Lashana Lynch as 007 and the Women of 'No Time to Die'

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Comments

  • mtmmtm
    Posts: 3,888
    suavejmf wrote: »
    I will repeat my last statement.

    James Bond doesn't get rattled by personal insults or women being secret agents. End of story.

    True, usually. But he can be rattled by other things.....he certainly doesn’t like the mention of Tracy or Vesper in the films and in the YOLT novel he is actually depressed over Tracy’s death. That makes him interesting and.....almost, but not quite infallible.

    Yes but that's not the point I was making. I didn't say he doesn't get upset.

    You said by personal insults (and I'm not sure which insult you're saying he would be upset by..?) or by women being secret agents, which is to rather miss the specifics of the situation we're possibly looking at in this film.
    And as suave said, he does get upset and rattled by events: his ego can be dented occasionally and his armour stripped.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 5,386
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    Yes, that's true - and Silva knew it and attempted to rattle him more by not bothering with the glass.
  • mtmmtm
    Posts: 3,888
    I just saw that you said this:
    He doesn't have faith in his ego. He has faith in his talents.

    Which is rather strange, because I never claimed he has faith in his ego (I'm not sure what you mean by this) and what you're describing is an ego. He thinks he's great.
    This is a man who doesn't have a fragile ego.

    Again, you're arguing against something no-one said. He doesn't have a fragile ego, no: he has a pretty unshakeable one. But now and then there are little cracks in his pride.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited July 28 Posts: 2,264
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython You’re the man now, dog!
    edited July 28 Posts: 2,940
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.
  • mtmmtm
    Posts: 3,888
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 7,052
    Regarding the missed shot: or he did that to feed a distraction that would allow him to grab another handgun. Not quite expecting Silva would shoot her dead. In either case, he sure got his Spidey-sense back after that.

    I like one of the subtler points made in Casino Royale.
    M: I would ask you if you could remain emotionally detached...
    but I don't think that's your problem, is it, Bond?

    Bond: No.
    But of course that's his problem. However cold he can be at his job.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython You’re the man now, dog!
    Posts: 2,940
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.
  • mtmmtm
    edited July 29 Posts: 3,888
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered.

    One doesn't rule out the other: we and Silva's guys had already seen him get the better of several guys bigger than him at the casino, not to mention killing Patrice. That doesn't seem a great act at being out of condition. There's nothing to say he's pretending.
    What’s he supposed to be doing? Lulling them into a false sense of security that this guy who’s already killed three of their guys since he got in the country isn’t dangerous? It doesn’t seem to be working as there’s four armed guys pointing their guns at him!
    :D
    Mendes himself confirmed that.

    Authorial intent doesn't always equal the end result, but I'm curious where he said that?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython You’re the man now, dog!
    Posts: 2,940
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered.

    One doesn't rule out the other: we and Silva's guys had already seen him get the better of several guys bigger than him at the casino, not to mention killing Patrice. That doesn't seem a great act at being out of condition. There's nothing to say he's pretending.
    What’s he supposed to be doing? Lulling them into a false sense of security that this guy who’s already killed three of their guys since he got in the country isn’t dangerous? It doesn’t seem to be working as there’s four armed guys pointing their guns at him!
    :D

    True, though he needed help from Moneypenny, and a certain animal.
    Mendes himself confirmed that.

    Authorial intent doesn't always equal the end result, but I'm curious where he said that?

    Blu-ray commentary. He also says Mallory is mildly antagonistic at first towards Bond but that's really only because he's hoping to push Bond to be the agent they need. I'm not sure that necessarily comes off from the film, but it's a good reading.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,264
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.
  • mtmmtm
    Posts: 3,888
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered.

    One doesn't rule out the other: we and Silva's guys had already seen him get the better of several guys bigger than him at the casino, not to mention killing Patrice. That doesn't seem a great act at being out of condition. There's nothing to say he's pretending.
    What’s he supposed to be doing? Lulling them into a false sense of security that this guy who’s already killed three of their guys since he got in the country isn’t dangerous? It doesn’t seem to be working as there’s four armed guys pointing their guns at him!
    :D

    True, though he needed help from Moneypenny, and a certain animal.
    Mendes himself confirmed that.

    Authorial intent doesn't always equal the end result, but I'm curious where he said that?

