I've never noticed that before...

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Comments

  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 6,004
    Birdleson wrote: »
    It is, for me, by far the best scene in the film, and yet I still feel it could have been stronger.

    Agreed. Christensen is the best at what he does. Intelligent and menacing (and in QoS, funny).
  • mattjoesmattjoes matjoevakia
    Posts: 6,795
    bondjames wrote: »
    I was just winding you and others up.

    I like seeing you kid around a bit.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,351
    When Strutter is filling Bond in on Mr. Big, they pass a building that is graffitied and says "Bee Dick"
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,351
    Agreed @Birdleson , one of those secondary characters that the early Bonds were known for that really added further depth to the film.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,351
    Hah - good catch. I've always noticed both lines, but never put it together that he caused the error in the first place.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Just watched TLD and noticed 2 new things

    1) doesn’t Bond come off a bit rapey in the Ferris wheel scene when he says that he asked the person to stop the wheel so he can have sex with her even though she clearly doesn’t want to

    2) when Bond passes out in Tangier, and Koskov flies him out, his name on his fake passport is Jerry Bondon
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,900
    Just watched TLD and noticed 2 new things

    1) doesn’t Bond come off a bit rapey in the Ferris wheel scene when he says that he asked the person to stop the wheel so he can have sex with her even though she clearly doesn’t want to

    2) when Bond passes out in Tangier, and Koskov flies him out, his name on his fake passport is Jerry Bondon

    It says Jerzy Bondov

    https://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-Living-Daylights/pages/The-Living-Daylights-621.htm

    However the photo on the fake passport for 'Jerzy Bondov' is the same suit Bond wears at the Blaydon safe house.
    https://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-Living-Daylights/pages/The-Living-Daylights-155.htm
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    Benny wrote: »
    Just watched TLD and noticed 2 new things

    1) doesn’t Bond come off a bit rapey in the Ferris wheel scene when he says that he asked the person to stop the wheel so he can have sex with her even though she clearly doesn’t want to

    2) when Bond passes out in Tangier, and Koskov flies him out, his name on his fake passport is Jerry Bondon

    It says Jerzy Bondov

    https://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-Living-Daylights/pages/The-Living-Daylights-621.htm

    However the photo on the fake passport for 'Jerzy Bondov' is the same suit Bond wears at the Blaydon safe house.
    https://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-Living-Daylights/pages/The-Living-Daylights-155.htm

    I don’t have very good eyes
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited December 2017 Posts: 8,160
    Benny wrote: »
    Just watched TLD and noticed 2 new things

    1) doesn’t Bond come off a bit rapey in the Ferris wheel scene when he says that he asked the person to stop the wheel so he can have sex with her even though she clearly doesn’t want to

    2) when Bond passes out in Tangier, and Koskov flies him out, his name on his fake passport is Jerry Bondon

    It says Jerzy Bondov

    https://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-Living-Daylights/pages/The-Living-Daylights-621.htm

    However the photo on the fake passport for 'Jerzy Bondov' is the same suit Bond wears at the Blaydon safe house.
    https://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-Living-Daylights/pages/The-Living-Daylights-155.htm

    I don’t have very good eyes

    That's probably from watching QoS too much. The crazy editing must've messed with your peepers, sorry bro.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I can't see how the Ferris wheel scene looks
    "Rapey" when they don't have sex ? In fact
    Bond just gives her a hug and basically says
    He'll wait until she wants it to happen.
  • Just watched TLD and noticed 2 new things

    1) doesn’t Bond come off a bit rapey in the Ferris wheel scene when he says that he asked the person to stop the wheel so he can have sex with her even though she clearly doesn’t want to

    2) when Bond passes out in Tangier, and Koskov flies him out, his name on his fake passport is Jerry Bondon

    Your comments - "rapey" - "stop the wheel so he can have sex" - if you look back at the movie they were trying to make Bond a more romantic, monogenist character - John Barry even mentioned that he altered the score to take into consideration this tweak of the character. Bond has no intention to have sex or rape.

