NTTD & Corona

DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
in No Time To Die (2020) Posts: 18,196
Dear fellow Bond fans,

There's no denying that the COVID-19 pandemic is affecting us all, and not just as people but as Bond fans as well. While we're eagerly anticipating NTTD, we must also currently face the cruel reality that release dates are uncertain. How much longer we shall have to wait, and whether or not the film still has a good chance of becoming a box office success... who can say at this point? It is no wonder then that our NTTD threads are, for lack of a better word, "infected" with Corona too. Some members call this unavoidable, others prefer to keep 007 and the pandemic (with all its political implications) separated. Both bring good and fair arguments to the game.

As a result, we would like to suggest that discussions about the NTTD release and Corona be taken here as much as possible. If, however, Corona still gets brought up in the other threads, we politely ask everyone to accept this since we're obviously no longer in any capacity to turn a blind eye to what is literally everywhere right now. Reading about the pandemic doesn't mean one has to comment on that; everybody is allowed to continue another conversation instead. Also, as long as we can keep things civilized, discussing the Trump administration's policy on Corona isn't forbidden, merely discouraged once members start getting their claws out. Fanboy fights can be fun but political fights can turn a place like this dark and sour really fast. Political comments aren't too big a deal, but as soon as you smell the gunpowder in your opponent's canon, please terminate the debate instantly. Also, there's the Coronavirus thread and now this one too. Surely, the other ones needn't be intruded upon by politics.

Lastly, we're all in this thing together, folks. We all want the new film and we're all going to have to sit this pandemic out first. Let's not get cranky, negative, pessimistic... about everything. We've got 24 solid Bond films (26 if you're a tad less demanding ;-) ), tons of good books, several really interesting games, lots of comics and so on to celebrate our love for Bond with. One day, NTTD will land in cinemas near you, and we'll all be able to see the film. But until then, let's take care of ourselves, our loved ones and each other here on the forum too. Let us bond through Bond, fight the virus, and encourage each other. We've got something to look forward to, after all: an end to all this suffering and a Bond film that promises to be really good. But it'll take time. A wise man once sang, "we have all the time in the world." Are we going to prove him wrong? ;-)

Thank you all, friends!

Darth Dimi
on behalf of the mod team
«13456738

Comments

  • OOWolfOOWolf Savannah
    Posts: 94
    I'm honestly surprised how production companies aren't prepared for the worst and keep toying with release dates this year. That being said, it would make much more sense had they just rescheduled every film to next year, sparing everyone from false hope and anticipation.

    Being from the U.S., I can say that this is the most undisciplined nation, and with all of the premature phase nonsense and mass ignorance, we will essentially be the main reason for yet another delay in the release of 'NTTD.'
  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 3,516
    Movie theatres would not be a good idea until we either have acheived a herd immunity or a vaccination has been developed. Sitting together even socially distant for 2 plus hours (do we think EON will edit it down to get the run time a bit shorter?) is not a good idea. Add in the multi surfaces that get touched and would then need to be disinfected and I dare say that the cinema is not going to open any time soon.

    The producers are in a tough spot as the crystal ball is very different and add in that some countries are having a fight keeping it under control while other countries seem to have handled things well. I don't envy anyone making a decision on a release date.

    One off the wall idea would be that Hollywood looks at Drive-In's. Here is Toronto we are having a drive in movie festival in the parking lot of an amusement park. We have also seen malls open their parking lots to drive in movies at night.
  • That being said, it would make much more sense had they just rescheduled every film to next year, sparing everyone from false hope and anticipation.
    Surely, it's better (in a way) to have false hope than no hope at all.
  • Posts: 97
    thedove wrote: »
    Movie theatres would not be a good idea until we either have acheived a herd immunity or a vaccination has been developed.

    I believe there is a third scenario where reopening cinemas is not a bad idea: a drastically reduced case number. For example: Taiwan. There are only 7 registred active cases in Taiwan right now and this is a country of over 23 million people. No herd immunity, no vaccination, but going to cinemas is a pretty safe thing to do in Taiwan right now.
  • Posts: 178
    That being said, it would make much more sense had they just rescheduled every film to next year, sparing everyone from false hope and anticipation.
    Surely, it's better (in a way) to have false hope than no hope at all.

