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Craig: stay or go? has SPECTRE changed any opinions?

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  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,588
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Just a thought on the Madeleine farewell and the non reaction of Bond.

    We know, DC can do emotion very well. In this case, there was none. IMO that was deliberate. If we see Bond from CR to Sp, they might have wanted to show him progress from being able to convey emotion, to give his heart away to moan his love in the next, having more emotional "garbage" in SF and now, when they wanted to give him the full round, he doesn't do emotion any more. Certainly not on display. He finally hardened himself.
    Giving up his professional life isn't necessarely based on his undying love for Madeleine but more about jumping (pun intended) on a good reason to finally do it.
    There are these little but great subtleties in the film. Before Bond and M are ambushed, there's a small shot focused on Bond looking pensive and trying to comprehend what had happened seconds earlier when Madeleine left him. It's a small moment but definitely excellent. After the death of Vesper, and then M, it's no surprise that Bond is emotionally shut down, and this was a moment for Craig to show of his emotion acting in a less obvious way. And he nailed it.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    jake24 wrote: »
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Just a thought on the Madeleine farewell and the non reaction of Bond.

    We know, DC can do emotion very well. In this case, there was none. IMO that was deliberate. If we see Bond from CR to Sp, they might have wanted to show him progress from being able to convey emotion, to give his heart away to moan his love in the next, having more emotional "garbage" in SF and now, when they wanted to give him the full round, he doesn't do emotion any more. Certainly not on display. He finally hardened himself.
    Giving up his professional life isn't necessarely based on his undying love for Madeleine but more about jumping (pun intended) on a good reason to finally do it.
    There are these little but great subtleties in the film. Before Bond and M are ambushed, there's a small shot focused on Bond looking pensive and trying to comprehend what had happened seconds earlier when Madeleine left him. It's a small moment but definitely excellent. After the death of Vesper, and then M, it's no surprise that Bond is emotionally shut down, and this was a moment for Craig to show of his emotion acting in a less obvious way. And he nailed it.

    I agree, but it's also convenient for Madeleine to be out of it at that point so that she can get captured by Blofeld.
  • GermanladyGermanlady
    edited December 2015 Posts: 6,601
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Just a thought on the Madeleine farewell and the non reaction of Bond.

    We know, DC can do emotion very well. In this case, there was none. IMO that was deliberate. If we see Bond from CR to Sp, they might have wanted to show him progress from being able to convey emotion, to give his heart away to moan his love in the next, having more emotional "garbage" in SF and now, when they wanted to give him the full round, he doesn't do emotion any more. Certainly not on display. He finally hardened himself.
    Giving up his professional life isn't necessarely based on his undying love for Madeleine but more about jumping (pun intended) on a good reason to finally do it.
    There are these little but great subtleties in the film. Before Bond and M are ambushed, there's a small shot focused on Bond looking pensive and trying to comprehend what had happened seconds earlier when Madeleine left him. It's a small moment but definitely excellent. After the death of Vesper, and then M, it's no surprise that Bond is emotionally shut down, and this was a moment for Craig to show of his emotion acting in a less obvious way. And he nailed it.

    I agree, but it's also convenient for Madeleine to be out of it at that point so that she can get captured by Blofeld.

    Not fishing for straws here, but t me, this does make sense. She sees in the office, how they are talking business. That so strongly reminds her, what his business is and she feels, she can't do it and leaves.
    Then gets captured and AFTER that emotional turmoil, it totally makes sense, that after a near death experience, she feels, it doesn't matter anymore. Grab what you have and don't give a damn.
    Life is too short to worry.
  • tanaka123tanaka123
    Posts: 4,325
    Germanlady wrote: »
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    jake24 wrote: »
    Germanlady wrote: »
    Just a thought on the Madeleine farewell and the non reaction of Bond.

    We know, DC can do emotion very well. In this case, there was none. IMO that was deliberate. If we see Bond from CR to Sp, they might have wanted to show him progress from being able to convey emotion, to give his heart away to moan his love in the next, having more emotional "garbage" in SF and now, when they wanted to give him the full round, he doesn't do emotion any more. Certainly not on display. He finally hardened himself.
    Giving up his professional life isn't necessarely based on his undying love for Madeleine but more about jumping (pun intended) on a good reason to finally do it.
    There are these little but great subtleties in the film. Before Bond and M are ambushed, there's a small shot focused on Bond looking pensive and trying to comprehend what had happened seconds earlier when Madeleine left him. It's a small moment but definitely excellent. After the death of Vesper, and then M, it's no surprise that Bond is emotionally shut down, and this was a moment for Craig to show of his emotion acting in a less obvious way. And he nailed it.

    I agree, but it's also convenient for Madeleine to be out of it at that point so that she can get captured by Blofeld.

