Spectre: Reappraised, Reassessed

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  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,682
    Mallory wrote: »
    I am never bored during QoS, but some stretches of SP are very dull. They're both very flawed but I would rather watch QoS than SP most of the time.

    I agree with you 100% here, but for some reason I'm compelled to watch Spectre more often than QoS. I'm just too in love with the Rome, Altausse, L'Americain, Train, and Morocco sections of the film. I can take or leave the Hoffler bits, and the scene in Q's hotel room is dismal.

    Similarly, I love the South American flavour of QoS. You can almost feel the heat through the screen! Locations absolutely do make a difference, so I completely understand why you feel the way you do!

    With SP, I do enjoy the first third up to the end of the Rome meeting, the train fight, and the initial scenes in Blofeld's crater. Everything else lacks energy and focus and I find myself drifting or wishing I was watching SF instead.

    Good point about Rome, I should have mentioned my dislike of the car chase. The only two moments I like in there are when they're drifting around the Vatican, and the very end when Bond ejects and then lands on the bridge.

    They spent £25m on just cars alone for that sequence....

    I’ll let that sink in.

    What a waste of money for such a placid boring ass car chase.

    Burning away money for a huge sequence that's all style, no substance, much like the film as a whole.
  • I thought the way the car chase ended with Bond parachuting right in front of the confused man on the street was quite amusing. But other than that, I can’t really remember anything else about the sequence.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,682
    I thought the way the car chase ended with Bond parachuting right in front of the confused man on the street was quite amusing. But other than that, I can’t really remember anything else about the sequence.

    Big, empty streets, a shot of Hinx that looks like a PS2 cutscene and not much else.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,133
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I thought the way the car chase ended with Bond parachuting right in front of the confused man on the street was quite amusing. But other than that, I can’t really remember anything else about the sequence.

    Big, empty streets, a shot of Hinx that looks like a PS2 cutscene and not much else.

    Don't forget Frank Sinatra and the old man and his airbag!
  • Creasy47 wrote: »
    I thought the way the car chase ended with Bond parachuting right in front of the confused man on the street was quite amusing. But other than that, I can’t really remember anything else about the sequence.

    Big, empty streets, a shot of Hinx that looks like a PS2 cutscene and not much else.

    Sadly that’s the case. Lots of jumbled ideas that sadly don’t gel is how I describe SPECTRE.
  • Posts: 3,291
    Mallory wrote: »
    I am never bored during QoS, but some stretches of SP are very dull. They're both very flawed but I would rather watch QoS than SP most of the time.

    I agree with you 100% here, but for some reason I'm compelled to watch Spectre more often than QoS. I'm just too in love with the Rome, Altausse, L'Americain, Train, and Morocco sections of the film. I can take or leave the Hoffler bits, and the scene in Q's hotel room is dismal.

    Similarly, I love the South American flavour of QoS. You can almost feel the heat through the screen! Locations absolutely do make a difference, so I completely understand why you feel the way you do!

    With SP, I do enjoy the first third up to the end of the Rome meeting, the train fight, and the initial scenes in Blofeld's crater. Everything else lacks energy and focus and I find myself drifting or wishing I was watching SF instead.

    Good point about Rome, I should have mentioned my dislike of the car chase. The only two moments I like in there are when they're drifting around the Vatican, and the very end when Bond ejects and then lands on the bridge.

    They spent £25m on just cars alone for that sequence....

    I’ll let that sink in.

    What a waste of money for such a placid boring ass car chase.

    The brilliant QoS PTS car chase alone beats anything seen in SP, not just the dull Top Gear car chase. The one scene in SP worth watching is the train fight. Everything else is forgettable.

    QoS has its issues. The rapid Bourne editing is a bit too much at times, and jars with the way the rest of the film is shot, and the script isn't brilliant.

    But the Tosca scene, the final battle in the desert, the end scene in Russia, and Arnold giving arguably his best Barry circa 1971 sounding score, there is a lot more to enjoy in QoS than SP. At least QoS is not boring.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,091
    QOS is pretty boring to me.
  • QOS is pretty boring to me.

    Same here, it’s the one Bond film I can’t bring myself to watch. I’ve only watched it maybe 2x in a single setting, and even then it’s pretty dreadful.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Mallory wrote: »
    I am never bored during QoS, but some stretches of SP are very dull. They're both very flawed but I would rather watch QoS than SP most of the time.