    Blu-ray commentary. He also says Mallory is mildly antagonistic at first towards Bond but that's really only because he's hoping to push Bond to be the agent they need. I'm not sure that necessarily comes off from the film, but it's a good reading.

    Interesting, yeah: I don't think that's communicated by the film either. Maybe it doesn't have to be and it's just direction he gave Fiennes, I don't know.
  • mtmmtm
    edited July 29 Posts: 3,888
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython You’re the man now, dog!
    Posts: 2,940
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    He could not have been pretending that he was struggling during the tests, because he still had the bullet fragments lodged into his shoulder. By the time he was on the island he had obviously healed which was why he was able to move so swiftly and efficiently when taking down Silva’s goons.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,264
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    "There's more of me left" is a childish act,
    something bond isn't. Secondly, he wasn't pretending at mi6 because of bullet fragments in his shoulders but the subtle nod actually proves my point about him pretending while shooting severine. But what do i know, maybe he had a vision of our new strong, female 007 back in the time of SF, so his ego starting hurt from there :D
  • mtmmtm
    edited July 29 Posts: 3,888
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    He could not have been pretending that he was struggling during the tests, because he still had the bullet fragments lodged into his shoulder. By the time he was on the island he had obviously healed which was why he was able to move so swiftly and efficiently when taking down Silva’s goons.

    It's just not suggested that the fragments are what is slowing him down. He takes them out only because they give them a lead to find Patrice, not to help his recovery. There's no bit of storytelling onscreen to link the two. You may as well say it's the beard that's making him slow: as soon as he's shaved he's able to take down Silva. There's exactly the same amount of evidence to prove that.
    And I'm not talking about what might have happened and what stories we can invent after the event, I'm talking about what's shown onscreen.
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    "There's more of me left" is a childish act, something bond isn't.

    The radio gag is childish then because it throws back another very similar one of Silva's digs in exactly the same way..?
    On a separate note, Bond is completely childish. Boys with toys.
    Secondly, he wasn't pretending at mi6 because of bullet fragments in his shoulders but the subtle nod actually proves my point about him pretending while shooting severine.

    How are you proving exactly what he meant by that nod? Wouldn't a wink have suggested he's keeping something secret more than a nod does?
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,264
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    He could not have been pretending that he was struggling during the tests, because he still had the bullet fragments lodged into his shoulder. By the time he was on the island he had obviously healed which was why he was able to move so swiftly and efficiently when taking down Silva’s goons.

    It's just not suggested that the fragments are what is slowing him down. He takes them out only because they give them a lead to find Patrice, not to help his recovery. There's no bit of storytelling onscreen to link the two. You may as well say it's the beard that's making him slow: as soon as he's shaved he's able to take down Silva. There's exactly the same amount of evidence to prove that.
    And I'm not talking about what might have happened and what stories we can invent after the event, I'm talking about what's shown onscreen.
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    "There's more of me left" is a childish act, something bond isn't.

    The radio gag is childish then because it throws back another very similar one of Silva's digs in exactly the same way..?
    On a separate note, Bond is completely childish. Boys with toys.
    Secondly, he wasn't pretending at mi6 because of bullet fragments in his shoulders but the subtle nod actually proves my point about him pretending while shooting severine.

    How are you proving exactly what he meant by that nod? Wouldn't a wink have suggested he's keeping something secret more than a nod does?

    Bond isn't childish, there is a reason why he always make fun of Q's gadgets.

    Secondly, how are you proving that wink would have suggested he is keeping a secret?
  • mtmmtm
    edited July 29 Posts: 3,888
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    He could not have been pretending that he was struggling during the tests, because he still had the bullet fragments lodged into his shoulder. By the time he was on the island he had obviously healed which was why he was able to move so swiftly and efficiently when taking down Silva’s goons.

    It's just not suggested that the fragments are what is slowing him down. He takes them out only because they give them a lead to find Patrice, not to help his recovery. There's no bit of storytelling onscreen to link the two. You may as well say it's the beard that's making him slow: as soon as he's shaved he's able to take down Silva. There's exactly the same amount of evidence to prove that.
    And I'm not talking about what might have happened and what stories we can invent after the event, I'm talking about what's shown onscreen.
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    "There's more of me left" is a childish act, something bond isn't.

