Then and Now; This Week - Spectre

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  • DoctorKaufmannDoctorKaufmann Can shoot you from Stuttgart and still make it look like suicide.
    Posts: 1,261
    DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER

    Then:
    My first Bond movie at the cinema was OCTOPUSSY. In the mid-1980s, German television started showing the Bond movies, two per year. The most recent Bond movies on TV then was YOLT. Then I rented DAF from the video shop BEFORE OHMSS was screened on TV. SO I was a little bit confused about beginning of the movie. YOLT ended in Japan, so now Bond was still/again (?) in Japan, but why was he so keen on killing Blofeld? And I must say, the whole movie confused me (at the age of 16), who were Wint and Kidd, and what was going on? Why did they have another actor as Blofeld? Las Vegas? Willard Whyte? I had to watch it twice, but still did not get all of the stuff. The humour was kind of corny. The movie did not rank high in my Bond movie list. Some weeks later, OHMMS was aired on TV with that Bond actor fella I never had heard of (the only actor I knew back then was Telly Savalas). And I must say, I did not like OHMSS back then, it then improved over the years, but the movie felt too long, the romantic stuff was not my cup of tea, and then the sad ending. But at last I now understood the openings scenes of DAF.

    Now:
    I watched DAF various times over the years, it slightly improved, but not really, it's No-16 on my list out of 23, and probably will go down at least one rank once I watched SP. OHMSS however now is No. 7 on my list. Despite the romantic stuff and Lazenby.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited August 2015 Posts: 45,489
    I first saw DAF in the cinema sometime in the 1980s. I loved it, it didn t bother me that this was a follow-up to the perfect OHMSS. Charles Gray was an enjoyable Blofeld, Mr Wint and Mr Kidd the best henchmen ever, the theme song had been among my favourites since I heard an instrumental version at a very young age.

    All that still holds true, it is the blatant flaws that have annoyed me more for each viewing, like Bambi and Thumper, Willard Whyte, the oil rig finale, the daft gadgets and convenient stupid conincidenses (Mankiewicz stuff, most of it I believe).

    For those reasons, and because it looks much more awesome on a big screen:

    My vote is then.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Watching Diamonds as a kid was a hoot! This was in the 80's now, for those of you keeping score. I watched all of the films out of order so I had no idea this was the follow up to OHMSS. Which, upon further reflection, is the only way to fly. I'll touch on that in a moment.

    I can distinctly remember the hovercraft; for some odd reason I found it fascinating. Wint and Kidd, of course, were highly memorable. I can remember being confused at the time as to why they were holding hands. I was in awe of Circus Circus. Too bad it's kind of a dump now. On that note, The Riviera is no longer with us. Plenty, you'll always be in my heart. The burning coffin scene was riveting...until it wasn't. Even then I thought it was kind of a cheap way out. Bambi and Thumper were odd. How could they beat up James Bond?

    Ultimately, the Barry score and the presence of Sean Connery made this a winner for me. I'm sure I nodded off during some scenes but it was entertaining on the whole. These days, despite it's numerous flaws, I can still find enjoyment in it as a standalone adventure. It's horrendous as a sequel to OHMSSS, to say the least. Just don't do it. Don't watch them back to back. Under no circumstances!

    All kidding aside, I have to give this a THEN. It's fun but dumb, not unlike our dear Plenty.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,545
    As a kid I really loved DAF. Of course I did. A Bond film starring Sean Connery. That was enough. Right? But DAF was also one of the first Bond films I turned against in my teens, despite watching it on a regular basis. It upset me how annoyingly silly it was at times. Nowadays, I watch it in a completely different fashion, as a fun ride on the roller-coaster of outrageous comedy. That may or may not be a compliment though...

    So I guess it's a Then for me too.

    Then - 6
    Now - 0
  • edited August 2015 Posts: 3,333
    Then:
    This was my second Bond feature that I saw as a new release on the big screen. By this stage I had already caught up with the older Bonds on double bills, so was quite happy to see the "original" 007 back for this venture. There are certain things I recall from this period: the TV spots showcasing the action and title song between runs of On The Buses and various other light-entertainment ITV shows back in '71; the smattering of giant billboards across London and the Home Counties with the superb poster artwork reminding you that there was a new Bond film in town; the Dinky toys; the DAF cinema brochure, plus the general buzz of Connery returning. This was the movie every kid in class wanted to see, though some parents would deem it too violent for their children and would sadly miss out on the experience.

    I recall taking my seat in the flea-pit cinema adjacent to the huge one I saw OHMSS in, which I thought was a bit odd for a new 007 blockbuster. I can't quite recall what was showing in the bigger cinema across the road that kept Bond out from his rightful home, but think it was A Clockwork Orange from hazy memory?

