What next for Madeleine Swann

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  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    If she is not killed off, then what does she do? Either she drives the plot (kidnapping? yawn) or she is just baggage, you cant have Bond with a girlfriend in the background ("sorry, dear, going to be home late, don't wait up"), writing a really good Bond script is obviously very very hard but they have made it ten times harder with the situation that we have been left with.

    Glass half empty/half full. It also gives you the chance to do something never done in a Bond film. There's a lot you can do with Madeleine.
  • Posts: 4,602
    OK, three creative/new things they can do with MS? I cant think of one.
  • Posts: 1,631
    RC7 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    If she is not killed off, then what does she do? Either she drives the plot (kidnapping? yawn) or she is just baggage, you cant have Bond with a girlfriend in the background ("sorry, dear, going to be home late, don't wait up"), writing a really good Bond script is obviously very very hard but they have made it ten times harder with the situation that we have been left with.

    Glass half empty/half full. It also gives you the chance to do something never done in a Bond film. There's a lot you can do with Madeleine.

    Agreed. There is plenty that can be done with her, even if some of it isn't entirely original. It wouldn't be as though it would have to be a case of Bond being domesticated and dragging Madeleine around with him everywhere he went. I think their relationship, even if they didn't quite earn the "I love you" towards the end, was the best part about Spectre. There's no reason why the dynamic between them couldn't be similar moving forward.

    Someone around here yesterday had a solid idea of having her kidnapped after SPECTRE attacks her and Bond early in the film, only with M telling Bond that she was killed, allowing him to move forward for the rest of the picture thinking she's dead, only to discover towards the end that she in fact isn't. Not sure how the middle of the film would go, but it would set up a great opportunity for an amnesia ending that would really be a punch to the gut.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    They could have Maddy have a child from a previous relationship who SPECTRE kidnaps.

    Far fetched? Well apparently not as much as you may think. This was allegedly one of Paul Haggis's rejected (thankfully) ideas for QoS - just replace Maddy with Vesper and SPECTRE with QUANTUM.
  • Posts: 11,119
    I talk a lot....A LOT....of crap anyway :-).

    So let's get rid of Craig. Dump him. And reboot again. Complete new adventure. Better :-)?
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    patb wrote: »
    OK, three creative/new things they can do with MS? I cant think of one.

    Firstly, I write for a living so don't tend to share story ideas. Secondly, there's actually no point sharing ideas because people have made their mind up on this subject. Thirdly, there's some debate to be had on here over what constitutes a good idea. I've heard some generic piffle lauded as genius.
  • Posts: 4,602
    In terms of pure Bond (and as a DC fan) I have to say that a completely clean slate with a new Bond does seem the right route IMHO , such a shame that DC's time has to end like this. What a mess
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    It does seem like a time for new beginnings, what with new studio involvement and all. I've always felt this way, even back when wrist slasher was making the news. The winds appear to be blowing cleanly in that direction in my eyes at least.
  • Posts: 11,119
    RC7 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    OK, three creative/new things they can do with MS? I cant think of one.

    Firstly, I write for a living so don't tend to share story ideas. Secondly, there's actually no point sharing ideas because people have made their mind up on this subject. Thirdly, there's some debate to be had on here over what constitutes a good idea. I've heard some generic piffle lauded as genius.

    Well, this is a forum. Not the EON-sharedrive of Neal Purvis & Robert Wade :-).
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    RC7 wrote: »
    patb wrote: »
    OK, three creative/new things they can do with MS? I cant think of one.

    Firstly, I write for a living so don't tend to share story ideas. Secondly, there's actually no point sharing ideas because people have made their mind up on this subject. Thirdly, there's some debate to be had on here over what constitutes a good idea. I've heard some generic piffle lauded as genius.

    Well, this is a forum. Not the EON-sharedrive of Neal Purvis & Robert Wade :-).

    Ah, the old whipping boys.
  • gumboltgumbolt Now with in-office photocopier
    Posts: 153
    I started this thread (and I'm really thrilled it has proven so popular - thanks guys) with the suggestion MS could infact be a baddie. She might fake her death and return to her secret life as a Spectre agent - but one who wants to overthrow Blofeld in revenge for killing her father. What might be more fun is the audience knowing before Bond does. Would love to hear any further views on this general idea. There are ways that certain developments in SP can be retconned or just interpreted to make this add up - at least, to an extent.
  • Posts: 4,602
    Seeing the DC Bond grieving again is just too much IMHO , and the audience not sharing that as they know she is not dead just would not work. I am struggling to think of examples throughout the whole series where the audience is ahead of Bond, just dont think it would work.
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 1,631
    The idea of her as a villain just simply wouldn't work. The reason is in the question, as if you have to retcon anything, it's not worth doing. Case in point: Spectre.
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 498
    I suppose... Spectre could frame her as a villain, and Bond doesn't know if he can trust her or not, and that ends up destroying their relationship?
  • gumboltgumbolt Now with in-office photocopier
    Posts: 153
    Interesting question about the audience being ahead of Bond - I suppose the true identity of Grant in FRWL and the treachery of Prof Dent in DN are the most obvious examples but I am struggling beyond that. Apart from, briefly, Graves' true identity in DAD but we don't want to go there! But in many ways that would make it so much cooler. But my idea about MS being a baddie has not earned one single supportive post! I really should pitch this to Eon then...
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,588
    jackdagger wrote: »
    I suppose... Spectre could frame her as a villain, and Bond doesn't know if he can trust her or not, and that ends up destroying their relationship?

