Wait...was the ending of NTTD foreshadowed nearly a decade ago? (SPOILERS)

edited November 2021 in No Time To Die Posts: 820
Major spoilers below, obviously.

(And a disclaimer: I'm not sure I believe this even as I type it, as I doubt there could have possibly been this much foresight about the twists and turns the Craig films were going to take as far back as the early 2010s).

But after two months, and multiple viewings of the film, I've finally just now realized:

The sky...quite literally falls on him.

And then, when I thought more about Adele's iconic song, its lyrics, and its rather overt themes of finality/death...

Let the sky fall...
(The missiles raining down on him).

When it crumbles...
(Safin's island base).

We will stand tall...
(Bond's defiant pose, to the last).

And face it all....
(Bond staring straight up at the missiles -- death itself -- as it hits him.)

Together...
(Finally emotionally whole and connected "with" his family, even though they're physically separated).

As I said above: it feels unlikely they would have conceived of Bond's eventual, specific death in 2011/2012. But I wonder if there could be some intentional reverse-looking in 2018/2019....in how his NTTD demise was ultimately crafted, to inject Adele's song with even more meaning and foreshadowing retroactively.

I sort of chuckled when it came to me. And then the more I thought about it, well...
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Comments

  • marketto007marketto007 Brazil
    Posts: 3,277
    It makes perfect sense to me.
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    Posts: 3,951
    Creepy but true. Good thoughts on that! Sam Mendes and John Logan could sue EON for this, lol.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 1,213
    You know, it’s kind of funny that Skyfall could be called No Time To Die and it would make perfect sense and No Time To Die being named Skyfall would also make perfect sense. In fact, I think the swapped titles actually work better.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited November 2021 Posts: 4,379
    There foreshadowed a lot of things, but also there changed there minds after QOS and again after Spectre. Bond death changed some things radical how you can look to earlier things, nice to see your take on this.

    In my opnion whyle conclussion is difrent, i think ''we all be witness of a big event'' what i thaught there mean stil remain. I always see it as lyrisc that buld on (contuned) from the lyric ''When the storm arrives would you be seen with me'' from You Know My Name.

    ''You are married with Spectre til death do us part'' from Spectre (Ring. Octopus holding the gun.) is stil a bit used too with Madeline. But i think original role of Madeliene part of Spectre be bigger (Woman be kild with arm of octopus, who i think is refer to Lucia too for movie it self.). And it is linked with Mr White qoute about Vesper in QOS (If she hasn't kild her self).

    The empty chair in QOS when Bond returns foreshadowed 3th time death of Dench M (2th time was with Bullet. First time was in CR maintitle when ''Next in line'' lyric over a star. In Skyfall ''death bell''.) and if you whant death of Mr White.
  • edited November 2021 Posts: 370
    Well they have to adapt as Bond always goes with the era each film is made.

    But I think they mapped out the broad strokes of what they were going to do back when they made CR. Look at the chorus for You Know My Name:

    Arm yourself because no one else here will save you
    The odds will betray you
    And I will replace you
    You can't deny the prize it may never fulfill you
    It longs to kill you, are you willing to die?
    The coldest blood runs through my veins
    You know my name

    Or the one from the band I forgot from QOS (Jet Black?):

    Someone that you think that you can trust
    Is just another way to die


    It seems the lyrics of the Craigs films revolve around that idea.
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    Well with the movie confirming at the end that James Bond will return, escaping death, maybe it was all foreshadowed 50+ years ago with YOLT
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    Well with the movie confirming at the end that James Bond will return, escaping death, maybe it was all foreshadowed 50+ years ago with YOLT

    "You only live twice:
    Once when you are born,
    And once when you look death in the face."

    And Bond quite literally looked death in the face!
  • DraxCucumberSandwichDraxCucumberSandwich United Kingdom
    Posts: 208
    Ryan wrote: »

    "You only live twice:
    Once when you are born,
    And once when you look death in the face."

    And Bond quite literally looked death in the face!

    Yep, and then he was engulfed in fire.
    So when he does return, he’ll be the ‘Phoenix for the Flame’
  • M16_CartM16_Cart Craig fanboy?
    edited November 2021 Posts: 538
    Bond said in Casino Royale "00's have a short life expectancy; so I won't be around for much longer".
  • Posts: 7,492
    M16_Cart wrote: »
    Bond said in Casino Royale "00's have a short life expectancy; so I won't be around for much longer".

    * "...so your mistake will be short lived."

    Just like yours... ;)
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,517
    While we're at it... "00's have a very short life expectancy..."

    Only reason I remember is because saying that the life expectancy of a 00 is "very short" and Bond will be "short" lived, sideways-implying Bond will outlive the regular life expectancy of a 00.

    I know, I know, I can't help that I always think about it that way when I watch the film. ;)
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,807
    Stamper wrote: »
    Well they have to adapt as Bond always goes with the era each film is made.

    But I think they mapped out the broad strokes of what they were going to do back when they made CR. Look at the chorus for You Know My Name:

    Arm yourself because no one else here will save you
    The odds will betray you
    And I will replace you
    You can't deny the prize it may never fulfill you
    It longs to kill you, are you willing to die?
    The coldest blood runs through my veins
    You know my name

    Or the one from the band I forgot from QOS (Jet Black?):

    Someone that you think that you can trust
    Is just another way to die


    It seems the lyrics of the Craigs films revolve around that idea.

    That first callout is the exact connection I made @Stamper.

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,845
    At the end of NTTD, when Madeleine said she wanted to tell Mathilde a story about a man, wouldn't the circle have been fully closed if Mathilde had said 'What's his name?' and Madeleine had said 'You know his name...'?
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    Venutius wrote: »
    At the end of NTTD, when Madeleine said she wanted to tell Mathilde a story about a man, wouldn't the circle have been fully closed if Mathilde had said 'What's his name?' and Madeleine had said 'You know his name...'?

