Music in SPECTRE

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  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,105
    That's correct. Michael Giacchino. He's a fantastic composer and would crush it as a Bond composer.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    I found the use of the Jurassic Park theme music in JW to be very well done also. It was not 'in your face' but was there throughout - subtly. I agree that Giacchino would be fantastic for Bond too.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    edited June 2015 Posts: 16,145
    Been saying it for years. I'd love Giacchino for Bond Composer. The Incredibles was practically his audition.
  • Posts: 305
    Newman is a generic composer nothing more.His scores work perfectly fine within the context of the film he's working on without ever being outstanding in their own right. However I don't think he got the Bond sound at all. I think he watched to many Bourne films and not enough early Bond films. So I haven't got very high hopes for the sound of SP. I also agree wholeheartedly with an earlier post, please God let's have the gunbarrel back at the beginning with a Newman composed Bond theme
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    I enjoyed the SF score very much, while watching the film.

    I thought there were some great cues in the score and I was relieved to hear someone else's interpretation and creative vision for Bond after Arnold's run.

    However, I can appreciate how some felt it was a little low key. It was too subtle in places and needed more spark and intensity in some areas.

    Mendes is trying not to duplicate his work on SF with SP, so there's no reason to think he will not instruct Newman to bring a different sound as well.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    edited June 2015 Posts: 2,138
    I really don't get why there is so many Newman haters. I thought Skyfall had some great pieces. The Brass section were very memorable. I particularly like the electronic/progressive piece he did for the Shanghai scenes. He mashed up a bit from all styles. It was his first Bond I think he tried to do something different to freshen it up. But the end of the day thats what production/Mendes wanted when they hired him, if they wanted the Barry sound they would have kept David Arnold. I do prefer Arnolds work, but appreciate that they tried to do something different in a film which was a very different Bond.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    if they wanted the Barry sound they would have kept David Arnold. I do prefer Arnolds work, but appreciate that they tried to do something different in a film which was a very different Bond.

    I've never really appreciated Arnold's Barry-lite interpretation personally, except for a few cues (like Night at the Opera for example). So while I can appreciate people not taking to Newman, I've always felt Arnold was punching in a weight class that was just outside his capabilities...

    Just me though.
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    edited June 2015 Posts: 1,726
    bondjames wrote: »
    if they wanted the Barry sound they would have kept David Arnold. I do prefer Arnolds work, but appreciate that they tried to do something different in a film which was a very different Bond.

    I've never really appreciated Arnold's Barry-lite interpretation personally, except for a few cues (like Night at the Opera for example). So while I can appreciate people not taking to Newman, I've always felt Arnold was punching in a weight class that was just outside his capabilities...

    Just me though.

    Agreed. He gets points for trying though, but to my mind Arnold only wrote 4 top class Bond pieces:

    TND Pts score
    QoS [email protected]
    Bahamas' beach scene & Montenegro train scores from CR (both far too short, alas)
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    AceHole wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    if they wanted the Barry sound they would have kept David Arnold. I do prefer Arnolds work, but appreciate that they tried to do something different in a film which was a very different Bond.

    I've never really appreciated Arnold's Barry-lite interpretation personally, except for a few cues (like Night at the Opera for example). So while I can appreciate people not taking to Newman, I've always felt Arnold was punching in a weight class that was just outside his capabilities...

    Just me though.

    Agreed. He gets points for trying though, but to my mind Arnold only wrote 4 top class Bond pieces:

    TND Pts score
    QoS [email protected]
    Bahamas' beach scene & Montenegro train scores from CR (both far too short, alas)

    I think Casino he did a very good job with brining in the main theme elements, I think thats what a lot of fans do not feel there is enough of now and something which they miss. It's not Newmans bag, he likes to be original. I think the Spectre soundtrack will be darker with haunting qaulities lot of Bass Cello stuff going on. The playful charm box sound playing the original theme in the trailer has a really disturbing quallity to it.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    If I could pick a composer for a future Bond film, I would go with Clint Mansell - Requiem For a Dream and Moon.
  • Posts: 590
    I thought the Skyfall score was pretty decent overall, with some great moments. The “Tennyson” poem scene is phenomenal, and I’m willing to forgive anything else in the score for that scene alone.

    My worry with Newman is how hesitant he seemed to use the Bond theme. There are shades of it occasionally, but he never once uses it in full force other than the end credits. It’s like he felt that he was above it – being such a lofty composer he didn’t want to go slumming with something as common as the Bond theme. But there are moments in SPECTRE that will absolutely demand the Bond theme, and if he doesn’t use it, I will be livid.