    But opinions are opinions - and you are entitled to them. However, if that's how you view this scene then I shudder to think what you think of Bond's behaviour in the other films.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I can't see how the Ferris wheel scene looks
    "Rapey" when they don't have sex ? In fact
    Bond just gives her a hug and basically says
    He'll wait until she wants it to happen.
    @Thunderpussy, I've always viewed it as a no sex moment as well, just a quiet moment of bonding for the pair. And Tim's Bond doesn't come off as aggressive or anything like that to me at all. If anything, Kara actually lightens him up once they get to know each other.
    Just watched TLD and noticed 2 new things

    1) doesn’t Bond come off a bit rapey in the Ferris wheel scene when he says that he asked the person to stop the wheel so he can have sex with her even though she clearly doesn’t want to

    2) when Bond passes out in Tangier, and Koskov flies him out, his name on his fake passport is Jerry Bondon

    Your comments - "rapey" - "stop the wheel so he can have sex" - if you look back at the movie they were trying to make Bond a more romantic, monogenist character - John Barry even mentioned that he altered the score to take into consideration this tweak of the character. Bond has no intention to have sex or rape.

    But opinions are opinions - and you are entitled to them. However, if that's how you view this scene then I shudder to think what you think of Bond's behaviour in the other films.

    @Fountainbridge1, one of the interesting things about that scene is how they present Bond, and it's actually one of the more tonally awkward parts of TLD for me. It was obvious that the script was still making Tim play a Bond that he didn't really suit, that being a sex fiend, as we can see in Vienna when the hotel manager comments on Bond having a special room there where he always takes women. This sex crazed type of Bond is more representative of the Bond that was known to the culture pre-87, but I don't think Tim strikes that same tone at all and he does feel more like what you say, a man who takes one woman at a time and doesn't make a game of sex. I've always had an issue with how the character is written and how it clashes with how Tim actually performs in the role, as tonally awkward as the one-liners from Roger's time that Dalton also got saddled with.

    I also share your concerns about how people perceive Bond and his female pursuits in the other films if they view a soft moment between Bond and Kara as carrying an air of rape. I have agreed with Bond being detestable in L&LD with Solitaire in the past, probably the biggest issue I've had with the character in this regard throughout the series (GF is slightly icky), but I most often find Bond to be far more compassionate, consensual and concerned for the women around him than anything else. I've seen people call Bond's sex with Severine in SF rape in recent years, so I naturally worry about how our current day culture has polluted some minds as to what consensual sex actually is. If these obviously consensual sexual exploits are called criminal, are we heading back to Puritan gender roles where men are only allowed to touch women with sticks to show their adoration and can only say, "Hey, you" to avoid offending the woman's sexuality or impose upon her strict insecurities? I hope not.
  • I can't see how the Ferris wheel scene looks
    "Rapey" when they don't have sex ? In fact
    Bond just gives her a hug and basically says
    He'll wait until she wants it to happen.
    @Thunderpussy, I've always viewed it as a no sex moment as well, just a quiet moment of bonding for the pair. And Tim's Bond doesn't come off as aggressive or anything like that to me at all. If anything, Kara actually lightens him up once they get to know each other.
    Just watched TLD and noticed 2 new things

    1) doesn’t Bond come off a bit rapey in the Ferris wheel scene when he says that he asked the person to stop the wheel so he can have sex with her even though she clearly doesn’t want to

    2) when Bond passes out in Tangier, and Koskov flies him out, his name on his fake passport is Jerry Bondon

    Your comments - "rapey" - "stop the wheel so he can have sex" - if you look back at the movie they were trying to make Bond a more romantic, monogenist character - John Barry even mentioned that he altered the score to take into consideration this tweak of the character. Bond has no intention to have sex or rape.

    But opinions are opinions - and you are entitled to them. However, if that's how you view this scene then I shudder to think what you think of Bond's behaviour in the other films.

    @Fountainbridge1, one of the interesting things about that scene is how they present Bond, and it's actually one of the more tonally awkward parts of TLD for me. It was obvious that the script was still making Tim play a Bond that he didn't really suit, that being a sex fiend, as we can see in Vienna when the hotel manager comments on Bond having a special room there where he always takes women. This sex crazed type of Bond is more representative of the Bond that was known to the culture pre-87, but I don't think Tim strikes that same tone at all and he does feel more like what you say, a man who takes one woman at a time and doesn't make a game of sex. I've always had an issue with how the character is written and how it clashes with how Tim actually performs in the role, as tonally awkward as the one-liners from Roger's time that Dalton also got saddled with.

