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Pierce and Daniel much more similar than we thought

SzonanaSzonana Mexico
edited January 2016 in Actors Posts: 1,104
With the therad of chossing the most representative film of each Bond actor I realized how similar were the tenures of Pierce and Criag
Well how similar have been so far since there is chance for Craig to do more but here we go

First Casino Royale and Goldeneye both having a great debut which made people love them as Bond with a film which looks very Bondian but still makes Bond more human and well non of those films were written for them since the beggining.

Goldeneye was adapted for Pierce after Dalton steped down and the film was originally written for Dalton.
Casino Royale was the first novel writen by Fleming so its a film that could have used Pierce, Connery or Dalton in their respective debuts and it would have worked equally good.

So both succed perfectly good in a film which story wasn't made just for them.

Quantum of Solace and Tomorrow never dies both very fun action flicks which were critizced for being an action hollywood film with Bond in it than a proper Bond film.

My defense on both, they do have their very Bondian Moments
Tomorrow never dies: Bond getting his gadgets from Q, the party scene and the hotel scene with Paris.
Quantum: The opera scene, Bond At the hotel with Agent Fields and Agent fileds being killed just like Gill in Goldfinger.


The World is not enough and Skyfall
This time both had a very good and proper Bond film with the right Bond elements in it and a great story which M was more involed than in any other Ocassion.
So its in their third film where Craig and Piecre had their Bond Movie made for them and i loved both films.


Spectre and Die another day their most over the top Bond adventure which did feel very Bondian but more than making it one more film for each actor its an Homage movie to the franchise which sacrifized a script for great style, fun and homages and nods everywhere to the past films.





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Comments

  • Posts: 740
    It's nice to see someone else stand up for TWINE. I think it's a cracking movie and severely underrated! It's got some silly moments in it but so most of my other favourite Bond movies like GF, OHMSS, TSWLM and TLD.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 15,888
    Nice comparison!
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,104
    TR007 wrote: »
    It's nice to see someone else stand up for TWINE. I think it's a cracking movie and severely underrated! It's got some silly moments in it but so most of my other favourite Bond movies like GF, OHMSS, TSWLM and TLD.

    The world is not enough is one of my huge favorites. Im always undecided between The World is not enough and Goldeneye.

    And like you said it all bond movies have their silly moments.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 15,888
    TR007 wrote: »
    It's nice to see someone else stand up for TWINE. I think it's a cracking movie and severely underrated! It's got some silly moments in it but so most of my other favourite Bond movies like GF, OHMSS, TSWLM and TLD.
    Yes, I really really like TWINE as well. Pierce was mostly in top form in all his movies, despite what PIERCE HIMSELF says.
    \m/
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your family
    Posts: 9,106
    chrisisall wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    It's nice to see someone else stand up for TWINE. I think it's a cracking movie and severely underrated! It's got some silly moments in it but so most of my other favourite Bond movies like GF, OHMSS, TSWLM and TLD.
    Yes, I really really like TWINE as well. Pierce was mostly in top form in all his movies, despite what PIERCE HIMSELF says.
    \m/
    I also love TWINE. Although I'm probably in the minority in saying that DAD was Pierce's best performance as Bond.
  • jake24 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    It's nice to see someone else stand up for TWINE. I think it's a cracking movie and severely underrated! It's got some silly moments in it but so most of my other favourite Bond movies like GF, OHMSS, TSWLM and TLD.
    Yes, I really really like TWINE as well. Pierce was mostly in top form in all his movies, despite what PIERCE HIMSELF says.
    \m/
    I also love TWINE. Although I'm probably in the minority in saying that DAD was Pierce's best performance as Bond.

    I agree with you that DAD was his best performance. Maybe because he was half checked out and wasn't trying too hard (as he is in GE and TWINE).

  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,104
    dinovelvet wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    TR007 wrote: »
    It's nice to see someone else stand up for TWINE. I think it's a cracking movie and severely underrated! It's got some silly moments in it but so most of my other favourite Bond movies like GF, OHMSS, TSWLM and TLD.
    Yes, I really really like TWINE as well. Pierce was mostly in top form in all his movies, despite what PIERCE HIMSELF says.
    \m/
    I also love TWINE. Although I'm probably in the minority in saying that DAD was Pierce's best performance as Bond.

