NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Discuss Hans Zimmer's Score

1122123125127128151

Comments

  • lechiffre2lechiffre2 Netherlands
    Posts: 4
    delfloria wrote: »
    lechiffre2 wrote: »
    Yeah we've been talking about how obvious and manipulative it is.

    There is a special place in hell reserved for you

    Agree. Filmmaking IS manipulation and they are using musical quotes that ONLY Eon can use and I'm glad they did.

    My comment was of course figuratively speaking ;-)

    Thanks to the lovely people on this forum I got to listen the whole soundtrack this afternoon. What an experience. We're in for a treat people!
  • Bad_TigerBad_Tiger Somewhere over Kansas
    Posts: 12
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Meanwhile wrote: »
    But the Barry quotes belong to other characters and eras
    Like the Magnificent Seven theme Barry used in MR belonged to Yul Brynner. I had no problem with that. And I think it's nice that Zimmer is working within the parameters of the series. Clearly the score isn't the only OHMSS connection.

    I'm not surprised the OHMSS bits are in there, given Zimmer's established love for that score. I can understand those who see it as manipulative, but at least the quote of WHATTITW fits the storyline (Bond being with a woman who he believes can be a lifetime partner). Compare that to the "Rise of Skywalker," where John Williams shoehorns the "Yoda" and "Luke and Leia" themes into the finale, even though the finale has nothing to do with those characters.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 2021 Posts: 15,186
    Meanwhile wrote: »
    It’s amazing how easy it is to trigger people over the Barry fanservice issue. It’s a part of the larger division between future-forward Bond fans and Bond fans who need to continually relive the old movies in the new movies - and then those who coexist which seems kinda rare.

    One can feel both. For example, I eventually came around to the reintroduction of Blofeld even though my faith in EON was let down in the final product. He has always been weakly portrayed in the vast majority of Bond media compared to Fleming’s character of surprisingly successful (and rare) portrayals. I thought Craig’s Bond was better served making something new out of Quantum. It wasn’t meant to be.

    But the Barry quotes belong to other characters and eras, like Tracy Bond of course. I like Madeleine, but she’s no Countess Theresa - just the same as Vesper wasn’t, Kara, so on. And OHMSS is a stellar title song, not a boring low-key thing to bum when presumably Blofeld is on screen. If I’m wrong and it really works, I’ll eat my words of course. Just going from my listening experience.

    I think it's nice to hear them -they're John Barry after all so obviously they're amazing- but it does maybe feel like cheating a little bit. But then, I can also see how cheating doesn't actually matter as long as you get a good score.
    But then on the other hand people complain about Spectre reusing Skyfall themes. One is bad and one is good, go figure! :)

    To me, neither feel like the end of the world and I accept these OHMSS quotes even if I think I would have preferred an original score. It's interesting to note that there are a few themes in this score, but uniquely the score composer hasn't written any of them!
  • edited September 2021 Posts: 3,169
    The middle segment of the track 'I'll be right back' carries the same vibe as this (from 02:12):
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    Meanwhile wrote: »
    But the Barry quotes belong to other characters and eras, like Tracy Bond of course. I like Madeleine, but she’s no Countess Theresa - just the same as Vesper wasn’t, Kara, so on. And OHMSS is a stellar title song, not a boring low-key thing to bum when presumably Blofeld is on screen. If I’m wrong and it really works, I’ll eat my words of course. Just going from my listening experience.

    That’s my thing. Prior to this, I have always gone with the mindset that Madeleine shouldn’t be compared to Tracy because she should stand on her own, and Newman even gave her a lovely theme in SP that could have been brought back and solidified as something belonging to her, much like Vesper’s theme carried over from CR to QOS. Just quoting the Armstrong song is lazy low hanging fruit.

    I do think if the OHMSS theme had to make a comeback, it should have been for SP, as the trailers indicated. So it’s weird that we only just get it NOW on the last stretch when Blofeld is in prison.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Zekidk wrote: »
    The middle segment of the track 'I'll be right back' carries the same vibe as this (from 02:12):

    Listen to this Zimmer piece from 3:00.

