NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - First Reactions vs. Current Reactions

1190191193195196298

Comments

  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Slide_99 still posts and tries to argue, although he has not seen the movies and won't. So we might ignore him, I suppose.
  • I'm still looking for the 'ignore' or 'block' feature on this forum to spare me a headache or 2.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    I'm still looking for the 'ignore' or 'block' feature on this forum to spare me a headache or 2.

    'That would be the job of our mods.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    It's not something even the mods can do I don't think, it's a platform issue.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,684
    I'm still looking for the 'ignore' or 'block' feature on this forum to spare me a headache or 2.

    'That would be the job of our mods.

    That's an admin job, not mods. We don't have control over adding such features.

    In the meantime, I'm honestly not sure why people still complain about certain users yet rush to reply to every post they make. Just ignore them. It's that simple.

    This rings especially true for those who are hating on NTTD but haven't even seen the film - why bother continuing to press them or craft arguments and debates with them? They've not seen it so their opinions are entirely irrelevant on the matter. Move on and don't reply, they'll stop eventually once they realize they're shouting into the void and not getting anybody worked up enough to engage them.
  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    I'm still looking for the 'ignore' or 'block' feature on this forum to spare me a headache or 2.

    'That would be the job of our mods.

    That's an admin job, not mods. We don't have control over adding such features.

    In the meantime, I'm honestly not sure why people still complain about certain users yet rush to reply to every post they make. Just ignore them. It's that simple.

    This rings especially true for those who are hating on NTTD but haven't even seen the film - why bother continuing to press them or craft arguments and debates with them? They've not seen it so their opinions are entirely irrelevant on the matter. Move on and don't reply, they'll stop eventually once they realize they're shouting into the void and not getting anybody worked up enough to engage them.

    Sorry, yes, I meant admin.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,624
    I sort of wish Madeline had told Bond Mathilde is yours, although I completely understand why she didn't. But I think the emotional punch would have been even greater later on
    Ironically it felt like the producers flirted with the idea but didn't commit to it
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    edited November 2021 Posts: 735
    Feyador wrote: »
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    Now we are both poisoned with heartbreak. Two heroes in a tragedy of our own making. Anyone we touch, we are their curse. A stroke to their cheek, a kiss, would kill them instantly. Yes, Madeline. Yes, Mathilde.

    I know most people are going to tell me I’m wrong, but the way I look at it is that Bond was poisoned with more than just Madeline & Mathilde’s DNA. This justifies his decision to stay on the island even greater. It’s possible that tiny little vial also had the DNA of other individuals as well, not just Madeline & Mathilde. They were just the icing on top. If he did leave, he would be a walking bioweapon to all civilization.

    On the other hand, I think he knew he wouldn’t make it out in time given the bullet wounds he sustained. Look at how long it took him to climb the flight of stairs back to the control room. Imagine how long it would’ve taken him to go back down to the tunnels, and all the way back down to the sub pen where the glider was (assuming that was the escape route).

    Absolutely correct!

    Nanobots or no Nanobots, Bond was not getting off that island.

    About the line: "Anyone we touch, we are their curse."

    Not exactly, at least not to me, but that line is very much doing double duty. It literally refers to both Madeleine & Mathilde, but it also figuratively refers to all those, especially women, who have not survived their relationship with Bond. The nanobots may be dodgy science, I don't know, but they do function well as a metaphor - at least in this instance.
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I sort of wish Madeline had told Bond Mathilde is yours, although I completely understand why she didn't. But I think the emotional punch would have been even greater later on
    Ironically it felt like the producers flirted with the idea but didn't commit to it

    "She does have your eyes," Madeleine says; and Bond responds with his dying words, "I know ... I know ...."

    So I think Bond knew all along that Mathilde was his child without Madeleine having to say it. His not having insisted on any claim to Mathilde was perhaps his way of respecting Madeleine's position of having raised Mathilde alone. But also, like any man who's just learned that he has a child, he probably hasn't gotten his head around it yet - as when he hesitantly and then barely mutters the words "my .... family" when introducing Madeleine & Mathilde to Nomi (if I recall correctly), as if understanding the meaning of those words himself for the first time.