    Of course, in a perfect world, the film would be scored by Michael Giacchino and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    My worry with Newman is how hesitant he seemed to use the Bond theme. There are shades of it occasionally, but he never once uses it in full force other than the end credits. It’s like he felt that he was above it – being such a lofty composer he didn’t want to go slumming with something as common as the Bond theme. But there are moments in SPECTRE that will absolutely demand the Bond theme, and if he doesn’t use it, I will be livid.

    Maybe it was Mendes who wanted less Bond theme, and instructed Newman accordingly, in order to create the necessary impact for his 'pet project' DB5 reveal scene.....

    I'm sure we'll here it more often in SP......for sure.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Flat Earth Society-now all around the globe
    Posts: 44,402
    bondjames wrote: »
    My worry with Newman is how hesitant he seemed to use the Bond theme. There are shades of it occasionally, but he never once uses it in full force other than the end credits. It’s like he felt that he was above it – being such a lofty composer he didn’t want to go slumming with something as common as the Bond theme. But there are moments in SPECTRE that will absolutely demand the Bond theme, and if he doesn’t use it, I will be livid.

    Maybe it was Mendes who wanted less Bond theme, and instructed Newman accordingly, in order to create the necessary impact for his 'pet project' DB5 reveal scene.....

    I'm sure we'll here it more often in SP......for sure.

    Just play it over the entire film as far as I am concerned. It is that good.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,105

    Of course, in a perfect world, the film would be scored by Michael Giacchino and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

    Correctamundo!
  • Posts: 590
    doubleoego wrote: »

    Of course, in a perfect world, the film would be scored by Michael Giacchino and we wouldn’t even be having this discussion.

    Correctamundo!

    Glad we're in agreement, doubleoego!

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,105
    Absolutely. Giacchino is a phenomenal composer and knows how to do justice to whatever film he's composing, without letting his ego compromise the quality of his own unique sound or the sound he's required to bring.
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,145
    The Bond theme has been heavily lacking since Casino Royale. It needs to come back in full force when Bond is at his best.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    bondjames wrote: »
    My worry with Newman is how hesitant he seemed to use the Bond theme. There are shades of it occasionally, but he never once uses it in full force other than the end credits. It’s like he felt that he was above it – being such a lofty composer he didn’t want to go slumming with something as common as the Bond theme. But there are moments in SPECTRE that will absolutely demand the Bond theme, and if he doesn’t use it, I will be livid.

    Maybe it was Mendes who wanted less Bond theme, and instructed Newman accordingly, in order to create the necessary impact for his 'pet project' DB5 reveal scene.....

    I'm sure we'll here it more often in SP......for sure.

    I believe in Skyfall at the Macau casino scene Mendes asked for an orchestral cut of the adele theme to be added. Newman handed the job to his under study. I think he is only interested in composing original pieces and not interested in playing around with something created by another composser or musician. I respect that I reckon that was a condition to Newman agreeing to join up on Skyfall after all Newman was a real left field choice for doing a Bond film but hin and Mendes are a bit of a package ever since American Beauty I think creatively they respect one another enough to not step on the creativity of the other.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited June 2015 Posts: 23,883
    bondjames wrote: »
    My worry with Newman is how hesitant he seemed to use the Bond theme. There are shades of it occasionally, but he never once uses it in full force other than the end credits. It’s like he felt that he was above it – being such a lofty composer he didn’t want to go slumming with something as common as the Bond theme. But there are moments in SPECTRE that will absolutely demand the Bond theme, and if he doesn’t use it, I will be livid.

    Maybe it was Mendes who wanted less Bond theme, and instructed Newman accordingly, in order to create the necessary impact for his 'pet project' DB5 reveal scene.....

    I'm sure we'll here it more often in SP......for sure.

    I believe in Skyfall at the Macau casino scene Mendes asked for an orchestral cut of the adele theme to be added. Newman handed the job to his under study. I think he is only interested in composing original pieces and not interested in playing around with something created by another composser or musician. I respect that I reckon that was a condition to Newman agreeing to join up on Skyfall after all Newman was a real left field choice for doing a Bond film but hin and Mendes are a bit of a package ever since American Beauty I think creatively they respect one another enough to not step on the creativity of the other.

    This imho is where the real problem lies.

    If I'm not mistaken, in Barry's day, he actually composed the title track as well. Things got a little tricky with AHA and him for TLD, but normally it worked... Even Barry (a man, like all creative geniuses, who could be very demanding and difficult to work with due to his high standards) had issues with some of the artists he had to work with.

    These days I think the musician does the track and then hands it over to the composer to work/weave in his magic and incorporate it into the score. The more creative types (like Newman) are wont to feel left out and short changed, and may not give 100% to an arrangement like this.

