Music in SPECTRE

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  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    There's this version of it.
  • Posts: 313
    I was skeptical of Newman when he was announced for Skyfall, but I had been appreciative of his scores (though I wasn't a big listener). Now after listening to his scores for SF and SP, he's grown on me. I love his sound. Very similar to Hans Zimmer, yes, but maybe that's why I love his music. It may sound taboo of me to say but I think I prefer Newman to Arnold. No disrespect to Arnold, but I can only listen to CR and QOS.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,289
    Newman did not distract in SPECTRE, but he added no flash either.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Well the last 4 soundtracks in 007 franchise have been poor with a few highlights to be honest but when compared to the earlier soundtracks, which I own actually [not the two Newmans] but including CR & QoB, I find there nothing to enjoy.

    Compare that to the Williams "The Force Awakens" soundtrack I bought upon release, why because it is so bloody energetic and SW.

    And that has been my beef with Craig era when it comes to music, too lackluster and the best music was actually written for the opera so a borrower from a brilliant composer [better than Barry I would say]. The music compartment does need a kick in the behind and could use some original and exciting talent.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    OmegaX wrote: »
    Time for my rant haha =p

    My stand is that SPs score is worse than SF. I loved Newman's work in SF (probably my favourite), thus i was very surprised to hear SP's score. To me, SP's score was very much based on percussion, with no real melody, and out of those melodies, many were lifted from SF, with no change in rhythum, the keys, even the instruements involved. From the motorcycle chace soundtrack used in the car chace, to "Mother" used in Bonds apartment, to "Shes Mine" used in helicopter scene. However, i do appreciate how SP's score mirrors that of SF in one track, "Brave New World" of SF and "The Eternal City" of SP. Listen to them both back to back and u can see the similarities, but they're not identical.

    Now, the new original melodies. The most obvious would be the car chase (C D Eb D D Eb F#) but the melody that plays when we are introduced to Rome (G F# Eb D) is very striking as well. However, it pales in comparison with the Shanghai track in SF (C# G# F#). The new remix of the Bond theme is nicely done too (E G Eb D, E G Eb F#). BUT WHERE IS THE THEME FOR SPECTRE? OR BLOFELD? Come on Newman, you have a chance to create a theme as iconic as Bond, or Hydras theme! Its a big waste of an opportunity, which would add to the film a lot (imagine a theme playing each time Spectre appears on screen)

    In conclusion, i think my main problem with SP's score would be that it has many recycled tracks (referencing is one thing, copying is another) and depends too much on percussion.
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Sorry but for me, I find Newman's work in Bond to be mostly trash.

    Even his Bond theme is either reusing Arnold or doing a remix version of it and even then it's all half arsed because we don't even get the full theme. Why was this man hired? As for reusing music from SF, he's not the only one that does this and it's fine if the music is good; case in point, John Williams but Williams is a musical genius and his work is beyond magnificent so he can get away with it not to mention he creates new original pieces but Newman isn't Williams...not even close and should therefore stay in his lane and put the work in and create something of note and worth before trying to immortalise his lame sounds with unwanted repeats. The man had no excuse with SP and he failed. Good riddance to the guy.

    You both are pretty much spot on here, although I consider your 'good riddance' comment a tad premature @doubleoego. Babs will move heaven and earth to get Mendes back and if he returns I'm afraid we're stuck with Newman again.

    Given his name is being bandied about I'll ask the obvious question seeing as no one else seems to want to: why not John Williams? Is his fee that prohibitive? Did he once come out in an interview and say he regarded it as Barry's gig?

    Given the calibre of acting talent we are hiring these days in terms of Bardem, Waltz and Fiennes why not go for probably the greatest film music composer of all time too?

    It would be fantastic to see what he could come up with and I am 100% confident he would turn in something that elevated the film several notches instead of taking it down several notches a la Newman.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2015 Posts: 7,595
    You both are pretty much spot on here, although I consider your 'good riddance' comment a tad premature @doubleoego. Babs will move heaven and earth to get Mendes back and if he returns I'm afraid we're stuck with Newman again.

    Given his name is being bandied about I'll ask the obvious question seeing as no one else seems to want to: why not John Williams? Is his fee that prohibitive? Did he once come out in an interview and say he regarded it as Barry's gig?

    Given the calibre of acting talent we are hiring these days in terms of Bardem, Waltz and Fiennes why not go for probably the greatest film music composer of all time too?

    It would be fantastic to see what he could come up with and I am 100% confident he would turn in something that elevated the film several notches instead of taking it down several notches a la Newman.

    That would be a dream come true for me, although I do think it would be Williams' own decision to not do it that would be a clincher. I doubt he could be talked around.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I was watching Mr. Brooks with Kevin Costner (an interesting film by the way) the other day, and noticed the score, which I found memorable. A little google search indicated it was an early work by Ramin Djawadi, who has since gone on to score the Game of Thrones & Iron Man.