    I also share your concerns about how people perceive Bond and his female pursuits in the other films if they view a soft moment between Bond and Kara as carrying an air of rape. I have agreed with Bond being detestable in L&LD with Solitaire in the past, probably the biggest issue I've had with the character in this regard throughout the series (GF is slightly icky), but I most often find Bond to be far more compassionate, consensual and concerned for the women around him than anything else. I've seen people call Bond's sex with Severine in SF rape in recent years, so I naturally worry about how our current day culture has polluted some minds as to what consensual sex actually is. If these obviously consensual sexual exploits are called criminal, are we heading back to Puritan gender roles where men are only allowed to touch women with sticks to show their adoration and can only say, "Hey, you" to avoid offending the woman's sexuality or impose upon her strict insecurities? I hope not.

    0BradyM0Bondfanatic7

    Spot on.

    I think they were trying to build up the "romance" in the scenes prior to the big wheel - he tells her that her cello playing was "exquisite" the horse drawn carriage ride, buying her clothes that she could not dreamt of affording - but as you say, the film makers decide to keep in the scene with the hotel manager and the special room - which could lead the audience to question Bond's motives and which goes against Dalton's interpretation of the character. Lets be kind and call it an oversight.

    Regarding current culture (and let me be totally clear, rape, sexual attack, non consensual sex, sexual harassment is not defendable, - and I am talking about men and women equally) the boundaries are totally blurred. I would not even think about tapping a female colleague on the shoulder to get her attention now as this could be interpreted as some sort of harassment (funnily enough, I met my wife in the office, kissed her at an office party and started dating her - these were the good old days when you could flirt with the opposite sex).

    We are now in a society where a woman has demanded that Sleeping Beauty be banned at schools because of the non-concensual kiss by the prince.

    Perhaps there won't be a future for Bond in this shiny new politically correct world of ours.

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I think they were trying to build up the "romance" in the scenes prior to the big wheel - he tells her that her cello playing was "exquisite" the horse drawn carriage ride, buying her clothes that she could not dreamt of affording - but as you say, the film makers decide to keep in the scene with the hotel manager and the special room - which could lead the audience to question Bond's motives and which goes against Dalton's interpretation of the character. Lets be kind and call it an oversight.
    @Fountainbridge1, I also forgot to add the PTS into my argument, where Bond is late (!) to report himself at his job because he wants to get his rocks off with a random woman on the yacht he landed on. That behavior of Bond's, taking it anywhere and anytime he can get it, is again very opposed to how Tim plays Bond in 98% of the movie outside of that moment. So the ending of the PTS and the Viennese hotel scene do represent a very stark contrast for me that I'm surprised wasn't corrected in editing or wasn't executed in a more suitable way to begin with. It strikes me as far more sensible for Dalton's Bond to dryly ask the woman in the PTS if she'd take him back to shore, for example, simply because how he'd been built up in the moments before and in other parts of the film was as a man who is very focused on his work and isn't altogether concerned with dalliances and distractions. We're told that Dalton Bond is a sexual explorer, but what we're shown never gives credence to that and so a disconnect forms that is always confounding to me when I watch TLD.

    That disconnect could simply be because Roger was still on the writers' minds and because everyone knew Bond at the time as a sexual man's man they felt compelled to keep that characteristic with Tim's Bond too in order to avoid presenting Bond as too starkly opposed to such recreations to an audiences who knew how he ticked. With a new guy in the role coming off of the longest serving Bond by a long shot at the time, I guess you can't blame EON for not wanting to take risks in some places. That being said, I think the Dalton films could only be improved if Tim's approach to the character was more supported at the time and, in addition to the one-liners being dropped or at least minimized, if the way Bond was written was more suited to Tim's specialties as a result.
    Regarding current culture (and let me be totally clear, rape, sexual attack, non consensual sex, sexual harassment is not defendable, - and I am talking about men and women equally) the boundaries are totally blurred. I would not even think about tapping a female colleague on the shoulder to get her attention now as this could be interpreted as some sort of harassment (funnily enough, I met my wife in the office, kissed her at an office party and started dating her - these were the good old days when you could flirt with the opposite sex).