    The radio gag is childish then because it throws back another very similar one of Silva's digs in exactly the same way..?
    On a separate note, Bond is completely childish. Boys with toys.
    Secondly, he wasn't pretending at mi6 because of bullet fragments in his shoulders but the subtle nod actually proves my point about him pretending while shooting severine.

    How are you proving exactly what he meant by that nod? Wouldn't a wink have suggested he's keeping something secret more than a nod does?

    Bond isn't childish, there is a reason why he always make fun of Q's gadgets.

    A really grown-up reason? :D
    Why do you bring up Q's gadgets? Because that seems weirdly a really good proof of what I'm saying. You know Q's most famous recurring quote is "Grow up 007", surely?

    I don't really get why people are so eager to say that there's nothing negative in Bond's character. His faults are what makes him interesting surely? You don't think he's a perfect man?
    Secondly, how are you proving that wink would have suggested he is keeping a secret?

    Because that's what a wink means...? You've never seen a movie character wink to another to suggest they're doing something they can't say out loud? I'll give you a clue: Bond does it to Mallory in the enquiry scene! :D It's a bit more playful there, sure, but we understand what he means by it and so does Mallory.

    Avoiding the question by asking another question in return isn't a valid way of answering, by the way ;) I answered yours, so you can return the favour by answering mine.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited July 29 Posts: 2,264
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    He could not have been pretending that he was struggling during the tests, because he still had the bullet fragments lodged into his shoulder. By the time he was on the island he had obviously healed which was why he was able to move so swiftly and efficiently when taking down Silva’s goons.

    It's just not suggested that the fragments are what is slowing him down. He takes them out only because they give them a lead to find Patrice, not to help his recovery. There's no bit of storytelling onscreen to link the two. You may as well say it's the beard that's making him slow: as soon as he's shaved he's able to take down Silva. There's exactly the same amount of evidence to prove that.
    And I'm not talking about what might have happened and what stories we can invent after the event, I'm talking about what's shown onscreen.
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    "There's more of me left" is a childish act, something bond isn't.

    The radio gag is childish then because it throws back another very similar one of Silva's digs in exactly the same way..?
    On a separate note, Bond is completely childish. Boys with toys.
    Secondly, he wasn't pretending at mi6 because of bullet fragments in his shoulders but the subtle nod actually proves my point about him pretending while shooting severine.

    How are you proving exactly what he meant by that nod? Wouldn't a wink have suggested he's keeping something secret more than a nod does?

    Bond isn't childish, there is a reason why he always make fun of Q's gadgets.

    A really grown-up reason? :D
    Why do you bring up Q's gadgets? Because that seems weirdly a really good proof of what I'm saying. You know Q's most famous recurring quote is "Grow up 007", surely?

    I don't really get why people are so eager to say that there's nothing negative in Bond's character. His faults are what makes him interesting surely? You don't think he's a perfect man?
    Secondly, how are you proving that wink would have suggested he is keeping a secret?

    Because that's what a wink means...? You've never seen a movie character wink to another to suggest they're doing something they can't say out loud? I'll give you a clue: Bond does it to Mallory in the enquiry scene! :D It's a bit more playful there, sure, but we understand what he means by it and so does Mallory.

    Avoiding the question by asking another question in return isn't a valid way of answering, by the way ;) I answered yours, so you can return the favour by answering mine.

    Oh my what a greater example you have given, in case you have never noticed Bond & Q always had a playful comic relationship, so that's bad example you are using to prove that he is childish.
    I don't really understand why people are so eager to put bond's character down because he represent masculinity, something which woke & feminists are allergic to? No one's saying he is perfect but atleast use better examples and one funny thing i have seen that people criticize bond all the time but i have never seen anyone criticize characters from other action film's, let's say "Ethan Hunt" from MI, where does your criticism goes for him? Is he a perfect character according to you?

    About your clue where bond does it to Mallory, another bad example. When bond was firing at Mallory, the reason bond winked at Mallory because he didn't wanted him to panic & move from there due to ongoing situation, as we all know both of them had a bit of tension since the moment they met, so Mallory might assume that bond was trying to shoot him, neither of them could really trust each other. Bond's relationship with severine was a bit more than that so he actually didn't needed to wink at her and she can't move from there as her hands were tied, him looking at Silva for a second was a subtle nod, sadly subtlety isn't enough for today's woke people, they always wants everything spoon-fed.
  • mtmmtm
    edited July 29 Posts: 3,888
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    He could not have been pretending that he was struggling during the tests, because he still had the bullet fragments lodged into his shoulder. By the time he was on the island he had obviously healed which was why he was able to move so swiftly and efficiently when taking down Silva’s goons.