    The Mr. Brooks score isn't orchestral at all. In fact it's almost Nine Inch Nails sounding, but I could tell he had potential when watching the film. His Game of Thrones score is outstanding, and is very orchestral.

    This is what I expect someone at EON to be doing. Doing some scanning of the up and comers and trying to see who has potential. This year, Johann Johannsson really impressed me with the Sicario score.

    PS: on a related note, there is a great song at the end of Mr. Brooks as well, by The Veils entitled Vicious Traditions.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    edited December 2015 Posts: 7,595
    bondjames wrote: »
    I was watching Mr. Brooks with Kevin Costner (an interesting film by the way) the other day, and noticed the score, which I found memorable. A little google search indicated it was an early work by Ramin Djawadi, who has since gone on to score the Game of Thrones & Iron Man.

    The Mr. Brooks score isn't orchestral at all. In fact it's almost Nine Inch Nails sounding, but I could tell he had potential when watching the film. His Game of Thrones score is outstanding, and is very orchestral.

    This is what I expect someone at EON to be doing. Doing some scanning of the up and comers and trying to see who has potential. This year, Johann Johannsson really impressed me with the Sicario score.

    PS: on a related note, there is a great song at the end of Mr. Brooks as well, by The Veils entitled Vicious Traditions.



    Djawadi is getting better as a composer as time goes on. I also really enjoy "Clash of the Titans" - which incidentally also is an example of him working with a title song written specifically for the film with Neil Davidge from Massive Attack.

  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Listened to the Spectre soundtrack yesterday ( got it as a Christmas present)
    and quite liked it, yes there is a lot of SF in it, but there are a few great tracks.
  • With awards season upon us, I'm curious to see if we will get a FYC version of the soundtrack. There is some stuff from the car chase that I've been just aching to listen to, outside of watching the film, of course. Almost everything else is on the soundtrack already.
  • Posts: 313
    I'll hazard a guess that it will not surface until the Oscars are over.
  • CraigMooreOHMSSCraigMooreOHMSS Dublin, Ireland
    Posts: 7,595
    FilmGuy24 wrote: »
    With awards season upon us, I'm curious to see if we will get a FYC version of the soundtrack. There is some stuff from the car chase that I've been just aching to listen to, outside of watching the film, of course. Almost everything else is on the soundtrack already.

    Yeah there was a couple of interesting inserts there. Aside from that, most of the other unreleased stuff is from the PTS. An extended film version of Los Muertos Vivas Estan would be great.
  • Posts: 3,063
    The SP score is a grower. Some great stuff in there. Especially with the inclusion of Vivaldi. Smart choice to reuse the 'Mother'-theme from SF in the apartment-scene. Builds context.

    The biggest problem, like with SF, is that it does not have a clear motif!
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited February 2016 Posts: 1,726
    How anyone can defend this poor excuse for a Bond film score when you lookat what has come before is just beyond me.

    The composer is clearly not interested in Bond, it's musical heritage, or coming up with a memorable soundtrack. He was offered the gig - scribbled some generic action cues - and CASHED THE CHECK.

    SP is the Treat Williams of Bond scores...
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited February 2016 Posts: 23,883
    AceHole wrote: »
    He was offered the gig - scribbled some generic action cues - and CASHED THE CHECK..
    To some extent that is how I feel about the film itself, at least more so than at any time other than the highly disappointing late 90's/early 00's.

    The score was definitely not as memorable as the SF one in my view, and neither was the film. The two sort of went hand in hand for me. Tired.

    Which is why I firmly believe we need a new composer and a new director for the next go-around, no matter what direction they decide to take us in (direct sequel, new unrelated story, or soft-reboot). A creative rebirth is definitely necessary now more than ever for Bond.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,726
    bondjames wrote: »
    AceHole wrote: »
    He was offered the gig - scribbled some generic action cues - and CASHED THE CHECK..
    To some extent that is how I feel about the film itself, at least more so than at any time other than the highly disappointing late 90's/early 00's.

    The score was definitely not as memorable as the SF one in my view, and neither was the film. The two sort of went hand in hand for me. Tired.

    Which is why I firmly believe we need a new composer and a new director for the next go-around, no matter what direction they decide to take us in (direct sequel, new unrelated story, or soft-reboot). A creative rebirth is definitely necessary now more than ever for Bond.

    I agree, though it seems some are quite happy to persist with the Mendes/Blofeld line. I think a completely new creative team is direly needed.
    Babs needs to take some ballsy creative decisions like back in '05 when she cast Dan.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Zekidk wrote: »
    The SP score is a grower. Some great stuff in there. Especially with the inclusion of Vivaldi.