    I think the writers were holding out for maximum emotional impact, in that in his dying moments Bond is - to my eyes - clearly embracing the consolation that he is, in fact, leaving something very meaningful behind - his child Mathilde, who is also, figuratively speaking, the manifestation of the very legacy of the Craig-Bond character.

    Which is why the ending is not only not depressing but deeply real, in a sense, and even quite celebratory. As someone noted earlier [forgive me, I forget who]: it may have been 'friendly fire' that was taking Bond out as he stands erect on that rooftop, but it’s also filmed in such a way as if that 'friendly fire' were, instead, 'fireworks,' of a kind, in honour of the man & his legacy.

    What had Safin said earlier, "Life is all about what we leave behind"? Turns out he's right - especially for a man like Bond, who had been "living off the grid" without family or any emotional attachments at all ...

    So I can't imagine any greater final consolation for him - and to my eyes, it all worked quite beautifully.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,624
    You've made some good points @Feyador mate

    For me I just didn't buy into Bond and Madeline's love, therefore the writers cemented it with a child. I just wish it felt earned instead of being a plot point.
    If Bond could leave Swann behind without a second thought in the PTS, it's hard to believe he'd die for her, but Bond's child on the other hand adds more weight

    The child actors for both young Madeline and Mathilde were fantastic, they deserve some praise too
  • Jordo007 wrote: »

    If Bond could leave Swann behind without a second thought in the PTS [snip]

    He thought she was involved with the exploding tomb....

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    Jordo007 wrote: »

    If Bond could leave Swann behind without a second thought in the PTS [snip]

    He thought she was involved with the exploding tomb....

    Yep. He specifically says he regrets putting her on the train.
  • FeyadorFeyador Montreal, Canada
    Posts: 735
    Jordo007 wrote: »

    If Bond could leave Swann behind without a second thought in the PTS [snip]

    He thought she was involved with the exploding tomb....

    Right, his misplaced anger got the best of him and he lived to regret it, which is perfectly in keeping with his "Craig-Bond" character.

    There's no right or wrong answer, of course.

    I know a lot of fans don't, and never did, buy into the Bond-Madeleine relationship. But I was into it from SP and was not surprised to see the filmmakers double down on it with NTTD. Maybe it's something to do with Léa's tears in NTTD & her sexy voice & inexpresively beautiful eyes - but that scene on the train in SP where she & Bond seemed to understand each other instinctively suggested to me that this would (and perhaps 'should') not be a relationship too easily discarded.

    Or maybe I'm just too easy ...

    I do feel the Mathilde character is an organic part of NTTD, and not just a convenient plot device. Her presence in the film is set up beautifully by the PTS and payoffs wonderfully in the end - but even during the Norway chase, I found myself emotionally invested in the outcome in ways I have never been before during a Bondian action sequence. It even feels worlds away from the Cuba scene, where no real stakes seemed involved at all - just pure fantasy. And if I have a serious criticism with the film, it's with both the Safin character plus the tonal inconsistencies in the movie. Just comparing those two action scenes is instructive, I think - they're almost from different movies.
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    I absolutely love the lighting of Poison Island with the sunset providing some of the light in certain scenes.. Just beautiful IMO.

    51680183142_b6d76ea761_b.jpg
    51680979326_f16971dc27_b.jpg
  • imranbecksimranbecks Singapore
    Posts: 972
    Jordo007 wrote: »

    If Bond could leave Swann behind without a second thought in the PTS [snip]

    He thought she was involved with the exploding tomb....

    That and the fact that he felt he was betrayed yet again for the woman he loves just like what Vesper did to Bond in Venice. Actually right after the tomb explosion, he tried calling her, probably to tell her to get to safety as Spectre is around. He did not think Madeleine was involved. But the whole "Madeleine is part of Spectre, she set me up and she's betrayed me like Vesper did" was probably running through his head the moment Primo said she is the daughter of Spectre. While in fact they were setting her up as well to get to Bond because Madeleine seemed just as clueless as to what was happening as evident to her reaction when he got back to the hotel and her reaction in the car while getting shot at. Alas trust was still an issue for Bond and feeling angry at the time, he felt the best thing to do was to put her on that train and part ways, never to see each other again. 5 years later he regrets this of course. It was in that moment of anger and confusion that he got rid of her while in Italy so he could disappear since Spectre clearly wanted him dead.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,102
    Feyador wrote: »
    Feyador wrote: »
    DonnyDB5 wrote: »
    Now we are both poisoned with heartbreak. Two heroes in a tragedy of our own making. Anyone we touch, we are their curse. A stroke to their cheek, a kiss, would kill them instantly. Yes, Madeline. Yes, Mathilde.