  • Posts: 1,314
    Film music is emotional manipulation.

    I love the use of those two cues from ohmss. I’d like them to delve into the archives a bit more tbh. A little mango tree, 007, Mojave club…
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Film music is emotional manipulation.

    I love the use of those two cues from ohmss. I’d like them to delve into the archives a bit more tbh. A little mango tree, 007, Mojave club…

    Sure, but using Tracy’s theme, which has never been associated with Madeleine can be considered a cheap move.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    Posts: 1,165
    It is emotional manipulation.

    I'm also okay with that. :)
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited September 2021 Posts: 8,029
    It’s all manipulative, sure, but some are more lazy than others. Just because Zimmer throws a Barry quote doesn’t mean it’s automatically a great choice.

    This is what recent Star Wars had been criticized for its use of Easter eggs as if to nudge fans “YOU SEE THAT???”
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    All this noise over a 30 second homage within a great, fresh, brand new score. Cool.
  • Having listened to this through, I'll give this my $0.02 on some of my favorite tracks.

    Matera
    Probably the most overtly Barryesque part of the score. I actually really enjoy the WHATTITW quote, and I think it's an appropriate little nod that probably doesn't mean much to the average viewer but says a lot with a little for the fans.

    Message From An Old Friend
    I was really anxious to hear the first action track and this one was a ton of fun! Johnny Marr in my opinion gives this track and the following one a ton of personality. It's the perfect blend of a modern percussive action cue blended with that slick spy guitar sound (which I don't think we've gotten enough of). It is very fitting of Craig's Bond and indicative of the sound of this film.

    Square Escape
    A lot of the same feelings as the previous track. I really enjoyed the interpolation of the Bond theme with that really mean, growling sounding synth. It's quite simple but visceral and gets the adrenaline pumping.

    Someone Was Here
    One of my favorite tracks on the album. The lush, sweeping strings accented with the Bond vamp on the guitar is absolutely goosebump inducing and brings to mind all the great cinematography and landscape scenery the franchise has to offer. The middle section reminded me quite a bit of Newman's more ethereal work on Skyfall bit we pick back up again with a nice build at the end, once again the guitar work adds some flavor that is just hard to describe any other way than damn cool.

    Cuba Chase
    If this sequence is as fun to watch as this cue is to listen to then it'll be an absolute blast. Love the use of wailing horns and Latin flair, it's unashamedly bombastically Bondian without sounding like parody (which I unfortunately felt a lot with Arnold). It maintains all the menace and visceral aggressiveness of No Time to Die's other action cues with a very generous dollopp of flair and pizzazz, the wild trumpet solo is a highlight of the album for me and a really fantastic release in a franchise that has taken itself quite seriously musically over the past few films.

    Back to MI6
    I suspect this will be somewhat of a cathartic moment for the fans to here the Bond theme in its full glory here. This is NTTD's "Breadcrumbs" but meaner and punchier. It's the Bond theme that we all know and live but it sounds like Craig's Bond. Cool, dark, edgy, and brutal with the testosterone and swagger turned up to 11.

    Good To Have You Back
    Just about jumped out of my chair when I heard this one. A very stately and stoic rendition of OHMSS. I feel like it kind of misses the high pitched synth of "Journey to Blofeld's Hideaway" or even Marr playing the notes of the bassline to give it a little more flavor but all in all, it's nice to have this theme back.

    Lovely To See You Again
    The beginning of this track is straight out of Dunkirk with the ticking clock. Really nice to hear the piano melody from the theme reappear here. It's a really simple motif but one that is undeniably emotional and tender. This score may not be the best to listen to in isolation but I have no doubt it'll make me feel much more than the past few scores have in the context of the film.