    Not fishing for straws here, but t me, this does make sense. She sees in the office, how they are talking business. That so strongly reminds her, what his business is and she feels, she can't do it and leaves.
    Then gets captured and AFTER that emotional turmoil, it totally makes sense, that after a near death experience, she feels, it doesn't matter anymore. Grab what you have and don't give a damn.
    Life is too short to worry.

    Yeah I agree. And I really like the idea of choice between his job and having a 'life' that started in CR. It's awhile now since I saw Spectre, just thinking back it seems to be a bit contrived that last act. I need to see it again.

  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    timmer wrote: »
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    I wonder if Blofeld has any underwear?

    Maybe we shall know in B25,

    Mendes needs to offer up a full explanation of the no socks matter on dvd commentary

    ....and he probs doesn't wear undwewear

    I wonder does Mendes wear socks and underwear?
    This madness come from some.somewhere.

    Blofeld put his socks down his pants to impress Madeleine.
  • SerialHitmanSerialHitman Plotting my revenge
    Posts: 45
    Craig could definitely do Bond 25 and I think he could still do Bond 26 after that before finally bowing out. I know he'll be in his early fifties by the time Bond 26 comes out but Craig is one of those tough actors I could imagine doing action at a slightly older age, much like Liam Neeson who's in his sixties! Plus the audience wants him back, including me. I'd be very happy to see Craig playing Bond until 2021. One thing that they should do in the next movie is let him grow out his hair out. The Ivy League Buzzcut he wears in SF and SP doesn't look very good on him and only highlights his obviously receding hairline.
  • The_ReaperThe_Reaper
    Posts: 1,092
    No one says crap about Tom Cruise doing another MI film. He's 53 now and nobody complains. Craig is in great shape, looks fantastic, and I'm pretty positive he'll do one more, maybe two.
  • SerialHitmanSerialHitman Plotting my revenge
    Posts: 45
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    No one says crap about Tom Cruise doing another MI film. He's 53 now and nobody complains. Craig is in great shape, looks fantastic, and I'm pretty positive he'll do one more, maybe two.

    Yeah I forgot about Tom Cruise, he's another good example. They can all carry off action very well. The big question is, can Craig be bothered to put himself through another good years worth of murdering himself? He's not a bodybuilder like Stallone or Schwarzenegger whose main selling point is their ability to perform action, Craig's an actor who is capable of much more.

    The other big question of course is women, they're going to have to start casting more age appropriate women (of which there are plenty) for him to play opposite. I think I speak for everyone here when I say I don't want a repeat of AVTAK.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    Go. This just isn't my idea of Bond (let alone even slightly bearing any similarity to the literary Bond), so i'm all for recasting Bond, sooner rather than later. For that reason, I have not seen Spectre whole, so my stance on the Craig era is unchanged.


    Also, Tom Cruise looks younger than he is, Craig does not. So with that in mind, I think Cruise can get away with another MI film.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Also, Tom Cruise looks younger than he is, Craig does not. So with that in mind, I think Cruise can get away with another MI film.

    Cruise if a force of nature because his 2015 self in Rogue Nation could demolish his 1996 self in the original M:I.

    Never would I have thought when I saw Collateral in 2004 that Cruise would be this credible in action movies 11 years later.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Also, Tom Cruise looks younger than he is, Craig does not. So with that in mind, I think Cruise can get away with another MI film.

    Cruise if a force of nature because his 2015 self in Rogue Nation could demolish his 1996 self in the original M:I.

    Never would I have thought when I saw Collateral in 2004 that Cruise would be this credible in action movies 11 years later.

    I see where you're coming from, but I like the intricate, smaller scope of that first film. Though recently, MI3 knocked the original into 2nd place as my favourite MI film.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2015 Posts: 15,690
    @MajorDSmythe I really enjoy all 5 M:I films, including M:I:2 which is one of the films I have watched the most times in my life.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    @MajorDSmythe I really enjoy all 5 M:I films, including M:I:2 which is one of the films I have watched the most times in my life.

    I like all 5 as well. MI2 might be my least favourite, but even that one has it's good points. MI2 is also the only MI film that i've seen in the cinema. I don't know why... it's probably because I don't go to the cinema that much anymore. And with the gap between cinema release and home release shorter than it's ever been, I tend to wait until it's released on DVD.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    @MajorDSmythe I really enjoy all 5 M:I films, including M:I:2 which is one of the films I have watched the most times in my life.

    I like all 5 as well. MI2 might be my least favourite, but even that one has it's good points. MI2 is also the only MI film that i've seen in the cinema. I don't know why... it's probably because I don't go to the cinema that much anymore. And with the gap between cinema release and home release shorter than it's ever been, I tend to wait until it's released on DVD.