    I considered it closed as is - both Casino Royale and No Time To Die end with the words "Bond, James Bond."
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,845
    Yes, that was the clear link - but I was thinking of a slightly subtler closure, by having CR open and NTTD close with you know my/his name.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,517
    Venutius wrote: »
    Yes, that was the clear link - but I was thinking of a slightly subtler closure, by having CR open and NTTD close with you know my/his name.

    I like the subtlety of connecting the end of the NTTD to the song of CR, but narratively, I think probably Mathilde may not know what his name is / what she's talking about. :))
  • Posts: 370
    Not sure if anyone noticed, but hear some bits of the chorus music of YKMN on the Zimmer soundtrack.
  • Posts: 820
    Stamper wrote: »
    Not sure if anyone noticed, but hear some bits of the chorus music of YKMN on the Zimmer soundtrack.

    I didn't pick up any direct references or reprisals. Any specific timestamps you can think of?
  • Junglist_1985Junglist_1985 Los Angeles
    Posts: 1,003
    This makes me wish that they transitioned into “You Know My Name” after Louie Armstrong during the closing credits. Damn, missed opportunity.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited November 2021 Posts: 4,379
    Someone that you think that you can trust Is just another way to die = Felix murderd by Ash.
    Hold Your Breath and Count to Ten = Bond swimming for his life after Felix died. Or last 10 seconds of Bond his life.

    But it is not what i was thinking it mean in first place. Hold Your Breath and Count to Ten = 1. You must count to 10 before you going to be angry. 2. Count to 10, in split second (10 in this case) you life is over. Reference to the guy at the airpart in CR and Bondgirl from Skyfall who takes a ''save'' shower, but stil dying. Also Vesper takes shower in CR. In other words: Taking a shower is another way to die.. With NTTD in mind, Bond was part of that shower with Vesper in CR and in NTTD Bond takes a shower.

    Earlier i already said taking the train is sometimes another way to die. Camile takes train in QOS and we don't know or she dies. Bond take train in Spectre and dies in NTTD, but Madeline takes it twice but not dying and Bond and Vesper taking the train in CR and dying. Curious what Rachel Weisz have thaught about this if Madeline does not have returnd.
  • Posts: 370
    @AgentM72 I will relisten to the OST, I catched that listening to it on the subway.
  • anyoneanyone Scotland
    Posts: 24
    Stamper, you are bang on the money regarding the idea that Bond will die as set down in CR. They knew how they were going to end the story right at the start of Craig's tenure.
    I didn't see it coming, I thought they might have him having to hole up in some island somewhere like at the end of YOLT novel, confused and his head gone. Then the next Bond incarnation would be him coming out of there and he's a new actor/new identity...

    But its there in the CR song, and right throughout the films. They knew what they were doing all along. The whole 5 films resonate as a whole when you see it. There is an upward curve to Bond's experiences in each film, culminating in the ultimate act of service. Something his petty ego could never have comprehended in CR.
  • Posts: 985
    anyone wrote: »
    But its there in the CR song, and right throughout the films. They knew what they were doing all along..

    I wish I had your faith.
  • Posts: 2,518
    No.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,845
    No.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited August 2022 Posts: 4,379
    https://www.moviefone.com/2015/10/08/daniel-craig-would-commit-suicide-before-playing-james-bond-agai/

    First of all Daniel Craig as Bond commit suicide in next one. Second: He lied because Skyfall already told us twice that Daniel Craig wil make another one at training scene. Whyle depant on how you see shooting too. That said there can lying again.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,297
    The "slit my wrists" line is one of the most pulled-out-of-context-and-exaggerated lines in recent history. Presidents and Prime Ministers get away with lying much more easily it seems than Craig with a little hyperbole after another extremely exhausting shoot.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited August 2022 Posts: 2,845
    Exactly, Darth. The thing that always got me about it was that the press deliberately set out to stoke fake outrage by never reporting Dan's 'What, now?!' at the start of his comment. They tried to make it look as though he said he'd slash his wrists rather than ever make another Bond film, whereas he actually meant 'what, make another Bond film right at this moment?' It was a joke, for God's sake. That was the other thing that got me: it was an obvious gag, but half the world seemed to think he meant it seriously! Bizarre. Northern English humour's not that hard to grasp, is it?
  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    Posts: 640
    A more plausible explanation is that the Adele lyrics subconsciously influenced the writers when they were trying to figure out how they'd kill off Craig's Bond.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited August 2022 Posts: 3,367
    Well, it's been foreshadowed many times not just in the songs.
    I mean, Craig's Bond had been in many near death situations, he even said to M that 00 agents have short life expectancy:

    1. In Casino Royale, when Vesper revived Bond using a defibrillator, he's nearly dying at that scene.
    2. In Quantum of Solace, when he's racing against time with Mitchell, gladly he took the shot the first before Mitchell shot him.
    3. In Skyfall when M decided to take a shot and Bond had been hit by Moneypenny, and there's also a line there where he said he's "enjoying death".

    I'm already expecting it, his Bond was not made to live for long. 😅

    And the lyrics in the song Writings on The Wall also foreshadowed it:

    "But I feel like a storm is coming
    If I'm gonna make it through the day
    Then there's no more use in running
    This is something I got to face
    If I risk it all
    Could you break my fall?

    How do I live? How do I breathe?
    When you're not here, I'm suffocating
    I want to feel love run through my blood
    Tell me, is this where I give it all up?
    For you, I have to risk it all
    'Cause the writing's on the wall
    "


    So in this lyrics, it's already foreshadowed that he would sacrifice for Madeleine.
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