    It's just not suggested that the fragments are what is slowing him down. He takes them out only because they give them a lead to find Patrice, not to help his recovery. There's no bit of storytelling onscreen to link the two. You may as well say it's the beard that's making him slow: as soon as he's shaved he's able to take down Silva. There's exactly the same amount of evidence to prove that.
    And I'm not talking about what might have happened and what stories we can invent after the event, I'm talking about what's shown onscreen.
    mtm wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    He intentionally missed the shot at Severine because he wasn’t confident he could shoot that glass off her head.

    That's not what i meant, before shooting at her, his hands were still shaking, he might had intentionally missed the shot because he didn't wanted to shoot her or he wasn't confident that he can shoot the glass off her head but his shaky hands weren't intentionally fake at all, why didn't his ego got hurt then and there at silva's island, if he had one at mi6?

    He was genuinely shaking at MI6 because he still had those bullet fragments lodged in his shoulder. When he took them out, it allowed him to slowly heal over time. Silva hacked into the test results which gave him the impression that Bond was still in the same poor condition, not realizing Bond had improved over time. Bond took advantage of this by pretending to still be injured, as a way of lowering the guard on Silva and his men, not expecting Bond to strike. And he certainly was not going to take the shot on Severine because even at his peak he's not going to risk taking that one, so he made it look like he couldn't shoot because of his injury.

    It's a nice reading of it but that's not explicit in the film and is a possible interpretation of events rather than certain fact. There's nothing to suggest Bond is pretending.

    Sure there is, just from the fact that he showed his swiftness right after Silva killed Severine makes clear that he had already fully recovered. Mendes himself confirmed that.

    There was a small moment when he & severine were looking at each other and bond at 2:41(when he looks at Silva for a second),

    there is a a subtle nod that he was indeed pretending. Let's dissect this further, imo he did purposely missed the target because if he had hit the scotch or severine, then Silva wouldn't have any reason to fire his shot. By missing that shot, Silva used his bullet which means he'll be standing there with an unloaded weapon while bond deals with the guards.

    I think if we're intended to think he's pretending then he should have had a "Maybe there's more of the old me left than you'd think" line rather than the Q-branch radio one at the end of the scene. The subtle nod to me is just a nod of reassurance. As it is I don't see it, and also after we've seen him actually struggling with the MI6 tests we'd be wondering if he was pretending then as well, and if so why? Was it the beard? :D

    "There's more of me left" is a childish act, something bond isn't.

    The radio gag is childish then because it throws back another very similar one of Silva's digs in exactly the same way..?
    On a separate note, Bond is completely childish. Boys with toys.
    Secondly, he wasn't pretending at mi6 because of bullet fragments in his shoulders but the subtle nod actually proves my point about him pretending while shooting severine.

    How are you proving exactly what he meant by that nod? Wouldn't a wink have suggested he's keeping something secret more than a nod does?

    Bond isn't childish, there is a reason why he always make fun of Q's gadgets.

    A really grown-up reason? :D
    Why do you bring up Q's gadgets? Because that seems weirdly a really good proof of what I'm saying. You know Q's most famous recurring quote is "Grow up 007", surely?

    I don't really get why people are so eager to say that there's nothing negative in Bond's character. His faults are what makes him interesting surely? You don't think he's a perfect man?
    Secondly, how are you proving that wink would have suggested he is keeping a secret?

    Because that's what a wink means...? You've never seen a movie character wink to another to suggest they're doing something they can't say out loud? I'll give you a clue: Bond does it to Mallory in the enquiry scene! :D It's a bit more playful there, sure, but we understand what he means by it and so does Mallory.

    Avoiding the question by asking another question in return isn't a valid way of answering, by the way ;) I answered yours, so you can return the favour by answering mine.

    Oh my what a greater example you have given, in case you have never noticed Bond & Q always had a playful comic relationship, so that's bad example you are using to prove that he is childish.

