It's a PC world....(Talking about being Politically Correct, not your laptop !)

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  • Posts: 7,645
    Bill Maher enjoyable as always.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    Maher is probably one of the most agreeable commentators out there at the moment, and certainly a big hero to anyone motivated by reason and sense. I find myself agreeing with him about 95% of the time of anything he says, if not more, and it's nice to know that you're not the only one uncomfortable with the ways in which the world is shifting right now.
  • Posts: 10,548
    Maher is off-putting to me. So smug.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 1,469
    I would like to see this #MeToo, "All Women Are Good and Most Men Are Bad" movement reach a sort of equal playing field though, where there aren't so many double-standards at work. I'd like it if men weren't run through the mud, as if every one of us is just one step away from a rapist, but people never handle these things delicately and so it's always a case of wild extremes.
    A comment follows, but the main thing I wanted to add was news, if you didn't see it, that this last week a woman from the Los Angeles area who's a member of the state Legislature, Cristina Garcia, was accused of sexually harassing and groping a former staffer, a man. Not only that--the woman (a Democrat) was a leading advocate of the MeToo movement! She's taken a leave of absence from the Legislature.

    I know what 0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 means, and I don't know how it will equalize. I see women continuing to speak out and hold tight to the personal power they're gaining. On the other hand, I think it's up to (us) men to remain solid in our masculinity. Some ways of relating may change, but others definitely won't--it's who we are as humans, with sexual needs, there's a natural "dance" between the sexes, and I detest the idea of being PC.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/08/cristina-garcia-california-metoo-398985

  • RichardTheBruceRichardTheBruce I'm motivated by my Duty.
    Posts: 9,152
    I listened to a C-Span radio segment on sexual harassment this weekend and at the start the conversation rattled off all the possibilities for straight women, gay women, gay men, transgender and others being victims of this wrongdoing.

    All possibilities except the one you just mentioned, @Thrasos. A glaring omission by those involved in their stove-piped agenda-driven approach. Meanwhile, wrong is still wrong.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    FoxRox wrote: »
    Maher is off-putting to me. So smug.
    @FoxRox, I don't feel that way, though Maher and I are pretty well in line so I guess I wouldn't. I could see how some could view him as condescending at times, but when you consider that most of his commentary focuses on the collapsing political party system of America, PC culture and evangelicals, I think he deserves wiggle room to be patronizing considering his targets.
    Thrasos wrote: »
    I would like to see this #MeToo, "All Women Are Good and Most Men Are Bad" movement reach a sort of equal playing field though, where there aren't so many double-standards at work. I'd like it if men weren't run through the mud, as if every one of us is just one step away from a rapist, but people never handle these things delicately and so it's always a case of wild extremes.
    A comment follows, but the main thing I wanted to add was news, if you didn't see it, that this last week a woman from the Los Angeles area who's a member of the state Legislature, Cristina Garcia, was accused of sexually harassing and groping a former staffer, a man. Not only that--the woman (a Democrat) was a leading advocate of the MeToo movement! She's taken a leave of absence from the Legislature.

    I know what 0BradyM0Bondfanatic7 means, and I don't know how it will equalize. I see women continuing to speak out and hold tight to the personal power they're gaining. On the other hand, I think it's up to (us) men to remain solid in our masculinity. Some ways of relating may change, but others definitely won't--it's who we are as humans, with sexual needs, there's a natural "dance" between the sexes, and I detest the idea of being PC.

    https://www.politico.com/story/2018/02/08/cristina-garcia-california-metoo-398985

    @Thrasos, glad to see we chart the same course on these matters.

    I can't comment on that example of female directed harassment, as I haven't heard anything about it, but I don't think those kinds of incidents have as much media traction in the current climate that far more widely favors reporting on vile men in places of power that abuse lowly women; it's more relevant and fits the stereotype of the moment. I also don't know the details of the case, but if it's as asinine as a woman slapping a man's rear I think it's not as pressing as the other acts recently reported that cross into rape or rape through drugging, etc. We worry about kicking out men like Al Franken from society and burning their humanity card while wolfish Weinsteins walk freely; we need to get our priorities more focused.

    I just don't want this sexual assault/harassment issue to mutate into something that becomes distorted and uncontrollable like the race issue has in American since a conspiracy was perpetuated that every white person with a badge was going to shoot you if you had a black complexion. The media and certain politically motivated groups of the time made this conspiracy a perceived reality for impressionable African Americans (propagated by real instances of oppression in the race's past) and as a result a lot of innocent, hard working white cops were shot by those who thought they were rebelling against a non-existent police state of racist white cops. Crime, chaos and murder fueled by fantasy and an overreaction about things that weren't as bad as they were spun to be.

    I could see this current harassment issue charting a similar course as the race one, but in the context of where the culture is now. Basically, that men and women get so cautious and on edge about navigating each other like white cops and African Americans have since Ferguson in America that we regress as a society when it comes to sharing ideas, conversing openly or even interacting with one another in everyday life because we start to believe the media reports and assume that around every corner is another threat to us and ours.

    I don't want women tiptoeing around me out of fear that I'm a closet rapist just because I'm a white man just as I don't like how African Americans can sometimes jump to the conclusion that a white man in a uniform with a gun is going to shoot them in the back the moment they turn away from them. I also don't want to feel like I'm expected to tiptoe around women and restrain myself in a social straightjacket so that I don't cross any unmarked lines, say the wrong thing or act in a way that may trigger the woman to adopt a sense of fear because the media has manipulated them into thinking that I'm about to drag them to a hotel room and do unsavory things to them simply because I complemented their looks or lightly touched their arm.

    I've noticed that issues of race or sex/gender ultimately lead to over-extreme reactions, misperceptions and an ironical reversal of the very language with which we communicate in this day and age. For instance, black people view it as racist that a cop shoots a black person (regardless of context), but when the media and their own surroundings make them think every white cop is a killer in disguise they too are being racist for assuming things about someone just based on one's skin color, the very definition of racism. Additionally, women who bemoan the perceived or actual sexism of the time risk being on the verge of committing the same error themselves by perpetuating the media's stereotype that all white men, and especially those in seats of power, are going to rape them if they get alone with them. We can't let perception beat us and divide us as a society. I like to think we're far smarter than that.