    DAF had already started, but in those days you could enter a flick at anytime and watch the missed section on the next performance. I can still remember the moment we took our seats: it was the funeral scene where Bond ends up in the casket about to be burnt to a cinder. Of course we stayed for the next showing to complete the section we'd missed, but ended up watching the whole thing again for no extra cost, may I add. Of course I loved it back then. I didn't have any of the hang-ups that modern kids have about ageing actors like they do today, where everyone must look airbrushed and botoxed to within an inch of their lives. Peple get old, folks. So what if he didn't look as young as he did in GF? Connery was back and meaner than before, and this Bond was current and wearing what people on the streets were wearing. That being said, I do recall I felt the oil-rig climax fell a bit short of how I wanted it to be, but I did like the deaths of Wint & Kidd afterwards. Overall I thought it was a great movie back in '71 and it felt very fresh and current, unlike my previous viewings of Dr No, GF, TB, FRWL and YOLT on their respective double bills. This was a Bond for the 70's, less square and more hip.

    Now:
    I still love this movie. Yes, I can see its faults, its flaws and plot-holes, but it's still an enjoyable movie with a cracking good score. I also don't quite get the hate it receives today when there's other Bond movies I'd put below it: AVTAK, MR, DAD, TMWAGG to name but a few. But then again, not everyone can have taste. Sure, it's dated, a time capsule of the period it was made in, but then so are Roger Moore's Bond movies.

    Then: 5
    Now: 4
  • Posts: 3,333
    Oh, I see @Birdleson. I thought the score was more reflective as in how we rated it then and how we rate it now after all these years. I think therefore your scoring system is perhaps open to critical injustices. Of course no movie can be better than the very first time you saw it as it's no longer fresh. Your scoring makes it look like I think it a much lesser movie now when I only think it's dropped marginally in my appreciation. Sorry for the confusion.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Oops, there I go again. Sorry, @Birdleson. I can now see it's @royal65 and @DarthDimi that created these rules.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited August 2015 Posts: 4,421
    *Edited for unnecessarily offensive remark. It was only mean as an "add on". The real reason for this thread was to let members reflect and compare.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,545
    "Rules" is such an ugly word. :-) This is isn't a context or anything. :-)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Birdleson wrote: »
    @bondsum ,nice write up. But you have the scoring wrong. You have to chose to add one point to the running total of either Now or Then. Since you have the higher score to Then, I assume that's your pick. So we're at:

    Now-7
    Then-0

    I think that would be

    Then-7
    Now-0

  • Let me state my agreement with @Birdleson's pitch awhile earlier for ANYONE who's enjoying this thread to check out SirHenryLeeChaChing's "For Original Fans" thread. Lotsa good stuff there! And just as a teaser, here's my posting from few years back about my own first viewing of DAF:

    ...on Christmas Eve of 1971, when a friend showed up at my door urging “C’mon, let’s get out of here! Let’s go see Diamonds Are Forever! It’s got the REAL James Bond in it, you know!” I made hasty excuses to my assembled parents and grand-parents. We piled into his older brother’s rattle-trap of a car, and tooled off to the local drive-in to see the REAL James Bond one more time. However…we didn’t actually DRIVE into the drive-in. Instead, we parked the car on the street just past the theatre’s exit…and as the “coming attractions” played, we crouched down and snuck in through the exit that was barricaded against cars trying to come through without paying…but of no use against a silent band of agents on foot! The half-full field of cars filled with paying customers took no note of us, and we were crouched too low to be seen by drive-in personnel. We hunkered down in the loose gravel of an unclaimed parking space, grabbed a few tinny-sounding speakers and brought them as close as could be managed…and proceeded to watch the movie, bundled up against the cool of the California winter night. It was my one and only covert operation with the mission of A View to a Free James Bond movie…and it was a complete success!

    Do I regret my youthful indiscretion now, from the perspective of an older and supposedly wiser man? Well…not really. It was an adventure I’ll always remember, one that I like to think Bond himself might have undertaken in similar circumstances. Would I make reparations if I could? Possibly…but the drive-in itself has long ago closed, and Eon Productions has seen its fair share of my hard-earned money in the years since. Does it excuse me that my friend and his brother had not informed me of the caper’s plan until we were actually parked behind the theatre, and my only other option was to wait in the car alone until they returned? It doesn’t really matter; what happened, happened; I took part in it and lived to tell the tale. There was no champagne and no girl to kiss at the end of the adventure…but the next day I opened my Christmas presents surrounded by my family. The greatest Christmas gift I received that year was a story I can tell today.


    So: just in terms of adventures' sake, there's no way any subsequent viewing can live up to the excitement of that first one. Rack up another point for THEN!