    I agree with you 100% here, but for some reason I'm compelled to watch Spectre more often than QoS. I'm just too in love with the Rome, Altausse, L'Americain, Train, and Morocco sections of the film. I can take or leave the Hoffler bits, and the scene in Q's hotel room is dismal.

    Similarly, I love the South American flavour of QoS. You can almost feel the heat through the screen! Locations absolutely do make a difference, so I completely understand why you feel the way you do!

    With SP, I do enjoy the first third up to the end of the Rome meeting, the train fight, and the initial scenes in Blofeld's crater. Everything else lacks energy and focus and I find myself drifting or wishing I was watching SF instead.

    Good point about Rome, I should have mentioned my dislike of the car chase. The only two moments I like in there are when they're drifting around the Vatican, and the very end when Bond ejects and then lands on the bridge.

    They spent £25m on just cars alone for that sequence....

    I’ll let that sink in.

    What a waste of money for such a placid boring ass car chase.

    Yes, whereas the car chase in QoS is amazing, the car in SPECTRE is tame and underwhelming.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 3,985
    QOS is pretty boring to me.

    Same here, it’s the one Bond film I can’t bring myself to watch. I’ve only watched it maybe 2x in a single setting, and even then it’s pretty dreadful.

    Personally QoS got better with each subsequent viewing while SP got considerably worse. To the point with SP I can barely manage to watch the whole thing anymore. It's such an uneven mess, full of bad dialogue and bad ideas.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,091
    The car chase in QoS is an utter mess, like most of the action in that film. Rapid hard cuts and aggressive crashing sounds doesn't make it amazing. At least I can watch beautiful footage of cars in Rome without all the aggravation. It admittedly does feel like a throwback to the type of car chases in older Bond movies, which no doubt for many feels like a step backwards in car chase filmmaking.
  • QOS is pretty boring to me.

    Same here, it’s the one Bond film I can’t bring myself to watch. I’ve only watched it maybe 2x in a single setting, and even then it’s pretty dreadful.

    Personally QoS got better with each subsequent viewing while SP got considerably worse. To the point with SP I can barely manage to watch the whole thing anymore. It's such an uneven mess, full of bad dialogue and bad ideas.

    I’m on board with you there. Not a SPECTRE fan myself, but I think both QOS and SPECTRE are about on equal footing to me. I will say that Camille, and Greene are highlights for me, specifically Camille, I really loved her character.
  • chrisisall wrote: »
    What truly boggles my mind is how many folks like SF over SP... I'd almost rather watch MR than SF... almost... ;) SP was very far from perfect (like TND), but it was highly entertaining (like YOLT).
    *Raises shields*

    You are 100% on your own on this one, lol. Mendes put everything he had into SF, whereas he fell asleep at the wheel on SP. Night and day difference between the two films from both an action-film standpoint and artistically.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    echo wrote: »
    lol, a bit dramatic. Maybe you don't like the editing, or you didn't know there was a writers strike going on at the time, but there was definitely a bit of competent filmmaking involved in QoS.

    Like the endless table scene?

    The endless table scene?

    Given the editing and the runtime, there's nothing "endless" about QoS.
  • echo wrote: »
    lol, a bit dramatic. Maybe you don't like the editing, or you didn't know there was a writers strike going on at the time, but there was definitely a bit of competent filmmaking involved in QoS.

    Like the endless table scene?

    The endless table scene?

    Given the editing and the runtime, there's nothing "endless" about QoS.

    That’s actually a good point. I dislike QOS greatly, but I was amazed at how fast it flew by for me.
  • Posts: 7,002
    chrisisall wrote: »
    What truly boggles my mind is how many folks like SF over SP... I'd almost rather watch MR than SF... almost... ;) SP was very far from perfect (like TND), but it was highly entertaining (like YOLT).
    *Raises shields*

    You are 100% on your own on this one, lol. Mendes put everything he had into SF, whereas he fell asleep at the wheel on SP. Night and day difference between the two films from both an action-film standpoint and artistically.

    Not quite on his own! I would take SP over SF anyday. SF just didnt do it for me.
    However I would take QOS over both of them. Agree with my friend Leonardpine, gets better with every viewing!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,091
    Greene has easily got to be the weakest villain of the franchise. He's just a nonentity with the only distinctive thing being that french actor's bug eyes.
  • edited December 2020 Posts: 2,152
    Greene has easily got to be the weakest villain of the franchise. He's just a nonentity with the only distinctive thing being that french actor's bug eyes.