    Not really much else to say right now (it's late here), but I wanted to share some more great commentary from Maher and his panel on this whole issue of harassment:



    Some sober, clear and common sense thoughts are needed at the moment. I just want this whole process to have a moral, practical and fair trajectory that doesn't get out of hand, that's it. All these PC issues are at their objective core great things, as they fight for equality, understanding and unity of many forms, and I of course don't oppose that at all and openly identify myself as a passionate, progressive advocate for all of it. I just don't like how these issues are predictably taken to extremes (see my thoughts above), like those who band together to ruin the reputations of those who make obvious jokes or who say one wrong word or statement in a bad or awkward moment, or those who are now making this harassment issue a women vs. men affair. We need to be more forgiving of simple mistakes and learn that there is an inherent hierarchy to all things. Just as you should save your outrage fueled energy for someone burning a Nazi cross in their yard and not for someone making a joke about a big nosed Jewish person, we should also realize that excessive touching on a first date between a boy and girl are likely just the awkward teenage nerves of both parties and not signs that a rape will soon occur if the police don't step in immediately.

    We do have the ability and sense to handle this harassment issue like adults and with our heads properly screwed on, so I hope that we step away from the distortions and extremes with which we usually operate regarding these matters. It's just a tad demoralizing and sad when you turn on an awards show and most of the messages are about the negative presence of powerful men preying on women, all the presenters of awards are women talking about how much this moment is theirs against the aforementioned evil men and nothing is solved because you're distorting the issue and leaving men out of the discussion unless you're labeling them as perceived rapists. At the Oscars I think Oprah was the only one to actually give voice to the "fantastic" men that also stand by women in today's world and who aren't all rapists in disguise. It's important to note that good men are out there (speaking as one), and that we are as prepared to fight this issue as the women are and simply want that door to be left open for us to give our aid. The abuse of women is a human crisis, gender doesn't matter.

    (On a side note, I also find it rather rich that the biggest spokespeople for this fight against harassment are Hollywood actresses, some of whom knew what Weinstein and others were doing without speaking up in exchange for progressing their careers and who have such a high profile that they can escape a lot of the hopelessness a lot of "normal" women in non-movie star jobs feel who are being abused by those in their workplace and don't have that loud a voice to speak out with to garner instant support. While we clap for another tired speech from a Meryl Streep type crying about her so-called inequality even despite her millions in the bank and high profile, there's forgotten women in the "real world" who don't have that same power to rally against the abuse they suffer underneath in their surroundings with such ease or lack of consequence. I think of those women most, and not of a random B actress from Hollywood who pretends to have limitations on the level of those in other walks of life.)

    In light of this severance of communication between men and women, I've frankly grown sick of hearing women (most of them these celebrity types who are exempt from normal restraints) talk about this "watershed" moment that has suddenly freed them up to finally achieve some form of gender equality on the same field as men. I mean, it took a few scumbags like Weinstein to make them think they could finally have what they always should have and, in this current world, can have? I just don't get it. It seems to me that women sometimes put themselves in subservient positions that they don't hold in reality because they blindly assume that there is no opportunity for them; they are the keepers of the very keys that they use to lock the doors of opportunity ahead of them.

    Women have had unnecessary struggles in the past, to put it lightly, but this isn't 1910 and that isn't the kind of world these western women are living in anymore if I may be so bold. We're seeing record numbers of women in places of power and influence, neck to neck with men, so this "watershed" moment of rebellion and all this talk of finally being free from the chains placed around their wrists is confusing to me and perhaps even deluded. The greatest person I'll ever know, my late grandmother, was a woman of another time that never let her circumstances blockade what she felt she was worthy of, and in the more open-minded and non-regulated and less sexist world we live in now that she didn't get to work in I think women have never been in a better place to make an impact. They don't need a "watershed" moment to break out, they already have the keys of freedom to those locked cell doors in their hands and any good man out there wants to help them reach those goals. And that's where society needs to continue heading, bringing men and women together towards a shared source of opportunity through unity instead of this manipulated division.
  • Posts: 10,548
    Bill O’Reilly is the worst political commentator ever anyway. Just facts.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    What's wrong, @FoxRox, not a fan of the No Spin Zone?
    AnchoredLiveBabirusa-max-1mb.gif
    O'Reilly's creepy relations with women aside, from a purely professional standpoint I don't think any commentator right now has such a monopoly on barren intellectualism, unashamedly lying to the public and being a smarmy douche and general pustule on the arse of the mainstream media as Sean Hannity. Oh, what a face. What a punchable, punchable face.
  • Posts: 1,469
    Meanwhile, wrong is still wrong.
    Yes, absolutely.
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, great post. One word you used that jumped out at me is "overreaction". Just thinking maybe this is inevitable, like extremes. As I think you said, it is good that the truth should come out about abuse and abusers. But I see several women, often activists and/or feminists, using this as a springboard to spout hate toward men. Yes overreaction regarding race too. There could be deeper reasons for why these things are breaking surface now--but my theory is that, in the U.S., a lot of it relates to President Trump and the change from Obama (who I voted for) who so many people (not all!) loved and trusted, to Trump. I think Democrats believe they were swindled in the election and are so mad at Trump that the reaction has in some cases been an overreaction. One benefit to all this that I see is that it's waking up more Americans to their own individual power, rather than letting Daddy President take care of them. But how well is that personal power used? Creatively or destructively?

    I think you're right in what you say about the Hollywood actresses who did what it took to get that role they wanted, and about women who complain about victimization that "they are the keepers of the very keys that they use to lock the doors of opportunity ahead of them."

    I just saw another headline about film director 'Michael Haneke Slams #MeToo Movement as "Witch Hunt"'. How am I around women? Like you, I refuse to tiptoe around women. I know where certain lines are drawn, but I also know where there are no lines!

    I enjoyed the Bill Maher clip! Right on. And since Bill O'Reilly is mentioned, here's one of my favorite clips, which also fits with the overall PC theme:
  • Posts: 10,548
    O'Reilly is one of the biggest idiots I've ever seen. Just sad in every way.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    edited February 2018 Posts: 28,231
    @Thrasos, great response. I'll just reply to parts of it with whatever has struck me...
    Thrasos wrote: »
    One word you used that jumped out at me is "overreaction". Just thinking maybe this is inevitable, like extremes. As I think you said, it is good that the truth should come out about abuse and abusers. But I see several women, often activists and/or feminists, using this as a springboard to spout hate toward men. Yes overreaction regarding race too.
    Overreaction may indeed be inevitable, at least when issues long burning underneath the public/social consciousness are blown apart quite swiftly without the necessary time to parcel it out and really think on our response to said revelations. When all is revealed at once or a big tidal wave or rebellion/movement pushes through in a short space of time there is little time to also stop and really think about how one is acting or reacting to it all, and I think that is what we're seeing in how certain groups are reacting to MeToo and all the people being exposed as serial abusers. I think that the rampant abuse of women in certain places like Hollywood past and present was stirring to people in particular because those like Weinstein don't work alone. They have men and women at the top who get the women vulnerable, bring them to a vulnerable spot for the rape, had them sign non-disclosure papers after the deed was done and all the seedy rest of it. It was a methodical, perfectly oiled machine of abuse with no consequence for the abusers. Look at Cosby and what he was able to do with his team of co-conspirators before Weinstein had the fire lit under his arse? It's been going on forever under our noses, and it just makes you sad that all this can happen and that people allow it to happen. So I sympathize with the heavy reaction, as it's a deserved and inevitable one. How could this kind of thing happen? It's a haunting question to ask oneself.