    THEN: 8
    NOW: 0
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited August 2015 Posts: 4,421
    Great story @Beatles. Did you see a smashed up cab, driven by a shot guy and Limey, while you at the drive-through, per chance? And, SirHenry's thread is the best on this forum if anyone wants to check it out.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Birdleson wrote: »
    (DAF counts too, I guess, @chrisisall )
    I squeezed in there by the skin of my teeth...
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Anymore thoughts on DAF before I move this on?
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    royale65 wrote: »
    Anymore thoughts on DAF before I move this on?
    No, let s round it off with this great DAF track from 1982

    As weird as the movie.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Very surreal
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    Allow me to quickly sneak in before you move on and add something to the NOW side.

    Then:
    Words cannot describe how poorly this film sat with me on first viewing. Cheesy, cheap looking in a 70's tv show kind of way, I was sorely disappointed. I think I first saw this one in the mid 80's, and really was grateful that Connery had been replaced by Moore....not a moment too soon I thought. I wasn't a fan of Jill St. John either (although I do have a penchant for redheads normally). Wint & Kidd were fun, as was Gray's Blofeld, and I liked Bambi & Thumper, but the relatively cheap production values did not impress, particularly compared to all the other films in the canon.

    Now:
    It's gone up with every viewing for me. Yes, all the things I didn't like before are still there, but I've grown to accept them with each viewing, and now can better appreciate all the little gems in this film. Connery is far more engaged than he is in YOLT, and even the drab, oversaturated 70's look is more acceptable to me now. Bond's lines are just amazing in this film, only rivaled by the unsurpassable (...in that respect anway) TB. I'll admit to not fully catching the "Plenty O' Tool" the first time out. Now, it's just precious.

    Then: 8
    Now: 1
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Nice one @bondjames

    Now, @4EverBonded wasn't DAF your first Bond film? ;-)
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited August 2015 Posts: 4,421
    Right then on to...

    Live and Let Die

    Then
    I got this in conjunction with Diamonds Are Forever on VHS. You know, “Buy Bond...” And indeed those two films are quite similar – both have an urban feel, both have overt humour, yet both have an oddly dark ambiance etc. And I ranked them side by side. Not the greatest of Bond films, but entertaining nonetheless.

    Now-
    Live and Let Die is consistent in both my ranking and my opinions of it since I first saw it. An enjoyable blend of voodoo danger and witty dialogue. Granted Live and Let Die could have done without Sheriff Pepper, but one the whole I find the picture one of the most colourful outings for Mr. Bond.

    Tie
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited August 2015 Posts: 45,489
    It was the summer of 1983. Me and some cousins had gotten my uncle to rent us a Bond film. The choice was LIVE AND LET DIE. It was only the 4th Bond film I saw, but soon enough I ended up making out with my 14 y. o. cousin and didn t pay much attention to the film. Had to rent it again a couple of years later to get anything out of it.

    For that reason alone I have to give it a now vote.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Making out with your cousin while watching a James Bond movie...interesting
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Live And Let Die was one of many Bond movies I saw first on VHS circa 1990 after seeing OP, AVTAK, TLD and LTK at the cinema.
    Other movies like Moonraker, The Spy Who Loved Me, Dr. No and especially Thunderball and OHMSS were more impressive for me. So LALD was kind of one of the "other" James Bond movies.

    But that changed quite a bit of course when I got to know the Bond movies by heart in the mid-nineties.

    Now I can say, that LALD has a some of my most favourite sequences/scenes of all of the Bond movies.
    They are the iconic Crocodile scene, the speedboat police car chase with Sheriff Pepper and the introduction to Roger Moore as Bond in his flat which is simply priceless.
    Still even if I like that movie very much it is only No 21 in my ranking as there are 20 other Bond movies that are slightly better.
    TMWTGG and DAF are the ones below LALD.

    Then: didn't impress me much
    Now: a guilty pleasure of mine because of the above mentioned scenes and others.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,545
    I'm gonna go for 'then'. I still like LALD but primarily because I think Jane Seymour is the loveliest Bond girl that ever graced the screen. Other than that, the awesomeness that I felt from this film as a kid is mostly lost because nowadays I actually pay attention to the script.

    Then: 1
    Now: 2


    @Thunderfinger, kissing cousins, huh? :D Where do you live and how do I get there without too much delay?
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited August 2015 Posts: 23,883
    LALD has always been one of my favourites.

    It's quite quirky imho, and different. I felt it was somewhat sinister on earlier viewings, because I found the baddies in NYC to be quite intimidating, particularly Tee Hee & some of the other goons, including the cab driver with the big mischievous grin. I absolutely loved Martin's score (one of the best, if not the best non-Barry score in a Bond film....it added to the ominous feeling).

    I agree with DarthDimi that Jane Seymour is a knockout in this film, and I think this is the only time Bond actually deflowered someone. I found Kananga suitably dangerous, and was really scared of Mr. Big in the early days (loved the MI style mask too!).
    --

    Nowadays it's lost a little of its appeal, mainly because the things that I found a little intimidating/scary when younger don't have the same impact any more. I still think it's one of Moore's best performances, and all the things I liked about it still remain in effect but some of the luster has worn off. So I'm a Then. Still a great Bond film though.

