Well here comes the UK General Election!

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  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Am I missing something here? Is May really 'doing exceptional' (sic) and uniting the country? Or is it that there are literally no credible alternatives so by default she's trouncing every other party?

    Nonetheless spectacular losses by Labour and UKIP and the alleged Liberal upsurge on the back of Remoaners all voting for them hasn't happened so far. Whether or not the same results will play out in the general election time will tell but if it does she'll be the new Maggie.
  • Posts: 19,339
    Yep,you are missing something.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    There's an element of the country coalescing around the leader now. It's a psychological thing. Stiff upper lip and all that. Threats everywhere. Batten down the hatches.

    The EU bureaucrats make for decent villains. They can't help themselves. Juncker is somewhat Blofeld'esque at the very least.

    It doesn't hurt that the opposition leader doesn't have what it takes.

    May's playing her cards well, I have to give her credit.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe JK ROFLing
    Posts: 7,039
    bondjames wrote: »
    There's an element of the country coalescing around the leader now. It's a psychological thing. Stiff upper lip and all that. Threats everywhere. Batten down the hatches.

    The EU bureaucrats make for decent villains. They can't help themselves. Juncker is somewhat Blofeld'esque at the very least.

    It doesn't hurt that the opposition leader doesn't have what it takes.

    May's playing her cards well, I have to give her credit.

    Exactly.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 3,482
    Terrifying.
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    edited May 2017 Posts: 13,067
    Terrifyingly good in my book. One Nation Toryism.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 737
    I can't imagine why anyone with an ounce of compassion for their fellow man would vote conservative.

    Money before humanity. Profit before education and health. Despicable party voted for by the selfish, the greedy, the lucky, the intolerant and the fortunate.
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    Posts: 13,067
    Matt007 wrote: »
    I can't imagine why anyone with an ounce of compassion for their fellow man would vote conservative.

    Money before humanity. Profit before education and health. Despicable party voted for by the selfish, the greedy, the lucky, the intolerant and the successful.

    Thete must be a lot of uncompassionate people around then, given the local election results.
  • Posts: 737
    Yes I think there probably are
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    Posts: 13,067
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Yes I think there probably are

    I think you are thinking of Thatcherism more though than the more moderate brand of conservatism we have today.
  • Posts: 737
    Nothing moderate about the current Tory approach to schools and education and the national health service. I have several family members who work in those sectors. Don't let May and her cronies Fool you.

    School budgets have been slashed. An average student will now leave uni with around 50k of debt. There's nothing moderate about selling off parts of the NHS to Richard Branson

    As tony benn said. You don't tax people just because they're educated. Your tax them because they are rich.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Tony Benn? That's a name I haven't heard for a while. When I was growing up over there he was known as a seriously hard & uncompromising leftie, no?
  • Posts: 3,823
    Its a pretty horrible time for politics IMHO, many seem to have lost sight of policy and the good it can do for society and focus on characters and Nationalism.
  • edited May 2017 Posts: 737
    Yes that's right

    I might not agree with everything he says, I probably don't agree with everything anyone says... but I like this short clip as a summary, if you can ignore the 1 minute bit in the middle of it by Michael Moore.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    There is a credibility gap when it comes to policy and politicians these days. Capitalism is failing the many and benefiting the few. The income and wealth gap is increasing considerably in all Western countries and relative performance is declining in comparison to Far east upstarts.

    Hardly an environment for policy. More one for anger and lashing out.

    This is where Nationalism can take hold. Having said that, I'm not against the power of patriotism and national pride. It just has to be wielded carefully.
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    edited May 2017 Posts: 13,067
    Tony Benn was practically a communist, but then the far Left aren't vilified in the way those of the Right are.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited May 2017 Posts: 23,883
    Matt007 wrote: »
    Yes that's right

    I might not agree with everything he says, I probably don't agree with everything anyone says... but I like this short clip as a summary, if you can ignore the 1 minute bit in the middle of it by Michael Moore.

    That's an interesting clip. Thanks for posting. I don't disagree with him conceptually. It's a humane point of view. The only thing is it's not entirely compatible with the market based system that the UK currently has, along with the concentration of power and wealth among the few and the corporations. A more benign form of capitalism with strong social protections, training, education and thresholds (which ironically I think Germany does well among the large European nations, along with the smaller Scandinavian countries) would perhaps be ideal.

    The traditional left/right debate bores me to no end. Ultimately the right are wrong to want to dismantle social programs and the left are wrong to want to keep them as they are. What's required is a way to keep them but make them far more efficient and subject to market pressures to ensure competitiveness. This is what's normally lost in the debates.
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    Posts: 13,067
    Bring on the Lib Dems then...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Bring on the Lib Dems then...
    I've always been partial to them myself.
  • Posts: 737
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Tony Benn was practically a communist, but then the far left aren't vilified in the way those if the Right are.

    I think that's a cheap argument to be honest
    Watch from 4.10



    He was also against the EU which might surprise people.
  • Posts: 737
    Conservatives will win easily. Corbyn speaks a lot of sense and is a principled man. But he isn't a leader. He isn't someone who can persuade beyond policy. And he isn't someone who can galvanise support.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited May 2017 Posts: 9,117
    There's a distinction to be made between being compassionate towards the disabled, the sick and people who geunuinely want to work and the feckless to sit on their arse watching Jeremy Kyle and churning out endless offspring expecting me to pay for it all.