    This isn't to say anything of those who knew about what was going on who did nothing either, who certainly hold responsibility as well. Additionally, I know it's a death sentence to even imply responsibility on the side of the victims/abused in this climate, but I think we have to be intellectually honest and admit that women suffering in silence without speaking their truth don't help this situation either. Seeing what has happened to women like Rose McGowan, Asia Argento and the other 80 plus women who had to face the abuse of that obscene lard of immoral filth upsets me deeply and I think I speak for any good man by saying I wish I had five minutes in a dark room with Weinstein and a crowbar. But in these matters certain sacrifices must be made, and sadly the victims must be implicated in that action too. Because, if those who have been victimized remain silent, their abuser can only get stronger and go on to abuse more women, it's as simple as that. The action must be taken to stop it at any costs, to save future women from the same fate.

    I don't say this lightly, as it does take immeasurable bravery to face the public court of opinion in this world when you speak about your abuse and all the shame that can come with it, not to even speak of how the abuser may react against you with character assassinations, law suits or even more vile action of censorship. But it needs to be done and I hope the ultimate good that comes out of this MeToo movement, as flawed and late as it is on the coming, is that women who have been abused will feel empowered and able to come forward with the knowledge that they will not only be accepted and believed if they speak the truth, but that they will further be supported in their fight to eradicate the very evils that traumatize them and others like them. Because it should never have happened, and we now have the tools to make sure that it doesn't ever have to happen again.


    On the topic of some activists and feminists using this moment to bring it down on men, I of course agree and I briefly addressed that in my initial post. At the Golden Globes, for example, the presenters were all women and men were completely left out unless a Weinstein or Kevin Spacey were being ridiculed or mocked. That's not showing the full picture and it leads to the perception that men aren't wanted in this fight against abuse, which couldn't be farther from the truth. It's a human issue, gender doesn't matter, to repeat a sentiment I outlined above.

    I don't expect anything less from certain fundamentalist activists and feminists though, the types that still go on about this mythic patriarchy that hounds all women and oppresses them despite women currently climbing ladders of employment and power we've never before seen. There always has to be an excuse for why these types of women aren't taking initiative in their lives and careers and, what do you know, it's always mens' fault. They miserably parade the streets with their signs full of lies and protest while other women join the work force, reach the goals they apply themselves to and somehow manage to overcome the dreaded patriarchy their fellow females suffer underneath to find success and purpose. Whaddaya know?
    Thrasos wrote: »
    There could be deeper reasons for why these things are breaking surface now--but my theory is that, in the U.S., a lot of it relates to President Trump and the change from Obama (who I voted for) who so many people (not all!) loved and trusted, to Trump. I think Democrats believe they were swindled in the election and are so mad at Trump that the reaction has in some cases been an overreaction. One benefit to all this that I see is that it's waking up more Americans to their own individual power, rather than letting Daddy President take care of them. But how well is that personal power used? Creatively or destructively?
    I think Trump has certainly played a part in a lot of movements being empowered or highlighted lately, not just the MeToo one. After all, what better way to bring more notice to sexual harassment and abuse when your president is accused of being a serial committer of those same offenses, but who also spouts hatred and misperceptions of basically everyone who isn't white. I think Trump's amoral core and lack of education on race, economic disparity and the struggles of the people he generalizes (African Americans, Mexicans, Dreamers/DACA kids, etc) have caused those same people to become empowered against him, as well as those who share their sympathies and sentiments if not their specific experiences and struggles. It's a great reaction to see, and I love seeing people of all backgrounds, colors and struggles calling Trump out and saying, "How dare he?" loud and proud. It's about damn time, frankly.

    I think some Democrats could be taking out their sadness over their big loss to Trump by overreacting to him (despite Hillary winning the popular vote by over three million votes), as I do roll my eyes at times seeing what kinds of things people complain about Trump doing. Like the time he was complementing a journalist's smile and the press took that incident and made it seem like he was an exposed misogynist or something to that effect. He makes so many embarrassing mistakes that you can just wait for his next tweet to get him on something, why make up stories or overreact to him in light of that fact?

    I also couldn't agree more that, if one positive comes out of Trump's systematic attack on presidential norms, the media, public perception and morality and truth in general, it's that his unsavory actions and words have empowered people to rally against him as I noted above. I love seeing people unable to take it any more, and now more than ever I see people calling out the president, the houses of Congress, and all the representatives therein with boldness and accountability. We're seeing a public brought to their very brink, unable to be pushed anymore by anyone. An attack on one of us is an attack on all of us, and through Trump's hatred unity and love have risen to combat him. Through amorality, stupidity, racism and hate there is morality, common sense, togetherness and empathy. We live in a world where people are now actively paying attention to the news, to who their representatives are and what the corrupt and misguided are doing to oppose their values, fighting against them with their every step. A modern period of enlightenment on social and political levels.

    The past few months have seen me attempt to downplay Trump's effect or at least curb people calling him the worst president ever, but I understand why people feel as they do because he is having real, detrimental effects on this country. Despite this, I am taken aback by those in my country who have such love in their hearts every day, and I also hold much respect and appreciation for those in the government, a body which is full of good and honorable people. I deeply thank all the Senators, judges and other officials who have stood against Trump, overturned his immigration policies, his transgender ban and further attacks on innocents and norms to protect the defenseless. The president who has no sense of the Constitution or decency is being undone each day by the very checks and balances our founding fathers put in place to stop men like him who have the imbecilic temerity to wage attacks on our institutions, principles and people.

    I'm also someone who holds much stake in the Mueller probe and think there is an overwhelming criminal case to be built against Trump when it comes to both collusion and obstruction of justice. I dream of a day when the buffoon and his whole cadre of inept and unqualified fools are brought out in a sea of linked chains.
    Thrasos wrote: »
    I just saw another headline about film director 'Michael Haneke Slams #MeToo Movement as "Witch Hunt"'. How am I around women? Like you, I refuse to tiptoe around women. I know where certain lines are drawn, but I also know where there are no lines!
    I think it's important not to let this movement change us, or make us constantly second guess every movement we make or word we say around women. As I said, cops and African Americans now have a big divide to cross to meet again because of what misperceptions have been catered to by the media and elsewhere regarding both groups (cops are killers, blacks criminals), and I don't want that to happen with men and women too.