    No, movie releases are not important right now.
  • Posts: 3,129
    False hope is for fools.
  • They are in terms of morale, trying to keep people's hopes up in a trying situation like this, trying to keep some sense of human culture alive, escapism most of all (especially with something like Bond).
  • Posts: 3,129
    There’s other methods.
  • False hope is for fools.
    Thank you, that's very kind of you.
  • Posts: 3,129
    If you wanna lie to yourself about how things will turn out much sooner than projected, have at it, just don’t drag anyone down with you.
  • I just want to stay positive about this film coming out, if not in November, then as soon afterwards as possible, that's all. Call me naïve or stupid or foolish if you want to.
  • Ah, we will probably see Knives Out 2 released before NTTD.
    It would suck for it to be pushed to next year. . but it's out of our hands what can we do except wait for it!
  • Posts: 3,129
    I just want to stay positive about this film coming out, if not in November, then as soon afterwards as possible, that's all. Call me naïve or stupid or foolish if you want to.

    You can stay positive with the thought that the film is in the can and the day we see it is inevitable. When exactly it comes out isn’t as important as the fact that it will. Besides, there’s loads of other things out there to keep one entertained.
  • OOWolfOOWolf Savannah
    Posts: 94
    I'll say it again, but I think everything related to 'NTTD' has been karmic. Bringing the film to fruition has been a roller coaster ride of unprecedented proportions. Finally, when the film is set to have a release date, it's rescheduled, only to be rescheduled once more because of the pandemic. So, in a way, I'm like f*** it, that's what happens when...
  • The issues relating to the release date for NTTD and the likely move to Summer 2021 are clearly set out here:

    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/no-time-to-die-expect-a-further-delay-announcement?id=04726
  • Posts: 178
    OOWolf wrote: »
    I'll say it again, but I think everything related to 'NTTD' has been karmic. Bringing the film to fruition has been a roller coaster ride of unprecedented proportions. Finally, when the film is set to have a release date, it's rescheduled, only to be rescheduled once more because of the pandemic. So, in a way, I'm like f*** it, that's what happens when...

    Yes, Covid 19 happened because this movie took a while.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited July 18 Posts: 18,196
    M_Blaise wrote: »
    OOWolf wrote: »
    I'll say it again, but I think everything related to 'NTTD' has been karmic. Bringing the film to fruition has been a roller coaster ride of unprecedented proportions. Finally, when the film is set to have a release date, it's rescheduled, only to be rescheduled once more because of the pandemic. So, in a way, I'm like f*** it, that's what happens when...

    Yes, Covid 19 happened because this movie took a while.

    Yeah. The stars were poorly configured. The Mayas predicted this. The Bible and the Quran have been hinting at this for ages. Barbara Broccoli just loves Craig too much. Firing Boyle did it: that's when the Chinese decided, you know what?, we're going to sleep very close to some bats tonight and unleash a plague on the world. That'll show them, those lousy EON people!

    Let me offer another idea: if Harry hadn't sold his shares to the suits back in '74-'75, if his ego hadn't objected to just selling to Cubby, tons of problems and delays and whatnot could've been avoided in the past 40+ years. But people never mention that. No, it's Barbara (not Michael, mind, Barbara) who usually takes the blame. I could be mistaken but she comes off as someone who's really protective of the Bond legacy, who won't just sell out for a quick buck. In fact, I appreciate the fact that the EON folks don't just rush things for the sake of it. Quality over quantity and all that.

    But alas, it seems some of our members just covet product. Doesn't matter if it's good or anything, just fill the Christmas bag. Quality filmmaking takes time. Yet dedicated people like Craig, who won't "just" star in another Diamonds Are Forever for the money and some perks on the side, are vilified for taking their time. Just cook something up and throw it out there to please the impatient, the spoiled. What I detest most of all is that people treat another Bond film as something they're entitled to, as if EON "owes" us. Not only does it demonstrate a painful lack of appreciation for all that we have gotten already, but it furthermore shows that a primal consumer mentality has taken over.

    Also, we're sitting on 24 (!) very enjoyable Bond films. I'm cool with that. If they pull the plug tomorrow and no more Bond films will ever be released, then what? Seeing how some people here treat "another Bond film tomorrow!!!" as a constitutional right, I bet a lot of psychiatrists would have a field day with that. I for one am happy we're getting another Bond film--eventually. I never take it for granted and I certainly don't demand it or, when something utterly unpredictable gets in the way, point fingers saying, "see? that's what happens when...".

