NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

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  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Yes, that is what I said.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,178
    Everyone likes to play victim. That's how the internet works.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    Everyone likes to play victim. That's how the internet works.

    At least in this forum we play victim without a hashtag. That's what makes us cool.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2022 Posts: 7,546
    #BondFansAreMean

    Anyways, given some distance from the opening of NTTD, I still find it highly rewatchable, even though I find the end to drag a bit. No different than Craig’s other entries (sans QOS).

    Strictly on a rewatchability basis my Craig ranking would be:
    QOS: You can pop this little bugger on on a lunch break. Bonds best casual fits. I like the plot.
    SP: Overall a missed opportunity but the components are very fun and very Bond. Doesn’t feel it’s runtime because I’m always looking forward to the next bit. Except the Q hotel room scene… dreadful.
    CR: Craig’s best film, but a bit of a saga. Not a casual pop on a Bond film type movie.
    NTTD: could jostle positions with CR. First two thirds are ripping, Safin brings down the end (among other things).
    SF: Too precious and careful to be fun. Overengineered for Bond’s 50th; I can’t help but find it boring to watch if expertly made.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 24,157
    #BondFansAreMean

    #FireBabs
    #LetUsWriteScripts
    #Turner4Bond
    #TurnerNotBond
    #ICanDoThisAllDay

    ;-)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,178
    #BringBackPierce

    j/k, I don’t want a geriatric Bond.
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    edited October 2022 Posts: 3,787
    Others I would add:

    #Underrated/Overrated (Type a Bond film here)
    #ItsTheWorstBondFilm
    #PretendingToHaveReadTheBooksToCriticizeSomething
    #PretendingToBeARealBondFan
    #TheWorstBondActor
    #HenryCavill4Bond


    And now......

    #BondFansNextToStarWarsFans
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    Apologies if this is the wrong thread
    Has it ever been confirmed if Heracles was initially a virus? Rather than it being Nanobots?
  • SIS_HQSIS_HQ At the Vauxhall Headquarters
    Posts: 3,787
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Apologies if this is the wrong thread
    Has it ever been confirmed if Heracles was initially a virus? Rather than it being Nanobots?

    It's a nanobots, there's no indication in the film that it's a virus (which in my opinion would have been much better).
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,178
    If we’re to believe Purvis & Wade, they’ve had the nanobots idea already in place before Danny Boyle came in with his own script. After he left, the writers came back on board and simply dusted off that nanobot plot device.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Apologies if this is the wrong thread
    Has it ever been confirmed if Heracles was initially a virus? Rather than it being Nanobots?

    It's a nanobots, there's no indication in the film that it's a virus (which in my opinion would have been much better).

    I think he's asking if in the storywriting process, if Heracles was a virus before it was nanobots; not in the film itself.

    Unfortunately I have no insight on the matter.
  • ImpertinentGoonImpertinentGoon Everybody needs a hobby.
    Posts: 1,351
    007HallY wrote: »

    And then he suddenly has an army of balaclava-wearing henchmen on his island, plus a farm and a factory (whatever the hell that is supposed to be). Again, I've said this before, but I think the henchmen in the finale should have been other soldiers from a different country or from some other criminal organization that Safin manipulated - maybe SPECTRE remnants - into working towards his aims (protecting him, killing Bond). They even could have done a whole thing about parasitic plants that latch onto a host plant and get all their resources through that until it dies and then carries on.

    I love the idea of Safin's men being SPECTRE remnants. To be fair I guess Primo is when you think about it, but he's just a lone wolf of sorts. It would have been interesting if the film had specifically said that Safin had made a deal or something with the remaining SPECTRE agents not to hurt them or their family with the nanobots if they helped him. Like they're being held hostage almost. It would have given this idea that Safin is a man slowly morphing from a man out for revenge into this maniacal villain, one who has created this little 'kingdom' for himself (so not unlike Blofeld with his Garden of Death in YOLT). It might have made him a bit more tragic if anything too, seeing what revenge can do to a man.