    I like Greene. He’s a weak villian yeah, and not really memorable. But he’s a twerp, and it’s funny seeing him get his arse handed to him by Bond. I even like when he clumsily puts the axe in his foot.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    Greene has easily got to be the weakest villain of the franchise. He's just a nonentity with the only distinctive thing being that french actor's bug eyes.

    I like Greene. He’s a weak villian yeah, and not really memorable. But he’s a twerp, and it’s funny seeing him get his arse handed to him by Bond. I even like when he clumsily puts the axe in his foot.

    I think you're both essentially right about Greene. He isn't exactly memorable and has no real distinctive, memorable qualities really. But he functions well as a down-to-earth villain with a plausable international scheme for Bond to deal with. I agree 100% with @MakeshiftPython 's assessment, but still think he's a decent addition to the franchise (which is otherwise, for the most part, filled with larger than life megalomania).
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,109
    suavejmf wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Bentley007 wrote: »
    I read one of the leaked scripts too just didnt catch the nod in the final film. Makes me like the movie even more! I will add that to my list of defenses for Spectre.

    I checked again and actually can’t find references to this connection :)) must have read about it somewhere else. I think in the final film you may be able to see something alluding to this connection on one of Qs screens if you look closely but I could be mistaken there as well.

    Yup, someone posted this on Reddit a while back I believe.

    I think it is on Q's laptop while he is in the gondola. The ring is made out of or has traces Reidite - a mineral only found at meteorite crash sites - and all the baddies from the previous film all had Reidite in ther posthumous toxicology reports. Meaning they either wore a ring or where at Blofeld's lair.
    u5bkdh3w11751.jpg

    Excellent! Thanks!

    Interesting. Shame it wasn’t very clear in the actual film edit.

    Interesting and very strange that they couldn't add a throw-away line about it.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    echo wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Bentley007 wrote: »
    I read one of the leaked scripts too just didnt catch the nod in the final film. Makes me like the movie even more! I will add that to my list of defenses for Spectre.

    I checked again and actually can’t find references to this connection :)) must have read about it somewhere else. I think in the final film you may be able to see something alluding to this connection on one of Qs screens if you look closely but I could be mistaken there as well.

    Yup, someone posted this on Reddit a while back I believe.

    I think it is on Q's laptop while he is in the gondola. The ring is made out of or has traces Reidite - a mineral only found at meteorite crash sites - and all the baddies from the previous film all had Reidite in ther posthumous toxicology reports. Meaning they either wore a ring or where at Blofeld's lair.
    u5bkdh3w11751.jpg

    Excellent! Thanks!

    Interesting. Shame it wasn’t very clear in the actual film edit.

    Interesting and very strange that they couldn't add a throw-away line about it.

    Would have worked as a line in from Q in the hotel room: "Strange, the toxicology of them all contain Reidite, a rare element most commonly found in... meteorite crash sites?" Maybe a quick odd look between them like, did these people come from space?

    Then when we see the meteorite in Morocco, it would have lined things up more satisfyingly.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited December 2020 Posts: 4,554
    Birdleson wrote: »
    My opinions on SP are well-known to those who care, but I was surprised to hear Quentin Tarantino today in a 2017 interview with Howard Stern say that he didn't care for SF and preferred SP, saying it was more like a "James Bond" movie.

    Interesting. I do remember some critics saying that SP was a return to a more "traditional" Bond. I mean, Peter Travers was glowing:

    "If there is such a thing as 'James Bond’s Greatest Hits,' then Spectre is it. The 25th movie about the British MI6 agent with a license to kill is party time for Bond fans, a fierce, funny, gorgeously produced valentine to the longest-running franchise in movies."

    https://www.rollingstone.com/movies/movie-reviews/spectre-112462/

  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited December 2020 Posts: 5,131
    QOS is pretty boring to me.

    Same here, it’s the one Bond film I can’t bring myself to watch. I’ve only watched it maybe 2x in a single setting, and even then it’s pretty dreadful.

    Personally QoS got better with each subsequent viewing while SP got considerably worse. To the point with SP I can barely manage to watch the whole thing anymore. It's such an uneven mess, full of bad dialogue and bad ideas.

    My feelings exactly. Albeit I’ve always enjoyed QoS.

    What a limp wristed and disappointing Blofeld Waltz was too. As bad as Grey in drag!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,091
    Birdleson wrote: »
    My opinions on SP are well-known to those who care, but I was surprised to hear Quentin Tarantino today in a 2017 interview with Howard Stern say that he didn't care for SF and preferred SP, saying it was more like a "James Bond" movie.

