What if Goldeneye had an amazing score?

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  • Posts: 1,394
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited June 2020 Posts: 8,025
    They’re free to that opinion, I just don’t agree with the producers. Eric Serra wasn’t making a traditional score, but I never cared for traditions and think people in Bond fandom put waaaaay too much stock onto that. A David Arnold GE score just sounds utterly soul crushing.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,559
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful

    Is that a fact?
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film. The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    It means they liked Arnold, not necessarily that they disliked Serra. Arnold was "promoted" by Barry after his S&S project. Again, they liked Arnold; it doesn't mean they disliked Serra.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    And they dumped Arnold and never looked back. And when they let go of Dan Romer for NTTD, they could have easily brought back Arnold to “save the day”, but instead went for Hans Zimmer.

    Seems EON doesn’t think Arnold is as essential as many Bond fans seem to believe.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,037
    I don't think I've ever seen the word "essential" used in relation to Arnold. As much as I like him, the best word would be "reliable", which is enough for a lot of people.

    Who ends up scoring the first film for the next Bond will be telling as to their attitudes towards the music. A familiar sound in an unfamiliar film does a lot to put ones mind at ease.

    I do think, regardless of how they view the GoldenEye score in isolation, that they realised that Serra was not going to be the guy to score multiple films in the series. I quite like the Serra score. I also quite like the Arnold scores.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    GadgetMan wrote: »

    SYNCHRONISED INSTANT, one of my favourite tracks from LE GRAND BLEU....Elegant Music from Serra.

    Probably my favourite soundtrack album of all time.

    Can't blame you, it really is a Geat Score.
  • GadgetManGadgetMan Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 4,247


    CAN I HAVE A WORD WITH YOU?....Another great track from Serra's LÉON - THE PROFESSIONAL.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2020 Posts: 14,980
    I do think, regardless of how they view the GoldenEye score in isolation, that they realised that Serra was not going to be the guy to score multiple films in the series.

    Yeah, and that's how they'd always seen the non-Barry composers: none of the group of Martin, Hamlisch, Conti or Kamen were brought back for another go, but not because they weren't happy with them, it was just the method to vary the house style occasionally. Once they got to the 90s and it looked increasingly clear that Barry wasn't coming back I guess they thought it can't do any harm to establish a new house style.
    I enjoyed Serra's score but I don't remember thinking he'd be back for the next one any more than I thought Sean Bean would.

    I think that varying-the-house-style thinking has gone now: I'd be surprised if they don't try and get Zimmer back for the next one.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,037
    Going forward, I'd be happier for each era to have a different composer, though. A composer does 3 or 4 films, then moves on. Next era, next actor, next composer; new Bond, new Bond sound to suit.

    Drastically changing things up from film to film within the same actor's tenure isn't something I'd personally prefer, especially if the idea of an overarching continuity that they've been experimenting with in the Craig era is to be repeated again (that is, of course, unless it really isn't working creatively).

    I'm a stickler for musical continuity; it's one of my pet peeves about the Marvel scores, and why I didn't like Danny Elfman's Justice League score. It's just one of those things that ties everything together nicely.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited June 2020 Posts: 14,980
    Going forward, I'd be happier for each era to have a different composer, though. A composer does 3 or 4 films, then moves on. Next era, next actor, next composer; new Bond, new Bond sound to suit.

    Yes, I did like Casino Royale a lot but the bits I didn't like included hanging on to bits and pieces of Brosnan's time, such as Dench (although she was so strong and improved later down the line, so forgivable) and keeping Arnold on. He upped his game and it is a good score, but a fresh sound would have really helped the reboot I think.
    I'm a stickler for musical continuity; it's one of my pet peeves about the Marvel scores, and why I didn't like Danny Elfman's Justice League score. It's just one of those things that ties everything together nicely.

    Unless it's Thomas Newman? ;)
    And Elfman did try and give continuity in his own way by bringing back the most iconic Batman and Superman themes, but I take your point: it's not consistent with the previous films for those versions of those characters.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,037
    mtm wrote: »
    Unless it's Thomas Newman? ;)
    And Elfman did try and give continuity in his own way by bringing back the most iconic Batman and Superman themes, but I take your point: it's not consistent with the previous films for those versions of those characters.

