007: What would you have done differently?

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  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    Posts: 3,262
    I had written this some years back but here's my admittedly very rough and raw attempt to try to come up with a revision for my dream/"alternate universe" AVTAK with Dalton making his debut as the new Bond for 1985:

    Pre title sequence: Introduce Dalton as the new 007 in a mini-adventure that has nothing or little to do with the rest of the picture(in the style of the teasers for GF, TB, FYEO and OP).

    Title Sequence:(I would've retained the Duran Duran song, one of the few highlights of the actual film)

    Albert R. Broccoli presents

    Timothy Dalton as James Bond 007 in Ian Fleming's

    FROM A VIEW TO A KILL
    (I would have restored the full original Fleming title)

    starring

    Alison Doody as Mary Ann Russell

    Patrick Macnee as Sir Godfrey Tibbett

    Fiona Fullerton as Pola Ivanova

    Christopher Walken as Max Zorin

    and Tanya Roberts in a very small 5 minute appearance as the "sacrificial lamb" Jenny Flex

    Movie opens proper: The first 20-30 mins would be a relatively faithful adaptation of the actual short story "From A View To A Kill". The SHAPE driver's murder would appear on screen and 007's subsequent investigation. He would be assigned to work with fellow agents Tibbett and lovely Mary Ann Russell(the girl in the original story), and would impersonate the SHAPE driver and infiltrate the Russian spy gang in the forest. The head assassin(who Bond is sure he has seen before) of this spy gang gets away and Bond finds a stash of Zorin microchips among the KGB spy ring materials. After a brief dalliance with the gorgeous Mary Ann, Bond reports this information to M. Bond would learn that Zorin industries are a private British defense contractor that is developing microchips that are impervious to the magnetic pulse of a nuclear explosion but they've not been put in use by the British defense systems yet. Zorin would still be of East German origin but he defected to England, became a U.K. citizen and then spent several years in New York where he made his millions. (This would explain Walken/Zorin's NY accent). M then sends Bond to investigate Zorin at a party his Chantilly estate. While there Bond meets and flirts with Zorin's mistress/secretary Jenny Flex(who Zorin brought from NY, also explaining her accent) Bond also runs into another lady at the party, his ex-lover, ballerina/KGB agent Pola Ivanova. After some brief flirting and catching up on old times, Pola mysteriously vanishes. To get more info on Zorin, Bond starts romancing Jenny which Zorin learns about and of course has her promptly executed(a la Corinne Dufour). Bond uses his gadgets to listen in on Zorin and his partner-in-crime whom he recognizes as the KGB assasin from the forest. Thru closer detection, Bond realizes that Pola and the KGB assassin are one and the same. Bond is caught spying and is captured by Zorin & put in some deathtrap from which of course he escapes but not without Zorin thinking he is dead.

    Bond continues his mission in pursuit of Pola to learn more about what she and Zorin are up to. The Siberian ski chase could be inserted here where Bond pursues her but ultimately rescues Pola from an avalanche(a la Bond and Elektra). After this experience, they "warm up" in a hot tub reminiscing about old times. As Bond gets more of the information on their plan, Pola doublecrosses Bond and he is again captured by Zorin. It turns out that Zorin and Pola are planning to cause a nuclear blast in outer space over the U.K. to, as Frederick Gray put it, "paralyze us at the Russian's mercy". This will be done after Zorin installs the "nuclear-explosion impervious" microchips(which of course won't be) in all of Britain's national defense systems. In the end, Bond of course thwarts Zorin and Pola's plans with the aid of Mary Ann who Bond ends up with in the final clinch. Tibbett would also have a larger role as Bond's ally and not be killed off. Perhaps I've make him head of Station F-France.
  • Posts: 2,913
    A promising scenario, and I applaud the attempt to sneak in some of the original story, which I didn't think possible.
  • DenbighDenbigh UK
    edited May 2018 Posts: 5,940
    Bond also runs into another lady at the party, his ex-lover, ballerina/KGB agent Pola Ivanova.

