The Michael Mann appreciation thread

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  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,271
    Watching Heat again recently there is just one scene that sticks in my craw. When Val Kilmer turns up at the police safe house trap, his wife Charlene tells the police it's not him. When the black and white unit check him out they go by his fake ID and let him go. Was there not a mugshot of him doing the rounds after the bank robbery and huge gunfight with the police?!!! 🤔

    Other than that, magnificent film 👍
  • Watching Heat again recently there is just one scene that sticks in my craw. When Val Kilmer turns up at the police safe house trap, his wife Charlene tells the police it's not him. When the black and white unit check him out they go by his fake ID and let him go. Was there not a mugshot of him doing the rounds after the bank robbery and huge gunfight with the police?!!! 🤔

    Other than that, magnificent film 👍

    That part always did seem too convenient of an out for Chris, but the tension leading up to the moment is masterfully mounted and as you say the rest of the film easily makes up for it.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2020 Posts: 5,914
    Watching Heat again recently there is just one scene that sticks in my craw. When Val Kilmer turns up at the police safe house trap, his wife Charlene tells the police it's not him. When the black and white unit check him out they go by his fake ID and let him go. Was there not a mugshot of him doing the rounds after the bank robbery and huge gunfight with the police?!!! 🤔

    Other than that, magnificent film 👍

    That is a hole for me too. Not only that, but Charlene and their son are in a new place, a new address; the film implies that she calls him but surely he would find the convenient new digs a bit suspicious considering he's a master thief?

    Still, I really like the scene anyway. Kilmer's expressions get me every time and Judd is wonderful, too.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,271
    Watching Heat again recently there is just one scene that sticks in my craw. When Val Kilmer turns up at the police safe house trap, his wife Charlene tells the police it's not him. When the black and white unit check him out they go by his fake ID and let him go. Was there not a mugshot of him doing the rounds after the bank robbery and huge gunfight with the police?!!! 🤔

    Other than that, magnificent film 👍

    That is a hole for me too. Not only that, but Charlene and their son are in a new place, a new address; the film implies that she calls him but surely he wouldn't find the convenient new digs a bit suspicious considering he's a master thief?

    Still, I really like the scene anyway. Kilmer's expressions get me every time and Judd is wonderful, too.

    Certainly nothing wrong with the acting. Kilmer looks in serious pain and Judd looks resigned to the fact they may never see each other again.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 5,914
    Watching Heat again recently there is just one scene that sticks in my craw. When Val Kilmer turns up at the police safe house trap, his wife Charlene tells the police it's not him. When the black and white unit check him out they go by his fake ID and let him go. Was there not a mugshot of him doing the rounds after the bank robbery and huge gunfight with the police?!!! 🤔

    Other than that, magnificent film 👍

    That is a hole for me too. Not only that, but Charlene and their son are in a new place, a new address; the film implies that she calls him but surely he wouldn't find the convenient new digs a bit suspicious considering he's a master thief?

    Still, I really like the scene anyway. Kilmer's expressions get me every time and Judd is wonderful, too.

    Certainly nothing wrong with the acting. Kilmer looks in serious pain and Judd looks resigned to the fact they may never see each other again.

    Speaking of Judd...

    There is a common criticism of the film (and Mann's work in general, actually) that the female characters are weak, but I love all the women in Heat. Amy Brenneman's Eady, in particular, leaves more of an impression on me with each rewatch. She is a big part of the heartbeat of the film.
  • mattjoesmattjoes So this is it. This joke is played out.
    Posts: 4,004
    Watching Heat again recently there is just one scene that sticks in my craw. When Val Kilmer turns up at the police safe house trap, his wife Charlene tells the police it's not him. When the black and white unit check him out they go by his fake ID and let him go. Was there not a mugshot of him doing the rounds after the bank robbery and huge gunfight with the police?!!! 🤔

    Other than that, magnificent film 👍

    That is a hole for me too. Not only that, but Charlene and their son are in a new place, a new address; the film implies that she calls him but surely he wouldn't find the convenient new digs a bit suspicious considering he's a master thief?

    Still, I really like the scene anyway. Kilmer's expressions get me every time and Judd is wonderful, too.

    Certainly nothing wrong with the acting. Kilmer looks in serious pain and Judd looks resigned to the fact they may never see each other again.

    Speaking of Judd...

