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Superman: The Man of Tomorrow

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  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited May 2023 Posts: 8,025
    Odd thing concerning the cut scenes: In the deleted scenes bonus material, the f/x are not finished such as the tornado scene and Alexander Courage’s finished score isn’t included, probably because they were all taken from a work print. However, the tornado scene actually appeared in finished form with Courage’s score in international cuts, most notably available on Japanese LaserDisc. That makes me wonder if there were ever existing versions of those other deleted material with the f/x finished. I assume they’re all lost.

    Here’s the tornado scene from the Japanese LD:



    And the last additional scene:




    Of all the deleted material, I wish we could see the nightclub scene as that footage is not even included in the bonus material. Instead it cuts from Lex telling Nuclear Man 1 to destroy Superman straight to NM1 being brought out of the nightclub with a lady seducing him. I assume this is because the nightclub scenes were not in the work print that WB found in the archives.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,956
    I've not seen those, thank you. There's nothing wrong with those, kind of baffling they got chopped. Did they slow the film down or something?
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    edited May 2023 Posts: 8,025
    It’s a purely money-making decision by Cannon Films that had nothing to do with art. By cutting out 30 mins of footage, that allowed more showtimes at a theater. Cannon Films was notoriously cheap.

    Fun fact, the little girl in the tornado scene is Reeve’s daughter.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited May 2023 Posts: 23,353
    The tornado scene is arguably the best Superman in action scene from the whole film, there are some good shots of Reeve there, always loved that Superman take off.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,956
    It is annoying how all of these Superman TV shows and recent films don't do any takeoff/landing shots where he's just on a nice simple crane. It sells the idea of him flying way better than anything else and even on IV's budget it still looks great.

    I think the landing at the end of III where he goes back to that power plant(?) was my favourite- he comes in from extremely high! If that cable had broken I hate to think what would have happened to him!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,353
    The New Adventures of Superman with Dean Cain comes to mind with a weak take off, most of the time he just flapped his cape.

    Smallville had a few good take offs though Clark flew sparingly in that show.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,956
    Yeah Dean Cain was often just stood on a seesaw, basically. They didn't have much cash so it was effective enough I guess.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    ColonelSun wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »

    Watching Superman 2 Lester Cut 4K, really impressed it sounds amazing and the color grading is very different more vibrant than my other versions. Feel like i am watching this for the first time. The Donner shot scenes are incredible far superior to Lester's even more so than before. Great restoration and not my favorite version of the film, this was awesome.
    You meant, Donner Cut, eh?
    If I had to have only one, it would be the Lester version, but the 'Donner Cut' adds SO much to the second half!!!!!

    I watched the Lester Cut first, on 4K you get both Cuts of Superman II together.

    81xZpzRGNaL._AC_SL1500_.jpg

    I will watch the better Donner Cut later.

    The Donner cut is far superior. The Salkinds were morons to fire Dick Donner.

    I regularly watch the Lester version until the end of the dinner at the Fortress, then switch to the Donner Cut, and skip the time-reversal scene near the end. That makes for a nicer viewing experience....
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    mtm wrote: »
    It is annoying how all of these Superman TV shows and recent films don't do any takeoff/landing shots where he's just on a nice simple crane. It sells the idea of him flying way better than anything else and even on IV's budget it still looks great.

    I think the landing at the end of III where he goes back to that power plant(?) was my favourite- he comes in from extremely high! If that cable had broken I hate to think what would have happened to him!

    Yeah, Snyder seemed to want to sell on how ridiculously fast Superman was by how aggressive he takes off, going as fast as an experimental jet, leaving behind craters where he lands, etc. Whereas Superman landing and taking off gently is a great way of showing how in control he is over his powers.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,353
    As much as like Snyder's Elseworld take on Superman, I suspect if Superman sneezed he would wipe out an entire town. :))
  • ColonelSunColonelSun
    Posts: 1,453
    MakeshiftPython wrote: »
    Odd thing concerning the cut scenes: In the deleted scenes bonus material, the f/x are not finished such as the tornado scene and Alexander Courage’s finished score isn’t included, probably because they were all taken from a work print. However, the tornado scene actually appeared in finished form with Courage’s score in international cuts, most notably available on Japanese LaserDisc. That makes me wonder if there were ever existing versions of those other deleted material with the f/x finished. I assume they’re all lost.

    Here’s the tornado scene from the Japanese LD:



    And the last additional scene:




    Of all the deleted material, I wish we could see the nightclub scene as that footage is not even included in the bonus material. Instead it cuts from Lex telling Nuclear Man 1 to destroy Superman straight to NM1 being brought out of the nightclub with a lady seducing him. I assume this is because the nightclub scenes were not in the work print that WB found in the archives.