    We are now in a society where a woman has demanded that Sleeping Beauty be banned at schools because of the non-concensual kiss by the prince.

    Perhaps there won't be a future for Bond in this shiny new politically correct world of ours.
    I totally share those concerns regarding functioning with the opposite sex in the real world. I think Bond will survive and not have to be neutered, as so much of his flaws have been wonderfully attained no matter the culture around the films, but in our reality the reconsideration of what consent means boggles my mind. I've never been a dater, but the way things are now I'm certainly not going to be encouraged to tread that already complicated path. When you read not unsubstantial reports of women lying about a man raping them only to ruin the man's life knowing they have the power of public opinion on their side, that is terrifying. You want to believe every woman that comes forward with any kind of assault or harassment claims (and the same for men too), but thanks to some infamous cases it's hard not to have doubts about all of it. It's so easy to lie and be believed for it, and the world has naturally made me skeptical about everyone and everything anyway, regardless of context.
  • JamesBondKenyaJamesBondKenya Danny Boyle laughs to himself
    Posts: 2,730
    I realize they didn’t have sex
    I just think that it’s super awkward when she’s like “ why has it stopped”
    And he replies that he arranged it
    Then he’s like, this needs to happen and then kisses her

    Its a bit weird
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,029
    @OBrady tbh I think it's part of how Tim plays the landing that makes it strange. He grabs the phone with some agression (presumeably still ad at the deaths of his collegues) but he will report 'make that two' because of the lady beeing impressed. It's a difficult situation to make work and Tim doesn't succeed in my eyes. He should've at least paused and looked at her before uttering that (not too good) line.

    Tim does seem a bit akward at times and he does so on the wheel as well and I think that's what @JamesBondKenya referred to.

  • RemingtonRemington I'll do anything for a woman with a knife.
    Posts: 1,533
    Benny wrote: »
    Just watched TLD and noticed 2 new things

    1) doesn’t Bond come off a bit rapey in the Ferris wheel scene when he says that he asked the person to stop the wheel so he can have sex with her even though she clearly doesn’t want to

    2) when Bond passes out in Tangier, and Koskov flies him out, his name on his fake passport is Jerry Bondon

    It says Jerzy Bondov

    https://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-Living-Daylights/pages/The-Living-Daylights-621.htm

    However the photo on the fake passport for 'Jerzy Bondov' is the same suit Bond wears at the Blaydon safe house.
    https://screenmusings.org/movie/blu-ray/The-Living-Daylights/pages/The-Living-Daylights-155.htm

    I don’t have very good eyes

    That's probably from watching QoS too much. The crazy editing must've messed with your peepers, sorry bro.

    That explains my poor eyesight as well. Lol
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    It can be tough for some people to understand, when talented actors
    Convey complex emotions. Might be better to stick to Googlebox or
    The X factor. :-D
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @OBrady tbh I think it's part of how Tim plays the landing that makes it strange. He grabs the phone with some agression (presumeably still ad at the deaths of his collegues) but he will report 'make that two' because of the lady beeing impressed. It's a difficult situation to make work and Tim doesn't succeed in my eyes. He should've at least paused and looked at her before uttering that (not too good) line.

    Tim does seem a bit akward at times and he does so on the wheel as well and I think that's what @JamesBondKenya referred to.

    @CommanderRoss, I actually love how Tim plays the "Bond, James Bond" line, as the quick way he says it undercuts it and makes Bond appear that he isn't self-aware that an audience wants him to read the line more dramatically, making the delivery more natural and grounded. My issue is simply that he takes the opportunity to bed a random woman when who he is throughout the rest of the film is just not that kind of man at all. It was a very Roger Bond moment, not a Tim Bond moment, and that's a big issue with both Dalton's movies where the scripts weren't suited enough to him as they could've been.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I thought Tim's first go at the iconic line was decent. Sean, Roger and Daniel all nailed it the first time; the best for each of them. And George's was surely memorable, though I still can't decide if I like it or not. Pierce seemed nervous.