    Interesting. Could be new headcanon, that Primo brought all those guys over. Don't they say in the film that he is also taking the island back from SPECTRE after Blofeld/White had originally taken it from his family? So Ash recruiting Primo is not just their already large organization gaining one guy with a funky eye, it's them basically picking the remains of at least a part of SPECTRE off of the trash heap.
    (On the other hand, if Primo is the key to such a large part of the organization, why wasn't he in the DNA database and died in Cuba?
    On the other, other hand, maybe he really is the most senior person who didn't die there. As main henchmen, he would possibly be the department head for faceless brutes and everyone above him died.
    On the third hand [this is getting dumb] why didn't he strike out on his own, if he controlled the goon army? Maybe he didn't have the money?)
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Apologies if this is the wrong thread
    Has it ever been confirmed if Heracles was initially a virus? Rather than it being Nanobots?

    It's a nanobots, there's no indication in the film that it's a virus (which in my opinion would have been much better).

    I think he's asking if in the storywriting process, if Heracles was a virus before it was nanobots; not in the film itself.

    Unfortunately I have no insight on the matter.

    Yeah that's exactly what I meant mate, thank you.

    I was curious to see if during production, perhaps even during the filming, was Heracles ever a virus? The plot seemed more suited and grounded in a virus rather than nanobots but it was decided to change it given the real world pandemic
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Apologies if this is the wrong thread
    Has it ever been confirmed if Heracles was initially a virus? Rather than it being Nanobots?

    It's a nanobots, there's no indication in the film that it's a virus (which in my opinion would have been much better).

    I think he's asking if in the storywriting process, if Heracles was a virus before it was nanobots; not in the film itself.

    Unfortunately I have no insight on the matter.

    Yeah that's exactly what I meant mate, thank you.

    I was curious to see if during production, perhaps even during the filming, was Heracles ever a virus? The plot seemed more suited and grounded in a virus rather than nanobots but it was decided to change it given the real world pandemic

    Agreed, that was my thought as well with regards to the possible change. For what it's worth, I think I would have preferred an organic virus rather than nanobots. Either way, it was a bit of a contrivance to get the ending they wanted.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    That's how I feel as well mate.

    One thing I loved about NTTD was the breakneck speed of the chase in Matera, the DB5 seems to be getting pushed to it's limit.
    It was a huge improvement on the chase in SP in my opinion
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2022 Posts: 7,546
    Oh man, massive improvement to SP's chase (which I don't hate). One of the best in the franchise IMO. Especially that courtyard scene where they're slamming the car with bullets and Craig switches on the miniguns and spins with the smoke... amazing.

    My cousin was there in Rome when they were filming that chase for SP... very jealous.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited October 2022 Posts: 1,983
    The DB5 chase, like the entire Matera sequence is great with Zimmer's score adding to the intensity. It reminds me of the action scenes in QoS. Pulsating and right in one's face.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,546
    I do wish it incorporated the Bond Theme in the same way it did in the trailer though, for me that was all that was missing.
    I don't know if I'm super infatuated with Zimmer's score TBH. Didn't feel extremely original, or like it identified as a Bond score. Cuba Chase is definitely my favourite song, and I'll Be Right Back is also great, but feels like a Zimmer score more than a Bond score, if that makes sense.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,275
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    MI6HQ wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Apologies if this is the wrong thread
    Has it ever been confirmed if Heracles was initially a virus? Rather than it being Nanobots?

    It's a nanobots, there's no indication in the film that it's a virus (which in my opinion would have been much better).

    I think he's asking if in the storywriting process, if Heracles was a virus before it was nanobots; not in the film itself.

    Unfortunately I have no insight on the matter.

    Yeah that's exactly what I meant mate, thank you.

    I was curious to see if during production, perhaps even during the filming, was Heracles ever a virus? The plot seemed more suited and grounded in a virus rather than nanobots but it was decided to change it given the real world pandemic

    No. There wasn't enough time to change it.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,983
    I do wish it incorporated the Bond Theme in the same way it did in the trailer though, for me that was all that was missing.
    I don't know if I'm super infatuated with Zimmer's score TBH. Didn't feel extremely original, or like it identified as a Bond score. Cuba Chase is definitely my favourite song, and I'll Be Right Back is also great, but feels like a Zimmer score more than a Bond score, if that makes sense.

    Yeah, I'm surprised the bike jump was without the triumphant section of the Bond theme. But I still think Message From An Old Friend is a top Bond action track, as it has lots of guitar in it, with snippets of the Bond theme. But yeah, Zimmer could have done better with the entire score for sure, but he had no time...coupled with the fact that his heart was really in Dune and he poured all his musical ideas of 2021 there, as seen with the Oscar win. But for Zimmer to come up with something like that in such a short time is worthy of praise, because Dan Romer had ample time, but couldn't make Michael & Barbara happy.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited October 2022 Posts: 7,546
    Oh yeah, Message from an Old Friend is great too, good call.