    The VFX were completed for the tornado scene and also the Red Square scene and the neg was cut and the scenes were graded and included in the Cannon international version, but the US version did not include those two scenes.

    The night club scene has Clark dancing with Lacey and he slowly raises them both a few inches off the floor so they glide and Lacey thinks she's just being swept off her feet. It was a nice scene.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 14,956
    That sounds great. So did I see the tornado scene when I went to see it in the cinema? It does feel sort of familiar.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited May 2023 Posts: 23,353
    Watching Superman II 4K again, Christopher Reeve is so good in the role, it's the subtle moments that us the viewer only see, when in Clark mode you see glimpses of Superman come to the surface for a brief moment. The Lester cut is not as good though many of his scenes have good moments, the Niagra scenes are great. .
  • MakeshiftPythonMakeshiftPython “Baja?!”
    Posts: 8,025
    mtm wrote: »
    That sounds great. So did I see the tornado scene when I went to see it in the cinema? It does feel sort of familiar.

    Probably from TV airings. I saw those extra scenes on TBS back in the 90s.
  • ToTheRightToTheRight
    Posts: 15,818
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    The New Adventures of Superman with Dean Cain comes to mind with a weak take off, most of the time he just flapped his cape.

    Smallville had a few good take offs though Clark flew sparingly in that show.

    My favorite take off and landings were on THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN TV series after the wires had broke and George Reeves crashed on the studio floor. Si Simonson devised a springboard for George to run to, leap on and be catapulted over the camera where he'd land on a safety matt.
    Occasionally that springboard can be seen at the bottom of the screen :(.
    Most of the time it looked seemless.

    For the landings he leaped into the frame from the third rung of a ladder and swung in from a bar rigged above.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited May 2023 Posts: 23,353
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    The New Adventures of Superman with Dean Cain comes to mind with a weak take off, most of the time he just flapped his cape.

    Smallville had a few good take offs though Clark flew sparingly in that show.

    My favorite take off and landings were on THE ADVENTURES OF SUPERMAN TV series after the wires had broke and George Reeves crashed on the studio floor. Si Simonson devised a springboard for George to run to, leap on and be catapulted over the camera where he'd land on a safety matt.
    Occasionally that springboard can be seen at the bottom of the screen :(.
    Most of the time it looked seemless.

    For the landings he leaped into the frame from the third rung of a ladder and swung in from a bar rigged above.

    I have some of the George Reeves episodes, I loved it when he jumped out of the window into flight.

    I have Hollywoodland with Ben Afleck, mostly fiction though an interesting film, I should give it a rewatch its been a while.

    ---

    Watching Superman II: Donner Cut in 4K the film looks and sounds fantastic, I should have just bought the 4K boxset first as I have now decided to order it despite just buying a few of the 4K films.

    I came to the conclusion that if I did not buy the steelbook boxset I would regret it. The boxset arrives tomorrow, the outside case is also metal which I am happy about. I watched a few unboxing videos on YouTube which convinced me.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,547
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Watching Superman II 4K again, Christopher Reeve is so good in the role, it's the subtle moments that us the viewer only see, when in Clark mode you see glimpses of Superman come to the surface for a brief moment. The Lester cut is not as good though many of his scenes have good moments, the Niagra scenes are great. .

    I can only appreciate the Donner Cut of S2, and even then, the film is very far off the power of the first film for me. Still, S2 is galaxies better than S3 and S4.

    And then there's SR and MOS, two films I really enjoy, even if it's not the fashionable thing to do. ;-)
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited May 2023 Posts: 23,353
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Watching Superman II 4K again, Christopher Reeve is so good in the role, it's the subtle moments that us the viewer only see, when in Clark mode you see glimpses of Superman come to the surface for a brief moment. The Lester cut is not as good though many of his scenes have good moments, the Niagra scenes are great. .

    I can only appreciate the Donner Cut of S2, and even then, the film is very far off the power of the first film for me. Still, S2 is galaxies better than S3 and S4.

    And then there's SR and MOS, two films I really enjoy, even if it's not the fashionable thing to do. ;-)

    Donner Cut of S2 is much much better, I am watching it now for first time in 4K, the White House scene is far more intense in this format, everything the Kryptonians do feels more impactful and brutal in 4K. The Jor el scene when Kal gets depowered wow I was getting chills. This is better than the Bluray version I have.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited May 2023 Posts: 23,353
    Totally blown away by the sound on both versions of Superman II in 4K, wow!