    Well it was your example, not mine, and it's a great one "Grow up 007" etc. Bond winds him up as much as he can, often through childish silliness. It's not a problem. You're the one describing him replying to Silva by repurposing one of his jibes as childish anyway.
    I don't really understand why people are so eager to put bond's character down because he represent masculinity, something which woke & feminists are allergic to? No one's saying he is perfect but atleast use better examples and one funny thing i have seen that people criticize bond all the time but i have never seen anyone criticize characters from other action film's, let's say "Ethan Hunt" from MI, where does your criticism goes for him? Is he a perfect character according to you?

    You've gone off on one a bit here and started to make less sense. I'm not sure why you're talking about 'woke' etc.
    Ethan Hunt? Yeah, he is kind of presented as being the perfect guy whose one fault is that he's almost too perfect. And that's why he's a less interesting character than Bond and why the M:I films don't orbit around his personality in the way Bond films do around 007. Again, I'm not getting your point.
    About your clue where bond does it to Mallory, another bad example. When bond was firing at Mallory, the reason bond winked at Mallory because he didn't wanted him to panic & move from there due to ongoing situation, as we all know both of them had a bit of tension since the moment they met, so Mallory might assume that bond was trying to shoot him, neither of them could really trust each other.

    So... a coded signal that the other one could interpret and which the audience could read easily? Yeah, that's what I said :D
    It's actually a surprisingly similar situation: Bond aiming a gun at a friend and trying to reassure them, which the wink most certainly does: it says "don't worry, I have a plan"- and the audience get that too. I wonder if there's a bit of dramatic rhyming going on there.
    Bond's relationship with severine was a bit more than that so he actually didn't needed to wink at her and she can't move from there as her hands were tied, him looking at Silva for a second was a subtle nod, sadly subtlety isn't enough for today's woke people, they always wants everything spoon-fed.

    Bingo! I knew we'd get around to saying 'spoonfed' at some point :D I wasn't expecting 'woke' as well so that's a bonus.
    It's not about whether he did or didn't need to wink at her, it's about telling the audience what's going on. If you don't want the movie 'spoonfed' to you I have to ask why you've gone to the trouble of going all the way to the cinema and haven't worked out for yourself what it's about without seeing it :D
    She doesn't know Bond has failed his MI6 tests, she hasn't got a clue what they're talking about. A nod isn't going to tell her 'don't worry, I actually shaved the beard off that was stopping my superpowers from returning, I'll actually kill them all in a second': all it can tell her is 'don't worry, I don't want to kill you and hopefully I'll get you out of this'. Nothing more. And that's all that is communicated in the film.
  • mtm wrote: »
    If you don't want the movie 'spoonfed' to you I have to ask why you've gone to the trouble of going all the way to the cinema and haven't worked out for yourself what it's about without seeing it :D

    (Desperately striving to get the topic thread back on track...) At last! We're finally back to the real issue at hand here! Either NTTD is too woke to be countenanced, or it is a masterpiece and YOU'RE just too much of a dinosaur to survive an instant longer! (All decided, of course, without any of us having seen the film in question.) Carry on, please...

    And for those of you whose main point is "I'm right & you're wrong & I'll spend a few thousand words regarding a quick scene from a couple of films back proving it"... get a room. Or at least your own topic thread. ;)
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    edited July 29 Posts: 2,264
    "Well it was your example, not mine"
    Sure but i was responding to your comment on "there was more to me left".
    Ethan Hunt? Yeah, he is kind of presented as being the perfect guy whose one fault is that he's almost too perfect.
    Lol , sure.
    why the M:I films don't orbit around his personality in the way Bond films do around 007.
    Wrong, MI film's may be a team effort but it has always been a TC show or all about Ethan. For example SF was more about M & Silva than bond, can you name one MI film which was about any other Character than Ethan?
    So... a coded signal that the other one could interpret and which the audience could read easily? Yeah, that's what I said
    No you didn't, you try to compare Severine's situation (where she didn't had any option to move, and she can somehow trust bond) to Mallory's situation (where he had an option to move but couldn't due to ongoing situation and couldn't trust bond due to their suspicion on each other before) , both these situations are a bit different, a bad example as i said :D
    It's not about whether he did or didn't need to wink at her, it's about telling the audience what's going on.
    Is it? So audience can't evaluate the two different situation which clearly i mentioned above? Ok!
    If you don't want the movie 'spoonfed' to you I have to ask why you've gone to the trouble of going all the way to the cinema and haven't worked out for yourself what it's about without seeing it
    Well i'll be honest with you, i have only watched the last two bond film's in cinema. But i am not sure why you would say that? I don't like it to be spoon-fed every single scene, i can figure out two different situations without spoon-fed what it's about, but if it's subtle and good writing with decent story, i would definitely be excited which i certainly was when i watched SF, including Severine's scene without any wink ;) .
    A nod isn't going to tell her 'don't worry, I actually shaved the beard off that was stopping my superpowers from returning, I'll actually kill them all in a second': all it can tell her is 'don't worry, I don't want to kill you and hopefully I'll get you out of this'. Nothing more.
    Well, he did assure her in the casino did he would kill Silva, why would he need to do it again?
  • mtmmtm
    edited July 29 Posts: 3,888
    Sigh. You didn't get the hint from BeatlesSanEarmuffs then?
    "Well it was your example, not mine"
    Sure but i was responding to your comment on "there was more to me left".