    Haha! No, Newman's scores are fine - I just prefer Arnold's efforts overall. And despite the common opinion, I don't have too much of an issue with the reuse of themes from SF. Most of it, such as the reprisal of "Mother", made perfect sense. It's just his action material in general that I feel is extremely lacking.

    Re: Elfman, yes. I saw what he was trying to do; I just found it spectacularly misjudged. It sounded like a Youtube fan score.

    But anyway, back to GoldenEye; there's a few bits about the score that I would change, but it hits its marks for the most part. I like Serra's use of drums in particular. There's a great tiny musical moment where Onatopp is stalking Bond in the sauna, and he grabs her and throws her in and raises the PPK before throwing out the "safe sex" line. I love that, and the percussion amps up the coolness of it.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    mtm wrote: »
    Unless it's Thomas Newman? ;)
    And Elfman did try and give continuity in his own way by bringing back the most iconic Batman and Superman themes, but I take your point: it's not consistent with the previous films for those versions of those characters.

    Haha! No, Newman's scores are fine - I just prefer Arnold's efforts overall. And despite the common opinion, I don't have too much of an issue with the reuse of themes from SF. Most of it, such as the reprisal of "Mother", made perfect sense. It's just his action material in general that I feel is extremely lacking.

    Re: Elfman, yes. I saw what he was trying to do; I just found it spectacularly misjudged. It sounded like a Youtube fan score.

    But anyway, back to GoldenEye; there's a few bits about the score that I would change, but it hits its marks for the most part. I like Serra's use of drums in particular. There's a great tiny musical moment where Onatopp is stalking Bond in the sauna, and he grabs her and throws her in and raises the PPK before throwing out the "safe sex" line. I love that, and the percussion amps up the coolness of it.

    +1.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    suavejmf wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    I don t care for neither the scene nor the accompanying score. Would be really interesting to hear Serra s original score for it.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,037
    suavejmf wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    I don t care for neither the scene nor the accompanying score. Would be really interesting to hear Serra s original score for it.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg" is on the album release.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    suavejmf wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    I don t care for neither the scene nor the accompanying score. Would be really interesting to hear Serra s original score for it.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg" is on the album release.

    Thanks, I just checked it out. So much better than the boring trite from Altman.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,037
    suavejmf wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    I don t care for neither the scene nor the accompanying score. Would be really interesting to hear Serra s original score for it.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg" is on the album release.

    Thanks, I just checked it out. So much better than the boring trite from Altman.

    It's a bit video-gamey for my liking but it's fun to listen to. I do like the Altman arrangement as well though.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    suavejmf wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    I don t care for neither the scene nor the accompanying score. Would be really interesting to hear Serra s original score for it.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg" is on the album release.

    Thanks, I just checked it out. So much better than the boring trite from Altman.

    It's a bit video-gamey for my liking but it's fun to listen to. I do like the Altman arrangement as well though.

    If you enjoy the scene, maybe that helps? For me it is one of the worst scenes in an already very poor film.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited June 2020 Posts: 8,037
    suavejmf wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    I don t care for neither the scene nor the accompanying score. Would be really interesting to hear Serra s original score for it.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg" is on the album release.

    Thanks, I just checked it out. So much better than the boring trite from Altman.

    It's a bit video-gamey for my liking but it's fun to listen to. I do like the Altman arrangement as well though.

    If you enjoy the scene, maybe that helps? For me it is one of the worst scenes in an already very poor film.

    Yeah, that's a fair point; it certainly helps alright! Are you a fan of any of Serra's other scores, @Thunderfinger?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    suavejmf wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    I don t care for neither the scene nor the accompanying score. Would be really interesting to hear Serra s original score for it.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg" is on the album release.

    Thanks, I just checked it out. So much better than the boring trite from Altman.

    It's a bit video-gamey for my liking but it's fun to listen to. I do like the Altman arrangement as well though.

    If you enjoy the scene, maybe that helps? For me it is one of the worst scenes in an already very poor film.