    For some reason I imagined Jennifer Lawrence in Red Sparrow.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    edited May 2018 Posts: 6,203
    octofinger wrote: »
    My issue with AVTAK, other than the obvious things like the Moore facelift, Tanya's screaming, Beach Boys in the PTS, Q's robot, etc - is the way the film looks. The cinematography and the way the locations are presented is just so, so bland. I know this is an issue that can be argued with more than one of the John Glen films, but I think AVTAK is the worst of them all in that regard.

    Hear hear. The USA has never looked good in a Bond film.

    The firetruck jump over the bridge is terribly shot. Should have been a lot more thrilling.

    And I think it would have been better if we had a few regulars back for Moore's swan song to close out the era. Hedison as Leiter certainly, with a cameo by Solitaire or Holly Goodhead or Triple X (tying in to the Russian story)? Somehow it fits Moore's Bond to be friendly with his ex-lovers, in a way that it wouldn't for the other Bonds (perhaps Dalton).

    It's wishful thinking, I know; I don't think AVTAK was contemplated as Moore's final film, since TLD was written with him in mind.

    And because it's a perfect tribute to Moore, here it is again:

    https://www.newyorker.com/cartoons/daily-cartoon/bonus-cartoon-the-only-bond
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited May 2018 Posts: 13,978
    bondsum wrote: »
    I don't know if Rampling would be a good fit for Octopussy. I would rather see her cast as a Bond girl with more dramatic heft, such as Tracy.

    How would I have done Octopussy? Well, in my dream timeline, in 1983, David Warbeck is still Bond. So providing Octopussy is still made in 1983, Moore wouldn't have been Bond. But looking at the actual Octopussy film, if I made my version in 1983, I would probably keep the cast the same. Come to think of it, in said timeline, I haven't even used Octopussy, so my version could be completely different, as regards the cast.
    Yes, I tend to agree. As good as Rampling is (or was) I'm not sure how she would've played off against Roger Moore. Rampling can come over a little haughty in her roles.

    Of course, in my own alternative timeline, this would be Lewis Collins second movie as 007... with possibly Diane Lane or Cybill Shepherd as Octopussy.

    I would be interested in seeing Lewis Collins, but not at the expense of Dalton.

    As for AVTAK i'm torn. On one hand, would have Warbeck play Bond one last time, as per my dream Timeline. On the other hand, I would be tempted to bring Dalton in one film earlier (Dalton:Bond v Walken). Either choice, the film would have an energetic feel whether it was Warbecks last, or Daltons first, compared to the tiredness of the film we actually had. The cast would remain largely the same as the film we ended up with, except for the aforementioned changes to Bond, Tanya Roberts replaced with her Charlie's Angels co-star, Jaclyn Smith, and Lois Maxwell replaced as Moneypenny, but I have no idea who with.

    EDIT
    I would also stop the chase before the car is cut into a quarter (it's fine up to that point), and also remove the fire engine chase and comedy police officers.
  • Posts: 3,333
    Your alternative timeline is an interesting one @MajorDSmythe. I agree that Jaclyn Smith, or Cheryl Ladd for that matter, would have been far better choices out of the Charlie's Angels actresses over Tanya Roberts. I have no such qualms about losing Dalton as in our present timeline we already have him. I also think that had he made one Bond movie earlier, I'm not entirely sure whether he would've won over the US audience any sooner. The other problem was Dalton wasn't interested in taking part in any Bond screen tests as he didn't like the direction that the movies had gone in. After the buffoonery of OP, I'm not entirely convinced Cubby was quite ready to abandon his penchant for lame humour either. It was a winning formula for Cubby. I agree that Lois Maxwell should have been replaced earlier too. Diane Keen or Patricia Hodge were notable actresses doing mostly TV work at the time that could've stepped in.
  • Posts: 4,044
    Cheryl Ladd would have been miles better than Tanya.
  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 13,668
    Cheryl Ladd is a good idea. But can she yell "James!"
  • Here we go... THE LIVING DAYLIGHTS.

    maxresdefault.jpg

    Again, this is your chance to say whatever you would have done differently with the film, so things like; plot changes, character additions or subtractions. Anything you like. People will be given the chance to give their responses within 7 DAYS from today (this may change so let me know if you want me to extend the time for longer) until the discussion moves on to the next James Bond film. This will run until we reach SPECTRE.

