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Well, @bondsum, taste is subjective. ;-)
Most of your changes would make the film better, I agree. I don't really mind the Russian angle, but it wasn't necessary.
With regards to the fight in the warehouse and at Stacy's, I feel the editing is a bit sloppy as well.
Surely the pts was inspired by it? They should have followed it more closely.
Interesting. I hadn't considered that.
AVTAK needs a page-one rewrite. They had a few decent actors in Walken, MacNee, and Jones and good settings but that's about it.
Then you see AVTAK on opening weekend and it remains almost at the bottom of the series for you until this day. That was and is me and AVTAK.
I always though, even back then, that the other kids in school loved it because it was the newest film. They all labeled RETURN OF THE JEDI as the best Star Wars film.
I certainly liked it, and actually far preferred it to OP at the time. But it was no FRWL or GF, IMO.
Watching it as an adult though is disappointing. There’s a generally bland, lethargic air to the whole film and @bondsum had it pretty much dead on when he described it as a special Simon Templar meets John Steed Tv episode. It’s the sort of film that’s on tv during a quiet Sunday afternoon but no one actually watches.
In the weeks after Roger died I watched 5 of his films from TSWLM to AVTAK and AVTAK easily came off as the weakest.
- Tanya's screaming: I don't mind having a helping of it. In fact based on her character I'd prefer it. Very Saturday matinee heroine. But as @Birdleson pointed out the "James!"es specifically do add up. Although I'd keep the one after May Day dies, when she realizes Bond is alive. That one is nice.
- Keeping the original title as @Thunderfinger suggested. Much prefer FROM A VIEW TO A KILL and there's not really any good reason why it couldn't have been that.
- Moore's cosmetic work, as a few have noted. The film embraces Bond's age in its bones, so should it have in Bond's appearance.
- The fisticuffs. I don't mind an aging Bond running around, physically exerting himself and looking as though he is aged. The fist fights look as they ought, in that respect, but it'd have been better to avoid any extensive use of them, a la the warehouse fight.
- The missed opportunity of making San Fran shine photographically. This might be a problem with the US in general, but it's also a problem the 80s films have with all their locations.
- Nix 'California Girls'
- Nix Q's robot.
- Different, less caricatured actor for Aubergine.
Some others:
- In addition to my above suggestion re: a ringing sound effect to help make Stacey's blimp-napping more conceivable (at least explaining why she doesn't hear Rog calling out to her, not least the airship engine), maybe also add a snippet of dialogue where Walken says, "Cut the motor" or some such and then enhance the sound effect of its revving up again once she's grabbed.
- Use a stuntman to come through the roof of the boat instead of a dummy.
- The cat jump 'scare' when Bond arrives at Stacey's house is dumb.
Changes I very much disagree with:
- Making the film more violent. The film is already actually quite violent (for Bond), and presages the tone of LTK, which I think goes too far (again, for Bond) and ends up coming across as a gimmick. Any more violence here and you'd risk the same. I believe one of Moore's protestations against AVTAK was due to its violence. The strangulation of each Chuck Lee and Godfrey; Zorin feeding the KGB agent to the pump; the mine massacre; Zorin kills directly or is involved in the murder of a lot of people. Note also Moore's tone throughout; grave and growing graver the more the violence stacks up. A testament to Moore's perception of tone and nailing it.
- Allowing Godfrey and Chuck to live. As discussed in the 'Final Mission' thread on AVTAK going at the moment, this adds to the odds stacking up against Bond, as his allies drop off.
- Recasting Grace Jones. It would erase a massive chunk of the film's character.
- Erasing it entirely and doing TLD. A pointless response.
- Removing Gogol and the Russian angle. I think it contributes to Zorin's loose canon nature and helps establish him as a man without a country, in stark contrast to Bond.
- Age difference between Zorin/Bond. Again, per the discussion in the other thread, I feel the contrast in age between Rog and Walken adds to the film instead of subtracts.
Neutral/mixed towards:
- The fire truck chase. I agree that it's lacking compared to some other of Glen's set pieces, but it's still better than much of the action to feature post-GE.