    I agree, I've only seen 5 films in the cinema in the last 2 years - Edge of Tomorrow, Interstellar, Taken 3, Spectre, Star Wars: The Force Awakens
  • SerialHitmanSerialHitman Plotting my revenge
    Posts: 45
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Go. This just isn't my idea of Bond (let alone even slightly bearing any similarity to the literary Bond), so i'm all for recasting Bond, sooner rather than later. For that reason, I have not seen Spectre whole, so my stance on the Craig era is unchanged.


    Also, Tom Cruise looks younger than he is, Craig does not. So with that in mind, I think Cruise can get away with another MI film.

    I see where your coming from, although one thing I like about the these new films is they have a little more continuity attached to them, something the novels often featured, and since CR we've been watching Craig's Bond evolve from a 00 agent at the beginning of his career, so I think it would be nice to see him come full circle.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    Bond didn't need 3 let alone 4 movies to come full circle. His arc should have been done by the end of QoS.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Bond didn't need 3 let alone 4 movies to come full circle. His arc should have been done by the end of QoS.

    IMO that's the big difference between Connery and Craig. Because Connery not only sold his take on the character, but created the whole character and it's legacy in his introduction scene.

  • GermanladyGermanlady
    Posts: 6,601
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Bond didn't need 3 let alone 4 movies to come full circle. His arc should have been done by the end of QoS.

    IMO that's the big difference between Connery and Craig. Because Connery not only sold his take on the character, but created the whole character and it's legacy in his introduction scene.

    Yes, if you create a character and dont change.

    If you want a character having an arc, it cant be done in one scene or ne or two films. At least it depends where you start and where you want to end.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Bond didn't need 3 let alone 4 movies to come full circle. His arc should have been done by the end of QoS.
    I agree. Arguably his personal arc was in fact completed with QoS though- at least in my mind. Even in CR it can be said, with QoS just finishing up some business regarding Vesper.

    It's just that Mendes has chosen to focus on melodrama & family connections / history since, but Bond himself has been somewhat unperturbed by all the palaver that has surrounded him in both SF & SP, unlike in the first two, where the focus was more on him & his personal development.
  • SerialHitmanSerialHitman Plotting my revenge
    Posts: 45
    bondjames wrote: »
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Bond didn't need 3 let alone 4 movies to come full circle. His arc should have been done by the end of QoS.

    I don't actually mean arc in terms of the movies, I mean in terms of Bond himself and his age. He starts off young and reckless and should end a little older and a little wiser, showing he has completed his journey to becoming the traditional James Bond we all know. It could even be implied he is ready for retirement, but of course he won't, he'll just be replaced with a younger actor as always and the cycle will begin all over again.
  • The_ReaperThe_Reaper
    edited December 2015 Posts: 1,092
    bondjames --Mendel didn't write the scripts, did he?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    The_Reaper wrote: »
    bondjames --Mendel didn't write the scripts, did he?
    No, but he certainly had quite a bit of influence on them. To be clear, Mendes is on record saying that he insisted on Dench being killed before he got involved in SF, and his boy (Logan) was very involved in the Blofeld scripting for SP with Mendes' blessing and involvement prior to the whole thing going to Sony for review, when, as far as I'm aware, all the issues were noted.

    So however you look at it, Mendes was instrumental in the melodrama and family connections business in both SF (mansion past)/SP.

    PS: The statement in the above post from @SerialHitman appears to be coming from me, but it's his comment.
  • SerialHitmanSerialHitman Plotting my revenge
    Posts: 45
    Yes I'm not sure how that happened.
  • The_ReaperThe_Reaper
    Posts: 1,092
    Fair enough.
    :P
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,979
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Also, Tom Cruise looks younger than he is, Craig does not. So with that in mind, I think Cruise can get away with another MI film.

    Cruise if a force of nature because his 2015 self in Rogue Nation could demolish his 1996 self in the original M:I.

    Never would I have thought when I saw Collateral in 2004 that Cruise would be this credible in action movies 11 years later.

    Cruise is Dorian Gray in oh so many ways.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    echo wrote: »
    DaltonCraig007 wrote: »
    MajorDSmythe wrote: »
    Also, Tom Cruise looks younger than he is, Craig does not. So with that in mind, I think Cruise can get away with another MI film.

    Cruise if a force of nature because his 2015 self in Rogue Nation could demolish his 1996 self in the original M:I.

    Never would I have thought when I saw Collateral in 2004 that Cruise would be this credible in action movies 11 years later.

    Cruise is Dorian Gray in oh so many ways.

    His 'deal' comes up for re-negotiation in a couple of years, and there will be Hell to pay.... :P
  • SharkBaitSharkBait
    edited December 2015 Posts: 2,107
    Now, more than ever, I want Craig to return. Even though Spectre did wrap up his tenure nicely. But I won't be torn up about it if he decides that he's done with Bond.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Haha, anyone seriously thinks Craig won t be back?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I think he's done, honestly.
  • SharkBaitSharkBait
    Posts: 2,107
    I have a little itch Barbara can reel him in one more time.
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