Are the Komodo Dragons the silliest things in the Craig era so far?

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  • Posts: 14,816
    TripAces wrote: »
    The only (minor) things I find silly in SF are in the PTS:

    1. The rearview mirrors attempt at humor ("I wasn't using that one either") seemed off base considering the gravity of the situation.
    2. The overturned fruit stands in the bazaar...cliche cliche cliche
    3. The train: somehow, despite a gun fight, despite VW Beetles being knocked off the cargo car by a caterpillar (something M could hear via radio feed), despite train cars being uncoupled...the passengers are nicely glued to their seats and the train conductor has no idea what's going on?

    I don't get the elevator criticisms. As others have said: great nod to DAF. And it's well within the bounds of Bond's abilities.

    I love the elevator scene. Not as a nod to DAF, however, which I think is probably coincidental, but as a reply to it. More tension, more suspense and more atmosphere too.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    It's probably the awful CGI used when Craig is "holding on" to the elevator.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I have to admit, I haven't noticed the bad CGI in the elevator scene, as I'm
    Usually listening to the music, trying to figure out which Batman film it's
    From ! :D
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    It's probably the awful CGI used when Craig is "holding on" to the elevator.

    CGI? That was not CGI. Craig does all his own stunts!!! That actually was Craig holding on, 20+ stories up. And he did it without a harness, too. The whole "hand slip" was improvised. ;)
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited February 2015 Posts: 5,080
    TripAces wrote: »
    It's probably the awful CGI used when Craig is "holding on" to the elevator.

    CGI? That was not CGI. Craig does all his own stunts!!! That actually was Craig holding on, 20+ stories up. And he did it without a harness, too. The whole "hand slip" was improvised. ;)




    1.31

    That is blue screen.

    "One scene that was too complicated to shoot on location was Bond's infiltration of a Chinese skyscraper and subsequent fist fight — a sequence that sends Patrice the assassin flying out of a window. Bond stealthily grabs hold of the bottom of an elevator to follow Patrice, an effect that involved camera trickery but was no less demanding of Craig. "He does dangle," says Powell. "He's never standing, even if it's a blue screen set." "

    http://www.hollywood.com/news/movies/44136940/skyfall-stuntman-reveals-how-they-devised-and-pulled-off-the-movie-s-big-set-pieces
  • Posts: 7,500
    Blue screen! Seriously, how dear they! I mean, talk about breaking the fourth wall! Blue screen has never been used in Bond before! Could yo think of anything more silly or unbondian? What's next? Will they start dubbing characters as well? ;))
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    jobo wrote: »
    Blue screen! Seriously, how dear they! I mean, talk about breaking the fourth wall! Blue screen has never been used in Bond before! Could yo think of anything more silly or unbondian? What's next? Will they start dubbing characters as well? ;))

    Yes, but in a franchise that prides itself on amazing stunts done for real, scenes like this do begin to pale in comparison. I wouldn't mind if it wasn't so bleeding obvious.
  • Posts: 1,552
    jobo wrote: »
    Blue screen! Seriously, how dear they! I mean, talk about breaking the fourth wall! Blue screen has never been used in Bond before! Could yo think of anything more silly or unbondian? What's next? Will they start dubbing characters as well? ;))

    Yes, but in a franchise that prides itself on amazing stunts done for real, scenes like this do begin to pale in comparison. I wouldn't mind if it wasn't so bleeding obvious.

    Even stunts that were done for real involved a little green screen or blue screen. Look at some of the Ski stunts, they used stuntmen who could ski fantastically, but when Bond's face had to be seen, it looked pretty obvious it wasn't them. Take this scene from The Spy Who Loved Me's PTS -
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    No CGI or blue screen used when Sir Rog grabbed the sumo's arse - you can see the red marks left by his hands! :D
  • Posts: 14,816
    And they used blue screen or whatever they used at the time when Connery was in a car in DN, FRWL, GF, etc. Oh and its not real boiling water at the climax of DN.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It's not the blue screen, so much as the stunt work that is being questioned, I believe.

    Indeed.

    I don't see any rear projection when Sylvester skis of the cliff, neither do I see it when when the AMC corkscrews, or when Kananga steps across the crocodiles. That's my problem with the scene- the CGI is the stunt, which for me, has no tension.
  • edited February 2015 Posts: 7,500
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It's not the blue screen, so much as the stunt work that is being questioned, I believe.

    Indeed.

