Does NO TIME TO DIE have the best ending in the franchise?

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  • edited December 2022 Posts: 1,576
    At least the story made sense and there was a cumulative “final boss” effect. Here it’s just some side character that comes outta nowhere.

    I actually don't mind Safin during the first half of NTTD. It's interesting seeing a villain who has had his life negatively impacted by Blofeld/SPECTRE, not dissimilar to Bond in a sense. His presence is hinted quite well for the most part, and I think his introduction (the one later in the film that is) is satisfying. If they'd streamlined the plot and ironed out his character in the third act I think he'd have been a great villain.

    Like I said, Waltz's Blofeld was just.... lame. I do think it was the right decision introducing an alternate villain for NTTD.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 736
    Malek's Safin was so promising in the trailers.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited December 2022 Posts: 5,343
    TheBondFan wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    Then we have the ending, where Bond sends off another double-o agent so that he can take on the baddies alone.
    This has always been one of my biggest gripes with the ending. The 50-some year old, 5 year retiree is being sent to complete this critical mission, while the current, young, capable double-O leaves to accompany his love interest and daughter to safety? And Nomi herself is okay with this?

    Outside of "it's a Bond film so it has to be Bond finishing the mission" and "we wrote this backwards from the ending and we need him dead" it doesn't really hold up to me. I don't even mind the idea of Craig's Bond dying in theory, but this execution is way too contrived for me.

    This rings true...I think if Bond knew a bit earlier that he was going to die, then it would make sense to send Nomi away with his family, but then he wouldn't get to have an in-person goodbye with Madeleine. So, within the logic of the film, Bond had to be infected after Madeleine left.

    Still...Madeleine can't pilot her own dinghy? Perhaps Nomi and Bond pursuing separate goals on the island...Nomi tracking the scientist and Bond tracking Safin.
  • CharmianBondCharmianBond Pett Bottom, Kent
    Posts: 489
    echo wrote: »
    TheBondFan wrote: »
    thedove wrote: »
    Then we have the ending, where Bond sends off another double-o agent so that he can take on the baddies alone.
    This has always been one of my biggest gripes with the ending. The 50-some year old, 5 year retiree is being sent to complete this critical mission, while the current, young, capable double-O leaves to accompany his love interest and daughter to safety? And Nomi herself is okay with this?

    Outside of "it's a Bond film so it has to be Bond finishing the mission" and "we wrote this backwards from the ending and we need him dead" it doesn't really hold up to me. I don't even mind the idea of Craig's Bond dying in theory, but this execution is way too contrived for me.

    This rings true...I think if Bond knew a bit earlier that he was going to die, then it would make sense to send Nomi away with his family, but then he wouldn't get to have an in-person goodbye with Madeleine. So, within the logic of the film, Bond had to be infected after Madeleine left.

    Still...Madeleine can't pilot her own dinghy? Perhaps Nomi and Bond pursuing separate goals on the island...Nomi tracking the scientist and Bond tracking Safin.

    That's a good point actually, she did it at the end of the previous movie, well she held the wheel steady, it's conceivable she might not know how to pilot it - also she's gotta keep Mathilde steady. And if Nomi stayed then we wouldn't get Bond's solo heroic last stand. But to reference Calvin's most recent video, I'm hammered by Contriva-tini at this point in the film anyway 🤣
  • Posts: 1,470
    Yes, because we can now move on from the ridiculous idea that Blofeld and Bond were foster brothers. I look forward to a whole new world for a new Bond to inhabit.
  • It always bothered me that the man to end Bond and be such a super villain threat to the world wasn’t Spectre and Blofeld, but just some ……geek. It sort of underscores the fact that their wasn’t a grand plan, and they (Eon) sort of just made stuff up as they went along.

    It's obvious they wrote the script backwards, to enable them to accommodate the stupid idea of killing James Bond off. But at least, as I've been told, this is only one version of James Bond that died. There'll be another along soon. So that's okay.
  • Posts: 4,388
    This tweet made me laugh. Daniel was channelling his inner Blanc during this sequence....

  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 38,785
    That's a good comparison, as that's one of the most jarring bits of acting from Craig during his tenure; not in a bad way, mind you, but feels like a completely different character almost that whole scene.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 3 Posts: 736
    I think that's one of the scenes that summed up NTTD. Bond talking for so long and swinging his hands. Like most scenes in NTTD, I still can't explain how I felt, when I watched that scene for the first time.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    edited January 3 Posts: 531
    This tweet made me laugh. Daniel was channelling his inner Blanc during this sequence....

    Woah, that is absolutely Blanc with a British accent.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 22,451
    This tweet made me laugh. Daniel was channelling his inner Blanc during this sequence....

    Woah, that is absolutely Blanc with a British accent.

    Excellent stuff, this! Yes, Craig was definitely in Blanc mode here.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 2,408
    Even he's scene with M in the office, he's also Benoit Blanc.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 3 Posts: 736
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Even he's scene with M in the office, he's also Benoit Blanc.

    Maybe the Matera sequence and the bunker shootout were the only ones he wasn't. Because I think he was, in the rest of the film.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,281
    He did shoot KNIVES OUT just prior to NTTD, so it doesn’t surprise me that bleeds into his performance.

    Still, even not considering Craig’s acting, the writing also presents Bond as being more vocally expressive than he typically is, which I attribute to Bond having been out of service for years and is no longer the internal agent he used to be. Craig’s acting just takes it another step.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    edited January 4 Posts: 1,983
    This tweet made me laugh. Daniel was channelling his inner Blanc during this sequence....


    That scene and the M scene are so out of character.