    I know most people are going to tell me I’m wrong, but the way I look at it is that Bond was poisoned with more than just Madeline & Mathilde’s DNA. This justifies his decision to stay on the island even greater. It’s possible that tiny little vial also had the DNA of other individuals as well, not just Madeline & Mathilde. They were just the icing on top. If he did leave, he would be a walking bioweapon to all civilization.

    On the other hand, I think he knew he wouldn’t make it out in time given the bullet wounds he sustained. Look at how long it took him to climb the flight of stairs back to the control room. Imagine how long it would’ve taken him to go back down to the tunnels, and all the way back down to the sub pen where the glider was (assuming that was the escape route).

    Absolutely correct!

    Nanobots or no Nanobots, Bond was not getting off that island.

    About the line: "Anyone we touch, we are their curse."

    Not exactly, at least not to me, but that line is very much doing double duty. It literally refers to both Madeleine & Mathilde, but it also figuratively refers to all those, especially women, who have not survived their relationship with Bond. The nanobots may be dodgy science, I don't know, but they do function well as a metaphor - at least in this instance.
    Jordo007 wrote: »
    I sort of wish Madeline had told Bond Mathilde is yours, although I completely understand why she didn't. But I think the emotional punch would have been even greater later on
    Ironically it felt like the producers flirted with the idea but didn't commit to it

    "She does have your eyes," Madeleine says; and Bond responds with his dying words, "I know ... I know ...."

    So I think Bond knew all along that Mathilde was his child without Madeleine having to say it. His not having insisted on any claim to Mathilde was perhaps his way of respecting Madeleine's position of having raised Mathilde alone. But also, like any man who's just learned that he has a child, he probably hasn't gotten his head around it yet - as when he hesitantly and then barely mutters the words "my .... family" when introducing Madeleine & Mathilde to Nomi (if I recall correctly), as if understanding the meaning of those words himself for the first time.

    I think the writers were holding out for maximum emotional impact, in that in his dying moments Bond is - to my eyes - clearly embracing the consolation that he is, in fact, leaving something very meaningful behind - his child Mathilde, who is also, figuratively speaking, the manifestation of the very legacy of the Craig-Bond character.

    Which is why the ending is not only not depressing but deeply real, in a sense, and even quite celebratory. As someone noted earlier [forgive me, I forget who]: it may have been 'friendly fire' that was taking Bond out as he stands erect on that rooftop, but it’s also filmed in such a way as if that 'friendly fire' were, instead, 'fireworks,' of a kind, in honour of the man & his legacy.

    What had Safin said earlier, "Life is all about what we leave behind"? Turns out he's right - especially for a man like Bond, who had been "living off the grid" without family or any emotional attachments at all ...

    So I can't imagine any greater final consolation for him - and to my eyes, it all worked quite beautifully.

    Wonderfully stated and I'm in total agreement; this wasn't depressing, but a celebration of the man, and his legacy that he leaves behind....
    Feyador wrote: »
    Jordo007 wrote: »

    If Bond could leave Swann behind without a second thought in the PTS [snip]

    He thought she was involved with the exploding tomb....

    Right, his misplaced anger got the best of him and he lived to regret it, which is perfectly in keeping with his "Craig-Bond" character.

    There's no right or wrong answer, of course.

    I know a lot of fans don't, and never did, buy into the Bond-Madeleine relationship. But I was into it from SP and was not surprised to see the filmmakers double down on it with NTTD. Maybe it's something to do with Léa's tears in NTTD & her sexy voice & inexpresively beautiful eyes - but that scene on the train in SP where she & Bond seemed to understand each other instinctively suggested to me that this would (and perhaps 'should') not be a relationship too easily discarded.

