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Thomas Newman (stay/go)

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  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I'm indifferent. I liked the score although the action scoring was too loud in places.

    As expected, his music fits the associated scenes like a glove.....almost imperceptibly flows with what one sees on the screen.....I liked that.

    I'm open to him staying but I'm not wed to the idea. He didn't disappoint but perhaps we need new talent to take this forward.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,552
    I wouldn't necessarily advocate a return of Arnold, although I wouldn't protest against it either. I merely think there are other musical forces at work in film nowadays, many of whom could produce a decent Bond score. Michael Giacchino, Christopher Drake, Henry Jackman, Junkie XL, ... Some of these people would deliver an impressive score! I'd prefer Giacchino to be frank. His scores for M:I III and IV, Jupiter Ascending, Jurassic World, The Incredibles (!), Star Trek... are all great IMO and some of them bring a bit of Bondian magic in the spirit of John Barry.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I'm completely in agreement @DarthDimi, there are excellent composers out there who could do wonders with Bond.

    I just don't know if EON have the ability to figure it out though. Arnold was a Barry recommendation and they stuck with him for ages (even through some pretty shabby scores during the Brosnan era imho) and then they went with Newman because he was Mendes' man.

    So they may just go with whoever the next director recommends rather than search out a suitable best-in class composer. It looks like they are placing more priority on the title song these days (to get a hit for marketing purposes) than on the scoring, and that's a shame.

    As I said above, I thought Newman was ok with SP & with SF. I am not disappointed with his work. The action scoring could have been better but everything else was fine to my ears.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited November 2015 Posts: 23,552
    I'm beginning to suspect, @bondjames, that no-one but Barry had it in him to keep the Bond music fresh and magical and to actually improve films that would otherwise have gone totally off balance. MR's score is its own saving grace; probably the main reason why I love MR so much is the music. Had MR been given a score like NSNA, I would have personally gone after all existing copies and burn them. But Barry elevated MR to something far more entertaining than it probably deserves to be.

    Nowadays, until they find the next Barry, if he even exists, it might be wise to allow each director to bring the composer he feels most comfortable working with. A different composer for each movie might at the very least keep things interesting... ;-)
  • 0iker00iker0
    Posts: 501
    I liked what Newman did with both films. And as I want Mendes to return, I want Newman to return as well.
  • ZekidkZekidk
    Posts: 3,169
    Murdock wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    That said, re-using some cues from the previous film isn't problematic at all. Barry re-used the 007 theme too. Someone threw some Monty Norman in the FRWL score - twice. The music works. But hey, it's a film for grown-ups. I guess some people expect the Bond Theme to play in every scene, even when Bond sits down for an emotional chat with a woman.

    The thing is, Barry never reused any music cues. Everytime the 007 theme was used, It was a new original arrangement.
    Wasn't the 007-theme in both DAF and MR the exact same arrangement?
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,331
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Murdock wrote: »
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    That said, re-using some cues from the previous film isn't problematic at all. Barry re-used the 007 theme too. Someone threw some Monty Norman in the FRWL score - twice. The music works. But hey, it's a film for grown-ups. I guess some people expect the Bond Theme to play in every scene, even when Bond sits down for an emotional chat with a woman.

    The thing is, Barry never reused any music cues. Everytime the 007 theme was used, It was a new original arrangement.
    Wasn't the 007-theme in both DAF and MR the exact same arrangement?

    Nope.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,552
    I don't think the re-use of music is an issue. Even the great John Williams re-used music in the Star Wars prequels, and pretty directly I might add. ;-) It's not a problem if it happens in small doses. Excessive re-use of music happened with Goldenthal's scores for the two Schumacher Batman films.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,331
    It was too excessive in SPECTRE.
  • GeneralGogolGeneralGogol
    Posts: 928
    I am deeply disappointed in the score. The action cues for the Rome car chase and Austrian plane chase screamed for at least subtle use of the Bond theme. Granted, it appeared in plenty of other cues. But the loudness of the techno action score was at times worse than Arnold, and far less melodic. And quite frankly I am shocked at how Newman got away with using that much of the Skyfall score. Just wondering, but would he be disqualified from any "Best Original Score" award nominations? David Arnold in Quantum of Solace-mode would have elevated Spectre a lot in my books.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,331
    I can't wait for it to come out on video so fans can rescore it with better proper Bondian music.
  • CrabKeyCrabKey
    Posts: 1,518
    The thing I least remember from SP is the music. Was there even a s Spectre theme? Other than a brief instrumental nod to the theme song, nothing grabbed my attention. Saw Sicario a few nights ago and the music practically had a starring role. If Newman is hired again, he should be required to watch and listen to GF. Specter begged for blaring horns and mood. Instead, we got SF part two. Newman definitely should go.
  • timmertimmer
    Posts: 4,622
    Go!
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    Having now seen SP, I can definitively say "Go". Newman was the wrong choice for the Bond franchise.
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    I look forward to the return of a composer who not only writes the soundtrack to a Bond movie, but also has at least a hand in writing the theme song too. This means that the composer will have a greater control over using theme song melodies as leitmotifs without copyright issues rearing their ugly heads. This is one of the main reasons why the title song has been left off several soundtrack albums from recent Bond movies.