    @Birdleson, the first time the line comes out of each actor seems to hold up as their strongest, I agree. Maybe because the first time you see the new guy say it makes it stand out from subsequent ones if it's said competently, simply because it's fresh then? Sean's especially created one of the most iconic film scenes ever, and I've never heard the line delivered with that much natural power before. Truly perfect.

    I think Tim's suited his Bond's personality and while I don't sense nervousness with Pierce's it does come off as if he's reading it from a cue-card. George's I believe was really hurt by terrible ADR that just makes it sound hokey.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,029
    @OBrady it wasn't the 'Bond, James Bond' I was referring to, that's fine. What I don't like is that he seems angry and eager to get to HQ, but then without a pause finds the time to shag the lady without even assessing her in the first place. It clearly isn't his forte. And it isnt Bond from the books, for whom work always goes before pleasure.

    I agree on the nervousness of Brosnan, he just didn't seem cool. Same goes for the licence plate story. But I must admit I'm not too keen on his dialogues in many of his era films. They seem too explicative, instead of natural conversation. But that may've been the times as well. Take 'The Thomas Crown Affair', that's far better dialogue if you ask me.
  • MooseWithFleasMooseWithFleas Philadelphia
    Posts: 3,351
    The bottles Nick Nack throws at Bond at the end of GG are empty as Bond smashes them. That's disappointing!
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    The bottles Nick Nack throws at Bond at the end of GG are empty as Bond smashes them. That's disappointing!

    Never noted that either.
    Me neither! Good catch.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    @OBrady it wasn't the 'Bond, James Bond' I was referring to, that's fine. What I don't like is that he seems angry and eager to get to HQ, but then without a pause finds the time to shag the lady without even assessing her in the first place. It clearly isn't his forte. And it isnt Bond from the books, for whom work always goes before pleasure.

    I agree on the nervousness of Brosnan, he just didn't seem cool. Same goes for the licence plate story. But I must admit I'm not too keen on his dialogues in many of his era films. They seem too explicative, instead of natural conversation. But that may've been the times as well. Take 'The Thomas Crown Affair', that's far better dialogue if you ask me.

    @CommanderRoss, for me the Brosnan era dialogues were usually one of three things, or many of those things at once. Those being, melodramatic, unnatural or simply cringey. It all just tries so hard, and falls on its face.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 8,029
    @OBrady it wasn't the 'Bond, James Bond' I was referring to, that's fine. What I don't like is that he seems angry and eager to get to HQ, but then without a pause finds the time to shag the lady without even assessing her in the first place. It clearly isn't his forte. And it isnt Bond from the books, for whom work always goes before pleasure.

    I agree on the nervousness of Brosnan, he just didn't seem cool. Same goes for the licence plate story. But I must admit I'm not too keen on his dialogues in many of his era films. They seem too explicative, instead of natural conversation. But that may've been the times as well. Take 'The Thomas Crown Affair', that's far better dialogue if you ask me.

    @CommanderRoss, for me the Brosnan era dialogues were usually one of three things, or many of those things at once. Those being, melodramatic, unnatural or simply cringey. It all just tries so hard, and falls on its face.

    I think you've got the gist of it ;-) The Craig era has often the same (esp. melodramatic) problem. I blame that on P&W. For me it's definately time for them to go.
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Sean Connery does a Roger Moore nod in Thunderball.
  • On yesterday's viewing of TND I noticed how many coughs there are during Carver's speech. A tremendous amount.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Sean Connery does a Roger Moore nod in Thunderball.
    Wouldn't that mean that Roger Moore does Sean Connery nods in his films, then? ;)
  • ForYourEyesOnlyForYourEyesOnly In the untained cradle of the heavens
    Posts: 1,984
    Wouldn't that mean that Roger Moore does Sean Connery nods in his films, then? ;)

    Nah. It's a shame, but Connery never trademarked it. Moore took both that and the eyebrow. :)

  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    Wouldn't that mean that Roger Moore does Sean Connery nods in his films, then? ;)
    Nah. It's a shame, but Connery never trademarked it. Moore took both that and the eyebrow. :)
    @ForYourEyesOnly, well, at least Sean got nostril flaring to his name. Between that, Roger's brows, Tim's glares and face clenching, Brosnan's pain faces and Dan's pouting, we've got a nutty bunch of James Bonds here. What expressions they make!
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