    The notion that if you vote Tory you are some sort of inhuman Nazi is pretty tiresome. Most people just want to see everyone paying their way rather than leeching off the state.

    For the record I have a lot of time for Tony Benn. I don't agree with 99% of what he said but he was a man of principle who stood up for what he believed in. If there were more like him rather than pathetic self serving suits full of bugger all like Cameron, Osborne and the infinity of Eurocrats then we might not be in the state we are now.
  • Posts: 737
    There's a distinction to be made between being compassionate towards the disabled, the sick and people who geunuinely want to work and the feckless to sit on their arse watching Jeremy Kyle and churning out endless offspring expecting me to pay for it all.

    The notion that if you vote Tory you are some sort of inhuman Nazi is pretty tiresome. Most people just want to see everyone paying their way rather than leeching off the state.

    For the record I have a lot of time for Tony Benn. I don't agree with 99% of what he said but he was a man of principle who stood up for what he believed in. If there were more like him rather than pathetic self serving suits full of bugger all like Cameron, Osborne and the infinity of Eurocrats then we might not be in the state we are now.

    I would agree with most of that too. I also think that if more people were given an exciting education that catered for and appealed to their individual skill sets, gifts and interests, more people would see the value in education and not be turned off by being made to feel like failures because of their lack of ability in two
    Subjects: maths and English
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    Posts: 13,067
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Bring on the Lib Dems then...
    I've always been partial to them myself.

    You never know where you stand with wishy-washy liberals though.
  • Posts: 3,653
    I think having one party politics is clearly bad for the country regardless of who is in power.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 3,482
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Dragonpol wrote: »
    Bring on the Lib Dems then...
    I've always been partial to them myself.

    You never know where you stand with wishy-washy liberals though.

    Where you always know where you stand with the Tories and that for many is not a good place.

    Yes many that vote Conservative aren't selfish and inconsiderate to other peoples problems but that doesn't stop that party having always been for one section of the public and always giving them an easy time while blaming the ills of the country on another section.

    Not forgetting this is the party introduced the so called trickle down method.

    Maybe they should get the top 1% to pay a fairer rate of tax and the likes of Google and Amazon contribute the billions they really should be paying but no we'll blame it on immigration and the unemployed.

    At least Corby offers and opposition, Labour previously was just a diet Tory option, Margaret Thatcher said her greatest achievement was Tony Blair and New Labour.

    You might not like him and what he stands for but at least it's an alternative, like my our friend above says one party politics is not healthy for the country.



  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Shardlake wrote: »
    At least Corby offers and opposition, Labour previously was just a diet Tory option, Margaret Thatcher said her greatest achievement was Tony Blair and New Labour.

    You might not like him and what he stands for but at least it's an alternative

    That alternative being pretty much communism in thrall to the self serving unions.

    Given that paucity of choice I think most sane people will go for Teresa.
  • Posts: 737
    In fairness to May at least I thought she would be half decent at negotiating with eu.

    Using brexit as a self serving opportunity to have a general election she has gone way down in my book, and she wasn't high to start
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited May 2017 Posts: 3,482
    Shardlake wrote: »
    At least Corby offers and opposition, Labour previously was just a diet Tory option, Margaret Thatcher said her greatest achievement was Tony Blair and New Labour.

    You might not like him and what he stands for but at least it's an alternative

    That alternative being pretty much communism in thrall to the self serving unions.

    Given that paucity of choice I think most sane people will go for Teresa.

    I guess we'll see and I'm all ready for a depressing Tory landslide but don't forget what has happened lately, surely you can see when the mainstream media thinks things are a foregone conclusion and how they played out.

    Look at Brexit, look at Trump.

    Also a politician with humanity now there is a novelty, Teresa is also making it all about Brexit entirely, barely any mention of anything else.

    All likely she's played a genius move going for now, it's much smarter than 2020, because Brexit will be in effect and if the initial effects are not good and many people have suffered they'll be out for her blood, this way she gets 2 years on that and hopefully things will have started to turn round, well turn round for some that is.

    Lets face it May is the best option in a bad bunch, don't think this is down her being outright best choice no questions, she has no opposition and that's while she'll more than likely get back in.

    Thought I'd love it June 8th she becomes one of the shortest term Prime Ministers in recent history, I suppose I can live in my alternative reality as I'm not fooling myself that it is likely to happen.

    Though the Independent has talked about people tactical voting just ensure there isn't a Tory landslide, I wouldn't count your chickens before they hatch but then again your preferred option is more likely than mine but who knows another coalition could be on the cards.
  • DragonpolDragonpol "Killers be serial, Copperfield material."
    edited May 2017 Posts: 13,067
    Matt007 wrote: »
    In fairness to May at least I thought she would be half decent at negotiating with eu.

    Using brexit as a self serving opportunity to have a general election she has gone way down in my book, and she wasn't high to start

    May faces a tough audience in some parts of the country but that's democracy. It would become stifling and unhealthy if everyone had the same type of politics within a country!
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