NO TIME TO DIE (2021) - Critical Reaction and Box Office Performance

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,951
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Indeed. It's similar to the way that 'anti-hero' is now used to refer to someone like Tony Soprano, when it originally meant someone like Bartleby. It won't be long before 'conversate' becomes a real word... ;)

    It’s funny because I’ve seen fans offended by the notion that Bond is an anti-hero. I mean, back in 1962, it wasn’t exactly common to see someone like Cary Grant shoot an unarmed man to death.

    TBH, Bond is not an anti-hero. Never has been.

    At one time anti-hero meant a hero with qualities of a villain.

    OO7 shooting Professor Dent when he had no bullets for example.

    So he's no Saint.

    angel-saint.gif

    But tge argument could be made that Dent tried to kill him first...and in his sleep no less. Dent was only unarmed because he unloaded bullets into what he thought was Bond and when the jig was up, he still attempted to try and kill Bond only to realise he ran out bullets. Dent deserved what he got and he got it from a licensed hitman.

    That part is understood.

    Still, Bond gunning down Dent in cold blood is not in line with the traditional hero. That's why it's called out as evidence of an anti-hero.

    Like I said earlier, this wasn’t what you’d ever see Gary Cooper or Cary Grant do in their movies. Bond movies were very shocking in the 60s and was part of why they were such a phenomenon. Audiences never saw anything like Bond.

    In fact, the scene was originally supposed to show Bond unloading his gun til it was empty on Dent, but the censors deemed it too violent so that’s why it was edited down to just two shots. It was supposed to show Bond had a very ruthless sense of irony.

  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    edited December 2021 Posts: 7,517
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    TripAces wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    Indeed. It's similar to the way that 'anti-hero' is now used to refer to someone like Tony Soprano, when it originally meant someone like Bartleby. It won't be long before 'conversate' becomes a real word... ;)

    It’s funny because I’ve seen fans offended by the notion that Bond is an anti-hero. I mean, back in 1962, it wasn’t exactly common to see someone like Cary Grant shoot an unarmed man to death.

    TBH, Bond is not an anti-hero. Never has been.

    At one time anti-hero meant a hero with qualities of a villain.

    OO7 shooting Professor Dent when he had no bullets for example.

    So he's no Saint.

    angel-saint.gif

    But tge argument could be made that Dent tried to kill him first...and in his sleep no less. Dent was only unarmed because he unloaded bullets into what he thought was Bond and when the jig was up, he still attempted to try and kill Bond only to realise he ran out bullets. Dent deserved what he got and he got it from a licensed hitman.

    That part is understood.

    Still, Bond gunning down Dent in cold blood is not in line with the traditional hero. That's why it's called out as evidence of an anti-hero.

    My favourite part of TMWTGG is at the end when Bond is struggling to kill Scaramanga despite everything he had done up until that point. It's only when Scaramanga tries to surprise him again with a gun does Bond finally kill him.

    EDIT: The novel.
  • Feyador wrote: »
    Hero or anti-hero? Or something more complicated? A very interesting topic that probably deserves its own thread.

    “I don’t think that he is necessarily a good guy or a bad guy. Who is? He’s got his vices and very few perceptible virtues except patriotism and courage, which are probably not virtues anyway.” [Fleming, Playboy interview]

    Hero or anti-hero? If I may use the detested (by some around here, anyway) Marvel Comics of the 1960s as an example: the Hulk and Namor the Sub-Mariner were both considered anti-heroes in this pantheon. Both often went up against the U.S. Army or more conventional "heroes" like the Fantastic Four and the Avengers -- but both had motivations that the audience understood and could sympathize with. Namor, for example, was the Prince of undersea Atlantis, and often found himself fighting against various forces from the surface world. They weren't exactly heroes but certainly weren't out & out villains -- therefore, they were considered anti-heroes. Most of Marvel's lead characters were considered "flawed heroes" -- Spider-Man was constantly needing to bring home a paycheck to support his ailing Aunt May, and this led him to take some less-than-completely heroic positions, thus, the "flawed hero" designation. Using these parameters to measure our own story-line, I'd consider Bond a flawed hero from the same mold as many of Marvel's more popular characters.

