees and elephants pushing Sherrif JW Pepper into the water slide.
  • Posts: 1,892
    chrisisall wrote: »
    The two stupidest moments in Bond movies for me both involve Jaws. Biting the cable & turning into a good guy (He KILLED people, I don't see Bond suddenly getting okay with that) .

    So does May Day turning good in AVTAK also qualify as stupid for you? At least with Jaws, they use him as the butt of jokes in TSWLM and his biting the shark set up us not being able to take him seriously again and MR just ups the ante from the start. He mostly lost his deadly killer status, so the switching sides actually works in that capacity, and is a good move on Bond's part. The most menacing thing Jaws does in MR is almost bite Manuela in the Rio alley.

    The May Day turning is one of my most cringeworthy moments of the series in a film filled with them. They set her up as a formidable foe and built some of the marketing campaign around the character - "Has James Bond finally met his match?" She's murdered several of Bond's colleagues and now the two are about to have it out in the mine and instead we get sparkling dialogue to explain the switch like "And I thought that creep loved me." Then she becomes a martyr.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited March 2023 Posts: 17,698
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    As far as stupid goes, sadly, I think Bond himself was kind of a dumb ass in some of the later films.
    He drags M to his childhood home just to get her killed and even worse gets himself killed 2 films later. :(
    If 007 can effortlessy put on clown makeup and a costume with just seconds to spare before an atomic bomb goes off, he could've escaped that damned island in NTTD.


    And the excuse that Craig's Bond is a different timeline to Moore, Connery, etc is just stupid.
    Bond is Bond regardless who plays him.

    That's my rant on The Stupid.

    However, I can let Tarzan yells, Bond in dungarees and elephants pushing Sherrif JW Pepper into the water slide.

    ^^ THIS!!^^
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,401
    chrisisall wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    As far as stupid goes, sadly, I think Bond himself was kind of a dumb ass in some of the later films.
    He drags M to his childhood home just to get her killed and even worse gets himself killed 2 films later. :(
    If 007 can effortlessy put on clown makeup and a costume with just seconds to spare before an atomic bomb goes off, he could've escaped that damned island in NTTD.


    And the excuse that Craig's Bond is a different timeline to Moore, Connery, etc is just stupid.
    Bond is Bond regardless who plays him.

    That's my rant on The Stupid.

    However, I can let Tarzan yells, Bond in dungarees and elephants pushing Sherrif JW Pepper into the water slide.

    ^^ THIS!!^^

    Even in the earlier films, Bond had some shares of stupidity in him, the most primary example of this is when he'd thrown the ATAC machine far away in FYEO, like the whole movie focused on the retrieval of that thing, it's supposed to be his mission, yet at the end he'd decided to just thrown it away, and it's like the movie told us that it didn't made sense in the end, like it's not all worth it because at the end, he'd just thrown it away, it's not being selfish, but it's his job, he's given that mission (Melina's father even died because of it), Bond risked his life for that damn ATAC machine, yet at the end he would just thrown it away.

    Even his usage of that third nipple gadget in TMWTGG, doesn't makes sense either because the enemy would still recognized him given that his face was different from Scaramanga's, and not even thinking that this guy named Hai Fat given his connections to Scaramanga could have possibly met the real Scaramanga, and clearly knows what he looks like.

    Even in the earlier films, Bond had his shares of stupidity.
  • Posts: 15,906
    I think it was pretty stupid of Bond to throw away that tool box in in Jaws' van. He could've used it later when the van dies in the middle of the desert.
    Luckily, Anya was there to immediately ascertain the cylinder head gasket was the problem.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited March 2023 Posts: 3,401
    For me the most stupid part of the Bond films, not going to lie are the villains 😅

    They're the most stupid, they're rich, yet stupid.
    Especially the earlier Bond villains made the later/modern Bond villains quite intelligent in comparison.

    Like does Bond really need to deal with those type of villains? For me, they're one or two dimensional villains.

    Why? Because they made some decisions that would make your head scratch, and the worst? Bond outwitted some of them in numerous occasions.

    I'd liked my Bond villain not just to be threatening but also to be three dimensional as well, no doubt many people liked Alec Trevelyan, because you just couldn't messed up with the guy, he's calculated, reasonable in his actions, not stupid, have personality, he'd made his plans unexpectedly, have inner grit, he's probably the realistically evil Bond villain.
  • CharmianBondCharmianBond Pett Bottom, Kent
    Posts: 549
    Stupidest moment for me is Q plugging Silva's laptop into the mainframe. Major slip up from the computer genius there. I feel like that at least earned a demotion.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,711
    Stupidest moment for me is Q plugging Silva's laptop into the mainframe. Major slip up from the computer genius there. I feel like that at least earned a demotion.

    True. The screenwriters overlooked a major detail there.
  • Posts: 3,193
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Stupidest moment for me is Q plugging Silva's laptop into the mainframe. Major slip up from the computer genius there. I feel like that at least earned a demotion.

    True. The screenwriters overlooked a major detail there.

    Perhaps it was the intern’s job to go over the laptop before handing it over to Q?
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,915
    007HallY wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Stupidest moment for me is Q plugging Silva's laptop into the mainframe. Major slip up from the computer genius there. I feel like that at least earned a demotion.

    True. The screenwriters overlooked a major detail there.

    Perhaps it was the intern’s job to go over the laptop before handing it over to Q?

    But at the end of the day, is it the fault of an intern?
    Should Q not have checked all was good before plugging in.?
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,711
    007HallY wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Stupidest moment for me is Q plugging Silva's laptop into the mainframe. Major slip up from the computer genius there. I feel like that at least earned a demotion.

    True. The screenwriters overlooked a major detail there.

    Perhaps it was the intern’s job to go over the laptop before handing it over to Q?

    No, it was C. You see, before C became C, he had already infiltrated MI6 as a non-descript "confiscated-terrorist-laptop-handler." And since Silva was working for Blofeld, C allowed the virus to infect MI6. It's all connected--all of it. Kookoo!
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,915
    Oh you're getting deep there @DarthDimi very DEEP!
    So you're saying it was the writers intention to subtlety include a storyline from SP in SF to make the storyline even more concrete?
    That's genius.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,711
    Benny wrote: »
    Oh you're getting deep there @DarthDimi very DEEP!
    So you're saying it was the writers intention to subtlety include a storyline from SP in SF to make the storyline even more concrete?
    That's genius.

    Yes! And it goes beyond that. When Bond fell off the train in the PTS of SF, and then hit the water, he must have "felt" a serious "blow". Felt - Blow. Blow - Felt. BLOFELD! They were telling us in broad strokes that Blofeld was behind it all long before 2015! I'm telling you, it's alllll connected!

    1000_F_205294757_u8HIrDG4n3a4LATu5zOfDO0zvVLuS1RD.jpg
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,915
    e8jiw1y8l6kg.gif

    @DarthDimi stop, you're freaking me out.

    azc84cbaf6hv.gif

  • Posts: 3,193
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Stupidest moment for me is Q plugging Silva's laptop into the mainframe. Major slip up from the computer genius there. I feel like that at least earned a demotion.

    True. The screenwriters overlooked a major detail there.

    Perhaps it was the intern’s job to go over the laptop before handing it over to Q?

    No, it was C. You see, before C became C, he had already infiltrated MI6 as a non-descript "confiscated-terrorist-laptop-handler." And since Silva was working for Blofeld, C allowed the virus to infect MI6. It's all connected--all of it. Kookoo!

    The author of all of MI6's technical oversights....
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