    I don't see any rear projection when Sylvester skis of the cliff, neither do I see it when when the AMC corkscrews, or when Kananga steps across the crocodiles. That's my problem with the scene- the CGI is the stunt, which for me, has no tension.


    But its not really an action stunt after all, is it? Its a dramatic moment where Bond follows a villain, nothing more. Would it be better with a stunt double when the point is to show how the ageing Bond is still wounded and not to his usual stength? I have no problem with practicality sometimes being the priority...

    I appreciate your point, but this is nevertheless nitpicking at its silliest...

    Birdleson wrote: »
    Some people just don't understand @MayDayDiVicenzo , no point in belaboring the obvious.

    Sorry for not being able to understand the grave tragedy of blue screen being used for a short moment. My intellect is just not up to your level, I guess...

  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    edited February 2015 Posts: 5,080
    jobo wrote: »

    But its not really an action stunt after all, is it? Its a dramatic moment where Bond follows a villain, nothing more. Would it be better with a stunt double when the point is to show how the ageing Bond is still wounded and not to his usual stength? I have no problem with practicality sometimes being the priority...

    I appreciate your point, but this is nevertheless nitpicking at its silliest...

    It's not nitpicking. It just another case of CGI in SKYFALL that took me out of the experience. That's one of the biggest sins that a film can commit, IMO. I'm not a SKYFALL hater, nor am I a lover. But the CGI really bugged me.

    "Would it be better with a stunt double when the point is to show how the ageing Bond is still wounded and not to his usual stength?"

    That's tenous at best.

    But I apologise for finding something to criticise. I thought it was the purpose of this thread.
  • edited February 2015 Posts: 7,500
    jobo wrote: »

    But its not really an action stunt after all, is it? Its a dramatic moment where Bond follows a villain, nothing more. Would it be better with a stunt double when the point is to show how the ageing Bond is still wounded and not to his usual stength? I have no problem with practicality sometimes being the priority...

    I appreciate your point, but this is nevertheless nitpicking at its silliest...

    It's not nitpicking. It just another case of CGI in SKYFALL that took me out of the experience. That's one of the biggest sins that a film can commit, IMO. I'm not a SKYFALL hater, nor am I a lover. But the CGI really bugged me.

    "Would it be better with a stunt double when the point is to show how the ageing Bond is still wounded and not to his usual stength?"

    That's tenous at best.

    But I apologise for finding something to criticise. I thought it was the purpose of this thread.

    The purpose of this thread is not merely to criticise, but also to debate that criticism. I apologize for not agreeing with you.

    If it doesn't qualify as nitpicking it certainly qualifies as sensitivity. A sensitivity you are entitled to of course... But if short moments of CGI is the explenation for why this scene is "the silliest in Craigs era" (I know that's not your statement)... well, then I can sleep well on Craig's behalf... :-j
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    May I apologise for either agreeing or not agreeing with anyone. :))
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,554
    TripAces wrote: »
    It's probably the awful CGI used when Craig is "holding on" to the elevator.

    CGI? That was not CGI. Craig does all his own stunts!!! That actually was Craig holding on, 20+ stories up. And he did it without a harness, too. The whole "hand slip" was improvised. ;)

    I didn't lay on the sarcasm thick enough. :-O
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    It was that thick, your hand could slip off of it. :D
  • Posts: 1,394
    The silliest thing in the Craig era by far is M's pretentious speech in SF when she should have ordered a security lockdown of the enquiry.

    That or Silvas entire plan which was ridiculous.
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    jobo wrote: »

    But if short moments of CGI is the explenation for why this scene is "the silliest in Craigs era" (I know that's not your statement)... well, then I can sleep well on Craig's behalf... :-j

    Well, yes. There isn't much else to complain about regarding "silliness" in the Craig era.

    Elvis, Skyfall's CGI, Bond meets Kevin McCallister, Bond falling 100ft and surviving and perhaps the QOS parachute scene, and my list stops there.
  • M_BaljeM_Balje Amsterdam, Netherlands
    edited February 2015 Posts: 4,438
    AstonLotus wrote: »
    The silliest thing in the Craig era by far is M's pretentious speech in SF when she should have ordered a security lockdown of the enquiry.

    That or Silvas entire plan which was ridiculous.

