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Where does Bond go after Craig?

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  • ColonelAdamskiColonelAdamski UK
    Posts: 1,007
    mtm wrote: »
    We all like the films. And I would imagine the amount of fans who discovered the books before they saw the films are now a tiny, tiny minority. For most of us, the films are why we like Bond. We love the books too, they're great: but the films made us love Bond first, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I'd love to know the amount of people that will have bought the NTTD DVD/Blueray/Download, compared to the number of people that'll buy the next Horowitz Bond novel.

    A hundred to one? A thousand to one? Perhaps even more?

    I don't think modern Bond movie fans are great Fleming/Bond readers. Where's the No Time to Die novelisation?
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,059
    Denbigh wrote: »
    Actually, just wondering, how popular are the novels these days? Beyond us fans.

    Well they're regularly reprinted in paperback editions, that must go beyond hard-core fans and collectors.

  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,990
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I had a choice of spending two days in Dover or Oxford, and I chose Oxford. So no.

    You chose well!
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited February 2022 Posts: 14,990
    ColonelAdamski wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    We all like the films. And I would imagine the amount of fans who discovered the books before they saw the films are now a tiny, tiny minority. For most of us, the films are why we like Bond. We love the books too, they're great: but the films made us love Bond first, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I'd love to know the amount of people that will have bought the NTTD DVD/Blueray/Download, compared to the number of people that'll buy the next Horowitz Bond novel.

    A hundred to one? A thousand to one? Perhaps even more?

    Well it seems like -in the UK anyway (which may well be the strongest market)- Horowitz's last book sold around 20,000 copies in hardback in the first four or five weeks (plus a print run of 50,000 in the US), whereas No Time To Die sold (a frankly quite amazing) 1.15 million copies in just the last two weeks of 2021.
    So in the same period of the first two weeks (where FAAD sold 11,000 copies), it's about a hundred and five to one, yes; you're right.
  • ColonelAdamskiColonelAdamski UK
    edited February 2022 Posts: 1,007
    So for every one hundred and fifteen people in the UK that bought a NTTD DVD/BlueRay/download, one person bought Forever and a Day?
    That's surprisingly high on the book side. I suppose if you take in torrents for the film and actual cinema visits, the 115/1 ratio would be much crueler to the novel.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,990
    I guess it doesn't include rentals either. I'm sure FAAD had some people borrowing it from the library, but I doubt that many!
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,571
    mtm wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The only period films I would be interested in are strict adaptations of the Fleming novels, with little to none of the EON specific elements that made their films unique from the novels. They’d be made without any of the reverential nostalgia you’d typically see in period films. Zero pop culture references. Basically the complete opposite of that Guy Richie’s THE MAN FROM UNCLE.

    I wouldn't be interested in even that to be honest. The books are great to read, but the films add so much to make them good viewing experiences. The radio adaptations rather show to me how dry period adaptations without the Eon additives would be (and they even still added Q to one of them).
    Venutius wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The only period films I would be interested in are strict adaptations of the Fleming novels, with little to none of the EON specific elements that made their films unique from the novels. They’d be made without any of the reverential nostalgia you’d typically see in period films. Zero pop culture references. Basically the complete opposite of that Guy Richie’s THE MAN FROM UNCLE.

    My vote's for an adaptation of Moonraker set in 1955 and filmed in black and white. Even if it was only on streaming, to distinguish it from the films. Bezos could finance it out of pocket change tomorrow and not miss it. Probably.

    It's the one which makes the most sense as it's fairly low budget, but my goodness there's a lot of bridge to get through.

    OK let's assume they do accomplish some editing and not simply film the book as if it were the script, even if it were made into a long-form streaming tv project. So, what I am suggesting -- you know what's coming and, trust me, I'm getting there -- is that they would edit out some of the bridge-playing. After all, too much screen time devoted to it might feel too "done already" with CR '06's poker scenes only a few films back. In other words - and thank you for your patience - they will burn some of that bridge when they get to it....(whew ! exhausted)...
  • LucknFateLucknFate 007 In New York
    edited February 2022 Posts: 1,434
    Doesn't the BBC fairly regularly air audiobook versions of Bond stories voiced by real actors? I believe Toby Stephens did a production of Moonraker or something over radio a few years ago?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited February 2022 Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I had a choice of spending two days in Dover or Oxford, and I chose Oxford. So no.