    One of the greatest scenes in the genre when Superman gets his powers back just got greater Holy... I highly recommend the 4K version of Superman II: Donner Cut.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,547
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Totally blown away by the sound on both versions of Superman II in 4K, wow!

    One of the greatest scenes in the genre when Superman gets his powers back just got greater Holy... I highly recommend the 4K version of Superman II: Donner Cut.

    Are you going to watch the Fleischer cartoons too? ;-) I'm not joking, by the way. I absolutely love those.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited May 2023 Posts: 23,353
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    Totally blown away by the sound on both versions of Superman II in 4K, wow!

    One of the greatest scenes in the genre when Superman gets his powers back just got greater Holy... I highly recommend the 4K version of Superman II: Donner Cut.

    Are you going to watch the Fleischer cartoons too? ;-) I'm not joking, by the way. I absolutely love those.

    Had the Fleischer cartoons for decades on several formats, they are excellent. They have been public domain for some time now, I also have them on my PC.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2023 Posts: 14,956
    I must admit I kind of think Supergirl should’ve had a place in the set: it is part of the Reeve continuity after all, and it’s better made than IV. The first flying scene is pretty stunningly done.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    mtm wrote: »
    I must admit I kind of think Supergirl should’ve had a place in the set: it is part of the Reeve continuity after all, and it’s better made than IV. The first flying scene is pretty stunningly done.

    Supergirl is at least the equal of Superman III in terms of quality...
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,353
    mtm wrote: »
    I must admit I kind of think Supergirl should’ve had a place in the set: it is part of the Reeve continuity after all, and it’s better made than IV. The first flying scene is pretty stunningly done.

    Agree many have said the same, I would have welcomed it.

    ---

    Watching Superman IV again in 4K, the Smallville scene really does look good. The lessor films have been given a shot in the arm of sorts.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited May 2023 Posts: 14,956
    Yeah, it is pretty amazing that Smallville stuff was shot in Essex or something like that. Mind you, the most recent Jurassic World film did much the same with scenes set in US farmland.
    chrisisall wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I must admit I kind of think Supergirl should’ve had a place in the set: it is part of the Reeve continuity after all, and it’s better made than IV. The first flying scene is pretty stunningly done.

    Supergirl is at least the equal of Superman III in terms of quality...

    Yeah I don’t disagree. And it’s got a banger of a theme tune!
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    Posts: 23,353
    I think people will be pleasantly surprised by Superman IV in 4K testament to Sidney J. Furie, he knows how to frame great shots, I am a huge fan of The Ipcress File.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,547
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    I think people will be pleasantly surprised by Superman IV in 4K testament to Sidney J. Furie, he knows how to frame great shots, I am a huge fan of The Ipcress File.

    I like his little-known horror film THE ENTITY. But S4 is a total abomination. Nuclear Man? Luthor's nephew? Out-of-shape Supes? I really dislike that film. Batman And Robin is a masterpiece compared to Quest For Peace.
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited May 2023 Posts: 23,353
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    I think people will be pleasantly surprised by Superman IV in 4K testament to Sidney J. Furie, he knows how to frame great shots, I am a huge fan of The Ipcress File.

    I like his little-known horror film THE ENTITY. But S4 is a total abomination. Nuclear Man? Luthor's nephew? Out-of-shape Supes? I really dislike that film. Batman And Robin is a masterpiece compared to Quest For Peace.

    Watch the 4K restoration I am not saying it will change your mind though it may give greater appreciation to certain elements of the film.

    ---

    Shoot a movie in film the possibilities are endless...
  • Fire_and_Ice_ReturnsFire_and_Ice_Returns I am trying to get away from this mountan!
    edited May 2023 Posts: 23,353
    I will be honest the jump from Bluray to 4K with Superman IV is mind boggling,

    The birth of Nuclear Man theme is awesome, Alexander Courage does some good work on this score.

    Nuclear Man inability to retain any energy in the shade is very problematic.

    I have heard Superman III is amazing in 4K, I can't wait to watch it tomorrow.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    Fire_and_Ice_Returns wrote: »
    I think people will be pleasantly surprised by Superman IV in 4K testament to Sidney J. Furie, he knows how to frame great shots, I am a huge fan of The Ipcress File.

    I like his little-known horror film THE ENTITY. But S4 is a total abomination. Nuclear Man? Luthor's nephew? Out-of-shape Supes? I really dislike that film. Batman And Robin is a masterpiece compared to Quest For Peace.

    Batman & Robin IS a masterpiece compared. It's coherent, well financed/produced, and lively. Yeah, it's cartoonish (like Superman III) but it looks so good!
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