- Iceberg sub. I'm fine with getting rid of Kimberly Jones more so than the iceberg sub. Considering the tone the rest of the film takes, I think it's in order to have a bit of 'Rogtainment" at the beginning.
Nah. AVTAK is high mid-teens enjoyable. DAD is dead last.
Although I do like the idea of calling it Stacey's coda.
Yes that’s the one im thinking of. I like how she takes a noticeable breath before shouting.
I don't think anybody has mentioned the funny cop and his Keystone Cops antics. Please get any trace of him out of this film. A horrible addition to an already flawed film. I guess they just figured it's already bad, let's pile on. Makes me pine for the good old days of J.W. Pepper.
That's yet another piece of the AVTAK puzzle: The tone is all over the place. You have these stark, realistic and violent deaths followed by or preceded by slapstick like the firetruck chase. OP had its moments like this as well, but the balance wasn't nearly as jarring.
Does Stacey cry "James" more than any other Bond girl? It sure seems so.
I'd agree with this, too, however.
Might be a job for the stats thread. Although off the top of my head I can't imagine any closer competition.
Perhaps, but Godfrey's death is more justifiable, since the audience has come to care about the character and his death gives Bond extra reason to defeat Zorin. Chuck is a non-entity whose death is a repeat of Godfrey's and comes off as lazy. His death seems to have been added so the police have more reason to suspect Bond of being a killer, leading in to that stupid scene with San Francisco's finest.
Well no, the point is pretty clear. AVTAK was a waste of cinematic space and was a critical and commercial disappointment. There was no point in doing another traditional-style Bond film with Roger Moore. It was a mistake and added nothing to the series beyond lower box office. It would have made more sense to have let Roger go after OP and bring in a new Bond for TLD, rather than a Goldfinger knockoff. Had the new Bond been Dalton, then he would have enjoyed a longer run. Had it been Brosnan, then he'd have enjoyed a terrific start. Instead the series spun its wheels.
DAD at least has some vitality and a decent first half. AVTAK has neither.
Incidentally, here are some alternate endings for AVTAK that would vastly improved the film:
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Nobody has mentioned the horse injection subplot. I enjoy it and it provides the basis for some of the best and most distinctive elements of the film, but they should'vd tied it adequately into the main plotline. Bond is told to investigate Zorin because he might be leaking technology to the Soviets, so he starts looking into his horse injections? It's a bit thin!
I agree with what I quoted above.
I'm neutral about California Girls and am fine with Kimberley Jones and the sub. It's early into the film, so a little playfulness is accepted.
I think fisticuffs are always welcome, but the use of stuntmen in them and in other action scenes should've been covered up much better. Octopussy did. And the warehouse fight is terrible.
I like the Soviet angle of the story. It sets up Zorin as this maniac that everybody would just prefer to see vanish, even his former employers.
I find that hard to believe. Even with its flaws, there is nothing so terrible about the film or its story that couldn't have been improved with one or two rewrites and better technical execution in certain departments. You make it sound like it was beyond salvation from day one!
This is legitimate point to argue, but I think the goal of this thread is to discuss how to improve each individual film, not how to improve the overall Bond series. Not making AVTAK is not improving it, it's not making it.
Any film has the potential to be good, as long as it has a reasonably good and interesting premise at its center. AVTAK did. Maybe it turned out fine, or maybe not at all, but that potential was there to make a solid film. At any rate, I think today, a reasonable amount of people can look back on it and appreciate at least some of its individual qualities. So to a degree, it did add something to the series. Maybe not enough for most, but it's not a cinematic black hole, either.
Doesn't stop me from enjoying AVTAK, though! Compared to SP, this one actually has a rewatchability factor.
This was cut to get the certificate they were after, but even so don't think it would have been a good scene.
Hear hear. The USA has never looked good in a Bond film.
Didn't know that. Hmm, would be interesting to see the original cut then. Thanks for sharing.
Good thing they cut that shower scene when they did. There was a lot more to come.