    I have been to both, and besides London those are the only places I have been in England. (and Stockford-on-Trent, which is close to Oxford)
  • BirdlesonBirdleson
    Posts: 2,161
    Just Oxford and London for me (though I got see a large sampling of the land from the window of the Eurostar).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,990
    Since62 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The only period films I would be interested in are strict adaptations of the Fleming novels, with little to none of the EON specific elements that made their films unique from the novels. They’d be made without any of the reverential nostalgia you’d typically see in period films. Zero pop culture references. Basically the complete opposite of that Guy Richie’s THE MAN FROM UNCLE.

    I wouldn't be interested in even that to be honest. The books are great to read, but the films add so much to make them good viewing experiences. The radio adaptations rather show to me how dry period adaptations without the Eon additives would be (and they even still added Q to one of them).
    Venutius wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The only period films I would be interested in are strict adaptations of the Fleming novels, with little to none of the EON specific elements that made their films unique from the novels. They’d be made without any of the reverential nostalgia you’d typically see in period films. Zero pop culture references. Basically the complete opposite of that Guy Richie’s THE MAN FROM UNCLE.

    My vote's for an adaptation of Moonraker set in 1955 and filmed in black and white. Even if it was only on streaming, to distinguish it from the films. Bezos could finance it out of pocket change tomorrow and not miss it. Probably.

    It's the one which makes the most sense as it's fairly low budget, but my goodness there's a lot of bridge to get through.

    OK let's assume they do accomplish some editing and not simply film the book as if it were the script, even if it were made into a long-form streaming tv project. So, what I am suggesting -- you know what's coming and, trust me, I'm getting there -- is that they would edit out some of the bridge-playing. After all, too much screen time devoted to it might feel too "done already" with CR '06's poker scenes only a few films back. In other words - and thank you for your patience - they will burn some of that bridge when they get to it....(whew ! exhausted)...

    But if you start editing it and changing it it won’t be the strict adaptation folks are asking for.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited February 2022 Posts: 5,985
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The only period films I would be interested in are strict adaptations of the Fleming novels, with little to none of the EON specific elements that made their films unique from the novels. They’d be made without any of the reverential nostalgia you’d typically see in period films. Zero pop culture references. Basically the complete opposite of that Guy Richie’s THE MAN FROM UNCLE.

    I wouldn't be interested in even that to be honest. The books are great to read, but the films add so much to make them good viewing experiences. The radio adaptations rather show to me how dry period adaptations without the Eon additives would be (and they even still added Q to one of them).
    Venutius wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The only period films I would be interested in are strict adaptations of the Fleming novels, with little to none of the EON specific elements that made their films unique from the novels. They’d be made without any of the reverential nostalgia you’d typically see in period films. Zero pop culture references. Basically the complete opposite of that Guy Richie’s THE MAN FROM UNCLE.

    My vote's for an adaptation of Moonraker set in 1955 and filmed in black and white. Even if it was only on streaming, to distinguish it from the films. Bezos could finance it out of pocket change tomorrow and not miss it. Probably.

    It's the one which makes the most sense as it's fairly low budget, but my goodness there's a lot of bridge to get through.

    OK let's assume they do accomplish some editing and not simply film the book as if it were the script, even if it were made into a long-form streaming tv project. So, what I am suggesting -- you know what's coming and, trust me, I'm getting there -- is that they would edit out some of the bridge-playing. After all, too much screen time devoted to it might feel too "done already" with CR '06's poker scenes only a few films back. In other words - and thank you for your patience - they will burn some of that bridge when they get to it....(whew ! exhausted)...

    But if you start editing it and changing it it won’t be the strict adaptation folks are asking for.

    +1

    It's easy, and reflexive, to revere Fleming but most of the books have digressions and significant plot holes. At various times, the films have turned out better than the original source.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,869
    Yeah I personally prefer when they use elements of the novels in new ways and disguise them in the context of their own film. Like the stairwell fight scene in Casino Royale basically being ripped and adapted from the Live And Let Die novel.
  • Since62Since62
    Posts: 1,571
    echo wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Since62 wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The only period films I would be interested in are strict adaptations of the Fleming novels, with little to none of the EON specific elements that made their films unique from the novels. They’d be made without any of the reverential nostalgia you’d typically see in period films. Zero pop culture references. Basically the complete opposite of that Guy Richie’s THE MAN FROM UNCLE.