    Yes, and it doesn't make any sense as a response.
    Ethan Hunt? Yeah, he is kind of presented as being the perfect guy whose one fault is that he's almost too perfect.
    Lol , sure.

    Is that all you can manage? It's a problem with the character: Hunt is bland.
    why the M:I films don't orbit around his personality in the way Bond films do around 007.
    Wrong, MI film's may be a team effort but it has always been a TC show or all about Ethan. For example SF was more about M & Silva than bond, can you name one MI film which was about any other Character than Ethan?

    Wrong. None of them are about him (maybe with the exception of Fallout, which attempts it): they're about the plot. You've mistaken being the lead character for being the subject of the film. The Bond films are all about hero-worshipping James Bond: they're basically about him. The M:I have a lead character, but they're rarely about him because he's mostly a cypher through all of them: the films are more interested in the clever plans and crazy action. He essentially changes character from film to film up until Rogue Nation because there's so little to him beyond 'super agent'.
    You really think Skyfall was about M, despite being set in James Bond's house?

    If you think Hunt is as interesting a character as James Bond then I can't help you.
    So... a coded signal that the other one could interpret and which the audience could read easily? Yeah, that's what I said
    No you didn't, you try to compare Severine's situation (where she didn't had any option to move, and she can somehow trust bond) to Mallory's situation (where he had an option to move but couldn't due to ongoing situation and couldn't trust bond due to their suspicion on each other before) , both these situations are a bit different, a bad example as i said :D


    You did say that yes, but you were wrong. He's asking Mallory (who has no option to move because he's pinned down by fire) to trust him. A wink works very well there and we understand what Bond is communicating. I didn't feel spoon-fed when he winked anyway, maybe you did!
    :)
    It's not about whether he did or didn't need to wink at her, it's about telling the audience what's going on.
    Is it? So audience can't evaluate the two different situation which clearly i mentioned above? Ok!

    Ask 'em. I've literally never heard anyone say that they thought Bond was telling her he was pretending before. You're the first.

    The removal of the shrapnel is never communicated as making him feel better, and the only reason we're given for him removing it is because it gives him a lead on Patrice. And in fact even after he removes it we see his grip slip when he's hanging onto the underside of the lift, suggesting he's still suffering from the effects that injury - certainly not suggesting it's magically gone away. There is zero reason given to the audience to believe he's healed himself because there's no storytelling which tells us that, and in fact only storytelling which tells us otherwise.
    You're free to join those dots up if you want, and it's a fun fan exercise to do so, but it's not what's in the film.
    If you don't want the movie 'spoonfed' to you I have to ask why you've gone to the trouble of going all the way to the cinema and haven't worked out for yourself what it's about without seeing it
    Well i'll be honest with you, i have only watched the last two bond film's in cinema. But i am not sure why you would say that?

    Yes, I believe you aren't.
    A nod isn't going to tell her 'don't worry, I actually shaved the beard off that was stopping my superpowers from returning, I'll actually kill them all in a second': all it can tell her is 'don't worry, I don't want to kill you and hopefully I'll get you out of this'. Nothing more.
    Well, he did assure her in the casino did he would kill Silva, why would he need to do it again?

    So he wouldn't even nod to her, you're saying? I can't keep up with this. I thought you were saying his nod was a sign to her that he was pretending? If he 'didn't need to do it again' why would he do that? This doesn't make sense.
    And 'why would he need to assure her again?'! She was tied up with tears streaming down her face and he was being forced to aim a gun at her head...?! Why wouldn't you try and assure someone in that circumstance? I get the feeling you didn't understand this scene at all.