    That's something that could be interesting.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    gumbolt wrote: »
    But my idea about MS being a baddie has not earned one single supportive post! I really should pitch this to Eon then...
    It's not a bad idea. I just would prefer they dump this whole angle and move on so that's why I haven't wholeheartedly supported your admittedly inventive premise. I'm also all 'retconned' out I'm afraid, post-SP.
  • SarkSark Guangdong, PRC
    Posts: 1,138
    patb wrote: »
    The fact that this thread is so long and there is a broad consensus is a good indication that the MS character is a real issue. It's as if the script writers had no respect or care for the poor so and so's who have to pick up the batton and come up with a new and exciting script. As others have said, they are in a very tight corner and a new Bond seems to be one of the the easier options. It would be a real shame if DC does have one more movie left in him but he cant come back as MS presents such issues. Its another black mark against Spectre for me (and look how wonderfully SF set up the next movie with all the characters in place but so much room for imaginative, fresh plot lines)

    That would be ironic, as it's likely to be P&W writing again, is it not? So they may have boxed themselves into this corner.
  • Posts: 1,631
    If we don't want to go the route of having Madeleine killed off because it sets up the revenge angle that we all seem to be tired of, the idea of retconning her into being a villain ventures down familiar territory as well. Bond's already been betrayed by the woman he loves, Vesper, in Casino Royale. He also seems to feel betrayed by M in Skyfall for ordering Moneypenny to take the shot, even if that's short-lived. Retconning Madeleine into a villain ventures down a similar road.

    After how poorly retconning worked out in Spectre, I would hope that EON would never venture down that path again.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,696
    dalton wrote: »
    After how poorly retconning worked out in Spectre
    I totally liked that! It wasn't poor at all IMO.
    (see what I did there?)

  • Posts: 1,631
    Anything I type here is merely my opinion. I'm not passing anything off as fact (unless sourced, of course, and even then that's not always the case). The "IMO" is implied by the mere fact that this is a forum where we meet to express our opinions.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited January 2016 Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote: »
    dalton wrote: »
    After how poorly retconning worked out in Spectre
    I totally liked that! It wasn't poor at all IMO.
    (see what I did there?)

    @chrisisall, I believe you snappily argued your point in a pithy and reasonable fashion by underscoring that your view, just like the views of everyone else on this forum, is simply an opinion and not a scientific fact with the inclusion of the acronym IMO. Or thereabouts.... :D
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited January 2016 Posts: 6,002
    doubleoego wrote: »
    pachazo wrote: »
    If they know going into it that its Craig's last film then I hope they choose to ignore continuity and just try to come up with the best story possible.

    They should be doing this regardless.

    I'm not really interested in seeing Swann again. Lesser Bond girls have created a bigger impact and resonated a greater sense of significance for me. The good thing is, it's not hard to move on from Swann, her absence can be conveyed through a facial expression from Bond and we'll know all we need to know things didn't work out. Bond's sense of duty to his country is too overwhelming for him to ignore so he's constantly pulled back into the life of a spy/assassin that doesn't fit in with the life that Swann envisions and as such, they part and Bond is back to doing his job. Let's get in a new female lead and let's experience a thrilling story worth telling.

    This could work. Q mentions MS and Moneypenny shushes him, or vice versa. It would get rid of Madeleine, and give the MI6 players something to do.

    Frankly, I thought the only chemistry that played was hers with her father (even though they never shared a scene).
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,696
    dalton wrote: »
    Anything I type here is merely my opinion. I'm not passing anything off as fact (unless sourced, of course, and even then that's not always the case). The "IMO" is implied by the mere fact that this is a forum where we meet to express our opinions.
    Yeah, sorry, I just like SPECTRE so much that I am sometimes predisposed to an overreactively protective and defensive posture regarding negative comments as to its content and/or overall quality.
    ;)
  • Posts: 1,631
    For what it's worth, I enjoyed Spectre as well when I was in the theater. It was only after I started looking back at it and realizing what the ramifications of it were for the rest of Craig's films that my opinion of it began to sour a bit.

    When left completely on its own, it's a serviceable to solid film. It doesn't reach the heights of the previous Craig films, but it's fun. I do think it would be interesting to see if I felt that way had someone else gotten the role of Madeleine, as I seem to have reached the conclusion that most of what I liked about Spectre derived from Lea Seydoux selling me on a character that the writers didn't really do much for.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,696
    dalton wrote: »
    I do think it would be interesting to see if I felt that way had someone else gotten the role of Madeleine, as I seem to have reached the conclusion that most of what I liked about Spectre derived from Lea Seydoux selling me on a character that the writers didn't really do much for.
    Funny, she did nothing for me in MI: Ghost Protocol but I loved her in SP... :-?
  • Posts: 1,680
    The only interesting capacity she could serve in another film is her skills as a Dr.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,696
    Tuck91 wrote: »
    The only interesting capacity she could serve in another film is her skills as a Dr.
    Not getting the reference here... :-??
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,333
    Bond 25: Dr. Swann. ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2016 Posts: 17,696
    Murdock wrote: »
    Bond 25: Dr. Swann. ;)
    Oh. Yes of course.
    8-}
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