    Looking forward to hearing what you guys think. Don't worry if you missed out on discussing any of the films. Once we've finished all the James Bond films, this will become a general discussion about what we would change.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    This is a film I have a complicated relationship with. I admit there's a lot to like, and I recognize that it's highly rated by members of this forum. However, it's one where I differ the most with the consensus. I love the PTS and the earlier half in Bratislava, Vienna and the UK but perpetually lose interest once the film hits Afghanistan. Given that's such a large part of the later half of the film, I'm not really sure what could be done. My suggestions include:

    1. make the villains a little more deadly. Koskov seems more like comic relief and I would have preferred it if Krabbe played him differently. Same goes for Whittaker, who I find a bit dull.
    2. shorten the Afghanistan section considerably & move some of the final battle indoors (perhaps into a hangar or something). I find it lacks tension and is too explosion filled. More suitable for an Indy film than Bond.
    3. make the final confrontation at Whittaker's more intense. I don't think too highly of it as it stands.
    4. edit the concert section at the end, especially the bit when Kamran's men show up. A member recently mentioned (I'm sorry but I can't remember who it was) that it should have just been Bond in the audience watching Kara. I think that could have been better.
    5. I personally would have preferred another actress for Kara, but I realize that's a non starter with many members, since she seems to have her fans.

    That's about it.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,287
    There is much to like in TLD.
    1/Dalton looks the part (was the "comma" above his eyebrow a conscious decision??)
    2/the PTS rocks
    3/anything to do with "strawberry jam" floats my boat, and the defected Koskov
    4/HQ/Q-branch is cool for '87-- large screens and discussing who the potential sniper was (although, discussing it with MP???)...
    5/the Safe House and subsequent attack of Necros...
    6/Bond going to Kara to investigate Koskov's dissapearance
    7/Aston Martin/sled chase
    8/Saunders death and Bond's reaction
    9/Pushkin confrontation
    10/Pushkin assassination
    11/Bond being drugged
    12/Bond confronts Koskov on plane
    13/Necros vs Bond...

    Lots to love, but Kara sucks. Have you seen what women in Eastern Europe look like? Most are not androgynous, pre-pubescent twigs.

    If Bond got his balls busted in CR, I'd hate to see what skeletal thighs did to his nether-region in TLD.

    Cast someone sexy. I know it was the AIDs era, but still, hot is hot; anorexic twelve year olds are not.... Just saying (back me up here @barryt007!!!)...

    The fight in the prison is terrible... Plus I can see Bond's saliva as he gives his version of pain-face... AND 007 should be able to kick that humpty-dumpty jail-keeper real fast. Should be no contest... But noooo. They have a "battle"...

    "Are you calling me a horses ass"... W... T... F...?????

    14/Afghanistan looks beautiful and mysterious
    15/Bond looks great and dangerous in disguise.

    Kara almost kills both of them on the plane. RE-CAST KARA to someone sexy and relatively smart, please!!

    The show-down at Whitaker's was good in concept, but rushed and confused in execution-- take your time here and gives us a great mano a mano...

    Kill the conclusion with Kara and James and write something new...
  • Posts: 16,061
    Get rid of the naked guys running around. That joke, IMO was never funny.
    Let Koskov die when the plane cashes into him.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 2,913
    As others have said, there's a lot to like in TLD. I think the film's main flaws are (1) weak villains and (2) an over-complicated plot.
    To fix (1), some recasting might be required. Krabbe is a very good actor, but his Koskov is more comical than evil. Ditto for Joe Don Baker as Whittaker.
    Fixing (2) would require more thought, but perhaps Whittaker's character isn't really necessary to the film and could be written out, thus giving more villainy to Koskov. And perhaps that diamond smuggling subplot didn't need fleshing-out.

