NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,785
    Connery in CR would have been interesting to see!

    If Connery just accepted the offer back in 1967, Charles Feldman offered him the role and promised to do a serious adaptation, but then Connery rejected asking for more money and the rest is history.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,109
    They were wrong not to pay him. Everyone was wrong not to pay him. Connery was key to the success of Bond. And they could afford it. Not paying Connery what he wanted was a spectacular screw-up.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited November 2022 Posts: 3,785
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    They were wrong not to pay him. Everyone was wrong not to pay him. Connery was key to the success of Bond. And they could afford it. Not paying Connery what he wanted was a spectacular screw-up.

    I don't think so, he's offered a big money in DAF And his performance there was a lot left to be desired.
    Though, in the situation back in 1967, it's reasonable, and because of that, the film suffered with Niven in the role :))

  • If Connery had left Eon to film CR in 67 then he and Craig would have been the only two Bonds to have done an adaptation of Casino Royale and to have been killed in an explosion as James Bond.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited November 2022 Posts: 3,785
    If Connery had left Eon to film CR in 67 then he and Craig would have been the only two Bonds to have done an adaptation of Casino Royale and to have been killed in an explosion as James Bond.

    With Connery in the role, I'm not sure it would have been the same as the CR'67 that we've got.
    Feldman promised to do a serious adaptation and faithful to the novel as long as it's Connery who would be playing Bond, he's even considering Elizabeth Taylor for the role of Vesper Lynd.

    But when Connery rejected because he's asking for a paycheck, that's when it all changed and it became the Parody/Satire CR'67 that we've got.

    So definitely, no explosions at the end.
  • I don't know, there still could have been a serious explosion at the end. No Time to Die did it.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,534
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Connery in CR would have been interesting to see!

    If Connery just accepted the offer back in 1967, Charles Feldman offered him the role and promised to do a serious adaptation, but then Connery rejected asking for more money and the rest is history.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ThatTallGinger/status/1577691790135771144/photo/1
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,785
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Connery in CR would have been interesting to see!

    If Connery just accepted the offer back in 1967, Charles Feldman offered him the role and promised to do a serious adaptation, but then Connery rejected asking for more money and the rest is history.

    https://mobile.twitter.com/ThatTallGinger/status/1577691790135771144/photo/1

    Nice artworks! Thanks!
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,557
    I don't even think it was the money in the determining factor for Connery in the late 60s but the overwhelming filming schedules and intrusion from the paparazzi. I think he just needed a break from the role to avoid being typecast.

    I still would have loved Majesty's in 1967, YOLT in 1969 and Diamonds in 1971 with Connery leaving afterward.

    My opinion of NTTD has somewhat changed in the last year. Liked the film, hated the ending to loved the film to be accepting of the ending. I think personally, I wouldn't be chomping at the bits for a new film so soon if Bond could have rolled into the sunset with a much happier ending. An ending where everyone wins and no one had to die. I just don't think it was justified to kill both Bond and Felix. I mean Felix could have been there I the finale guns blazing with Bond. I just I still don't see the need to kill off major characters in a franchise and history in which none of them were ever killed. I understand it was the producers and Craig's decision prior to any of this that's what was going to happen, but I still felt it unnecessary. I'm a strong Craig fan and I highly enjoy all of his Bond films. But I find myself questioning his decision making when looking at the history of the franchise with no other iterations of the character being killed off as why he felt he needed to do it.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited November 2022 Posts: 3,785
    I don't even think it was the money in the determining factor for Connery in the late 60s but the overwhelming filming schedules and intrusion from the paparazzi. I think he just needed a break from the role to avoid being typecast.

    I still would have loved Majesty's in 1967, YOLT in 1969 and Diamonds in 1971 with Connery leaving afterward.
    .

    No, I would have loved him (Connery) to do Casino Royale in 1967 instead of the satire driven parody that we've got with Niven, then have Connery stepped down from the role, no returning back.

    Have Casino Royale 1967 as Connery's final Bond film, more faithful to the source material.

    Then the rest would still be the same, except that Lazenby would continue in Diamonds Are Forever.

    I want avoid Brigitte Bardot from being cast as Bond Girl (Tracy), or in any other Bond Girl roles, and I'm happy that she wasn't cast in any Bond Girl roles, especially Tracy.
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,557
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    I don't even think it was the money in the determining factor for Connery in the late 60s but the overwhelming filming schedules and intrusion from the paparazzi. I think he just needed a break from the role to avoid being typecast.