    That point made, you may now go back to judging Marvel as the enemy if you truly must.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    Posts: 2,845
    I've never seen a Marvel movie! Unless Deadpool counts?
  • Venutius wrote: »
    I've never seen a Marvel movie! Unless Deadpool counts?

    Yep, Marvel character.

    NTTDs US weekend box-office will be <1m....so it's a really slow crawl to 160m now.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited December 2021 Posts: 2,845
    Ah well, I've lost my bragging rights, then - I just thought it was a spoof! :D
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited December 2021 Posts: 7,951
    One of the funniest things to see in Bond fandom is fans acting snooty about Marvel films, when we have stuff like this.



    And this…



    Aaaaaaaand this:

  • BennyBenny keeping tabs on youAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,714
    Took my son along to see NTTD last night, was surprised and happy to see a cinema that was 3/4 full.
    A broad demographic of patrons as well. From younger couples, families with teenaged children and seniors.
    After three weeks on release here in Australia, I was not expecting this attendance level.
    Refreshing to see after almost 60 years in the cinema, James Bond can still put bums on seats. Nobody does it better.
    ;)
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 12,807
    I'm gonna travel to the West Coast US tomorrow on business. Where it's playing I'll give a report.
  • Posts: 484
    Benny wrote: »
    Took my son along to see NTTD last night, was surprised and happy to see a cinema that was 3/4 full.
    A broad demographic of patrons as well. From younger couples, families with teenaged children and seniors.
    After three weeks on release here in Australia, I was not expecting this attendance level.
    Refreshing to see after almost 60 years in the cinema, James Bond can still put bums on seats. Nobody does it better.
    ;)

    This really does amaze me so much — despite everything, the film was a rip-roaring success. Truly nothing can stop Bond, not changing global politics or film preferences or a freaking pandemic!
  • Surely MGM should have put BOND on PVOD after the Thanksgiving weekend (if just to squeeze a few more millions to add to the box office totale). I think putting it on PVOD before thanksgiving hurt its chances of at least getting to 160M in the US.
  • Posts: 308
    Surely MGM should have put BOND on PVOD after the Thanksgiving weekend (if just to squeeze a few more millions to add to the box office totale). I think putting it on PVOD before thanksgiving hurt its chances of at least getting to 160M in the US.

    But PVOD is essentially pure profit for the studio. Box Office matters but it’s not necessarily the most profitable part of a film’s lifespan. Theater grosses fulfill two essential functions: 1. Generating hype 2. Paying out or determining back end points.

    For MGM, the theatrical release of NTTD has done its job. NTTD’s theater run proves the continued popularity and viability of the franchise, and maintains the basic pay and money-making structure of studio filmmaking.



  • Burgess wrote: »
    Surely MGM should have put BOND on PVOD after the Thanksgiving weekend (if just to squeeze a few more millions to add to the box office totale). I think putting it on PVOD before thanksgiving hurt its chances of at least getting to 160M in the US.

    But PVOD is essentially pure profit for the studio. Box Office matters but it’s not necessarily the most profitable part of a film’s lifespan. Theater grosses fulfill two essential functions: 1. Generating hype 2. Paying out or determining back end points.

    For MGM, the theatrical release of NTTD has done its job. NTTD’s theater run proves the continued popularity and viability of the franchise, and maintains the basic pay and money-making structure of studio filmmaking.



    Agree with all your points. But Hollywood likes the numbers. And it seems like releasing the PVOD just before the USA thanksgiving weekend hurt its chances of a holiday bump in its box office figures. They could have held on just a week later and still got the pure profit of the PVOD sales on top of a couple or more extra millions at the box office. As it stands its stuck behind A QUIET PLACE 2 on the USA Box Office chart for 2021.
  • Posts: 207
    Benny wrote: »
    Took my son along to see NTTD last night, was surprised and happy to see a cinema that was 3/4 full.
    A broad demographic of patrons as well. From younger couples, families with teenaged children and seniors.
    After three weeks on release here in Australia, I was not expecting this attendance level.
    Refreshing to see after almost 60 years in the cinema, James Bond can still put bums on seats. Nobody does it better.
    ;)

    That’s awesome! Hope you and your son had a great time. Always cool to see the broad demographics at the theater when Bond is showing. Was a lot of seniors at my first viewing, and a lot of teenagers at my second.
  • Posts: 625
    Burgess wrote: »
    Box Office matters but it’s not necessarily the most profitable part of a film’s lifespan.