    I have never been a dater, so this current movement doesn't affect me much directly, but you can bet that I'm not at all motivated to seek out companionship when I read some of the headlines these days. Of girls who had consensual sex with a guy and then, after regretting the decision, made up a story that they were raped that they knew would be believed in order to ruin the guy's life and reputation. Or, outside of those rarer cases, simply the ways I've seen men and women awkwardly try to navigate each other post-MeToo. I'm out of college now, but I can only imagine what it would be like to be on a university campus in this climate. You have to watch your hands, watch what you say to avoid saying a banned word, and always be in strict control to avoid offending someone.

    This isn't how it's supposed to be. No generations beforehand self-policed themselves this strictly or senselessly and they turned out fine, so we have to let ourselves open up more and not let this climate make this the new norm. The climate should make us more mindful, but that mindfulness shouldn't demand that we close up shop and quit talking to each other to avoid creating "controversy," "outrage" or "offense." If I find a woman exquisite I should be able to use such an adjective to describe her without being called sexist for not first addressing her intellect, and as long as two people of any persuasion or gender are acting in a consensual sexual congress, I don't think there should be any limits placed upon how they chose to privately interact with one another.

    Movements will come and go and written and unwritten laws or rules will be created out of that social highlighting, but the only changes we should adopt are those that conform to common sense and the common good of the species. Being mindful of women's boundaries and their needs? Check! Avoiding interaction with women to escape talk of boundaries? No, that's going too far (and what would Bond think?!). Being more empathetic and aware of the struggles of others? Most assuredly. Self-censoring everything you say and forfeiting your sense of humor to avoid saying an out of turn joke or offending someone? No, that's going too far as well and I think you'll find that most people are able to take those jokes. Standing against signs of oppression, racism and inequality? Of course, nothing is more important. Wasting time ruing the life of someone who made a silly yet obvious joke about oppression, racism and inequality instead of actively fighting those very things where they reign in the real world? Sorry, can't do it. If we can accept the struggles, lifestyles and the needs of others openly and honestly without shutting off our own minds and bending to outrageous social straightjackets placed upon us by others without such authority, I think we can make it through this.

    @Thrasos, I deeply thank you for having this discussion with me, as I've been able to vent a lot of things that have been boiling in me for a while without escape and I've also been able to formulate a lot of my own ideas and feelings on many issues for the first time in a while. Cheers!
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 533
    I just don't want this sexual assault/harassment issue to mutate into something that becomes distorted and uncontrollable like the race issue has in American since a conspiracy was perpetuated that every white person with a badge was going to shoot you if you had a black complexion. The media and certain politically motivated groups of the time made this conspiracy a perceived reality for impressionable African Americans (propagated by real instances of oppression in the race's past) and as a result a lot of innocent, hard working white cops were shot by those who thought they were rebelling against a non-existent police state of racist white cops. Crime, chaos and murder fueled by fantasy and an overreaction about things that weren't as bad as they were spun to be.


    "Impressionable African Americans"? This phrase alone makes black Americans sound like children. You honestly believe that most black Americans are exaggerating the issue of possibly being targeted by cops? You don't think that most black Americans have a good reason to be paranoid about cops, especially white cops? Or did I misread you?
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe Still waiting for the Jena Malone Batwoman movie that's never going to be made.Moderator
    Posts: 11,973


    I hope that we can look back in a decade or so and laugh at this current cancerous movement, having found a compromise between complaining about everything and understanding the nuance of rape and ass patting as being heavily delineated in severity and jokes about races not being punishable by death. In short, I hope common sense and a sense of humor return once again to our collective discourse that shuts out this hilariously misguided outrage that misses all the important issues like women's rights, poverty, child safety and hate crimes while we waste time ruining a white man's career for dressing like an indian and prohibiting the use of triggering terms like "crazy," "lame" and "gay."

    If the radical feminists, band-aid brigade PC complainers and professional outrage artists die out, crawl back into their holes or don't reproduce because nobody could stand being around them for even a second, then I think this development will be as valid a proof of evolution and survival of the fittest as the Galapagos finches. Surely these people are not the best of us, and surely they cannot sustain their hollow lives, wallowing in their own self-designed haplessness while forcing the rest of us to adopt their mewling dogma?

    Never heard of Bill Maher before, but going of that clip, I like his attitude. There needs to be more people like him, willing to speak up, and not be afraid to call out the rampant stupidity that is running wild.
  • Posts: 4,427
    We seem to live in times when band wagons are rocket assisted.

    Any trend or movement becomes super speeded up with the media, the public and celebs jumping on the wagon. This leads to a genuine lack of balance and debate. The "me too" movement is the perfect example of this IMHO.
    People like BM are rare these days and you do worry that his views are so different from the band wagon that he may lose his platform as the TV networks get pressurised to "fall in line".
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    DRush76 wrote: »
    I just don't want this sexual assault/harassment issue to mutate into something that becomes distorted and uncontrollable like the race issue has in American since a conspiracy was perpetuated that every white person with a badge was going to shoot you if you had a black complexion. The media and certain politically motivated groups of the time made this conspiracy a perceived reality for impressionable African Americans (propagated by real instances of oppression in the race's past) and as a result a lot of innocent, hard working white cops were shot by those who thought they were rebelling against a non-existent police state of racist white cops. Crime, chaos and murder fueled by fantasy and an overreaction about things that weren't as bad as they were spun to be.


    "Impressionable African Americans"? This phrase alone makes black Americans sound like children. You honestly believe that most black Americans are exaggerating the issue of possibly being targeted by cops? You don't think that most black Americans have a good reason to be paranoid about cops, especially white cops? Or did I misread you?
    What's there to misread, @DRush76? I was clear as could be.

    I don't know where you live, or what your experiences have been, but these issues are prevalent in America. I don't think calling people "impressionable" is equating them to children, it's simply pointing out how they are susceptible to the manipulation of the media and the exaggerations that are peddled by a 24 hours news day that make everything seem worse than it is. I mean, how much coverage of violent crime and drug trafficking do we hear day and night, making people actually think that we've never lived in more dangerous times? But if you actually remove yourself from the media echo chamber of fear through exaggeration and constant reporting, you will find that violence/crime has been steadily dropping on trend for decades now.