    I still would have loved Majesty's in 1967, YOLT in 1969 and Diamonds in 1971 with Connery leaving afterward.
    .

    No, I would have loved him (Connery) to do Casino Royale in 1967 instead of the satire driven parody that we've got with Niven, then have Connery stepped down from the role, no returning back.

    Have Casino Royale 1967 as Connery's final Bond film, more faithful to the source material.

    Then the rest would still be the same, except that Lazenby would continue in Diamonds Are Forever.

    I want avoid Brigitte Bardot from being cast as Bond Girl (Tracy), or in any other Bond Girl roles, and I'm happy that she wasn't cast in any Bond Girl roles, especially Tracy.

    I mean obviously I wasn't around in the 60s and perhaps Connerys star power would have been good enough to draw the fans but I'm just going off of how we saw the franchise start with a low-key detective thriller in DN to hollowed out volcano lairs in YOLT. Maybe they could have made CR work in the 60s but I would have preferred a more faithful adaptation of the Blofeld trilogy in novel order.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,210
    I thought Boothroyd showed up in DN because he just happened to be at the beginning of that particular novel (I think...certainly the idea of the PPK)

    If the character hadn't been in that book, he might have been passed over in the Bond formula or used as a one-off (or two-off, like Mathis).
  • ProfJoeButcherProfJoeButcher Bless your heart
    Posts: 1,711
    I'm just going off of how we saw the franchise start with a low-key detective thriller in DN to hollowed out volcano lairs in YOLT.

    To be fair, it went from hollowed out islands with nuclear reactors to hollowed out volcano bases. YOLT is obviously nuts, but DN stops being 'low-key' after about an hour.

  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,785
    I'm just going off of how we saw the franchise start with a low-key detective thriller in DN to hollowed out volcano lairs in YOLT.

    To be fair, it went from hollowed out islands with nuclear reactors to hollowed out volcano bases. YOLT is obviously nuts, but DN stops being 'low-key' after about an hour.

    True, the crab key dragon, anyone? 😅
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I've always wanted to ask someone who was watching these films in the cinemas as they were coming out... I wonder if it was strange that they effectively skipped OHMSS and went straight to YOLT from TB with Connery? I imagine 90% of moviegoers didn't care at all about the order of the novels, but surely there were some Bond novel aficionados back then that must have been thinking... why?

    I don't know. The continuity / order-of-things gatekeeper phenomenon feels more like an Internet thing than something ingrained in film fandom long before its advent, though I could be wrong, of course. Whatever the case, people had very few means of communicating discontent anyway. I don't think too many of Fleming’s avid readers were complaining in those days.

    I'd say it started with Home Video being more widespread and then the internet turbocharged it.

    I don't recall the exact quote, but didn't Peter Hunt always say something along the lines of his job being to get the viewer from the start of the film to the end of it without questioning the logic and if they do that after they left the theatre, it doesn't much matter to him? Meaning, they themselves didn't all that much care about plot holes let alone continuity across multiple films.
    I don't think a 60s Casino Royale would have been all that similar to the book, tbh.

    To get back in track with NTTD: I am just more and more convinced that NTTD is actually two films, one of which I like a lot and one of which I don't really care for. And the one I don't really care for happens to be most of the things that carry over from SP. Fruit of the poisoned tree, or something.
    One of the reasons I defended the ending when the film first came out was the obvious construction of it. How the film snookers Bond into a situation he can't get out of and goes quite a long way to point out possible outs and then shut them off (albeit sometimes in a blin-and-you'll-miss-it way). Part of that is that they use a previous Bond girl, so he isn't giving up everything for someone we first met 2 hours ago. I think that's smart. At the same time, I just don't like their love story in SP. It's better in NTTD, but it's still not quite there and I bump on that more and more.

    PS: is this where I go to watch flame wars again, now the the Bond actor thread is closed?
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 3,134
    I don't know, there still could have been a serious explosion at the end. No Time to Die did it.
    That's because NTTD is a remake of CR '67! Er, so I've heard...

  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited November 2022 Posts: 3,785
    Venutius wrote: »
    I don't know, there still could have been a serious explosion at the end. No Time to Die did it.
    That's because NTTD is a remake of CR '67! Er, so I've heard...

    CR'67: Mata Bond
    NTTD - Mathilde

    CR'67: Explosion at the end
    NTTD - Explosion at the end

    CR'67: Many Bonds
    NTTD - Two 007s

    CR'67: Bond was pulled out of retirement to work on a mission
    NTTD - Bond was pulled out of retirement for one last mission.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,109
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    I don't know, there still could have been a serious explosion at the end. No Time to Die did it.
    That's because NTTD is a remake of CR '67! Er, so I've heard...