    Or maybe I'm just too easy ...

    I do feel the Mathilde character is an organic part of NTTD, and not just a convenient plot device. Her presence in the film is set up beautifully by the PTS and payoffs wonderfully in the end - but even during the Norway chase, I found myself emotionally invested in the outcome in ways I have never been before during a Bondian action sequence. It even feels worlds away from the Cuba scene, where no real stakes seemed involved at all - just pure fantasy. And if I have a serious criticism with the film, it's with both the Safin character plus the tonal inconsistencies in the movie. Just comparing those two action scenes is instructive, I think - they're almost from different movies.

    I wasn't a fan of their romance in Spectre, @Feyador ...but in their very first scene in NTTD, I was sucked right in and did believe this was a genuine couple dancing in the glow of the "honeymoon" phase. They were loving and passionate. And much of my belief resides in Lea's performance. She was a wonderful gut punch to me emotionally. To me, she has now joined the Mount Olympus of Bond Women, previously only occupied by Tracy and Vesper.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    Agree with you both @Peter and @Feyador
  • Posts: 372
    Well said. The movie is extremely well written, and I don't mind the tonal shifts like the Cuba scene, I like that the tone goes up and down. NTTD makes almost Spectre rewatchable, at last for the Lea Seydoux moments.

    I also in place of Bond, would have strangled Blofeld for messing up my life again.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    Stamper wrote: »
    Well said. The movie is extremely well written, and I don't mind the tonal shifts like the Cuba scene, I like that the tone goes up and down. NTTD makes almost Spectre rewatchable, at last for the Lea Seydoux moments.

    I also in place of Bond, would have strangled Blofeld for messing up my life again.

    I mentioned it earlier somewhere but I kind of like the idea of Spectre as a prequel to NTTD, than NTTD as a sequel to Spectre, which probably makes no sense... but the concept of NTTD introducing these characters to us, and then seeing them in Spectre (how Bond and Madeleine met, Blofeld in his prime, etc.) feels like a cool way to experience the films to me.
  • OOWolfOOWolf Savannah
    Posts: 140
    Stamper wrote: »
    Well said. The movie is extremely well written, and I don't mind the tonal shifts like the Cuba scene, I like that the tone goes up and down. NTTD makes almost Spectre rewatchable, at last for the Lea Seydoux moments.

    I also in place of Bond, would have strangled Blofeld for messing up my life again.

    Guess everyone has their own definition of "good writing." If SPECTRE had been well-written, it wouldn't have needed NTTD. The whole mumbo jumbo about there being more story to tell was exactly that -mumbo jumbo.

    The producers would never admit to this, but Craig's tenure has been greatly McGyvered. There are tonal shifts because there were 5 or 6 writers involved, massive rewrites, change in directors...

    The scale and cinematography of the film are used as devices to cover up the inconsistencies. It goes from a fairly tight action thriller to a melodrama, all for the sake of tying up loose ends, yet keeping so many things loose and unclear in the screenplay.

    Has anyone bothered to wonder why Mathilde would randomly talk about "mosquito bites" while they were in pursuit? A kid being a kid? Yeah, right...
  • DonnyDB5DonnyDB5 Buffalo, New York
    Posts: 1,755
    Has anyone bothered to wonder why Mathilde would randomly talk about "mosquito bites" while they were in pursuit? A kid being a kid? Yeah, right...

    I think this was discussed actually. It’s a subtle allusion to Heracles, and an insidious reminder that even a simple mosquito bite could be fatal if that mosquito had bitten another individual with the nano bots.
  • Posts: 12,369
    While I don't think NTTD made SP that much better in hindsight (granted I haven't watched SP again since seeing NTTD twice), I found it to be a perfect 180 from it in every way. Bond's killing of Blofeld and Safin vs. the ending with Blofeld in SP, the heartbreak vs. "happy ending," FAR more convincing relationship with Bond and Madeleine, and 1000x better / more blood-pumping action in NTTD. I for one am so glad we got this instead of SP as the ending to Craig's movies; while I'm all for the standalone approach moving forward, it was nice to see every single thing tied up here that wasn't really as satisfied in SP.
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,527
    I love them both, and personally don't feel either needs the other. Certainly happy we got NTTD though, of course.
  • NicNacNicNac Administrator, Moderator
    Posts: 7,574
    I'm still looking for the 'ignore' or 'block' feature on this forum to spare me a headache or 2.