    Going in a different direction, I sometimes wonder what the film might have been like if Kara really had been a top KGB sniper, as she was in Fleming's original short story (there she was known only as "Trigger"). Obviously this would have resulted in a much different movie, but it could have been a very interesting one. Various scenarios could be spun from it: Bond and Trigger finding themselves repeatedly assigned against each other, with a twisted love affair developing between the two assasins. Unlike the film of TSWLM, where XXX was rather cuddly and never seemed that deadly, Trigger would have to be portrayed as an honest-to-God killer and very good at her job.
    Perhaps there would be a sad finale where Trigger is jailed or fatally punished by the KGB for her failure. Or perhaps both she and Bond ultimately choose patriotism over love and the film ends where it began, with Bond assigned to shoot Trigger before she kills someone else--and this time having no choice but to kill her, albeit with deep sadness afterward.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    TLD is one of my favorites so I wouldn't change much.

    .Use the same take of "Bond. James Bond." as in the trailer. It sounds much better.
    .Recast Felix. Maybe with David Hedison. A little continuity never hurt anyone.
    .Don't have Kara screaming "James" so much during the climax.
    .Don't have Bond waste bullets on Whitaker's shield. That was just out of character.

    Still a 9.5/10 film in my book.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 684
    Many things here I agree with: Koskov dying at the airfield, no John Terry, no Kamran and co. bursting in on the performance at the end, no/reconceptualized jailhouse fight, and some tweaking is in order for the Kara character.
    Birdleson wrote:
    1. Lose the bit with the Rosika and Lenkin. It's the kind of scene that would irk me enough in a Moore film, but it is really out of place here.
    Yes. If we must keep it in so Bond doesn't have it too easy at the pipeline, then perhaps have Rosika seduce this guy as an adult woman would and not as a 14-year-old boy would imagine.

    In the same spirit of keeping the 'pitch' of the film lower, cut the gadgets and the gags from the car chase. No bumbling police, no laser beam cutting the police car in two, no wheel cutting hole in the ice, no driving a shed, no "salt corrosion" or "optional extras" or "time to leave." Just a gripping car chase.

    No cello sled either.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Agreed.
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,287
    @Revelator -- I like your Trigger re-imaging of TLD... A story like that could certainly lead down some dark alleys... I wonder if an audience in '87 could have handled something like this...
  • Posts: 15,034
    Like others I say first make Koskov more menacing and drop the comedic aspect of the character. Keep Krabbe who is an excellent actor but rewrite Koskov entirely. Recast Whittaker AND rewrite him a good deal. Make Bond a better fighter (my main issue with Dalton as Bond). Maybe make Koskov a recurring adversary for future movies.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    @Birdleson pretty much said it all.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 3,333
    Can't disagree with anything that's been written here so far about TLD. A good Bond movie letdown by some of the silliness leftover from the Moore years. One of my biggest inward groans I had when seeing this for the first time back in 87 at the Royal Premiere was the character Rubavitch played by Virginia Hey. Combined with the Krabbe continually playing his part as a snivelling coward and the Q scene, it was the first early warning signs that this movie wasn't quite going to be a return to form of the great Connery 007 years that I was hoping it would be. That said, Dalton is a breath of fresh air and is very good as 007. It has its faults but it's a vast improvement over what proceeded it.

    So to recap, get rid of Rubavitch. Make Krabbe more sinister. Get rid of the silly humour and that daft cello case sled scene and "salt corrosion". Maybe find a more alluring actress than Maryam d'Abo to play Kara Milovy, who I didn't find sexy then and still don't. Change the ending.
  • w2bondw2bond is indeed a very rare breed
    Posts: 2,252
    Valid points, but as TLD is my favourite Bond film I don't have much to fault. I would remove the Rosika Miklos scene that, after a very tense start, throws away any tension. I'd remove the Felix scene as well.
  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    Revelator wrote: »
    As others have said, there's a lot to like in TLD. I think the film's main flaws are (1) weak villains and (2) an over-complicated plot.
    To fix (1), some recasting might be required. Krabbe is a very good actor, but his Koskov is more comical than evil. Ditto for Joe Don Baker as Whittaker.
    Fixing (2) would require more thought, but perhaps Whittaker's character isn't really necessary to the film and could be written out, thus giving more villainy to Koskov. And perhaps that diamond smuggling subplot didn't need fleshing-out.