    Mata Bond
    - Mathilde

    Explosion at the end
    - Explosion at the end

    Many Bonds
    - Two 007s

    Bond was pulled out of retirement to work on a mission
    - Bond was pulled out of retirement for one last mission.

    Don't forget James Bond in heaven.
  • RyanRyan Canada
    Posts: 692
    Someone needs to do a fan cut ASAP with the music of CR '67 over some of the more serious moments in NTTD.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,109
    The Look Of Love could have worked in a perfectly legit manner.
  • j_w_pepperj_w_pepper Born on the bayou, but I now hear a new dog barkin'
    Posts: 8,976
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    I don't know, there still could have been a serious explosion at the end. No Time to Die did it.
    That's because NTTD is a remake of CR '67! Er, so I've heard...

    CR'67: Mata Bond
    NTTD - Mathilde

    CR'67: Explosion at the end
    NTTD - Explosion at the end

    CR'67: Many Bonds
    NTTD - Two 007s

    CR'67: Bond was pulled out of retirement to work on a mission
    NTTD - Bond was pulled out of retirement for one last mission.

    Oh, come on, people... Those things really have no connection at all. While I enjoy digging up all kinds of coincidences generally.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,534
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    I don't know, there still could have been a serious explosion at the end. No Time to Die did it.
    That's because NTTD is a remake of CR '67! Er, so I've heard...

    CR'67: Mata Bond
    NTTD - Mathilde

    CR'67: Explosion at the end
    NTTD - Explosion at the end

    CR'67: Many Bonds
    NTTD - Two 007s

    CR'67: Bond was pulled out of retirement to work on a mission
    NTTD - Bond was pulled out of retirement for one last mission.

    Oh, come on, people... Those things really have no connection at all. While I enjoy digging up all kinds of coincidences generally.

    This is how I feel when people compare Skyfall to Home Alone.

    Those connections to CR67 did make me laugh though.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2022 Posts: 3,134
    j_w_pepper wrote: »
    Oh, come on, people... Those things really have no connection at all. While I enjoy digging up all kinds of coincidences generally.
    Yeah, but someone in one of the Other Places said this:

    'James Bond has retired, still in his 50s, after an unhappy love affair, to an idyllic home. He is approached to come back to work- he’s initially reluctant but then agrees. The villains make an attempt to kill him early in the story while he’s in his car, but he survives.
    The main actress is also the female lead in an earlier Bond movie and there is some dubiety as to her character's loyalty. His old number, 007, is given to a younger agent. He finds out more about M than he has known before. Miss Moneypenny is of course invaluable to him and his work.
    Important to the plot is that he has a daughter he's never seen by the lady in the unhappy love affair mentioned above. They meet, and begin to make up for lost time in their relationship.
    The traditional main villain is killed well before the end of the story, a younger villain who had arranged this taking his place and who has a plan to kill major parts of the population of the world by some sort of vague scientific method. This villain kidnaps Bond’s daughter, obliging him to trail the villain to his base (full of tunnels and strange rooms) where they face each other for the first time in the movie followed by a lot of fighting, inc. Bond with a machine gun at some point.
    Bond dies when the villain's lair explodes at the end of the story, other major characters also die during the film, though the world is saved.
    A well-known beautiful love song (not the title song) is prominent in the score, both vocally and instrumentally. The film has a long and troubled production, with at least one major director starting but not finishing the job. More writers than usual (some have worked on Bond films before, some haven’t) including a young recently acclaimed comedy writer are involved with the script, which takes only a little of Fleming as inspiration.
    Sound like any recent film we’ve all seen? Of course it does, but it also refers to a Bond film over 50 years ago. It is, of course, "Casino Royale"... the 1967 version.'

    Y'know, when they put it like that... ;)
  • Well, they'd already exhausted all the good ideas they could from Austin Powers by the time they got to Craig's last one so they had to pull from somewhere...
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,534
    :)) Awesome. I’ve still never seen CR67.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,134
    I still haven’t seen CR67. I’ll probably die before I ever have my retinas exposed to it.
  • I still haven’t seen CR67. I’ll probably die before I ever have my retinas exposed to it.

    If you saw NTTD, you basically have seen CR67.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 2022 Posts: 3,134
    If you saw NTTD, you basically have seen CR67.
    It seems so! :))
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,134
    Guess I’ll just have to mark that film as “watched”!
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,534
    Should I go put it in the Bond Movie Meter thread, after having read the above synopsis? ;)
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