    It's doubtful we will ever go down that route. If you are having particular problems with certain members' opinions you can ignore those members. Or if they are clearly breaking the rules flag the post and a mods will pick it up and if necessary, wade in with their size 10s.

    Offering the option to block or ignore will spare you the head ache but create bigger ones for the mods.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,624
    Fair point on the romance guys, maybe it'll get better for me on repeat viewings

    I love Lea's acting on the train and in the DB5. You really feel the desperation and fear, she's a brilliant actor. A little moment I noticed on my last viewing was how she held onto Bond when he tried to usher on the train, such a subtle tiny moment that says so much.
  • Posts: 1,048
    They were good together, but I did find the bit where SPECTRE were shooting the DB5's windows a little confusing. Why was Bond not doing anything until Maddy pleaded with him? For a while he just sits there, brooding. Were we supposed to think he was going to sit there and let them shoot them?
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,727
    They were good together, but I did find the bit where SPECTRE were shooting the DB5's windows a little confusing. Why was Bond not doing anything until Maddy pleaded with him? For a while he just sits there, brooding. Were we supposed to think he was going to sit there and let them shoot them?

    That's actually my favorite part of the film. All downhill from there :D

    (I don't hate NTTD, but Matera and it's action climax did feel like the highlight to me...)
  • They were good together, but I did find the bit where SPECTRE were shooting the DB5's windows a little confusing. Why was Bond not doing anything until Maddy pleaded with him? For a while he just sits there, brooding. Were we supposed to think he was going to sit there and let them shoot them?

    I think we’re supposed to think “what is he going to do?”. He’s seething with rage and trapped in a car with a woman he thinks has betrayed him (right after he finally got over Vesper). So, I was wondering where his head was at, and what he’s going to do next. That plus the danger of the window finally giving in made it a very tense scene for me. Loved it.
  • donnydracodonnydraco America
    Posts: 16
    They were good together, but I did find the bit where SPECTRE were shooting the DB5's windows a little confusing. Why was Bond not doing anything until Maddy pleaded with him? For a while he just sits there, brooding. Were we supposed to think he was going to sit there and let them shoot them?

    I think we’re supposed to think “what is he going to do?”. He’s seething with rage and trapped in a car with a woman he thinks has betrayed him (right after he finally got over Vesper). So, I was wondering where his head was at, and what he’s going to do next. That plus the danger of the window finally giving in made it a very tense scene for me. Loved it.

    It's my favorite scene in the film, mirroring that fantastic moment in OHMSS when the pursued Bond finally surrenders himself to the bench by the rink, resigned to his fate.
  • Posts: 372
    This was a fantastic moment. We need to heads up in the comments, because if EON only read about people not understanding any of the film, complaining there's elements missing that would make it an 8 hour mini-series of people endlessly talking, crying like spoiled childs who dislike anything else than a happy ending, they will end up just throwing the franchise to the sharks, and leave it as that, not taking any risk anymore, when the Craig era has finally put the series back in it's tracks, even if Spectre was partly a miss.

    I don't want Moore style back, I don't want single mission where Bond doesn't arc, I don't want people messing their pants at a glimpse of any actor in a suit or smoking with a gun, screaming "there! that's the new Bond! he's perfect!". Bond is not a coat hanger with a gun and a Martini Vodka in the other hand anymore. He is a full fleshed human being like in the novels, and we must have the journey continuing.

    So what if he apparently died here. He also died in FRWL and in YOLT, but then he came back.

    James Bond Will Return!
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,102
    I took it as a moment where Bond considered letting himself with Madeline get killed. At that moment he’s at his lowest, and it’s only when he looks into her eyes as she’s appealing to him that he decides to spare themselves but cut her off as soon as they’re safe.
Sign In or Register to comment.