    Home
    What a gorgeous track, again the title theme is the backbone of this one with such an epic, lush orchestration of the theme to open the piece, followed by maybe one of my favorite musical moments in the whole series. Those of us who have ventures into the spoiler territory probably have an idea of where this track fits into the story and the use of Billie's voice humming the melody of the theme is an absolute stroke of genius, this doesn't sound like something from a Bond film but I mean it in the best possible way. This one got me from left field...absolute chills. Also the way this track teases the payoff we get in "I'll Be Right Back"...*chef's kiss*

    I'll Be Right Back
    Starts off pretty inconspicuously with the typical build-up we've heard a lot of and then transitions into a very TDK trilogy sounding bit and then.... the lovely melody again. The strings swell up and we get the payoff we were teased at the end if "Home" with Billie's angelic vocals again. Very emotionally intense score by Zimmer and I'm absolutely here for it.

    Opening The Doors
    Really love what Zimmer does with the horns (they almost sound like they're physically tearing through the track) and synth here. Much of the same tense, meaning sound of the previous action tracks.

    Final Ascent
    Oh boy. I was expecting this one to be basically some epic interpolation of the the track, and we do get a bit of that towards the end but this one is really a journey itself. Obviously there's all sorts of speculation as to how t film ends but if this track is any indication we know that this will be an emotional send-off for the past 15 years of this franchise and you can really feel the weight of that in Final Ascent, it's truly the epic conclusion to this saga. It's a track that if I heard in isolation I'd never think it came from a Bond film but rather some emotionally dense biopic.

    No Time to Die
    I've already given my thoughts on the title theme, which I generally really like, but I think the song is really elevated within the context of this score. It's a little simple and doesn't quite leave the impression on its own the way Skyfall, You Know My Name, or even Another Way to Die did, but as a part of this score and the film's musical storytelling it really works. It's kind of interesting that in this age of hyper-commercialization they landed the hottest recording artist in the world at the time and ended up with a title song that functions so much more as an element of the film/score than a hit pop single. I think it is likely a product of A. Billie's minimalist aesthetic and B. Hans Zimmer's involvement in the making of the score AND title song.

    Overall, this is probably my favorite score of the Craig Era and probably my favorite since TLD. Is it the most intricate or complex musically? Maybe not, but it's visceral, cohesive, and full of heart while being unashamedly Bond and totally fitting Craig's portrayal like a glove. Very glad Hans Zimmer had an opportunity to put his stamp on the series and particularly on such a momentous film in the franchise.
  • DCisaredDCisared Liverpool
    Posts: 1,329
    It’s all manipulative, sure, but some are more lazy than others. Just because Zimmer throws a Barry quote doesn’t mean it’s automatically a great choice.

    This is what recent Star Wars had been criticized for its use of Easter eggs as if to nudge fans “YOU SEE THAT???”

    Logic is flawed mate. I take it you hate any film that isn't DR NO using the Bond theme then?
  • Posts: 250
    Themes can be redeployed; if it's in association with Bond in love and actually married I think that's sound - it's not Tracy's theme per se.

    To use some rather obvious examples, both the Star Wars theme and the Force theme were Luke's theme and Obi-Wan's theme to an extent in the original. If anything I wish this kind of thing was done more across the Bond films, particularly when you consider the richness of the Bond musical canon Barry alone provided.
  • FourDot wrote: »
    Themes can be redeployed; if it's in association with Bond in love and actually married I think that's sound - it's not Tracy's theme per se.

    To use some rather obvious examples, both the Star Wars theme and the Force theme were Luke's theme and Obi-Wan's theme to an extent in the original. If anything I wish this kind of thing was done more across the Bond films, particularly when you consider the richness of the Bond musical canon Barry alone provided.

    Agreed. I understand that reusing that cue isn’t particularly creative but I don’t think it’s “bad” or manipulative (and you could argue that all films scores are inherently manipulative). To me bad fan service is the Blofeld reveal in Spectre or the walk through memory lane in Q’s lab in DAD.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    DCisared wrote: »
    It’s all manipulative, sure, but some are more lazy than others. Just because Zimmer throws a Barry quote doesn’t mean it’s automatically a great choice.