    I agree with you that DAD was his best performance. Maybe because he was half checked out and wasn't trying too hard (as he is in GE and TWINE).

    I don't think he was trying too hard in any of those he just gained confidence as the films went by and got to his best in DAD, maybe its because im baissed but i think he was great in his 4 films.



  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,283
    Pierce was at his best in Die Another Day, just as Craig was at his best in Spectre.
  • 00Agent00Agent A man who drinks Dom Pérignon '52 can't be all bad.
    Posts: 3,001
    Great comparison,
    Another interesting simillarity between Skyfall and TWINE are the locations, both movies have a lot of locations shots in London and Istanbul, and also some Scottish locations (Funeral and MI6 briefing in TWINE, and the whole 3rd act in Skyfall)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    There is a good set of similarities between TWINE & SF in this previous post from another thread. It's uncanny how many there are:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/542081/#Comment_542081
    Szonana wrote:
    Quantum of Solace and Tomorrow never dies both very fun action flicks which were critizced for being an action hollywood film with Bond in it than a proper Bond film.

    My defense on both, they do have their very Bondian Moments
    Tomorrow never dies: Bond getting his gadgets from Q, the party scene and the hotel scene with Paris.
    Quantum: The opera scene, Bond At the hotel with Agent Fields and Agent fileds being killed just like Gill in Goldfinger.
    I can see the similarities in the other three, including between SP & DAD, but quite frankly, cannot see it between TND & QoS.

    QoS for me is a quirky, unpredictable revenge flick with a personal angle. In that respect, it's similar to the sophomore efforts from Connery (postcard from Russia to lure him in), Moore (bullet to lure him in), & Dalton (revenge flick after friend's wife is killed). It's smaller in scale like those other films, and less gadget-laden.

    TND is more of an all out full scale assault on the senses. A larger than life Bond, similar to TSWLM (including GPS tracking, Bond-equal from another country Bond girl, potential superpower warfare etc. etc.). In fact, I think TND would have been better left for Brosnan's last effort, as it may have been a far more appropriate sendoff to his run than DAD imho. I also see similarities to SP.

    I agree with others who say performance-wise he was best in DAD, although I personally prefer him in GE just because the film is such a blast and less of his personal acting tics are present in this film.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,104
    bondjames wrote: »
    There is a good set of similarities between TWINE & SF in this previous post from another thread. It's uncanny how many there are:

    http://www.mi6community.com/index.php?p=/discussion/comment/542081/#Comment_542081
    Szonana wrote:
    Quantum of Solace and Tomorrow never dies both very fun action flicks which were critizced for being an action hollywood film with Bond in it than a proper Bond film.

    My defense on both, they do have their very Bondian Moments
    Tomorrow never dies: Bond getting his gadgets from Q, the party scene and the hotel scene with Paris.
    Quantum: The opera scene, Bond At the hotel with Agent Fields and Agent fileds being killed just like Gill in Goldfinger.
    I can see the similarities in the other three, including between SP & DAD, but quite frankly, cannot see it between TND & QoS.

    QoS for me is a quirky, unpredictable revenge flick with a personal angle. In that respect, it's similar to the sophomore efforts from Connery (postcard from Russia to lure him in), Moore (bullet to lure him in), & Dalton (revenge flick after friend's wife is killed). It's smaller in scale like those other films, and less gadget-laden.

    TND is more of an all out full scale assault on the senses. A larger than life Bond, similar to TSWLM (including GPS tracking, Bond-equal from another country Bond girl, potential superpower warfare etc. etc.). In fact, I think TND would have been better left for Brosnan's last effort, as it may have been a far more appropriate sendoff to his run than DAD imho. I also see similarities to SP.

    I agree with others who say performance-wise he was best in DAD, although I personally prefer him in GE just because the film is such a blast and less of his personal acting tics are present in this film.