    How amazing it have been if Tanner take laptop back and trow it out of the window whyle the car driving around the thames or better M trowing out her self.

    images?q=tbn:ANd9GcQNRarx8UImhYQ52AwMSCdI_WPBc39Ue56f-M77_gzfxj-0RKoc
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    edited February 2015 Posts: 4,554
    Per the elevators:

    In his book, Lifted, Andreas Bernard states that the elevator became the instrument that illustrated social mobility. Before, it was the lower levels of buildings that were the residence of the upper class. Ever since, that has flipped. The higher up, the higher "level" of social class.

    Bond is an orphan, and in this reboot with Craig, his childhood background has been revealed more than ever (in the films, that is). Remember what Vesper guessed this about him. In the Craig films, the elevator does indeed represent the social mobility that James Bond sought to achieve, due to deep feelings of inferiority. He lives in that world but is an outsider. And at one point his "ego" is so inflated that vesper won't even get into the elevator with him. No surprise that the elevator is the means by which she commits suicide. With the elevator plunging, Both "orphans" are taken down, by the higher order they can't defeat. This is why Bond's fight scene is on the stairs at Hotel Splendide and not the lift.

    This is also why it's no surprise that the very opening scene of the reboot (in CR) is an elevator scene. Careful attention is paid to the floors Dryden is ascending to. And who's there already? Bond.

    In SF, the elevator scene is equally important. Bond ascends, but from the outside, hanging on for dear life. It's symbolic of his own struggles to not only arrive at a higher point in life, but to stay there. CGI or not, the scene is symbolically important.
  • ThomasCrown76ThomasCrown76 Augusta, ks
    Posts: 757
    Holy crap, there is a mindblower
  • Probably something from quantum, The Komodo dragons didn't bother me.
  • And I don't care if it's a green screen, it looks real, and I love that scene.
  • Posts: 14,816
    TripAces wrote: »
    Per the elevators:

    In his book, Lifted, Andreas Bernard states that the elevator became the instrument that illustrated social mobility. Before, it was the lower levels of buildings that were the residence of the upper class. Ever since, that has flipped. The higher up, the higher "level" of social class.

    Bond is an orphan, and in this reboot with Craig, his childhood background has been revealed more than ever (in the films, that is). Remember what Vesper guessed this about him. In the Craig films, the elevator does indeed represent the social mobility that James Bond sought to achieve, due to deep feelings of inferiority. He lives in that world but is an outsider. And at one point his "ego" is so inflated that vesper won't even get into the elevator with him. No surprise that the elevator is the means by which she commits suicide. With the elevator plunging, Both "orphans" are taken down, by the higher order they can't defeat. This is why Bond's fight scene is on the stairs at Hotel Splendide and not the lift.

    This is also why it's no surprise that the very opening scene of the reboot (in CR) is an elevator scene. Careful attention is paid to the floors Dryden is ascending to. And who's there already? Bond.

    In SF, the elevator scene is equally important. Bond ascends, but from the outside, hanging on for dear life. It's symbolic of his own struggles to not only arrive at a higher point in life, but to stay there. CGI or not, the scene is symbolically important.

    That is really fascinating.
  • Posts: 4,599
    To me, considering the film is much more character driven than many of the Bond movies, Bond introducing himself to Moneypenny right at the end is just silly, they clearly wanted a "reveal" to set up the team for the next installment and thats a great idea but to base it on Bond not knowing her name for the whole film is silly (and hence my post), they could have done it via a visual (new nameplate on the door as Bond enters or something), end of mini rant
  • talos7talos7 New Orleans
    Posts: 7,964
    While the use of quality CGI does not bother me; there's nothing like the real thing. A great example of this is the aircraft chase in Capricorn One, which features a near-Bond James Brolin. This is a poor transfer that's o Youtube. I watched it on Blu-ray the other night and it was incredible.

  • Posts: 4,599
    "Get your goddam head down!" - great film and made better by the lack of CGI. Just one of those films that you find just as you are going to bed and before you know it, it's two in the morning, just so watchable. We digress
  • Posts: 14,816
    patb wrote: »
    To me, considering the film is much more character driven than many of the Bond movies, Bond introducing himself to Moneypenny right at the end is just silly, they clearly wanted a "reveal" to set up the team for the next installment and thats a great idea but to base it on Bond not knowing her name for the whole film is silly (and hence my post), they could have done it via a visual (new nameplate on the door as Bond enters or something), end of mini rant

    I always understood that Bond knew her name from the beginning, but had not been formerly introduced and asked the question as politeness.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    It's a bit clunky, but It's there to inform all the people who were either talking,
    Texting, kissing, crunching through the film as to who she is ! ;)
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