    This is what recent Star Wars had been criticized for its use of Easter eggs as if to nudge fans “YOU SEE THAT???”

    Logic is flawed mate. I take it you hate any film that isn't DR NO using the Bond theme then?

    The Bond theme and a song that’s only been used for a single film over 50 years ago isn’t the same.

    The only other time that’s happened was with Barry’s very brief nod to LALD when Pepper notices Bond in TMWTGG.
  • To be fair they do it in OHMSS, QoS, and Skyfall/Spectre to an extent with the reused tracks.
  • Posts: 1,314
    DCisared wrote: »
    It’s all manipulative, sure, but some are more lazy than others. Just because Zimmer throws a Barry quote doesn’t mean it’s automatically a great choice.

    This is what recent Star Wars had been criticized for its use of Easter eggs as if to nudge fans “YOU SEE THAT???”

    Logic is flawed mate. I take it you hate any film that isn't DR NO using the Bond theme then?

    The Bond theme and a song that’s only been used for a single film over 50 years ago isn’t the same.

    The only other time that’s happened was with Barry’s very brief nod to LALD when Pepper notices Bond in TMWTGG.

    When bond goes through his desk in OHMSS we get bits of everything. Mango tree, FRWL, thunder ball…
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    Matt007 wrote: »
    DCisared wrote: »
    It’s all manipulative, sure, but some are more lazy than others. Just because Zimmer throws a Barry quote doesn’t mean it’s automatically a great choice.

    This is what recent Star Wars had been criticized for its use of Easter eggs as if to nudge fans “YOU SEE THAT???”

    Logic is flawed mate. I take it you hate any film that isn't DR NO using the Bond theme then?

    The Bond theme and a song that’s only been used for a single film over 50 years ago isn’t the same.

    The only other time that’s happened was with Barry’s very brief nod to LALD when Pepper notices Bond in TMWTGG.

    When bond goes through his desk in OHMSS we get bits of everything. Mango tree, FRWL, thunder ball…

    Needle drops by Peter Hunt, not an actual medley composed by Barry for the moment. But thanks for reminding me, because I dislike that moment as well. But then again I dislike the whole scene in general of Bond nostalgically looking back at collected items from past films. It was another hamfisted way of the filmmakers telling you “SEEE??? That’s the same Bond as Connery!”
  • familymottofamilymotto Spain
    edited September 2021 Posts: 24
    "Someone Was Here" is possibly one of the best Bond cues of all time. Period.

    Up there with the last minute or so of "Hamburg Break Out" from the TND Complete Soundtrack.

    Which by the way is (in my humble opinion) the best bit of Bond music ever written post Barry.
  • WHATTITW is a personal theme associated with Bond's relationship and love of Tracy and ultimately her tragic death. Doesn't sit with me with another Bond character.
  • NickThunderballsNickThunderballs Australia
    Posts: 133
    WHATTITW is a personal theme associated with Bond's relationship and love of Tracy and ultimately her tragic death. Doesn't sit with me with another Bond character.

    The same could be said for Star Wars where "Imperial March" the theme synonymously known as Vader's theme, appears in the sequel trilogy where TIE Fighters and star destroyers are just flying around etc.

    Tracy does not exist in Craig's universe and Madeline is the replacement for her.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,029
    It’s just that Madeleine had her own theme that Zimmer could easily have expanded on, but chose to go for a Barry cue that had zero to do with Craig’s films.
  • MeanwhileMeanwhile Brooklyn
    edited September 2021 Posts: 33
    It’s all manipulative, sure, but some are more lazy than others. Just because Zimmer throws a Barry quote doesn’t mean it’s automatically a great choice.

    This is what recent Star Wars had been criticized for its use of Easter eggs as if to nudge fans “YOU SEE THAT???”

    Thanks for taking up the fight with me. It’s either “fukanaga you!” or “bUt NeWmAnNn!” in my experience.

    Yes, most of the score is cool. Sorry, not sorry, to have an opinion about something that that lets me down about it. Just wait another week, people will be clenching their holes about things much more interesting when they see it.
  • Posts: 516
    It’s just that Madeleine had her own theme that Zimmer could easily have expanded on, but chose to go for a Barry cue that had zero to do with Craig’s films.