    Knowing Tarantino's tastes, that's not too surprising. A lot of SP feels like a greatest hits of 60s Bond iconography and that's something Tarantino would eat up. Plus, his boy Christoph Waltz is in it, so that probably colors his perception of it a lot more positively.
  • echo wrote: »
    lol, a bit dramatic. Maybe you don't like the editing, or you didn't know there was a writers strike going on at the time, but there was definitely a bit of competent filmmaking involved in QoS.

    Like the endless table scene?

    The endless table scene?

    Given the editing and the runtime, there's nothing "endless" about QoS.

    I'm struggling to think of any table scene in QoS. When they're comparing the banknotes before Bond goes off to Haiti?
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    echo wrote: »
    lol, a bit dramatic. Maybe you don't like the editing, or you didn't know there was a writers strike going on at the time, but there was definitely a bit of competent filmmaking involved in QoS.

    Like the endless table scene?

    The endless table scene?

    Given the editing and the runtime, there's nothing "endless" about QoS.

    I'm struggling to think of any table scene in QoS. When they're comparing the banknotes before Bond goes off to Haiti?

    Yeah, or maybe the scene where Greene and Medrano are signing the papers on the table in the Perla de los Dunas?

    I think maybe the OP was talking about the board meeting scene in Spectre, and not anything in QoS?
  • Birdleson wrote: »
    My opinions on SP are well-known to those who care, but I was surprised to hear Quentin Tarantino today in a 2017 interview with Howard Stern say that he didn't care for SF and preferred SP, saying it was more like a "James Bond" movie.

    Knowing Tarantino's tastes, that's not too surprising. A lot of SP feels like a greatest hits of 60s Bond iconography and that's something Tarantino would eat up. Plus, his boy Christoph Waltz is in it, so that probably colors his perception of it a lot more positively.

    I think Tarantino comes across as a bit “angered” (if that’s the correct term), with the Craig Era. We all know about his attempted bid to do Casino Royale, and the fact he never got that opportunity, and I think that must be the reason why. I do agree with his assessment on the best Bond actors, I have the same top 3 (Connery, Brosnan, then Moore, in that order), but I’ve always felt like Tarantino’s opinions are a bit clouded in spite.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,091
    Birdleson wrote: »
    My opinions on SP are well-known to those who care, but I was surprised to hear Quentin Tarantino today in a 2017 interview with Howard Stern say that he didn't care for SF and preferred SP, saying it was more like a "James Bond" movie.

    Knowing Tarantino's tastes, that's not too surprising. A lot of SP feels like a greatest hits of 60s Bond iconography and that's something Tarantino would eat up. Plus, his boy Christoph Waltz is in it, so that probably colors his perception of it a lot more positively.

    I think Tarantino comes across as a bit “angered” (if that’s the correct term), with the Craig Era. We all know about his attempted bid to do Casino Royale, and the fact he never got that opportunity, and I think that must be the reason why. I do agree with his assessment on the best Bond actors, I have the same top 3 (Connery, Brosnan, then Moore, in that order), but I’ve always felt like Tarantino’s opinions are a bit clouded in spite.

    I think he's pretty earnest about his thoughts on SF and SP. Way back in 2006 he said he couldn't bring himself to watch CR because he would be very biased given how attached he was to doing an adaptation of the novel. I dunno if he ever finally watched it all these years, but him watching Craig's later films suggest he may have gotten over that gripe.

    But like I said earlier, I wouldn't be surprised if he was more enthusiastic of SP simply because of his buddy Waltz being in it.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,722
    Mathis1 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    What truly boggles my mind is how many folks like SF over SP... I'd almost rather watch MR than SF... almost... ;) SP was very far from perfect (like TND), but it was highly entertaining (like YOLT).
    *Raises shields*

    You are 100% on your own on this one, lol. Mendes put everything he had into SF, whereas he fell asleep at the wheel on SP. Night and day difference between the two films from both an action-film standpoint and artistically.

    Not quite on his own! I would take SP over SF anyday. SF just didnt do it for me.
    However I would take QOS over both of them. Agree with my friend Leonardpine, gets better with every viewing!

    Yeah, QOS is still my favourite Craig Bond.
  • Tarantino's thoughts don't surprise me. On a first watch, if you're in love with the older Bond movies but you aren't as involved with them as we on this forum are, SP plays like a more overt greatest hits track (vs. SF's more organic winks).

    SF is definitely less of a Bond film in terms of template, and SP was much more consciously trying to go for something "classic" or "trope heavy." Tarantino would probably appreciate that, I'd guess. Speaking of which, I thought his newest movie was really good.
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