    Well the films themselves are not similar(Tomorrow never dies and Quantum)
    The similarity in these movies its just how they are seen : more action films with Bond in it than a proper Bond film but like you said the films are very different though they also share a woman Bond slept with being killed.


    As for Pierce's performance as his best im very indecisive between the last two, im indecisive with his whole tenure but the ones which give me the most trouble are the world is not enough and Die another day.

    He came to his most confident by DAD but the world is not enough is a great performance in a great Bond adventure.
    I loved die another day but i just isaid so in my OP
    This more like an Homage movie to the franchise than a proper Bond adventure though it didn't have the best script i don't mind an actor saying goodbye to the franchise with a Tribute to the fanchise movie.

    Craig might continue but could say goodbye the same way as Pierce which is not a bad send off.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Szonana wrote: »
    Well the films themselves are not similar(Tomorrow never dies and Quantum)
    The similarity in these movies its just how they are seen : more action films with Bond in it than a proper Bond film but like you said the films are very different though they also share a woman Bond slept with being killed.
    Yes, I can see your point now. They are definitely viewed as more action oriented/heavy films.
    Szonana wrote: »
    I loved die another day but i just isaid so in my OP
    This more like an Homage movie to the franchise than a proper Bond adventure though it didn't have the best script i don't mind an actor saying goodbye to the franchise with a Tribute to the fanchise movie.

    Craig might continue but could say goodbye the same way as Pierce which is not a bad send off.
    Yes, I agree here too. That is the primary similarity in my view between SP & DAD. They are both 'homage' films of a sort with throwback elements to the past. Both are perhaps reasonable sendoff films for the respective actor as well, given that aspect.

    I realize many say SF is the homage film, but I personally see SP as being more obvious in that respect, perhaps unintentionally.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CA
    Posts: 25,634
    I agree. I think that I was able to see references to all but three previous films in SPECTRE. That's three films that have been consciously loaded with homages: DIE ANOTHE DAY to celebrate the 40th anniversary of the franchise, SKYFALL to celebrate the 50th and SP, can only guess, because they made do much money doing it with SF. Let's hope that's the last of that type of film (I don't mind an occasional nod) until the 75th year.
  • Sure, structure wise there is a comparison between the four films respectively. But that's where it ends. Craig is massively ahead of Brosnan in acting ability and screen presence. His films are also all better, by far, than any of Brosnan's.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,283
    Better as in "critically"? or based on your personal opinion?
  • Posts: 11,119
    "TWINE" is my favourite Brosnan-film. Full of acting subtleties and emotions.

    However, I can't help to think that Craig still is a better actor than Brosnan. But hey, who am I? A-hole Gustav :-D!
  • Posts: 11,160
    "TWINE" is my favourite Brosnan-film. Full of acting subtleties and emotions.

    Hmm...I don't think I'd call TWINE particularly subtle in any way.
  • Posts: 11,119
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    "TWINE" is my favourite Brosnan-film. Full of acting subtleties and emotions.

    Hmm...I don't think I'd call TWINE particularly subtle in any way.

    IMO Brosnan's best Bond performance is in "TWINE". And it showed us what to expect 7 years later, on a much larger scale.

    And then there's Sophie Marceau. The best Bond girl from the Brosnan-era. Without a doubt.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Superstar
    Posts: 31,347
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Sure, structure wise there is a comparison between the four films respectively. But that's where it ends. Craig is massively ahead of Brosnan in acting ability and screen presence. His films are also all better, by far, than any of Brosnan's.

    No need for me to say it, then. Thanks.
  • Better as in "critically"? or based on your personal opinion?

    Both.

  • The_Reaper wrote: »
    Sure, structure wise there is a comparison between the four films respectively. But that's where it ends. Craig is massively ahead of Brosnan in acting ability and screen presence. His films are also all better, by far, than any of Brosnan's.

    No need for me to say it, then. Thanks.