    If African Americans think that every white cop is gunning for them or that there is a secret police run sect targeting blacks for murder to purify the country, yes, I think they are overexaggerating. African Americans have reason to be paranoid about cops at times, because as I pointed out there is an ingrained American history of oppression upon them and even as recent as the 90s the world saw white cops brutalizing black people in places like Los Angeles. But the paranoia has gone to absolute delusion, in part because of groups like Black Lives Matter who you'd think really want every African American to think that white cops, no matter who they are, are the enemy and need to be stopped. After Ferguson it was these kinds of people who carried signs with things like "Roast the Pigs" on them, making generalizations about every cop serving in the country and firing up those thick enough to buy into that farce. It's that kind of fear mongering that has led to blacks shooting random white cops in protest of the white law enforcement that they've been fooled to believe are part of a genuine secret operation against their race coordinated across the United States.

    The group "Blue Lives Matter" was created in opposition to the Black Lives Matter to show that cops' lives are valuable too, and strived to point out that the vast majority of cops want to help stop racist crime issue and aren't part of the problem. But the generalizations about white cops have really gone off the rails, and at the time of Ferguson it was probably the most dangerous job to have if you were Caucasian. I don't respect those "activists" who want to make simple generalizations about groups of people, dividing the cops and African American community and halting them from crossing the aisle, talking to one another and trying to work together to solve the issues of their areas.

    I appreciate those in the African American community (which I hope are most) that don't fall for the Black Lives Matter tricks, and who know that in reality the vast, vast number of cops with white skin aren't going to kill them the minute they walk outside. But I don't have any respect for "activists" like the more radical BLM members who waged a war on all cops, judging them without knowing anything about them, and effectively helped incite the same ironic violence against the cops that they perceived was being systematically mounted against their entire race in their mad delusion. These are the same falsely sanctimoniously people who destroyed businesses in their own communities and robbed the stores they helped burn down, causing millions of dollars in damages while hypocritically protesting the cops that they generalized as all being criminals with badges. I'm sorry, but that completely invalidates any of their protests and muddles their messages.

    Because any member of the Black Lives Matter or another activist group who is fighting for black rights and opposing cops who commits crimes like vandalism, theft and destruction as part of their protests are not only being senseless heathens, they are fitting the very image of the cruel stereotype they've had to suffer underneath for decades now. These kinds of people are part of the problem, not the solution, and they make it more difficult to reach any stability on this race issue.
  • Posts: 7,645
    Dear Brady we see a lot of unnecessary police violence perpetrated on the NON-white society and such excesses that you can easily wonder if there is such a thing as an exaggeration when it comes to racism.

    That combined with killing by cops in such a way that all of them would be criminally prosecuted in most civilized countries in the western world. Not so in the US were the gun culture has seeped into police violence which happens too often.

    I do not say that ll policemen and police forces are inherent criminal. But everytime one is investigated one of the results is excess violence and racism.

    Do not blame everything on the media but on the perception of white people whodo seem to have ideas that are not quite rooted into reality.

    This last paragraph is not aimed at you Brady.
    As for #metoo I do hope a lot of scumbags are brought to justice and everytime I hear one of those "famous people" doing something that is actually quite unappropriated and if they tried that with my daughters I would find no sympathy at all for their future, preferable in jail (finding out how it is like to be somebody's b......). It has nothing to do with PC in overtime it has to do that now seems to be the time for men to be held responsible for their behaviour. Which is fine by me. I hope it will flush a lot of shitheads out, but then again the president of the US is the example of a shithead in charge with his attitude against women. So I expect less will happen.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Dear Brady we see a lot of unnecessary police violence perpetrated on the NON-white society and such excesses that you can easily wonder if there is such a thing as an exaggeration when it comes to racism.

    That combined with killing by cops in such a way that all of them would be criminally prosecuted in most civilized countries in the western world. Not so in the US were the gun culture has seeped into police violence which happens too often.

    I do not say that ll policemen and police forces are inherent criminal. But everytime one is investigated one of the results is excess violence and racism.

    Do not blame everything on the media but on the perception of white people whodo seem to have ideas that are not quite rooted into reality.

    @SaintMark, there is an inarguable history of violence or general oppression against African Americans in the states, which is why I was careful to say that that history plays a role in the delusion that there is a systematic, white cop led kill squad against that race. African Americans believe the misperception because it fits a common pattern to them. But this isn't Civil War time.

    There are cases where the law could be harder on cops, I agree, but penalties have been given out in the past in cases that demanded it. In some cases it is hard to conclude just what happened either way, and so you must rely on less reliable bits of witness statements with their own biases or mental pitfalls that lead to inconclusive charges. That being said, there are some cases where cops shoot African Americans who, before they were shot, refused to put their hands up, grabbed for something that could've been a weapon, or did actually have a weapon and was intent on using it to shoot the cops in question. Some people in the states seem to be of the mind that cops should just let themselves be shot rather than shoot someone who is very clearly attempting to reach for something that could end their own life, just because they are black.

    I don't think people are aware enough of what it would be like in those situations, to be a cop in those shoes. If you see someone you're telling to make no movements and put their hands up who not only refuses to raise their hands but also races to get something on their person, the only reaction one should have is to defend oneself. This isn't how every situation goes, of course, but I find it very disingenuous for people to call for white cops to be jailed when the people they were accused of shooting for racial reasons were clearly trying to kill them just before they died. Cops have the right to defend themselves in those cases, and it's important for anyone being asked questions by cops, no matter their skin color or gender, to listen carefully and do as they are told.

    I don't agree with cases where officers get unnecessarily rough with any suspects, though, as I don't think that is very professional. In some of these cases cops have killed people just by pressing their bodies on a perpetrator and blocking their airways, which is just a ridiculous happening and deserving of the punishment coming to them. I think a lot more education could be done to make cops more professional and level-headed on the job, and those interacting with cops could work on their attitudes as well. The best chance our society has is to work from the community policing model, where cops and the people they serve are brought together through common understanding. There is too much division at the moment.

    You speak of whites having "ideas that are not quite rooted in reality," but they are not the ones that think white cops are the enemy and need to be roasted like the pigs some amongst Black Lives Matter think they are. That is a delusion and a destructive generalization. These people have no feet to stand on when they destroy their own local businesses, loot shops and cause personal damages while they protest and label all cops as a problem with no sense of irony in their criminal actions. I would be curious how they'd feel if they were in danger one night and had no cops to call for help. Maybe then they'd find out that the vast majority of cops aren't the enemy and are there to help them. The cops don't take up these jobs for the princely pay or to kill blacks with impunity; they want to protect and serve and must say goodbye to their loved ones each time they go on duty with the knowledge that they may not come back. I wish more could have that perspective, as it would stop these generalizations against cops from taking root and halt the violence that is incited through those delusions.
  • Are you really only in your early 20's Brady? Because you're wise beyond your years.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    @Master_Dahark, I turned 24 last year, yes. I feel from another time, and get told that often, but besides that I try to be more informed about certain things in the world. I feel it's important to stay informed these days, but I also have a natural curiosity and interest in learning.