    Yeah, this conceptually does frustrate me. It's such a neat motif they could've used for her again here! Or adapted in someway.
  • MinionMinion Don't Hassle the Bond
    edited September 2021 Posts: 1,165
    I choose to think of it this way: John Barry always wanted to leave his musical thumbprint on the series in response to Monty Norman getting the credit for (mostly) his hard work. He never quite got the “007 Theme” to catch on, so if Zimmer is able to turn WHATTITW into the romantic thread of this franchise, I say let him. I’m sure Barry would feel honored.
  • Posts: 3,169
    Matt007 wrote: »
    DCisared wrote: »
    It’s all manipulative, sure, but some are more lazy than others. Just because Zimmer throws a Barry quote doesn’t mean it’s automatically a great choice.

    This is what recent Star Wars had been criticized for its use of Easter eggs as if to nudge fans “YOU SEE THAT???”

    Logic is flawed mate. I take it you hate any film that isn't DR NO using the Bond theme then?

    The Bond theme and a song that’s only been used for a single film over 50 years ago isn’t the same.

    The only other time that’s happened was with Barry’s very brief nod to LALD when Pepper notices Bond in TMWTGG.

    When bond goes through his desk in OHMSS we get bits of everything. Mango tree, FRWL, thunder ball…
    But we are shown Honey's knife and Grant's watch to be reminded of those characters.
    We need either a character, a location or an event to connect emotionally. None of these are present when Bond and Madeleine are driving towards Matera. What exactly are we suppose to be reminded of? So I perfectly understand why some fans have an issue with this.
  • NoTimeToLiveNoTimeToLive Jamaica
    Posts: 68
    It’s just that Madeleine had her own theme that Zimmer could easily have expanded on, but chose to go for a Barry cue that had zero to do with Craig’s films.

    +1
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 15,186
    WHATTITW is a personal theme associated with Bond's relationship and love of Tracy and ultimately her tragic death. Doesn't sit with me with another Bond character.

    The same could be said for Star Wars where "Imperial March" the theme synonymously known as Vader's theme, appears in the sequel trilogy where TIE Fighters and star destroyers are just flying around etc.

    Tracy does not exist in Craig's universe and Madeline is the replacement for her.

    No, the Imperial March was used as a theme for the Empire in general right from ESB. Vader is part of the Empire, therefore it gets played when he’s onscreen too, but it’s not solely his theme.
  • familymottofamilymotto Spain
    edited September 2021 Posts: 24
    Having listened to this through, I'll give this my $0.02 on some of my favorite tracks.

    Matera
    Probably the most overtly Barryesque part of the score. I actually really enjoy the WHATTITW quote, and I think it's an appropriate little nod that probably doesn't mean much to the average viewer but says a lot with a little for the fans.

    Message From An Old Friend
    I was really anxious to hear the first action track and this one was a ton of fun! Johnny Marr in my opinion gives this track and the following one a ton of personality. It's the perfect blend of a modern percussive action cue blended with that slick spy guitar sound (which I don't think we've gotten enough of). It is very fitting of Craig's Bond and indicative of the sound of this film.

    Square Escape
    A lot of the same feelings as the previous track. I really enjoyed the interpolation of the Bond theme with that really mean, growling sounding synth. It's quite simple but visceral and gets the adrenaline pumping.

    Someone Was Here
    One of my favorite tracks on the album. The lush, sweeping strings accented with the Bond vamp on the guitar is absolutely goosebump inducing and brings to mind all the great cinematography and landscape scenery the franchise has to offer. The middle section reminded me quite a bit of Newman's more ethereal work on Skyfall bit we pick back up again with a nice build at the end, once again the guitar work adds some flavor that is just hard to describe any other way than damn cool.