    :D
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,104
    bondjames wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    Well the films themselves are not similar(Tomorrow never dies and Quantum)
    The similarity in these movies its just how they are seen : more action films with Bond in it than a proper Bond film but like you said the films are very different though they also share a woman Bond slept with being killed.
    Yes, I can see your point now. They are definitely viewed as more action oriented/heavy films.
    Szonana wrote: »
    I loved die another day but i just isaid so in my OP
    This more like an Homage movie to the franchise than a proper Bond adventure though it didn't have the best script i don't mind an actor saying goodbye to the franchise with a Tribute to the fanchise movie.

    Craig might continue but could say goodbye the same way as Pierce which is not a bad send off.
    Yes, I agree here too. That is the primary similarity in my view between SP & DAD. They are both 'homage' films of a sort with throwback elements to the past. Both are perhaps reasonable sendoff films for the respective actor as well, given that aspect.

    I realize many say SF is the homage film, but I personally see SP as being more obvious in that respect, perhaps unintentionally.


    I think it was intentional.
    In skyfall he made a few nods to the past for the 50th Anniversary but he didnt want to make it that obvious because he had something very specific in mind and with Spectre. I cluld see him thinking this might be Craig's last film and he proved his worth as Bond now its time yo have fun and do a big celebration to the franchise.

    50th anniversary part 2

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Szonana wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    Well the films themselves are not similar(Tomorrow never dies and Quantum)
    The similarity in these movies its just how they are seen : more action films with Bond in it than a proper Bond film but like you said the films are very different though they also share a woman Bond slept with being killed.
    Yes, I can see your point now. They are definitely viewed as more action oriented/heavy films.
    Szonana wrote: »
    I loved die another day but i just isaid so in my OP
    This more like an Homage movie to the franchise than a proper Bond adventure though it didn't have the best script i don't mind an actor saying goodbye to the franchise with a Tribute to the fanchise movie.

    Craig might continue but could say goodbye the same way as Pierce which is not a bad send off.
    Yes, I agree here too. That is the primary similarity in my view between SP & DAD. They are both 'homage' films of a sort with throwback elements to the past. Both are perhaps reasonable sendoff films for the respective actor as well, given that aspect.

    I realize many say SF is the homage film, but I personally see SP as being more obvious in that respect, perhaps unintentionally.


    I think it was intentional.
    In skyfall he made a few nods to the past for the 50th Anniversary but he didnt want to make it that obvious because he had something very specific in mind and with Spectre. I cluld see him thinking this might be Craig's last film and he proved his worth as Bond now its time yo have fun and do a big celebration to the franchise.

    50th anniversary part 2
    You may be right on this too. If that's in fact the case, then as much I like Craig as Bond, I hope they do in fact all move on, and that we start afresh with a new actor. I could look at SP more positively if that were in fact the case, because it would all make sense then.
  • SzonanaSzonana Mexico
    Posts: 1,104
    bondjames wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    Well the films themselves are not similar(Tomorrow never dies and Quantum)
    The similarity in these movies its just how they are seen : more action films with Bond in it than a proper Bond film but like you said the films are very different though they also share a woman Bond slept with being killed.
    Yes, I can see your point now. They are definitely viewed as more action oriented/heavy films.
    Szonana wrote: »
    I loved die another day but i just isaid so in my OP
    This more like an Homage movie to the franchise than a proper Bond adventure though it didn't have the best script i don't mind an actor saying goodbye to the franchise with a Tribute to the fanchise movie.

    Craig might continue but could say goodbye the same way as Pierce which is not a bad send off.
    Yes, I agree here too. That is the primary similarity in my view between SP & DAD. They are both 'homage' films of a sort with throwback elements to the past. Both are perhaps reasonable sendoff films for the respective actor as well, given that aspect.

    I realize many say SF is the homage film, but I personally see SP as being more obvious in that respect, perhaps unintentionally.


    I think it was intentional.
    In skyfall he made a few nods to the past for the 50th Anniversary but he didnt want to make it that obvious because he had something very specific in mind and with Spectre. I cluld see him thinking this might be Craig's last film and he proved his worth as Bond now its time yo have fun and do a big celebration to the franchise.