    Going in a different direction, I sometimes wonder what the film might have been like if Kara really had been a top KGB sniper, as she was in Fleming's original short story (there she was known only as "Trigger"). Obviously this would have resulted in a much different movie, but it could have been a very interesting one. Various scenarios could be spun from it: Bond and Trigger finding themselves repeatedly assigned against each other, with a twisted love affair developing between the two assasins. Unlike the film of TSWLM, where XXX was rather cuddly and never seemed that deadly, Trigger would have to be portrayed as an honest-to-God killer and very good at her job.
    Perhaps there would be a sad finale where Trigger is jailed or fatally punished by the KGB for her failure. Or perhaps she and Bond ultimately chooses patriotism to their own countries over love and the film ends where it began, with Bond assigned to kill Trigger before she kills someone else--and this time having no choice but to kill her, albeit with deep sadness afterward.

    Wouldn't have minded something like this for Dalton's fourth film.
  • Posts: 16,061
    Several valid points being made here on TLD.
    Not much I would change, though it is a great film to speculate the "what if's". Pierce in the role for instance, even Roger back for an eighth. I love the film as is.
    Some of the elements posted here I agree with:

    Use the "Bond James Bond" from the teaser trailer, as well as Belle Avery's natural voice. I love the "who are you?' in the trailer.

    Use a different take of Tim's pain face during the jailbreak. The spit is so noticeable it's distracting, and not exactly cool.

    As for the cast, I really wouldn't change much. I love Maryam and her Kara portrayal. I do feel some of her wardrobe doesn't flatter her, and in some scenes her hair is considerably shorter than in others. Still she's one of my favorite Bond girls.

    John Terry's Felix gets a lot of flak. But with a reason. His "well, you've got me James" does sound a bit like a high school student reading from a script. But Felix isn't given anything to do here. I was thrilled, when the film came out his character was brought back though regardless.
    As for the man himself, I would give up Tim here for anything. Great portrayal of Fleming's Bond. He looks great as well, If I had to nitpick, maybe give him the haircut he'd later wear in THE ROCKETEER. It's a bit more timeless and Bondian, IMO. Basically a trimmed version of the TLD style.
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,203
    I understand where they were going with Terry: younger Moneypenny, younger Leiter. But the casting didn't work. If it had worked, they could have had the same Leiter in LTK from the previous film.

    Shame, really.

    TLD makes few missteps in my view. I would recast Joe Don Baker and make Krabbe more menacing/volatile. The second act goes on too long, but that's true of most Bond films. That's about it.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Pierce Brosnan instead of the Dalton.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,978
    Recast John Terry with Stacey Keach. And that's it. The rest of the film, I would leave exactly as it is.
  • edited May 2018 Posts: 2,913
    peter wrote: »
    @Revelator -- I like your Trigger re-imaging of TLD... A story like that could certainly lead down some dark alleys... I wonder if an audience in '87 could have handled something like this...

    Probably not, since the actual film still had holdovers from the Moore era. But we do know that Wilson and Maibaum were willing to experiment at this time--their original intent after AVTAK was a prequel detailing Bond's origin story, starting with his move from the Navy to MI6 (thanks to a family connection--M dated his aunt Charmian!). (There's a two-part synopsis online--here and here--which is in French but can be easily translated and read in Chrome.) But Brocolli disliked the idea and directed them to go in a more conventional direction. Perhaps the world wasn't ready for reboot. Or was it?
    All this reminds me that I still need to read Charles Helfenstein's The Making of the Living Daylights--if only I could find a copy for under $40!
  • peterpeter Toronto
    Posts: 9,287
    thanks for the links @Revelator !!
  • Just wanted to take the time to thank everyone for their contribution, never thought we'd get this far haha :D
  • Posts: 2,115
    FWIW, in the second draft of the script, there is no Aston Martin. Bond steals a police car instead. As a result, he and Kara get to the frozen lake more quickly (because there's no sequence showing the Aston in action).

    Once at the lake, an "ice yacht" comes by. Bond steals that as he tries to get to the border.
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