    Whilst I know this is ostensibly a production decision, if Thomas Newman either doesn't see himself as a songwriter or prefers to leave the task of the theme song to other, more bankable popular artists, then he should go.
  • youonlylivethriceyouonlylivethrice
    Posts: 117
    I loved his score for SF, Severine's theme being my favorite. SP's score, for a change, was lazy and uninspired and the fact that I was listening to almost the same thing 3 years later annoyed me a bit. Newman, it's time to go.
  • AntiLocqueBrakesAntiLocqueBrakes The edge
    Posts: 538
    Quick point: I like the score in the humorous sequences early in SP. Really got to see how the right music set the tone for the scene.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Newman's score was inoffensive but nothing special. I wouldn't shed a tear upon his departure. I understand that we'll never get Barry back but why not see what someone else can bring to the table? What do we have to lose?
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    pachazo wrote: »
    Newman's score was inoffensive

    Yes in it own right it was. What wasn't inoffensive was the overall laziness in copying his own SF cues.

    Yes Barry repeated the Bond theme and 007 but as Murdock points out he always rearranged them.

    In addition to recurring motifs though, in each film he always crafted some new action cues - the track that accompanies the beach and bobsleigh fight in OHMSS, He's Dangerous from AVTAK or the Necros theme in TLD.

    The problem with Newman for me is his action cues are the weakest part of his (decent) SF score for me. Apart from the moment where the Hagia Sophia mosque comes in to view the rest of the action is scored very averagely. It's with tracks like Tennyson, New Digs and when the yacht is approaching Silva's island that he really delivers so if you were going to repeat anything repeat those Thomas not your bland action music.

    Bottom line if you are going to copy something make sure it's worthy of repetition. Just off the top of my head if we had had He's Dangerous for the helicopter fight, a full blown orchestral rendition of the Bond theme for the plane crash and the OHMSS theme used in the trailer for the climax on the Thames then I would have been happy.

    I can't see us discussing some of Newman's SF action cues as classics in the coming years so if you can't come up with something original at least steal from Barry rather than yourself mate.
  • 0iker00iker0
    Posts: 501
    I think that the repetitions that I noticed where fully justified within the story.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    SP has its share of problems ,which we will no doubt analyze to death on here once everybody calms down and starts becoming more objective.

    Thomas Newman's score, while certainly bland in the action sections, is the least of the issues with the film imho. The pretitles score in itself is up there with the best that any composer has offered up in the 50 yr history of this franchise.
  • luigimikeleluigimikele
    Posts: 3
    I'm really disappointed with the scores. In fact, he used the same in Mexico Helicopter fight and Rome Car Chase. And if you listen carefully and the end of the score is the same pretitle sequence score in Skyfall. Lack of creativity. I really miss David arnold. They should look for someone like him. Thomas Newman shoild leave.
  • JNOJNO Finland
    Posts: 135
    It depends on a director? I won´t lose my sleep if he goes, but I´m not fond of getting Arnold back, also. Maybe he´s had his run.

    It would be a good idea to bring some new blood in. Maybe there is a "John Barry II" somewhere... since the franchise is taking steps towards the more traditional Bond films, there should also be some room for more classical Bond music, in a Barry style.
  • cooperman2cooperman2 Uk
    Posts: 372
    I remember reading somewhere that the tank chase sequence in GoldenEye was re-scored by John Ottoman because Serra's original version wasn't up to scratch. As that is a great piece of music I say give him the whole film. If Newman goes good riddence. The music works OK within the movie but as a soundtrack its pretty poor. Just not Bondian enough
  • DariusDarius UK
    Posts: 354
    JNO wrote: »
    Maybe there is a "John Barry II" somewhere... since the franchise is taking steps towards the more traditional Bond films, there should also be some room for more classical Bond music, in a Barry style.

    Don't I wish! Unfortunately, there's no new Barry out there that I know of.

    Unless anyone knows better...

  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,347
    I loved Skyfall's soundtrack, but SPECTRE's reuse of many of the same SF tracks was quite distracting and disappointing for me. There needed to be more variation. I appreciate his contributions, but I'd like David Arnold back now.
  • cmacy007cmacy007
    Posts: 20
    Usually love Newman.. But why reuse so much of the Skyfall score?
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    Posts: 7,653
    Like Arnold whose two soundtracks post Pierce were more miss than hit I would like Newman to be replaced because his music is so bloody average that as a standalone listening experience it puts me to sleep.

    I can only hope that the 18th December Star Wars will kick of an exciting bombastic and original soundtrack and that it for EON will be a wake-up call to hire an exciting new composer that brings back the excitement that used to be the trademark of teh EON soundtracks.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,552
    But @SaintMark, they bring back Williams for Star Wars. I'm not sure that encourages EON to start testing new waters. ;-)
  • SaintMarkSaintMark
    edited November 2015 Posts: 7,653
    But Williams does go for a big sound while EON have gone for boring sound the last four movies.
    I am quite sure that had Barry still lived they had already had him back and the fans would be going bananas. (in a positive way)
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