    Shouldn't We Get To Know Eachother is an intriguing piece as well. And we have Back to MI6 and Good To Have You Back for some classic Bond fare. Maybe I spoke too soon.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,983
    Oh yeah, Message from an Old Friend is great too, good call.

    Shouldn't We Get To Know Eachother is an intriguing piece as well. And we have Back to MI6 and Good To Have You Back for some classic Bond fare. Maybe I spoke too soon.

    Hahaha. It happens. It's a cool score. But being Zimmer, we expected more. There's still plenty of music that's in the film, but not in the score. I think once the score's Record Sessions is released, the score would be more appreciated.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,205
    I really like the cue where the warship launches the missiles and we see Bond moving through the bunker, ending with him finding the teddy bear. Hoping that gets released eventually.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    Posts: 1,983
    I really like the cue where the warship launches the missiles and we see Bond moving through the bunker, ending with him finding the teddy bear. Hoping that gets released eventually.

    Exactly. Very Barry when the missiles are about to launch. Also, the cue when Bond and Obruchev are about to board a plane to leave Cuba. The cue when M sits down and looks at the pictures of previous Ms, right till when he speaks to Nomi on phone, very Arnoldesque. A whole lot of other cues too.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,546
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    Apologies if this is the wrong thread
    Has it ever been confirmed if Heracles was initially a virus? Rather than it being Nanobots?
    (From issue #65 of MI6 Confidential):

    The concept for what Heracles actually was changed during the design phase, but throughout, Fukunaga's main direction was the Heracles weapon should be absolutely creepy. "It started off as a toxin. And then it became a sort of nanobot that delivered the toxin. And then it became that the nanobot itself was the killer."

    More details, design talk and nanobot concept art can be seen in the magazine.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,641
    That's interesting, cheers for digging the quote out mate @QBranch

    One thing I didn't like about NTTD on first viewing, was it felt like a greater time jump than 5 years. The nanobots plot was a big reason for that. It felt to me that was a bit too fantastical for this version of Bond, as did the magnets part, the bionic eye and the stealthy bird plane.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited October 2022 Posts: 3,147
    Agreed, Jordo - I thought some of that stuff was more suited to Pierce's era than Dan's. I include Obruchev in that, too!
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,573
    I loved the scene where Bond flips the switch in the DB5 and the mines come out from the bottom. I think it's because I knew the DB5 had the gadgets, especially the mini guns as seen in the trailer but I wasn't expecting more explosive gadgets so I definitely smiled when he drops the mines and the car explodes.
  • SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷SecretAgentMan⁰⁰⁷ Lekki, Lagos, Nigeria
    edited October 2022 Posts: 1,983
    I loved the scene where Bond flips the switch in the DB5 and the mines come out from the bottom. I think it's because I knew the DB5 had the gadgets, especially the mini guns as seen in the trailer but I wasn't expecting more explosive gadgets so I definitely smiled when he drops the mines and the car explodes.

    Agreed. I also love Craig's Bond serious facial expression immediately he spots the car coming and Zimmer's music of course, having guitars in it to replace the Bond theme when he does that Bondian thing. I also love the way Craig's Bond bends his head and drives off for the car to explode.
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,546
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    That's interesting, cheers for digging the quote out mate @QBranch

    One thing I didn't like about NTTD on first viewing, was it felt like a greater time jump than 5 years. The nanobots plot was a big reason for that. It felt to me that was a bit too fantastical for this version of Bond, as did the magnets part, the bionic eye and the stealthy bird plane.
    No worries mate! Some of the early concept art shows the nanobots as half organic, half machine with long, thin spurred legs at the rear like that of a grasshopper. They do look a bit ominous, some sharing design cues with that of the Matrix 'squiddy' sentinels.

    I welcome the more fantastic, sci-fi style tech in these films.

    Regarding the DB5, I had seen the mines back in 2019 but for a long time wasn't sure how they were deployed. Could've been dropped from behind the glider sub. I wish they had've saved the minigun feature for the film and not shown such a wow-factor moment in the trailers.
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