    People are deluded if they somehow blame EON for the delays we're suffering through right now. And suggesting that they should have just produced a movie three years ago, even if neither Craig nor the producers, director, ... were entirely satisfied with it, is like the spoiled brat misbehaving in the mall when he doesn't get to play with the toys.
  • Posts: 3,129
    Man. Had Harry not sold his shares, I guarantee EON would have parted ways from MGM a LOOOOOOONG time ago for a stronger studio. There wouldn't have been that gap between 1989-1995, there wouldn't have been the one between 2008-2012, and EON certainly wouldn't have had to spend that time between 2015-2017 negotiating for a studio to co-fianance/produce the next Bond film just because MGM can't stand on their own.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 18,196
    Man. Had Harry not sold his shares, I guarantee EON would have parted ways from MGM a LOOOOOOONG time ago for a stronger studio. There wouldn't have been that gap between 1989-1995, there wouldn't have been the one between 2008-2012, and EON certainly wouldn't have had to spend that time between 2015-2017 negotiating for a studio to co-fianance/produce the next Bond film just because MGM can't stand on their own.

    And that's just the tip of the iceberg.

    Exactly. But somehow, people continue to overlook this important fact. It's always the fault of the one they so condescendingly refer to as "Babs". I for one am glad she likes Craig so much. He's a strong Bond. Besides, I never hear anyone complain about David Picker loving Connery (or the money Connery brought in) so much...
  • Posts: 3,129
    Michael G. Wilson of course gets no blame, because he got a lot of goodwill just from the 80s films alone, the films a lot of the older fans grew up with as children that they have a ton of affinity for. I've read from few fans speculating how he no longer has any pull, that it's mostly done by his sister and she has him locked down in a dungeon these days to keep him away. If only she had listened to her brother and the series would be better off. After all, he knows Fleming much better...

    And yet it turns out he came up with the Blofeld foster brother angle. Sooooo.....
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 5,559
    My love for Barbara Broccoli is never ending. My avatar will never be changed willingly.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 18,196
    The way I see it, Broccoli and Wilson are both trying to take the best possible care of Cubby's legacy, Fleming's legacy, in fact the legacy of tons of talented people these two grew up spending time with, from Young to Adam, Lamont, Binder and many other of the "founding fathers" of our beloved series. The last thing they'd want is to screw up.

    But I can imagine it's far from easy negotiating obstacles left and right, a rapidly changing world, the ever-present conflict between creativity and studio mandates, money / distribution / ... issues, audiences' fickle responses to the latest film, ... Whatever they do, whichever decision they make, they're bound to please one fraction of the fan crowd and displease another completely. Whatever they say or do, whether they announce a new film or brush their teeth, they receive praise almost as much as hatred. Whether they say yes or no, they will always face a nightmarish storm of ugly comments in the sewer pits of the internet called Facebook and Twitter, from people who can only consume and judge but who would never be able to write, shoot or edit even a decent PTS. They just can't win.

    Yet, in the end they always do. Because Bond endures. How ever people feel about the Craig era and how things are being run these days, there's no denying the series is still very popular and as far as general audience interest goes, in a better shape than it's probably ever been.
  • Posts: 3,129
    =D>
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 3,999
    Well said, DarthDimi!

    I think Barbara has done an excellent job, especially in casting and retaining Craig for as long as she has.

    While, understandably, as they adjusted to life after Cubby, their stewardship of Bond in the '90s was wobbly to say the least. Had they continued to cast copies of Moore (Brosnan, and then someone like Cavill), I think the series would have continued to lose cultural relevance.

    Somehow, getting the rights back to CR, and then casting Craig, rejuvenated the production team. Even if this regime never again reaches the heights of CR and SF, they've given us two of the very best films in the series.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 5,559
    On the money, Dimi.
  • Posts: 5,634
    Beautifully written @DarthDimi ...
  • RedNineRedNine Poland
    Posts: 61
    thedove wrote: »
    Movie theatres would not be a good idea until we either have acheived a herd immunity or a vaccination has been developed. Sitting together even socially distant for 2 plus hours (do we think EON will edit it down to get the run time a bit shorter?) is not a good idea. Add in the multi surfaces that get touched and would then need to be disinfected and I dare say that the cinema is not going to open any time soon.
    You realise that cinemas are currently opened in different countries around the world right ?
  • Posts: 12,626
    There's something I'm wondering: how will the pandemic affect public perception of NTTD on a meta level. If as some rumours say (and I have no idea if they're right) Safin's scheme involves biological warfare and maybe even a deadly virus, then the movie might be seen as prophetic. But on the other hand it might date it before it's even released, as we are now far more familiar with the realities of a pandemic than we were when it was filmed. Will we find NTTD lacking in realism or implausible?
  • OOWolfOOWolf Savannah
    Posts: 94
    The unique thing is that we're all Bond fans with different views in regards to what we would like to see. I think we can all agree on that.