    Yeah, that's a fair point; it certainly helps alright! Are you a fan of any of Serra's other scores, @Thunderfinger?

    I really like parts of the GE score( e.g. in the statue park scene, that is wonderful), while other parts are really poor (e.g. Monte Carlo car chase scene). Love his Leon score. Not too familiar with the rest of his work. I did see The 5th Element when it came out, but remember nothing of the music, so I guess it didn t stand out either way.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    I don t care for neither the scene nor the accompanying score. Would be really interesting to hear Serra s original score for it.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg" is on the album release.

    Thanks, I just checked it out. So much better than the boring trite from Altman.

    Really. I thought the opposite. Serras version is like a 90’s computer game.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    I don t care for neither the scene nor the accompanying score. Would be really interesting to hear Serra s original score for it.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg" is on the album release.

    Thanks, I just checked it out. So much better than the boring trite from Altman.

    Really. I thought the opposite. Serras version is like a 90’s computer game.

    Neither is great or really manages to elevate the scene. It is just that if I should just listen to one of them on its own, the Serra track is much less boring.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    I don t care for neither the scene nor the accompanying score. Would be really interesting to hear Serra s original score for it.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg" is on the album release.

    Thanks, I just checked it out. So much better than the boring trite from Altman.

    Really. I thought the opposite. Serras version is like a 90’s computer game.

    Neither is great or really manages to elevate the scene. It is just that if I should just listen to one of them on its own, the Serra track is much less boring.

    Ah right. Fair enough. I prefer the ‘rousing’ quality of Altman’s piece, mainly just because it includes a more blatant use of the Bond theme.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    Im convinced that the producers realised that the score that Serra came up with was awful ( Hence them getting John Altman to rescore the crucial Tank chase ) but did not have a suitable replacement or the time to rescore the entire film.

    The fact that they never brought him back and struck gold when they brought on David Arnold to score the next FIVE movies speaks volumes.

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    I don t care for neither the scene nor the accompanying score. Would be really interesting to hear Serra s original score for it.

    "A Pleasant Drive In St. Petersburg" is on the album release.

    Thanks, I just checked it out. So much better than the boring trite from Altman.

    Really. I thought the opposite. Serras version is like a 90’s computer game.

    Neither is great or really manages to elevate the scene. It is just that if I should just listen to one of them on its own, the Serra track is much less boring.

    Ah right. Fair enough. I prefer the ‘rousing’ quality of Altman’s piece, mainly just because it includes a more blatant use of the Bond theme.

    I can understand that. I just don t feel much arousal from either piece honestly, or the scene in itself.
  • Posts: 1,394
    suavejmf wrote: »

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    Just as i guessed.Thanks for posting that.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    edited June 2020 Posts: 5,131
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    suavejmf wrote: »

    http://jamesbondradio.com/composer-john-altman-explains-what-went-wrong-with-goldeneyes-score-exclusive-by-matthew-chernov/

    According to the attached you are right. But it was too late to sack Serra when they realised. According to Altman, it was Micheal G Wilson who really hated Serra’s score.

    Just as i guessed.Thanks for posting that.

    Pleasure. Allegedly, the Producers were happy with Arnold’s more Barryesque traditional sound in TND. To be fair Arnold made that film seem better than it was with his score in my opinion.

    Barry was complimentary it seems:

    https://www.thejamesbonddossier.com/james-bond-films/tomorrow-never-dies/soundtrack.htm
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,037
    I do love TND, too! Lots of great stuff in it.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    I do love TND, too! Lots of great stuff in it.

    Agreed. Some rousing brassy Bond sounds for sure.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    It doesn't surprise me that Arnold admitted that he approached scoring the film as if he was a fan, because it feels very much like a fanboy score. It felt like a step backward for Bond music. His best stuff in TND was bits like "Hamburg Break In" where he broke out the electronics and does something that isn't just a slavish recreation of what the 60s scores sounded like.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,791
    I like both ends of the spectrum. I adore, truly adore, Serra's avant-garde score for GE, like I do all of his scores. Having said that, I can appreciate the more traditional approach of Arnold's as well.
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