    They get at least one third of the global box office gross. With $780 in the end, that would be $260 million.
    Never ever will they get $260 million out of VOD or Blu-Ray.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 308
    Jan1985 wrote: »
    Burgess wrote: »
    Box Office matters but it’s not necessarily the most profitable part of a film’s lifespan.

    They get at least one third of the global box office gross. With $780 in the end, that would be $260 million.
    Never ever will they get $260 million out of VOD or Blu-Ray.

    That’s not necessarily true. Anywhere from 60-70% of a film’s revenue comes from ancillary revenue. That’s home media, broadcast, merchandise and PVOD. Disney made $125M from Black Widow on D+, and that was the last reported figure in August. Die Another Day (2002) made $80M in DVD sales and $44M in rentals during its first week of home media release. Physical home media is in decline but the example still stands.

    https://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/dad_dvd_sales.php3?t=dad&s=dad

    http://tboake.com/dystopia/mcauley/filmcost.html

    http://www.ecns.cn/m/2016/12-16/237935.shtml

  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Okay here’s the update with the actual numbers.

    Yesterday NTTD finally hit a great milestone crossing the $600M mark internationally ($605.3M) as is approaching the end of its spectacular run with almost $12M grossed over the last 7 days (-37% compared to the previous week) for an actual $764.8M global cume.

    Australia is providing a slightly disappointing $21M (A$29.5M) and with Spidey coming out in just 10 days it’s quite unlikely that it will gross more than an overall $25M+, while China brings a fine $64M.
    In the US it is almost over as well with just $900K (-47%) grossed throughout the weekend for a $159.5M cume but the good news is that NTTD will be able to best A Quiet Place 2 since it will likely hit $161M.
    In Russia with $14.4M NTTD outgrossed SP's $13.3M.
    On the other hand in the UK Bond stands now at a whooping £96M and it will add at least another million to its cume.

    At this rate a final gross of at least $775M seems locked.
  • edited December 2021 Posts: 214
    It will best AQP2 but will be overtaken by 2 Marvel movies, The Eternals, and of course, Spidey....but still well within the Top 10 US movies for 2021. Spidey will beat NTTD in 3-5 days it seems.

    Disappointed with take from Oz and China but then no movie in Oz has really bought in huge money this year....Bond might seem low but is still #2 there.

    The slow crawl to 770m-775m seems locked, thanks to the rest of the world.
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    In China it really did the best Bond could do. $65M without any promotional tour and with $15/20M burned because of covid-related shut downs is quite good.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,297
    This film is doing well. Taken into account its length and troubled production, it really cannot be called a flop or bomb or whatever.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 7,951
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    This film is doing well. Taken into account its length and troubled production, it really cannot be called a flop or bomb or whatever.

    But… but did you see those well nuanced scathing Amazon reviews??? WHAT A FAILURE LOLZORZ!!1!!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,297
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    This film is doing well. Taken into account its length and troubled production, it really cannot be called a flop or bomb or whatever.

    But… but did you see those well nuanced scathing Amazon reviews??? WHAT A FAILURE LOLZORZ!!1!!

    Well, some of our clairvoyant members were absolutely sure this film was going to tank. They said so in 2018. Because it was taking too long. And because of Craig and Barbara Broccoli and other "reasons". Nobody was going to like this film and so forth.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,721
    I think considering SF hit a billion and NTTD has made three-quarters of that with a pandemic to deal with they've done remarkably well. Really happy that the general public is still in love with Bond. Although seeing as this is Bond's swansong and Craig is the most popular Bond in decades it is disappointing it will be trapped behind the very ordinary 'A Quiet Place 2.'
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,297
    I think considering SF hit a billion and NTTD has made three-quarters of that with a pandemic to deal with they've done remarkably well. Really happy that the general public is still in love with Bond. Although seeing as this is Bond's swansong and Craig is the most popular Bond in decades it is disappointing it will be trapped behind the very ordinary 'A Quiet Place 2.'