    I'm giving up here, you're making no sense and as BeatlesSanEarmuffs said, this is way off topic and absolute nonsense.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,264
    Sigh. You didn't get the hint from BeatlesSanEarmuffs then?
    I did, but the last time i asked him to comment he simply ignored mine instead of responding with civility. So i didn't really give a rat's ass for people who don't bother to respond me directly.
    Yes, and it doesn't make any sense as a response.
    Is that the best you can do?
    It's a problem with the character: Hunt is bland.
    How a bland character can be perfect? It doesn't make sense at all.
    None of them are about him (maybe with the exception of Fallout, which attempts it):
    Not true, third one was about him as well. Most of the times they talk about what a great spy he is.
    You really think Skyfall was about M, despite being set in James Bond's house?
    Was the whole film set in his house? it was merely last 20 minutes of the film. M & Silva's relationship was explored throughout the film, this is one of the reason she was their from the beginning of the film, another coincidence was that they replaced her with Mallory which again became M by replacing her.
    You did say that yes, but you were wrong. He's asking Mallory (who has no option to move because he's pinned down by fire) to trust him. A wink works very well there and we understand what Bond is communicating. I didn't feel spoon-fed when he winked anyway, maybe you did!
    You completely change the context and put all the blame on me when i didn't even mentioned that i was spoon-fed in that scene or Severine's but you do. Sadly, it's not like i am expecting an honest answer from here onwards.
    I've literally never heard anyone say that they thought Bond was telling her he was pretending before.
    She already knew bond wouldn't shoot her, she trusted him when he said that in casino that he would kill Silva.
    I thought you were saying his nod was a sign to her that he was pretending?
    Nope that's not what i said, you are purposely misquoting me, i said he was pretending to not shoot her but that nod may not be for her, he was simply looking at Silva, why would looking at Silva would be a nod for her? it could be a simple nod for audience, at least that's what i interpreted from that scene.
    I'm giving up here, you're making no sense and as BeatlesSanEarmuffs said, this is way off topic and absolute nonsense.
    No one is forcing you to respond, you are welcome to ignore and i would definitely ignore our conversation from here onwards, as it never goes anywhere. Thank you for responding.
  • Sigh. You didn't get the hint from BeatlesSanEarmuffs then?
    I did, but the last time i asked him to comment he simply ignored mine instead of responding with civility. So i didn't really give a rat's ass for people who don't bother to respond me directly.
    ...,.,..

    I'm giving up here, you're making no sense and as BeatlesSanEarmuffs said, this is way off topic and absolute nonsense.
    No one is forcing you to respond, you are welcome to ignore and i would definitely ignore our conversation from here onwards, as it never goes anywhere. Thank you for responding.

    Please forgive me for choosing not to waste my time.
  • ResurrectionResurrection Kolkata, India
    Posts: 2,264
    Sigh. You didn't get the hint from BeatlesSanEarmuffs then?
    I did, but the last time i asked him to comment he simply ignored mine instead of responding with civility. So i didn't really give a rat's ass for people who don't bother to respond me directly.
    ...,.,..

    I'm giving up here, you're making no sense and as BeatlesSanEarmuffs said, this is way off topic and absolute nonsense.
    No one is forcing you to respond, you are welcome to ignore and i would definitely ignore our conversation from here onwards, as it never goes anywhere. Thank you for responding.

    Please forgive me for choosing not to waste my time.

    Just like you are not doing it now.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger _Redux
    Posts: 37,945
    AstonLotus wrote: »

    Utterly hilarious. Thanks for posting.
  • edited September 10 Posts: 4,160
    Lashana Lynch has given a new video interview with Elle. The key takeaways are:

    • She describes Nomi has having 'ninja' skills
    • Despite being well spoken, Nomi comes from a working class background
    • Nomi has anxiety and is fearful she isn't doing a good job.

    I can see why she got the part from the video - she's very charismatic and likeable. I'm rooting for her.

    the-elle-list6-1599062476.jpg?resize=980:*
  • mtmmtm
    Posts: 3,888
    Yes I think they mentioned Nomi sort of lacking confidence a little in that round table interview they did with all of the cast. Presumably she learns to be a stronger agent during the film.
    I think she's got potential to be a really good character. I thought Lynch was very strong and likeable in Captain Marvel.
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