    But now that you're here, I would be interested to hear your perspectives on this, as you are a white law enforcement officer in America. Do you feel the culture has changed in how police interact with the public, and do you feel the pressures of these race issues yourself at times when you head out on duty? You strike me as a very laid back and down to earth guy who has a good sense of humor, but I'm sure that some of the headlines you see worry you when it comes to protecting and serving. The generalizations about cops, the issues of crime that pop up sparking race wars and the very nature of the job and its own inherent obligations and strains.

    At college most of the friends I made were heading into law enforcement and that's because most of my favorite moments were spent in electives focusing on law enforcement and crime where I quickly became close to the other kids as we tackled very trying issues in our country that brought us together. Naturally I worry about these people often, knowing the hard job they'll be heading into, especially in light of how cops are sometimes targeted as an enemy instead of as the protectors that the vast majority are. My respect for those that do what you do is virtually unending.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,492
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Dear Brady we see a lot of unnecessary police violence perpetrated on the NON-white society and such excesses that you can easily wonder if there is such a thing as an exaggeration when it comes to racism.

    That combined with killing by cops in such a way that all of them would be criminally prosecuted in most civilized countries in the western world. Not so in the US were the gun culture has seeped into police violence which happens too often.

    I do not say that ll policemen and police forces are inherent criminal. But everytime one is investigated one of the results is excess violence and racism.

    Do not blame everything on the media but on the perception of white people whodo seem to have ideas that are not quite rooted into reality.

    This last paragraph is not aimed at you Brady.
    As for #metoo I do hope a lot of scumbags are brought to justice and everytime I hear one of those "famous people" doing something that is actually quite unappropriated and if they tried that with my daughters I would find no sympathy at all for their future, preferable in jail (finding out how it is like to be somebody's b......). It has nothing to do with PC in overtime it has to do that now seems to be the time for men to be held responsible for their behaviour. Which is fine by me. I hope it will flush a lot of shitheads out, but then again the president of the US is the example of a shithead in charge with his attitude against women. So I expect less will happen.

    Black on black crime far outweighs cop on black crime. As Brady says, the media should be somewhat accountable for their shit stirring. It’s a socio-economic problem, not a racist one. The former doesn’t sell papers. The latter does.
  • But now that you're here, I would be interested to hear your perspectives on this, as you are a white law enforcement officer in America. Do you feel the culture has changed in how police interact with the public, and do you feel the pressures of these race issues yourself at times when you head out on duty? You strike me as a very laid back and down to earth guy who has a good sense of humor, but I'm sure that some of the headlines you see worry you when it comes to protecting and serving. The generalizations about cops, the issues of crime that pop up sparking race wars and the very nature of the job and its own inherent obligations and strains

    Well I have a bit of a unique perspective, as I joined at age 30, spending my Academy time with lots of 21-25 year olds. For me, the way the public views law enforcement plays a bit into every action I take. I'm constantly asking myself "if I go ahead with ____, how will it make the police look?"

    I hear the 'only a few bad apples' and 'they look after their own' argument a lot. With the State Police, we're held to an extremely high standard. I remember first joining this forum waaaay back in 2011; at that time I had actually just gotten my foot in the door with the long application process, and didn't get hired and go to the Academy until 2013! They look at your whole life, talk to your neighbors, polygraph, the works.
    You're talking to a guy who's never gotten in trouble with the law, just finished college, got a boring job and went about his business without a blip on the radar, and I was STILL in the application process for more than a year! Maybe they just couldn't believe it, lol ;)
    Long story short, all the men & women I work with went through the same process, and are good people, period.

    The point I was getting at is that so often I hear that 'good cops' should turn in the bad ones, or they're just as bad. Well..... I guess I just don't work with any.

    But I still hear things on the news, just like any of you. For example, this is close to home: the 2 Baltimore City cops this week who just got convicted of racketeering. When we (Troopers) see stuff like that on the news, you know what we all say? GOOD. Get the dicks who make us look bad out of here!

    While saying there isn't a problem in the USA at all would be naive, I can promise all of you, that everyone I work with is professional. And when I've worked alongside County & City police, I've never had a problem.

    Back to what you were saying about the white vs black conflict, this may make some people roll their eyes, but I'm telling the truth: I treat everyone equal. I always start with respect, and so does everyone I work with.
    Remember what Dalton said in Roadhouse?

    6dbcd2f3ef5a42e71dededd7da18d71453a00a916a70652fec39654a8dfba991.jpg

    That's me in a nutshell. I'm the nicest cop you'll meet, until somebody decides to turn things south.

    I'll give you two quick stories if you'll permit me- just to show that race is the last thing on our minds when we're in the shit.
    Last October I got a call from a concerned citizen for a possibly impaired driver going along the highway all over the lanes, the usual. I catch up and hit my lights, and they don't stop. I pull up to their left and yell out the window to pull the hell over; I see two guys laughing hysterically (later found to be on PCP). Finally I ease back, pull up on their right and move ahead, hoping to gently drift in front of them and slow them to a complete stop. It was just me so that's all I had to work with. Instead they crashed into me pretty hard. They ended up partially flipped over onto their side, while my car was stuck to theirs, half a car length in front of them. If you can picture it, if they had a gun I'd be at a major disadvantage. I twisted myself around in my seat and had my gun drawn. Admittedly this is one of the more hyped up moments I've had; I was literally ready to shoot if they showed me anything besides their empty hands. Luckily they stayed put and all I had to do then was wait for backup. Two idiots who took PCP and thought it would be a good idea to drive.

    Then just last week, another PCP story coincidentally, I got sent to a single vehicle collision. This guy had the rear end of his truck on top of the guardrail (I still don't know how the hell he did that) and was actively trying to drive off. After getting him from the vehicle, he kept saying he wasn't in a crash, and hobbled over to the rear of the truck to try and physically lift it off the guardrail! I was talking him down, and in the period of 5 minutes he was freezing cold, then so hot he wanted to strip, then started swiping at his stomach saying there were bugs on him. This was a big dude too, 310lbs according to his license( and PCP, not a good combo). I had help with me this time, and after ruling out any medical emergency (fire & EMS was there), the cuffs came out. He heavily resisted, and wore our asses out, but because he never took a swing at us, neither did we. One arm was cuffed with away, but the other one was a bitch. We finally got him fully cuffed and caught our breath, while our impaired friend actually passed out, lol (why couldn't he have done that a minute ago?)