    I think a more senior director than Fukunaga would have pulled Daniel to one side and reminded him to be more stoic and assertive in both scenes. More Bond less Blanc

    You can see Blanc sneak into his performance in parts of NTTD, espicially his line deliveries when he meets Nomi in Jamaica ("that's not goooood")
  • Posts: 825
    It seems to me, that the big problem with NTTD is they were less concerned about the character of James Bond than they were about keeping DC happy and completing his 'arc' to his satisfaction.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 736
    It seems to me, that the big problem with NTTD is they were less concerned about the character of James Bond than they were about keeping DC happy and completing his 'arc' to his satisfaction.

    Very true. I think this is it.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,937
    It seems to me, that the big problem with NTTD is they were less concerned about the character of James Bond than they were about keeping DC happy and completing his 'arc' to his satisfaction.

    Yeah, I can't see whoever takes over the Bond role having the kind of control that Craig was given...
  • Posts: 1,576
    Thing is, I actually kind of like the idea of Bond being a bit less stoic after his retirement. In theory it reminds me of Fleming’s Bond being a bit more humorous after his ‘de-programming’ in TMWTGG. I think it actually feels very natural when he’s hanging with Felix in the bar in Jamaica.

    I think it becomes a problem during the Blofeld interrogation scene (Craig’s strange hand gestures and verbal embellishments of ‘Blo-field’ rather than Blofeld are especially jarring, and are very Benoit-esque). Surely even if Bond was out of the game he’s still an ex-00 agent with years of experience. Interrogating someone the right way would come naturally to him even if it’s Blofeld.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 1,983
    It seems to me, that the big problem with NTTD is they were less concerned about the character of James Bond than they were about keeping DC happy and completing his 'arc' to his satisfaction.

    Yeah I get that feeling too mate. A few of the scenes in NTTD are jarring, they just feel tonally out of character and that whole Blofeld scene should have been reshot.

    Daniel mentions the Blofeld scene in the book Being Bond and he said
    "We struggled with that scene. I wanted it to get very personal very quickly and I wanted them to talk to each other like brothers"

    To me that's completely wrong in concept, the only relationship Bond and Blofeld should have is adversarial
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited January 4 Posts: 736
    Bond's almost vehement love confession to Madeleine in Norway, is another scene I watch with my eyes closed. I think the way Peter Hunt directed Lazenby's Bond to subtly tell Riggs' Tracy about his love for her was much more better. Something Martin Campbell also did well in CR, when Bond told Vesper the same thing.
  • edited January 4 Posts: 1,576
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    It seems to me, that the big problem with NTTD is they were less concerned about the character of James Bond than they were about keeping DC happy and completing his 'arc' to his satisfaction.

    Yeah I get that feeling too mate. A few of the scenes in NTTD are jarring, they just feel tonally out of character and that whole Blofeld scene should have been reshot.

    Daniel mentions the Blofeld scene in the book Being Bond and he said
    "We struggled with that scene. I wanted it to get very personal very quickly and I wanted them to talk to each other like brothers"

    To me that's completely wrong in concept, the only relationship Bond and Blofeld should have is adversarial

    It’s quite interesting that Craig claims to have struggled with certain scenes in this film and tried something different. I remember Rami Malek saying on Graham Norton that he, Craig and Fukanaga also went off and basically rewrote/improvised the scene between Bond and Safin. Incidentally that’s another scene which feels off to me and includes stuff that doesn’t feel consistent to the characters (more so Safin than Bond in this instance admittedly). I’d be interested seeing what was originally written in the script. Much of Safin’s dialogue in the last part of that film is exceptionally vague and even flowery at points (ie. after he nanobots Bond) which is jarring compared to how the character is depicted in the rest of the film.
  • Posts: 825
    Bond's almost vehement love confession to Madeleine in Norway, is another scene I watch with my eyes closed.

    Yep. It was more like that Catherine Tate sketch he did.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 736
    Bond's almost vehement love confession to Madeleine in Norway, is another scene I watch with my eyes closed.

    Yep. It was more like that Catherine Tate sketch he did.

    Oh, Yeah. That's another.

  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,281
    I thought Craig sold it. I certainly bought their love in NTTD more than I did in SP which felt colder.
  • Agent_Zero_OneAgent_Zero_One Ireland
    Posts: 531
    I thought Craig sold it. I certainly bought their love in NTTD more than I did in SP which felt colder.
    I thought there was a substantial improvement on the SP relationship too.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 22,451
    Regardless of whether one likes the ending or not, I fully agree that Craig nailed it. A lesser actor wouldn't have been able to pull it off.
  • Posts: 948
    No. It wants to imagine itself equal to the ending of OHMSS. Not close. The death of Tracy was vengeful. Here Bond dies because the doors magically closed. If that silly nanobot story had to be used, then a tougher, more original ending would have been the self-imposed exile for the remainder of his life from those he loved. I don't care what DC wanted, killing off Bond was not shocking or poignant. For a series with a continuing character, it seemed dumb and unnecessary.
  • edited January 5 Posts: 825
    CrabKey wrote: »
    I don't care what DC wanted, killing off Bond was not shocking or poignant. For a series with a continuing character, it seemed dumb and unnecessary.

    It was terrible. After sixty years of making films about a hero that always escapes, they kill him off simply because it 'hasn't been done yet', and the Marvel 'multiverse' movies are in vouge. It was embarrassing to watch. He's dead, but it's okay, he's not. WTF!!!
    The David Brent dance of the Bond series. Eugh.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,281
    He's dead, but it's okay, he's not. WTF!!!

    See, I would understand this confusion if Craig was announced to return for Bond 26. But that’s not the case. His Bond died, and sometime down the line we’ll see a new iteration of the Bond character played by a different actor.
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