    I wouldn't be interested in even that to be honest. The books are great to read, but the films add so much to make them good viewing experiences. The radio adaptations rather show to me how dry period adaptations without the Eon additives would be (and they even still added Q to one of them).
    Venutius wrote: »
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    The only period films I would be interested in are strict adaptations of the Fleming novels, with little to none of the EON specific elements that made their films unique from the novels. They’d be made without any of the reverential nostalgia you’d typically see in period films. Zero pop culture references. Basically the complete opposite of that Guy Richie’s THE MAN FROM UNCLE.

    My vote's for an adaptation of Moonraker set in 1955 and filmed in black and white. Even if it was only on streaming, to distinguish it from the films. Bezos could finance it out of pocket change tomorrow and not miss it. Probably.

    It's the one which makes the most sense as it's fairly low budget, but my goodness there's a lot of bridge to get through.

    OK let's assume they do accomplish some editing and not simply film the book as if it were the script, even if it were made into a long-form streaming tv project. So, what I am suggesting -- you know what's coming and, trust me, I'm getting there -- is that they would edit out some of the bridge-playing. After all, too much screen time devoted to it might feel too "done already" with CR '06's poker scenes only a few films back. In other words - and thank you for your patience - they will burn some of that bridge when they get to it....(whew ! exhausted)...

    But if you start editing it and changing it it won’t be the strict adaptation folks are asking for.

    +1

    It's easy, and reflexive, to revere Fleming but most of the books have digressions and significant plot holes. At various times, the films have turned out better than the original source.

    Seriously ? I'm not saying I'm Richard Pryor-funny over here, but do you not realize my post was a long-winded joke ? A way to just reach and reach to get to the point of making a pun -- a play on words -- on "burning bridges" ? I even point it out twice: "you know what's coming and, trust me, I'm getting there" and "and thank you for your patience", reflected on with "whew ! exhausted". OK, fine if you do not find it funny, but is comprehension really THAT absent in these boards ??? Are they populated largely by fans -- fanatics, more to the point -- who take ALL this stuff wayyyyy too seriously ? The books and films are entertainment, folks.
  • Risico007Risico007
    Posts: 9,779
    I just don’t like period peices for bond even Fleming made bond contemporary by including Ursula Andress in ohmss and she didn’t become a sensation till 62….


    This idea of going back to the 50’s or 60’s in novel and movie form is poor in my opinion the only exception is video games as certain films deserve a game even though the technology wasn’t available or was quite poor

    (Come on ohmss and license to kill would be amazing)

    But beyond that bring bond into now
  • CrzChris4CrzChris4
    edited February 2022 Posts: 462
    I hope they bring back some of the suaveness and sophistication that Craig has lacked since CR. I’m not looking for cheesiness, but I think some levity and dry humor is needed. I say Casino Royale because Craig comes off rather charming and witty (Bahamas, Venice) but it seems like they moved further and further away from that with each additional movie. It might not have helped that Craig seems like he’s not the most comfortable with that.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited February 2022 Posts: 2,934
    Yes, Craig was far more suited to the deadpan black humour of QOS ('So shoot me. I'd rather stay in a morgue') than the weak gags of the later films ('I got in some deep water', etc). I wish they'd kept the darker humour after QOS, although 'Not the first thing I thought you'd take off' and 'I've just shown someone your watch' tickled the hell out me, tbf.
  • CrzChris4CrzChris4
    Posts: 462
    Venutius wrote: »
    I wish they'd kept the darker humour after QOS, although 'Not the first thing I thought you'd take off' and 'I've just shown someone your watch' tickled the hell out me, tbf.

    Quite a few of the gags worked for me in NTTD, both of those included. In fact, how Craig portrays Bond up until he re-meets Blofeld is the closest we got to a continuation of his Casino Royale performance I believe. There are some visual gags as well that I liked, like Q taking the time to pack a tea cup and accessories in styrofoam packing. It’s a blink and you’ll miss it moment as he is rummaging around for the smartblood.
  • JimjambondJimjambond
    Posts: 328
    I really hope the next film recapture the tone of CR. I feel like it captures the perfect balance of everything a Bpnd film needs.
  • Jordo007Jordo007 Merseyside
    Posts: 2,520
    Jimjambond wrote: »
    I really hope the next film recapture the tone of CR. I feel like it captures the perfect balance of everything a Bpnd film needs.