    There is a common criticism of the film (and Mann's work in general, actually) that the female characters are weak, but I love all the women in Heat. Amy Brenneman's Eady, in particular, leaves more of an impression on me with each rewatch. She is a big part of the heartbeat of the film.
    I agree, Eady contributes substantially to the film's emotional content. It's interesting to imagine being in her shoes. A lonely person who strikes a connection with someone, whom she later finds out is a career criminal. And because of that strong connection, she's willing to stay with this person as he prepares to leave his life of crime behind. Quite the situation.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 5,914
    mattjoes wrote: »
    Watching Heat again recently there is just one scene that sticks in my craw. When Val Kilmer turns up at the police safe house trap, his wife Charlene tells the police it's not him. When the black and white unit check him out they go by his fake ID and let him go. Was there not a mugshot of him doing the rounds after the bank robbery and huge gunfight with the police?!!! 🤔

    Other than that, magnificent film 👍

    That is a hole for me too. Not only that, but Charlene and their son are in a new place, a new address; the film implies that she calls him but surely he wouldn't find the convenient new digs a bit suspicious considering he's a master thief?

    Still, I really like the scene anyway. Kilmer's expressions get me every time and Judd is wonderful, too.

    Certainly nothing wrong with the acting. Kilmer looks in serious pain and Judd looks resigned to the fact they may never see each other again.

    Speaking of Judd...

    There is a common criticism of the film (and Mann's work in general, actually) that the female characters are weak, but I love all the women in Heat. Amy Brenneman's Eady, in particular, leaves more of an impression on me with each rewatch. She is a big part of the heartbeat of the film.
    I agree, Eady contributes substantially to the film's emotional content. It's interesting to imagine being in her shoes. A lonely person who strikes a connection with someone, whom she later finds out is a career criminal. And because of that strong connection, she's willing to stay with this person as he prepares to leave his life of crime behind. Quite the situation.

    ....and then he does what he does to her in the end because of his principles. The final shot of her expression is quite heartbreaking, as McCauley has hurt her yet again after convincing her to stay only hours before.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,271
    Got the Arrow bluray of Thief the other day and it's an impressive disc.

    Watching this excellent film again I forgot what a nasty bit of work James Caan's character could be. But first time I realised his character uses no contractions in his dialogue.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 5,914
    Got the Arrow bluray of Thief the other day and it's an impressive disc.

    Watching this excellent film again I forgot what a nasty bit of work James Caan's character could be. But first time I realised his character uses no contractions in his dialogue.

    A great film. So many people I know have never heard of it, much less seen it. I think Caan said recently it was his favourite of the films that he had done.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,271
    Got the Arrow bluray of Thief the other day and it's an impressive disc.

    Watching this excellent film again I forgot what an A1 A-hole James Caan's character is
    Got the Arrow bluray of Thief the other day and it's an impressive disc.

    Watching this excellent film again I forgot what a nasty bit of work James Caan's character could be. But first time I realised his character uses no contractions in his dialogue.

    A great film. So many people I know have never heard of it, much less seen it. I think Caan said recently it was his favourite of the films that he had done.

    Yeah, there is a good interview with him on the special features. Also a commentary from him and Mann, which I have yet to listen to.
  • mattjoesmattjoes So this is it. This joke is played out.
    edited December 2020 Posts: 4,004
    "Mr. Frank Lala... whatevah."

    That scene with James Caan and Tuesday Weld in which they talk about their lives is top notch writing and acting. I've never been to prison but what he says about his mental state while in jail makes a great deal of sense. And when they talk about wasting time, or "waiting for a bus that's never coming, because you don't want to get on it, and you don't want to go anywhere"... terrific stuff.

    I'm still not crazy about the ending. He sends her away, never to see her again, then he goes and dispatches Leo and his people with relative ease (emphasis on relative), all by himself. I don't know, there's a slight feeling of contradiction between how seriously he takes the threat, basically throwing his life down the toilet as a reaction to that, and the fact he just drives up to Leo's house and takes him and his henchmen out in a matter of minutes. I'm not sure how large Leo's organization is, and whether more people will be coming after him after what he does, but these things feel slightly at odds in my view. Maybe someone has a different take on the ending. I'm not sure how I would have ended the film myself. I understand the gunplay is satisfying from a dramatic point of view, so I would have kept that, but I would have made its circumstances seem less in Caan's favor. Him disappearing into the night at the very end, that works.
  • jabalijabali Chicago, USA
    edited December 2020 Posts: 35
    Somewhat late to the party on this, but thrilled to see a thread on Mann's work! I'm a massive fan of Manhunter and Thief, but HEAT in particular is in my top 5 of all time. Precise and cutting (as is most of his work), oozing cool at all times, and one of the most (generally jokingly) quotable films for myself and my friends! "The action is the juice", "their M.O. is that they're good"...I could go on for ages.
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