    Cuba Chase
    If this sequence is as fun to watch as this cue is to listen to then it'll be an absolute blast. Love the use of wailing horns and Latin flair, it's unashamedly bombastically Bondian without sounding like parody (which I unfortunately felt a lot with Arnold). It maintains all the menace and visceral aggressiveness of No Time to Die's other action cues with a very generous dollopp of flair and pizzazz, the wild trumpet solo is a highlight of the album for me and a really fantastic release in a franchise that has taken itself quite seriously musically over the past few films.

    Back to MI6
    I suspect this will be somewhat of a cathartic moment for the fans to here the Bond theme in its full glory here. This is NTTD's "Breadcrumbs" but meaner and punchier. It's the Bond theme that we all know and live but it sounds like Craig's Bond. Cool, dark, edgy, and brutal with the testosterone and swagger turned up to 11.

    Good To Have You Back
    Just about jumped out of my chair when I heard this one. A very stately and stoic rendition of OHMSS. I feel like it kind of misses the high pitched synth of "Journey to Blofeld's Hideaway" or even Marr playing the notes of the bassline to give it a little more flavor but all in all, it's nice to have this theme back.

    Lovely To See You Again
    The beginning of this track is straight out of Dunkirk with the ticking clock. Really nice to hear the piano melody from the theme reappear here. It's a really simple motif but one that is undeniably emotional and tender. This score may not be the best to listen to in isolation but I have no doubt it'll make me feel much more than the past few scores have in the context of the film.

    Home
    What a gorgeous track, again the title theme is the backbone of this one with such an epic, lush orchestration of the theme to open the piece, followed by maybe one of my favorite musical moments in the whole series. Those of us who have ventures into the spoiler territory probably have an idea of where this track fits into the story and the use of Billie's voice humming the melody of the theme is an absolute stroke of genius, this doesn't sound like something from a Bond film but I mean it in the best possible way. This one got me from left field...absolute chills. Also the way this track teases the payoff we get in "I'll Be Right Back"...*chef's kiss*

    I'll Be Right Back
    Starts off pretty inconspicuously with the typical build-up we've heard a lot of and then transitions into a very TDK trilogy sounding bit and then.... the lovely melody again. The strings swell up and we get the payoff we were teased at the end if "Home" with Billie's angelic vocals again. Very emotionally intense score by Zimmer and I'm absolutely here for it.

    Opening The Doors
    Really love what Zimmer does with the horns (they almost sound like they're physically tearing through the track) and synth here. Much of the same tense, meaning sound of the previous action tracks.

    Final Ascent
    Oh boy. I was expecting this one to be basically some epic interpolation of the the track, and we do get a bit of that towards the end but this one is really a journey itself. Obviously there's all sorts of speculation as to how t film ends but if this track is any indication we know that this will be an emotional send-off for the past 15 years of this franchise and you can really feel the weight of that in Final Ascent, it's truly the epic conclusion to this saga. It's a track that if I heard in isolation I'd never think it came from a Bond film but rather some emotionally dense biopic.

    No Time to Die
    I've already given my thoughts on the title theme, which I generally really like, but I think the song is really elevated within the context of this score. It's a little simple and doesn't quite leave the impression on its own the way Skyfall, You Know My Name, or even Another Way to Die did, but as a part of this score and the film's musical storytelling it really works. It's kind of interesting that in this age of hyper-commercialization they landed the hottest recording artist in the world at the time and ended up with a title song that functions so much more as an element of the film/score than a hit pop single. I think it is likely a product of A. Billie's minimalist aesthetic and B. Hans Zimmer's involvement in the making of the score AND title song.

    Overall, this is probably my favorite score of the Craig Era and probably my favorite since TLD. Is it the most intricate or complex musically? Maybe not, but it's visceral, cohesive, and full of heart while being unashamedly Bond and totally fitting Craig's portrayal like a glove. Very glad Hans Zimmer had an opportunity to put his stamp on the series and particularly on such a momentous film in the franchise.

    This is such a great breakdown of the score man!!

    Can't say I've been this excited about a Bond film ever! Bring on next week!!!
Sign In or Register to comment.