    +1
  • delfloriadelfloria
    Posts: 1,708
    ColonelAdamski wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    We all like the films. And I would imagine the amount of fans who discovered the books before they saw the films are now a tiny, tiny minority. For most of us, the films are why we like Bond. We love the books too, they're great: but the films made us love Bond first, and there's nothing wrong with that.

    I'd love to know the amount of people that will have bought the NTTD DVD/Blueray/Download, compared to the number of people that'll buy the next Horowitz Bond novel.

    A hundred to one? A thousand to one? Perhaps even more?

    I don't think modern Bond movie fans are great Fleming/Bond readers. Where's the No Time to Die novelisation?

    Where is the novelization to all the Craig films? That would make a great stand alone series. You are right as to way there is none.............................there is no market for them any more. A sad state of affairs I'm afraid.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 8,040
    A novelisation of the Craig series would be nice as the authors usually have license to deviate from what was presented in the finished films, so they could fix/expand on some of the niggling plot threads. It would especially benefit Spectre, where we could get a firmer grasp on the updated organisation.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    Posts: 5,869
    CraigMooreOHMSS wrote: »
    A novelisation of the Craig series would be nice as the authors usually have license to deviate from what was presented in the finished films, so they could fix/expand on some of the niggling plot threads. It would especially benefit Spectre, where we could get a firmer grasp on the updated organisation.
    I'd really want to see Quantum of Solace expanded but the problem there is I think I'd want the additions to be substantial as I've always said Quantum is like a good first draft - in my opinion.
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    In my novelization of QOS, the organization is just straight up named SPECTRE. It doesn't even matter that Bond learns the name that early on, because they're essentially the same organization anyway. It's only in SP where he finally learns WHO had been running it all this time.
  • mattjoesmattjoes
    Posts: 6,747
    I think Bond 26 should begin with Bond brooding over Vesper. Having a drink while looking at a photo of her. Whaddaya think?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    mattjoes wrote: »
    I think Bond 26 should begin with Bond brooding over Vesper. Having a drink while looking at a photo of her. Whaddaya think?

    It has to be during his time as a rogue agent. Tanner committed suicide after being discovered as the traitor. Bond never sleep with anyone in the entire film. The gun barrel sequence is actually in post-credits, promising the return of Bond back in the service, only to open up with Bond already rogue.
  • BirdlesonBirdleson
    edited February 2022 Posts: 2,161
    I hope that we never hear mention of Vesper again.
  • FoxRoxFoxRox
    Posts: 12,274
    https://getyarn.io/yarn-clip/92cea2ce-8d05-4342-98a7-da758446528b
  • MaxCasinoMaxCasino United States
    edited February 2022 Posts: 4,121
    A repost from a couple of years ago, relating to novelizations:

    I think that now Daniel Craig is done, and since all his movies connect, they should write them into one big novel. They could write it Moonraker style, with each movie being the day of week, in style to MR. An author that could write it would be Bruce Feirstein. He’s had success with writing Bond movies and video games, why not give him a big book to try? He could even put in Bloodstone, as that’s his work as well. Maybe title it: Once Upon a Spy, as a homage to Skyfall’s original title.

    https://www.joe.co.uk/entertainment/mark-gatiss-wants-to-reimagine-james-bond-317000
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I hope that we never hear mention of Vesper again.

    I hope they truly ditch Dame Judi Dench for good, after her portrait showing in NTTD. All she did was yell at Bond and make bad decisions and blame others for them. I know I’m beating a dead horse here, but I hope some of the higher ups at Amazon tell EON no Purvis and Wade. I know a lot of people don’t care about Double or Nothing by Kim Sherwood, but I’m happy that it doesn’t have P & W’s “professional” Bond influence and experience.
  • RevelatorRevelator
    Posts: 2,896
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I hope that we never hear mention of Vesper again.

    Since the Craig era had its own continuity and had a definite beginning and end, Vesper would not exist in the new Bond's timeline. Since she only existed for Craig-Bond, there would be no reason to mention her in future Bond films, unless we get James Bond: No Way Home. Then all bets are off. CGI Sean Connery could be revealed as the real father of Mathilde, who goes back in time to become the mistress of at least four different Blofelds.

    Incidentally, why are people discussing film novelizations? Those died out 20 years ago.
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