    Then: 2
    Now: 2
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited August 2015 Posts: 7,314
    I love Live And Let Die. Always have, always will. It might actually be my most viewed Bond film. Sometime in the late 80's I had taped it off TBS. Remember when TBS used to have Bondathons? They would play two Bond movies each night for a week and then even more on the weekend. I thought that I had heard about Ted Turner being a huge Bond fan. Can anyone confirm that?

    Anyway, I had seen other Moore outings at this point but I was completely unprepared for how much I would enjoy The Die. It's like when you have your first crush. The power of what is happening is beyond your comprehension and it's not even fair how completely helpless you've become to the intoxicating effects of her charms. It's not that far off from how I would describe Ms. Solitaire! Jane Seymour will always be my favorite Bond girl.

    Even as a lad I could see the difference in Rog's performance. There was a youthful enthusiasm (funny, because he was like 45) that wasn't present in his later efforts. For the record, I do adore his mature take on the role in FYEO but first things first. This movie is so much damn fun! I watched it over and over and over. Even I was surprised by how I wasn't getting sick of it. Only the original Star Wars film had more repeat viewings at that point in my life.

    I made my best friend watch it and he was never too impressed with Moore. He was a Connery guy (In those days you were either one or the other) and he eventually had Lazenby as his favorite. I think he pretended to like it because I was cooler than him. Oh well, his loss. Needless to say, everything about this film struck the right chord with me. Moore was never more debonair. Solitaire was a sultry tigress in disguise. Hell, Jane is still hot.
    The cast of villains is one the best ever still to this day. What's not to like?

    If I'm honest, and I am, how could a repeat viewing ever match love at first sight again? It just can't. As much as I love LALD, the first time was the best. Mark me down for a THEN. Secret Agent? ON WHOSE SIDE!?!?!?

    Then: 4
    Now: 2
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,875
    Live And Let Die

    Then
    Bizarrely LALD never really grabbed me in my youth. It was a film I felt was a mediocre entry in the series. The voodoo theme never appealed to me. But I think mainly me incredible fear of snakes was what put me off the debut feature of Roger Moore. Thus, this was one of my least watched films in the series. It did have the boat chase along with some more witty dialogue similar to that of DAF. But for many years it fit middle of the road in my ranking.

    Now

    As with some of the other films in the series (YOLT, DAF and on my last viewing FYEO) LALD has come leaps and bounds in my rankings. It's a stunning film, far superior to the final Connery movie. Roger Moore is very, very good in this debut film. The scene where he enters the Fillet of Soul in Harlem is super cool. No fear, full of confidence. A stiff assed Brit!
    The dialogue is as good as that of DAF, with Moore easily playing to the more humorous nature when called for. The villains are as @pachazo mentioned some of the best of the series. The action is stunning for '73, and Jane Seymour. What's not too like.
    David Hedison gives us one of the best Felix Leiter interpretations if not the best!
    The music is big, loud and fits perfectly. I even enjoy the voodoo story angle. All in all, this is a great Bond film, that has awesome rewatchability. And I didn't even mention the wonderful Clifton James.
    "What are you boy, some kind of doomsday machine."

    Then :4
    Now :3
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    I'm gonna go for 'then'. I still like LALD but primarily because I think Jane Seymour is the loveliest Bond girl that ever graced the screen. Other than that, the awesomeness that I felt from this film as a kid is mostly lost because nowadays I actually pay attention to the script.

    Then: 1
    Now: 2


    @Thunderfinger, kissing cousins, huh? :D Where do you live and how do I get there without too much delay?

    It s just a kiss away.
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Sorry I have been AWOL from this thread and mostly MIA from the forum!
    I don't know when I will catch up, but I'll try over the next 2 weeks.

    Yes, @royale65 - DAF was my first Bond film, age 15, in the theater. It dazzled me, I wanted to live in that world and look like Jill St. John; I thought it was ultra fab. Then I grew up and my opinion about that Bond film changed. But it was a fun intro to James Bond for me, yes. ;)
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Anyone else wants to chime in with their thoughts on LALD, before I move this on?
  • I delayed for quite awhile seeing LALD -- I'm afraid I just couldn't accept another actor as Bond at first. Waited until I could see it on a double bill with TMWTGG. Probably wasn't fair to LALD -- or to Sir Roger -- as TMWTGG was (in retrospect) a much more disappointing take on Bond than was LALD. Still, that was the way of it, no changing the past...so I'll wait until we start in on GOLDEN GUN to give my full view of them both. Bottom line: a vote for "NOW" on LALD and a vote for neither on TMWTGG, easily in my bottom 5 among Bond films...
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