    Please explain. AQP2 didn't do that well, did it? Or are we talking domestic BO?
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    I think considering SF hit a billion and NTTD has made three-quarters of that with a pandemic to deal with they've done remarkably well. Really happy that the general public is still in love with Bond. Although seeing as this is Bond's swansong and Craig is the most popular Bond in decades it is disappointing it will be trapped behind the very ordinary 'A Quiet Place 2.'

    NTTD will best AQP2 and thank God that is just an American issue.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,721
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I think considering SF hit a billion and NTTD has made three-quarters of that with a pandemic to deal with they've done remarkably well. Really happy that the general public is still in love with Bond. Although seeing as this is Bond's swansong and Craig is the most popular Bond in decades it is disappointing it will be trapped behind the very ordinary 'A Quiet Place 2.'

    Please explain. AQP2 didn't do that well, did it? Or are we talking domestic BO?

    I believe AQP2 domestic US box office is currently higher than NTTD? Or have I got that wrong?

    Not that it means much to me. The top ten is basically all super hero films other than AQP2 and NTTD anyway.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,297
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I think considering SF hit a billion and NTTD has made three-quarters of that with a pandemic to deal with they've done remarkably well. Really happy that the general public is still in love with Bond. Although seeing as this is Bond's swansong and Craig is the most popular Bond in decades it is disappointing it will be trapped behind the very ordinary 'A Quiet Place 2.'

    Please explain. AQP2 didn't do that well, did it? Or are we talking domestic BO?

    I believe AQP2 domestic US box office is currently higher than NTTD? Or have I got that wrong?

    Not that it means much to me. The top ten is basically all super hero films other than AQP2 and NTTD anyway.

    That's sad, if true. AQP2 was a bit of a letdown for me. Luckily, worldwide BO is kinder to Bond.
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,721
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I think considering SF hit a billion and NTTD has made three-quarters of that with a pandemic to deal with they've done remarkably well. Really happy that the general public is still in love with Bond. Although seeing as this is Bond's swansong and Craig is the most popular Bond in decades it is disappointing it will be trapped behind the very ordinary 'A Quiet Place 2.'

    Please explain. AQP2 didn't do that well, did it? Or are we talking domestic BO?

    I believe AQP2 domestic US box office is currently higher than NTTD? Or have I got that wrong?

    Not that it means much to me. The top ten is basically all super hero films other than AQP2 and NTTD anyway.

    That's sad, if true. AQP2 was a bit of a letdown for me. Luckily, worldwide BO is kinder to Bond.

    Yes - I think AQP2 soared on the strength of the first one. It was a critical and commercial favourite. But really the sequel didn't do anything new with the concept. Unlike NTTD.

    Still, Bond has always had global appeal (I'm about as far away from the States as you can get!) so it will do better internationally. Viva la Bond!
  • matt_umatt_u better known as Mr. Roark
    Posts: 4,343
    Bond will surpass AQP2 in the US. But again, a mediocre theatrical run it’s just an American issue. Internationally Bond did great and there’s not even room for discussing it.

    We are talking about the highest grossing non Chinese film of the pandemic era, folks.

    Craig’s swan song couldn’t asked for something better, given the circumstances.
  • Posts: 484
    matt_u wrote: »
    Bond will surpass AQP2 in the US. But again, a mediocre theatrical run it’s just an American issue. Internationally Bond did great and there’s not even room for discussing it.

    We are talking about the highest grossing non Chinese film of the pandemic era, folks.

    Craig’s swan song couldn’t asked for something better, given the circumstances.

    Yeah I was always higher on its BO potential — but even I'm shocked at how well it did. Topping Spectre in the UK despite a pandemic is hilarious.
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