    Story #1: two white guys. Story #2: black guy. I would have handled it the same way if it was switched.


    I don't talk about my job too often here- I'm here for Bond & good conversation- but if anyone ever has questions for me I'm happy to answer! Let me just leave with this: for every negative police story in the news, there's a thousand positive ones that nobody ever hears about.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,358
    Let me just leave with this: for every negative police story in the news, there's a thousand positive ones that nobody ever hears about.
    YEP!
  • Posts: 10,548
    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/men-gaslighting-celeb-suggesting-boys-broken-wake-florida-shooting-203338071.html

    If boys are "broken," society is the one to blame. Many comments on this page speak the truth: this country has been emasculating and villainizing boys too much (specifically white straight males), and obviously that can only backfire. One thing that really bothers me about many liberals is the way they put down straight white boys/men, because the others are all better and it's the PC thing to do. Believe me, I know conservatives have done a lot to hurt this country, but liberals have done their fair share as well.
  • edited February 2018 Posts: 684
    @FoxRox Yes, the blame does lie with society. Take those quoted in the article to which you linked. That apparent celebrity and the social researchers appear to believe that the way forward with raising boys is to raise them to be unlike boys. If you want to 'break' boys, that's a good way to do it. The article attempts to dismiss this idea of course:
    "These threads are woven into the fabric of male development from early on, naturalized by dubious “boys will be boys” claims of biological inheritance."
    Dubious, the thinking presumably goes, because instead of biology it's a matter of 'learning,' which we as a society are expected to be more easily able to fix:
    "What does normative masculine socialization, built into boyhood, have to do with preventing violence? Boys first learn to assert themselves with aggression and even violence to “ward off or eliminate the feeling of shame and humiliation,” in the view of psychiatrist James Gilligan, author of Violence: Reflections on a National Epidemic. The problem is that from very early on boys contend with peer norms legitimizing meanness, putdowns, and domination. To survive, each boy learns to harden his heart, suppress natural feelings of empathy, and exhibit a public face meant to deter efforts to take advantage of any weakness."

    The matter of boys and violence is far more complicated than blaming 'learned' male aggressiveness. The idea of aggression is imprecise, first of all. Aggressiveness tends to be conceptually associated with violence, yes, but it is a drive that finds expression in different ways in all humans. Males are much more prone to physical aggression (pushing, shoving, kicking, etc.) of course but it's not as if females don't express aggression in other ways (social relations).

    Then why are males more likely to engage in activities that have the potentiality to result in physical or mortal harm? Rather than aggression, risk-taking. Aren't males simply wired to more readily engage in risky behavior? This is not inherently a good or bad thing; it's both. Sometimes this means saving someone from a burning building, other times it means betting money on the horse races or committing homicide. Consider this in the evolutionary idea of male expendability (sperm is less valuable than a womb), suppose it alongside the idea that males are less agreeable than women, even that they are physically stronger, and a thousand other factors, etc.

    On another level, anyone who looks at the latest shooting and thinks, "The main trouble here is boys," totally misses the mark, and has let some ideology take hold of them. Boys are a factor, yes. So are women. So is the 24/7 news cycle. So are gun control laws. And on and on.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 It was this or the priesthood.
    Posts: 28,231
    @Master_Dahark, I really appreciate you sharing since you have direct experience. And you basically support what I'd been arguing: that most cops are good people who do the job to help their communities and do so for no other reasons. It's nice to hear that you have that kind of impartial and open approach to the job, as that will serve you well.

    I also agree about the great cop stories you never hear. Just on the news yesterday I heard of a wonderful cop who set up a funding page for a family that was evicted or something similar, and gave them money out of his own pocket so that they could afford to get a hotel room to stay at for the time being. Being around the future cops at college really made me quite proud, as I had a lot of faith in the people I saw and was confident that they would bring a sense of justice and safety to whatever area they'd end up serving in. For jobs like that, it's important to have the best of us on the streets.
    FoxRox wrote: »
    https://www.yahoo.com/lifestyle/men-gaslighting-celeb-suggesting-boys-broken-wake-florida-shooting-203338071.html

    If boys are "broken," society is the one to blame. Many comments on this page speak the truth: this country has been emasculating and villainizing boys too much (specifically white straight males), and obviously that can only backfire. One thing that really bothers me about many liberals is the way they put down straight white boys/men, because the others are all better and it's the PC thing to do. Believe me, I know conservatives have done a lot to hurt this country, but liberals have done their fair share as well.

    @FoxRox, the recent regression of the left has driven me more independent than I've ever been in my life politically; just goes to show how far they've fallen. Just as the conservatives have been guilty of holding progress back in the past, now the liberals who seem to love diversity so much are ironically ruling with an iron fist and imposing censorship on anyone that doesn't fit their strict code and mission statement. It's nauseating to hear these people talk, complaining about someone's trivial opinion and treating it like a heart attack.

    What pisses me off more is how the rest of society just bends to them like *that*, no matter how much of a minority they may be amidst the population (they're certainly loud enough to sound like many). I read every day about someone who has to apologize for saying something that wouldn't have offended most people a few years ago, but that's exactly what you have to do now with these people who have somehow taken over the world with their childish inability to understand nuance and hierarchies and can't grasp a basic sense of humor. You apologize to them and promise never to have an opinion again or away goes your career, which they hold ransom like bubblegum terrorists. We should fight back at them with our own brand of outrage, delivering to them their own medicine in parody form. Maybe then they'll grow up and understand what it's like to be on the other side. The hypocrisy and triviality of it is headache inducing.
  • Posts: 10,548
    I feel I have no choice but to be politically independent, seeing as the Republican and Democratic parties become more radical and oppressive every day. They are two different brands of evil, and both have contributed to a depressing current American society.
  • Posts: 7,645
    RC7 wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Dear Brady we see a lot of unnecessary police violence perpetrated on the NON-white society and such excesses that you can easily wonder if there is such a thing as an exaggeration when it comes to racism.

    That combined with killing by cops in such a way that all of them would be criminally prosecuted in most civilized countries in the western world. Not so in the US were the gun culture has seeped into police violence which happens too often.

    I do not say that ll policemen and police forces are inherent criminal. But everytime one is investigated one of the results is excess violence and racism.

    Do not blame everything on the media but on the perception of white people whodo seem to have ideas that are not quite rooted into reality.