    Casino Royale turned out well because it reverted to Fleming. It was a faithful modern adaptation aside from Craig's physical appearance. Cubby said it himself that when in doubt, always go back to the source. Craig's physicality and colder edge resonated with a modern audience, hence the success.

    Everything that followed has been a hodgepodge of ideas and it's very evident, because by Skyfall, James is already an aged and semi-obsolete relic. Only 3 films into what was meant to be a more grounded rejuvenation of the series, resorts to fantastical elements. The appearance of Komodo dragons, Silva's CGI face, and logical plot points, which are sacrificed for the sake of "poetic gestures," all harken back to the days of laser fights in space and balloon popping villains, which I don't mind in the context of the Cubby films.

    Personally, Skyfall would have been stronger had it tied all the loose ends from the previous two films. SPECTRE was then created out of financial ambition to ride on the coat tails of Skyfall with the stubborn insistence of bringing back Sam Mendes. Instead of methodically planning out the future, EON was lost and uninspired, leading them to fallback on the legal acquisition of Spectre/Blofeld. That being said, EON was treading on very delicate waters as the SPECTRE of the 21st century was supposed to be Quantum. If anyone were to ask me, I would have left out the rebooting of past villains and focused on keeping the stories and characters completely new.

    Now we come to 'NTTD' which is like an ad hoc response to the red herring finale of the Craig era, in SPECTRE. The film was made because the assured ticket for success, Craig, decided to return. Blofeld has now become the co-author of Bond's pain as Safin has become the principal author. On top of it all, we're supposed to be emotionally drawn into Bond's relationship with Madeleine with whom he formed 0 chemistry in the previous film.

    Bottom line, I agree that it's "far from easy negotiating obstacles left and right" in a "rapidly changing world" with "the ever-present conflict between creativity and studio mandates, money / distribution..." as DarthDimi had written, but aside from the obvious challenges of the pandemic, it seems that many of the previous delays stem from the imbalance of too small of a clear creative vision with too large of a financial ambition.
  • Posts: 637
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    The way I see it, Broccoli and Wilson are both trying to take the best possible care of Cubby's legacy, Fleming's legacy, in fact the legacy of tons of talented people these two grew up spending time with, from Young to Adam, Lamont, Binder and many other of the "founding fathers" of our beloved series. The last thing they'd want is to screw up.

    But I can imagine it's far from easy negotiating obstacles left and right, a rapidly changing world, the ever-present conflict between creativity and studio mandates, money / distribution / ... issues, audiences' fickle responses to the latest film, ... Whatever they do, whichever decision they make, they're bound to please one fraction of the fan crowd and displease another completely. Whatever they say or do, whether they announce a new film or brush their teeth, they receive praise almost as much as hatred. Whether they say yes or no, they will always face a nightmarish storm of ugly comments in the sewer pits of the internet called Facebook and Twitter, from people who can only consume and judge but who would never be able to write, shoot or edit even a decent PTS. They just can't win.

    Yet, in the end they always do. Because Bond endures. How ever people feel about the Craig era and how things are being run these days, there's no denying the series is still very popular and as far as general audience interest goes, in a better shape than it's probably ever been.

    One of the very best posts I've read here in quite some time. Well said, @DarthDimi.

    As much pain as we've been in as Bond fans the last few years -- and to be frank, I do feel like there's been an uncharacteristically high level of it -- we're always still miles ahead of the game, IMO, as long as B&W are the stewards of the franchise.

    What they've accomplished since taking over in the early 90s is so much more difficult than they receive credit for. And with all the potential variables and pressures in play, it's a miracle anyone can even make good Bond films anymore. Let alone given us a few modern classics along the way.

    They'd put this film out tomorrow if they could. But we are where we all are, and there's little point in directing our (warranted) frustrations over it toward them.
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