    =))

    I enjoyed that instrumental track after the fight with Hinx too and the one as the DB5 drives away. Really top work Mr Newman.

  • Posts: 679
    During the Barry years, the main theme was often woven into the incidental music throughout the film. I think of it as the film's signature piece, a motif worth repeating throughout. When I previously mentioned how I miss that aspect of the films, I was
    lectured by a poster here that's old school, time to move on. Here's an essential difference With that old school stuff, you could drop the needle (old school) on almost any track a find a piece that was distinctive. Barry rarely included a forgettable track.
    Not so in the post-Barry years. Too much these days sounds generic, as if it could have been lifted from a variety of films. There's some good pieces, but not much that delivers the feel of a Bond film as Barry's compositions did. In the modern era, CR is the one I like best. Best title song in years.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 38,290
    Does anyone have a list of all of the track bits that were copied over from SF to SP? I know we get a good bit during the PTS and the 'Skyfall' track during the funeral scene, but what else?
  • Posts: 3,063
    Zekidk wrote: »
    The SP score is a grower. Some great stuff in there. Especially with the inclusion of Vivaldi.

    =))
    Why is that funny? That was a touch of genious, IMO!
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited February 2016 Posts: 9,117
    Zekidk wrote: »
    Zekidk wrote: »
    The SPu score is a grower. Some great stuff in there. Especially with the inclusion of Vivaldi.

    =))
    Why is that funny? That was a touch of genious, IMO!

    I agree. Unfortunately it's Vivaldi's genius.

    Same goes for the Bond theme at the end and the best track on the score - the instrumental of WOTW (although I think 'genius' is a rather too extravagant way to describe Sam Smith).

    Here's a novel idea - how about you write some decent music yourself Tom rather than just plagiarising?

    Actually scratch that. As these are the 3 best tracks in the film we'd be properly buggered if Newman didn't go about thieving off others.
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Does anyone have a list of all of the track bits that were copied over from SF to SP? I know we get a good bit during the PTS and the 'Skyfall' track during the funeral scene, but what else?

    The PTS was, after the bomb goes off, 95% SF.

    There was the reuse of the M theme (which I guess was ok given the context of the scene) and the MP theme which is supposed to be sort of 'cheeky' but is just annoying and naff.

    During the car chase once they get onto the river there's a nice copy and paste from the SF PTS.

    The Bond theme at the end is pretty much identical to the last 2 mins of SF as well I think, although as it's the Bond theme I guess it's a little hard on Newman to say it's a direct steal.

    I'm sure there are more but not got the DVD yet.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,487
    When you are brilliant, it is ok to steal from yourself. Not that I ever do that myself, as I am above that, of course.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    It's easily the most laziest Bond score ever done. Newman should stick to slow paced thrillers or Pixar films. That's where his real talent is. Aside from less than a handful of tracks, It's just a full on copy and paste job from Skyfall. It was the most glaring problem I had with Spectre by far. It's a D- for sure.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,487
    All you whiners are copy and paste jobs yourselves.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,584
    Creasy47 wrote: »
    Does anyone have a list of all of the track bits that were copied over from SF to SP? I know we get a good bit during the PTS and the 'Skyfall' track during the funeral scene, but what else?
    Someone Usually Dies appears during the Tokyo scenes.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Murdock wrote: »
    It's easily the most laziest Bond score ever done. Newman should stick to slow paced thrillers or Pixar films. That's where his real talent is. Aside from less than a handful of tracks, It's just a full on copy and paste job from Skyfall. It was the most glaring problem I had with Spectre by far. It's a D- for sure.

    Really can't argue with a word of that (apart from your use of 'most laziest' obviously).

    Although D- a bit generous surely?
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,184
    Murdock wrote: »
    It's easily the most laziest Bond score ever done. Newman should stick to slow paced thrillers or Pixar films. That's where his real talent is. Aside from less than a handful of tracks, It's just a full on copy and paste job from Skyfall. It was the most glaring problem I had with Spectre by far. It's a D- for sure.

    Really can't argue with a word of that (apart from your use of 'most laziest' obviously).

    Although D- a bit generous surely?

    That's me being nice. As I enjoyed the Gunbarrel music and Los Muertos Vivos Estan.
  • Posts: 313
    Might get back lashed but I prefer Arnold and Newman over Barry and others.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Gettler wrote: »
    Might get back lashed but I prefer Arnold and Newman over Barry and others.

    Back lashing the very least you deserve. I would start with that then move on to hanging, drawing and quartering.



  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Gettler wrote: »
    Might get back lashed but I prefer Arnold and Newman over Barry and others.

    In the last week I've seen someone ranking the Hollis/Rietty FYEO over the Waltz version, but now this. 'My opinion', before the forum police chime in, but preferring Newman over Barry is tantamount to enjoying the effects of Ebola over the effects of a pint.
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