    50th anniversary part 2
    You may be right on this too. If that's in fact the case, then as much I like Craig as Bond, I hope they do in fact all move on, and that we start afresh with a new actor. I could look at SP more positively if that were in fact the case, because it would all make sense then.


    Well or it could be a restart for Craig.
    In his first Quadriology he was becoming Bond and his next films could as him finally being JAMES BOND

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Szonana wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Szonana wrote: »
    Well the films themselves are not similar(Tomorrow never dies and Quantum)
    The similarity in these movies its just how they are seen : more action films with Bond in it than a proper Bond film but like you said the films are very different though they also share a woman Bond slept with being killed.
    Yes, I can see your point now. They are definitely viewed as more action oriented/heavy films.
    Szonana wrote: »
    I loved die another day but i just isaid so in my OP
    This more like an Homage movie to the franchise than a proper Bond adventure though it didn't have the best script i don't mind an actor saying goodbye to the franchise with a Tribute to the fanchise movie.

    Craig might continue but could say goodbye the same way as Pierce which is not a bad send off.
    Yes, I agree here too. That is the primary similarity in my view between SP & DAD. They are both 'homage' films of a sort with throwback elements to the past. Both are perhaps reasonable sendoff films for the respective actor as well, given that aspect.

    I realize many say SF is the homage film, but I personally see SP as being more obvious in that respect, perhaps unintentionally.


    I think it was intentional.
    In skyfall he made a few nods to the past for the 50th Anniversary but he didnt want to make it that obvious because he had something very specific in mind and with Spectre. I cluld see him thinking this might be Craig's last film and he proved his worth as Bond now its time yo have fun and do a big celebration to the franchise.

    50th anniversary part 2
    You may be right on this too. If that's in fact the case, then as much I like Craig as Bond, I hope they do in fact all move on, and that we start afresh with a new actor. I could look at SP more positively if that were in fact the case, because it would all make sense then.


    Well or it could be a restart for Craig.
    In his first Quadriology he was becoming Bond and his next films could as him finally being JAMES BOND
    True, but he's already done that in SP. If he leaves now, he's completed his arc nicely. If he comes back it will likely only be for one more at the most in my opinion, so I wonder what he'll decide to do. Most likely it will be his call in the end.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson San Jose, CA
    Posts: 25,634
    I just want out of Craigland at this point. We need a fresh change.
  • Posts: 1,014
    Mendes has been real quiet lately, wonder if he is considering doing one more. I thought for sure we would have heard him saying he is not directing the next one.
  • I bet Craig does two more at this point, mostly based on what Waltz said about being contracted for two more. I think they all want to have another Blofeld trilogy while they still have Craig and co. involved.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf England
    Posts: 3,811
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    Sure, structure wise there is a comparison between the four films respectively. But that's where it ends. Craig is massively ahead of Brosnan in acting ability and screen presence. His films are also all better, by far, than any of Brosnan's.

    I agree both critically and personally.
  • ClarkDevlinClarkDevlin Martinis, Girls and Guns
    Posts: 15,283
    Contemporary critics do rate Pierce Brosnan's films the lowest and Daniel Craig's films on par, if not surpassing, with Sean Connery's era. Not talking about personal opinion here. However, checking some of the 15 year old articles (or older), I've come across many articles and reviews who did show major appreciation towards Brosnan's films as well as one of them went to say that Tomorrow Never Dies alone is the best Bond film to date (as of late 1997, that is.)

    Views change. And I doubt sometime later Craig's films will be seen with supreme delight as they are now. Remember, back in the day people loved You Only Live Twice, but now it's not a favourite among the Bond fans, and overall combining fan opinions (both the appraisals and negativism), it's an average Bond film.

    Now... In my personal opinion, I do like Daniel Craig's films and I do enjoy them heartily. But, there is no chance that his films, in my opinion, are more entertaining than Brosnan's era. Call me a lunatic, insane or even an idiot if you like, but personally, Brosnan's films and the plots were good enough for me to enjoy Bond for what he has been in the cinematic universe. Over-the-top at times, extremely escapist but not ridiculous (mostly). That's me, however, speaking for myself. And not for the others.
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