    This last paragraph is not aimed at you Brady.
    As for #metoo I do hope a lot of scumbags are brought to justice and everytime I hear one of those "famous people" doing something that is actually quite unappropriated and if they tried that with my daughters I would find no sympathy at all for their future, preferable in jail (finding out how it is like to be somebody's b......). It has nothing to do with PC in overtime it has to do that now seems to be the time for men to be held responsible for their behaviour. Which is fine by me. I hope it will flush a lot of shitheads out, but then again the president of the US is the example of a shithead in charge with his attitude against women. So I expect less will happen.

    Black on black crime far outweighs cop on black crime. As Brady says, the media should be somewhat accountable for their shit stirring. It’s a socio-economic problem, not a racist one. The former doesn’t sell papers. The latter does.

    I disagree with anything you say you have a President who openly supports racists by calling some of them good, the far right have never been so much in the driver seat before in a long time. The US still suffers a lot of racism and while violence among the coloured folks is a fact people use that as a reasoning to say that the media is to blame for the picture of racism. They are starting to paint a picture that might not be appreciated by the Whites but more and more it becomes clear that the US society is a very divided one in which sexism (VIAGRA paid by health care and birth control not), racism are still in full bloom.
    Blacklivesmatter & #METOO should be seen as what they are a signal that there is a lot to change in the years to come. Only if the WHITE elite does want to do so, but so far they want to build a wall against crime. And the truth is that more lives die annually by guns an industry due to economic pressure being kept alive and so on.

    We see every day that the great democracy in the US gets eaten away by its WHITE elite and it will perhaps far sooner than we think change into something far scarier. I am not so hopeful about the US these days. Lives matter but money and power seems to dictate this once great nation.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,492
    SaintMark wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Dear Brady we see a lot of unnecessary police violence perpetrated on the NON-white society and such excesses that you can easily wonder if there is such a thing as an exaggeration when it comes to racism.

    That combined with killing by cops in such a way that all of them would be criminally prosecuted in most civilized countries in the western world. Not so in the US were the gun culture has seeped into police violence which happens too often.

    I do not say that ll policemen and police forces are inherent criminal. But everytime one is investigated one of the results is excess violence and racism.

    Do not blame everything on the media but on the perception of white people whodo seem to have ideas that are not quite rooted into reality.

    This last paragraph is not aimed at you Brady.
    As for #metoo I do hope a lot of scumbags are brought to justice and everytime I hear one of those "famous people" doing something that is actually quite unappropriated and if they tried that with my daughters I would find no sympathy at all for their future, preferable in jail (finding out how it is like to be somebody's b......). It has nothing to do with PC in overtime it has to do that now seems to be the time for men to be held responsible for their behaviour. Which is fine by me. I hope it will flush a lot of shitheads out, but then again the president of the US is the example of a shithead in charge with his attitude against women. So I expect less will happen.

    Black on black crime far outweighs cop on black crime. As Brady says, the media should be somewhat accountable for their shit stirring. It’s a socio-economic problem, not a racist one. The former doesn’t sell papers. The latter does.

    I disagree with anything you say you have a President who openly supports racists by calling some of them good, the far right have never been so much in the driver seat before in a long time. The US still suffers a lot of racism and while violence among the coloured folks is a fact people use that as a reasoning to say that the media is to blame for the picture of racism. They are starting to paint a picture that might not be appreciated by the Whites but more and more it becomes clear that the US society is a very divided one in which sexism (VIAGRA paid by health care and birth control not), racism are still in full bloom.
    Blacklivesmatter & #METOO should be seen as what they are a signal that there is a lot to change in the years to come. Only if the WHITE elite does want to do so, but so far they want to build a wall against crime. And the truth is that more lives die annually by guns an industry due to economic pressure being kept alive and so on.

    We see every day that the great democracy in the US gets eaten away by its WHITE elite and it will perhaps far sooner than we think change into something far scarier. I am not so hopeful about the US these days. Lives matter but money and power seems to dictate this once great nation.

    I stopped reading your invective after the first line. My president? I’m British. Calm yourself down.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'm not American but I wonder if American's
    Understand how crazy the rest of the world see their gun laws or rather lack of gun laws.
    Bloody hell you have to pass a test to drive a car but it seems in the US anyone can walk in off the street and buy not just one gun but can start a collection.
  • Posts: 7,645
    RC7 wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    SaintMark wrote: »
    Dear Brady we see a lot of unnecessary police violence perpetrated on the NON-white society and such excesses that you can easily wonder if there is such a thing as an exaggeration when it comes to racism.

    That combined with killing by cops in such a way that all of them would be criminally prosecuted in most civilized countries in the western world. Not so in the US were the gun culture has seeped into police violence which happens too often.

    I do not say that ll policemen and police forces are inherent criminal. But everytime one is investigated one of the results is excess violence and racism.

    Do not blame everything on the media but on the perception of white people whodo seem to have ideas that are not quite rooted into reality.

    This last paragraph is not aimed at you Brady.
    As for #metoo I do hope a lot of scumbags are brought to justice and everytime I hear one of those "famous people" doing something that is actually quite unappropriated and if they tried that with my daughters I would find no sympathy at all for their future, preferable in jail (finding out how it is like to be somebody's b......). It has nothing to do with PC in overtime it has to do that now seems to be the time for men to be held responsible for their behaviour. Which is fine by me. I hope it will flush a lot of shitheads out, but then again the president of the US is the example of a shithead in charge with his attitude against women. So I expect less will happen.

    Black on black crime far outweighs cop on black crime. As Brady says, the media should be somewhat accountable for their shit stirring. It’s a socio-economic problem, not a racist one. The former doesn’t sell papers. The latter does.

    I disagree with anything you say you have a President who openly supports racists by calling some of them good, the far right have never been so much in the driver seat before in a long time. The US still suffers a lot of racism and while violence among the coloured folks is a fact people use that as a reasoning to say that the media is to blame for the picture of racism. They are starting to paint a picture that might not be appreciated by the Whites but more and more it becomes clear that the US society is a very divided one in which sexism (VIAGRA paid by health care and birth control not), racism are still in full bloom.
    Blacklivesmatter & #METOO should be seen as what they are a signal that there is a lot to change in the years to come. Only if the WHITE elite does want to do so, but so far they want to build a wall against crime. And the truth is that more lives die annually by guns an industry due to economic pressure being kept alive and so on.

    We see every day that the great democracy in the US gets eaten away by its WHITE elite and it will perhaps far sooner than we think change into something far scarier. I am not so hopeful about the US these days. Lives matter but money and power seems to dictate this once great nation.

    I stopped reading your invective after the first line. My president? I’m British. Calm yourself down.

    Always a nice but useless addition to the discussion. If you are British then you have indeed enough troubles of your own without worrying about the US. ;)
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