    In fact, this may be why Barry himself did not return post-TLD (despite what he told the press). He may just have got fed up with the new commercial nature of the whole thing with artists/record companies getting more say.
  • Posts: 1,364
    The fact that my favorite pieces of music in SKYFALL were not done by Newman sums up my apathy toward his next Bond score.
  • SirHilaryBraySirHilaryBray Scotland
    Posts: 2,138
    I mentioned on another post on another thread part of the problem is Sony. When selecting an artist to do the theme now it's been an artist who is on a Sony owned label. The way in which they select the theme appears to have also changed before you picked the artist and they collaborated with the score writer. It now appears to be a tendering process where those interested submit their track for consideration so production has to pick from something which is already the finished article. Which would explain why they leave the name of the theme artist till last as between announcing the films title and release the process begins for those submitting tracks writing around the concept.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    I want something this good in SP, thank you, please, Newman.

  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited June 2015 Posts: 3,952
    I mentioned on another post on another thread part of the problem is Sony. When selecting an artist to do the theme now it's been an artist who is on a Sony owned label.

    Or Universal. Universal and Sony working together sometimes. Sony Classical wil possible release score like as happend with CR and Skyfall. Or mabey Universal label Decca Music (Spy Game, Johny English), MCA (The World Is Not Enough) or A&M Records (Tomorrow Never Dies). Warner possible take over for Bond 25, Warner release score of DAD. It take till half July 2002 before there confirm Madonna. I am happy enough if there confirm it before half September.
  • RC7 wrote: »
    I want something this good in SP, thank you, please, Newman.


    I have a "Bond workout" playlist on iTunes and run to the "C-130 fight" almost every evening. Just another example of Barry weaving a snippet of a theme into his music. What made this particular track so special (as well as the attack on Bladen Safe House), was how "Where Has Everybody Gone" became a character. It clearly portrayed antagonist villain.
    Many people have made this similar comment so at the risk of repeating, I'll just say that Newman is a fine composer. Some of my all time favorite movies (Shawshank, Road to Perdition) had music from Newman. He has a distinctive sound. When you hear his music in a film, you know it is him. Yes, it is moody and not very action-oriented. But it works so well in his films. IMHO, the music scored for the Turkey PTS in SF was actually strong. He even weaved in the Bond theme a bit. Listen to it on YouTube. Well done. The continued fight on top of the train also had some exciting music to it. After that, the upbeat, action-oriented cues dropped and we were left with great examples of Newman's work except, it was in a bond movie. Bond movies have amazing action sequences. The music should match. Not just a cymbal or snare drum being hit with sixteenth notes. Barry, Arnold, hell, even Conti incorporated themes into the action. cues. Music is as much a character in the Bond films as the actor portraying 007. The Austin Powers series probably made the best Bond-spoof (although, Kingsman was so awesome...from a Bond fan perspective) and one of the ways in which they spoofed Bond was with the music. Almost spot on to early Barry phrases.
    So as long as we have a decent theme song, as well as cues from that song embedded within the soundtrack, heavily doused with Bond theme, I'll be satisfied with the music in SPECTRE.
  • Posts: 154
    Fully agree, BondFan. The Bond theme isn't enough; the best Bond scores have the title theme woven into the fabric of the music. This is something that worked well for the first 14 or 15 Bond films. Then it was more hit and miss. The Producers recently announcing that the title song is the last piece of the puzzle and something they'll supposedly look into after filming is done is a mistake, in my opinion. It doesn't leave enough time for the composer to work with the theme song in the score.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,580
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    Posts: 1,257
    ^^ That was great! The fact that I think a Coca-Cola ad has a better sounding Bond score than Skyfall says a lot.

    *puts on flame suit*
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 6,581
    ^^ That was great! The fact that I think a Coca-Cola ad has a better sounding Bond score than Skyfall says a lot.

    *puts on flame suit*

    I agree.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    While it certainly has some Bondian cues, to my ears it sounds like someone doing a bad imitation of David Arnold doing a bad imitation of John Barry.

    No thanks. I'll pass thank you very much.

    Much rather have something along these lines myself:


    or this:
  • MurdockMurdock Mr. 2000
    Posts: 16,145
    I hated Both New Digs and Shanghai Drive. New Digs sounds like it belongs in The Avengers or Iron man and Shanghai Drive is a bunch of electronic beeps. Hardly inspiring. I'd rather have David Arnold ripping off John Barry. The Coke music is way better than what we got in Skyfall. It's even sad when the Bond spoof films have better music than the current era of Bond films. [-(
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