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Time to get rid of Purvis and Wade?

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  • slide_99slide_99 USA
    edited December 2022 Posts: 652
    P&W can only write what they're told to write. The main problem seems to be the producers and their insistence on making every single movie some sort of personal journey for Bond. If they approached the series the same way Cubby did, and just make each individual movie as good and fun as possible, they'd be better off.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 8,504
    slide_99 wrote: »
    P&W can only write what they're told to write. The main problem seems to be the producers and their insistence on making every single movie some sort of personal journey for Bond. If they approached the series the same way Cubby did, and just make each individual movie as good and fun as possible, they'd be better off.

    @slide_99 … actually it seems like the producers often turn to them for the story ideas… and then they decide, as a group, the best, most relevant story to tell.

    And personal journeys for Bond could be dated as far back as ‘89, so……… Audiences want to be emotionally invested. If they didn’t, these films would be bombs.

    But they’re not bombs. Even when they kill James Bond, they’re still successes (by the way, since you didn’t bother to see the last film, Spolier Alert ( 😂 ), they killed Bond)

    The producers are correct and have made the best decisions for their product.

    If it’s not you your cup of tea, you can always revisit the films from ‘62-87.

  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,928
    peter wrote: »
    actually it seems like the producers often turn to them for the story ideas… and then they decide, as a group, the best, most relevant story to tell.
    Yes, after Marc Forster had junked P&W's QOS script, EON asked Paul Haggis to come up with an alternative. He came up with the Bond-searches-for-Vesper's-daughter script, which EON apparently accepted and then had second thoughts about - which gave him just three months to conceive and write the script they did go with.

  • mattjoesmattjoes Kicking: Impossible
    Posts: 6,732
    Time to get rid of Purvis and Wade?

    -I'm a little surprised, Bert. It's not like you to panic.
    -I just don't enjoy seeing Purvis and Wade messing around with the James Bond films.
    -Never mind the James Bond films. You get down to that house. I'm afraid Purvis and Wade have suddenly outgrown their usefulness. Do it cleanly.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,269
    More than ready for fresh writers, coming from someone who mostly loved the Craig era. They’ve been repetitious in their themes and insert a little too much melodrama at times.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    edited December 2022 Posts: 40,474
    I'd enjoy seeing fresh blood across the board, especially in the writing department.

    I'm still curious to know what they're going to do with casting Q, M, and MP, if they'll go with a new cast for a new era and "new Bond" or if they'll decide to bring the Craig era players back. I hope it's the former.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,269
    With the depressing turn of technology, maybe robots will write the next Bond films…
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,571
    FoxRox wrote: »
    With the depressing turn of technology, maybe robots will write the next Bond films…

    Oh, boy - it's going to be very embarrassing were the "robots" (programs, actually) to do a good job !
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited December 2022 Posts: 2,901
    Since62 wrote: »
    FoxRox wrote: »
    With the depressing turn of technology, maybe robots will write the next Bond films…

    Oh, boy - it's going to be very embarrassing were the "robots" (programs, actually) to do a good job !

    We'd probably end up with something along these lines though -



    Better than TWINE to be fair...
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,928
    007HallY wrote: »
    Better than TWINE to be fair...
    :))
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,973
    peter wrote: »
    I’m split on P&W… I’ve read their Bond scripts, and reading is far different than watching films. Scriptwriting is its own craft and artistry in telling a story in a rigid three act structure with the appropriate beats and twists within these confines.

    I find their Bond scripts bloated and busting at the seams. And sometimes dense with descriptions (the art of film writing is to use as little words as possible to create imagery).

    However, writing a spec and writing on assignment are two separate beasts: the producers have hired you so the craftsmanship and artistry are not necessarily needed. The bosses just want the story.

    So it’s hard to judge how good they are as craftsman-writers.

    One thing for sure is, they know Fleming and are able to incorporate his spirit into their scripts. And I believe these scripts may be bloated because they know that this series is a producer-driven and director-driven medium, so the bloat is about giving the director as much as possible to work with.

    And they also know that once the director takes over, it’s his vision that goes on the screen. He can hire new writers, or take his own pen to the story. Once filming begins , he can cut any scene(s), he wants, and get entirely new scenes written on the spot. He may use new locations; cut characters… Amalgamate other characters; change day to night; change a setting from one place to another… (and once you change one thing in a script, there is a domino effect).

    In editing he and the editor can assemble a film that’s of an entirely different tone and even structure from the original script. So here’s where EoN may see much value in this duo’s work: they’re able to supply many scenes, and then some, for the director to then use as he sees fit to support his vision.

    I also suspect they write with speed (not some writers forte— although I know of a certain writer/director on this site that is one of the lucky ones: he writes beautifully and with speed (ahem, @ColonelSun), and; can be called on in a pinch to solve problems.

    These aren’t so much as artistically written scripts as they are material for a director to make a Bond picture. Which is a difficult assignment unto itself.

    A spec script, on the other hand, is a showcase of skill, artistry and craftsmanship because you’re trying to catch the attention of the producers— something I’m sure P&W had to do many times prior to their Bond gig…

    This isn’t an easy job (writing for 007), and likely has many many challenges. I wouldn’t be surprised (nor upset), if EoN went back to these guys to kickstart the next era (but there will be other writers involved at some point— whether credited or uncredited).

    Maybe that's their problem, leaving too many options. Personally I like QoS's strory best of all the last 20 odd years. It's quite intelligent, down to earth and makes sense. Compare that to i.e. Skyfall. A well-made film, but too many seperate 'stages' that hardly fit together. It makes the story utterly ridiculous. That metro coming down because Silva planned to be chased by Bond? Really? It's a good thing Bond kept up with him...

    Above all I find the dialogues in their films poor. That may be their writing or nit, I don't know, but it's very consistent across all their films, so it's why I blame it on them.

    I'm not denying they may have had a certain part in keeping the franchise alive, but I don't think the recent successes were because of them, rather, dispite them. Yes, they know their Fleming (so do I), but that's something a new writer can pick up on, and perhaps even will give a new interpretation of the role. After all, they've been doing this for a long....long... long time.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,928
    I'd say that QOS certainly benefited from Forster throwing out the P & W script and having Paul Haggis write one from scratch. ;)
  • ByRoyalDecreeByRoyalDecree
    Posts: 784
    Venutius wrote: »
    I'd say that QOS certainly benefited from Forster throwing out the P & W script and having Paul Haggis write one from scratch. ;)

    There we go
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