In time, will SP be more or less appreciated?

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  • BondAficionadoBondAficionado Former IMDBer
    Posts: 1,828
    I personally love it. There's just some crazy moments that really get me going, like the beach fight where Bond in a wide shot punches a man into the sea's surf as Barry's score blasts like a Bondian siren. The Che Che fight is also shot very interestingly, like a spectator bout. All the other fights in between, like a Draco's, outside the Piz Gloria lift and that great echoey brush up in the bell cabin are just really visceral to me.

    Okay, that's cool. It seems like we're using identical examples of the action scenes and yet, our views couldn't be further apart. You call it avant-garde, whereas I call it sloppy. I guess I just can't shake the feeling that Glen must of had time constraints and rushed with the editing or something else was going wrong behind the scenes.

    Anyway, let's not derail this SP thread any further ;) .
  • RC7RC7
    edited April 2017 Posts: 10,512
    I personally love it. There's just some crazy moments that really get me going, like the beach fight where Bond in a wide shot punches a man into the sea's surf as Barry's score blasts like a Bondian siren. The Che Che fight is also shot very interestingly, like a spectator bout. All the other fights in between, like a Draco's, outside the Piz Gloria lift and that great echoey brush up in the bell cabin are just really visceral to me.

    Okay, that's cool. It seems like we're using identical examples of the action scenes and yet, our views couldn't be further apart. You call it avant-garde, whereas I call it sloppy. I guess I just can't shake the feeling that Glen must of had time constraints and rushed with the editing or something else was going wrong behind the scenes.

    Anyway, let's not derail this SP thread any further ;) .

    The editing is very deliberate. To call it 'sloppy' infers that it wasn't considered, which is incorrect imo.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    I personally love it. There's just some crazy moments that really get me going, like the beach fight where Bond in a wide shot punches a man into the sea's surf as Barry's score blasts like a Bondian siren. The Che Che fight is also shot very interestingly, like a spectator bout. All the other fights in between, like a Draco's, outside the Piz Gloria lift and that great echoey brush up in the bell cabin are just really visceral to me.

    Okay, that's cool. It seems like we're using identical examples of the action scenes and yet, our views couldn't be further apart. You call it avant-garde, whereas I call it sloppy. I guess I just can't shake the feeling that Glen must of had time constraints and rushed with the editing or something else was going wrong behind the scenes.

    Anyway, let's not derail this SP thread any further ;) .

    Well, Glen was clearly working from the school of Hunt, whose style was a purposeful attempt to rattle the viewer and make them "feel" it. While the speeding of film and choppiness in the early Bonds upsets some, I honestly don't have an issue with it. Some of the jump cuts can be weird, but how Hunt and Glen were able to go beyond just frame editing with raw images to actually inject altered sound into the movies during the action was something I have never seen done in that way.

    Hunt's genius at directing was visible from the start, particularly in the Grant fight in FRWL and the car chase and laser table of GF, where he took all these random shots of the sets and actors in motion (or stillness) and told a story with pictures that just takes you there. Glen very much recreates that visceral feeling in OHMSS for me where the action is its own visual story, and I actually think he avoids some of the jumpiness that Hunt would use in the early Bond films. As a result OHMSS feels like it has its own identity that is partly rugged, using some notes of Hunt's style while still being its own thing. There's moments where the camerawork and editing puts you with Bond in the fight as he's disoriented or on the attack, and that adds a lot to what we see and feel.

    At least to me it does.
  • edited April 2017 Posts: 4,622
    I do like Mendes homage touch in Spectre. It's not overbearing and you really do need to be a Bond aficianado to pick up on most of it.
    LALD, YOLT, FRWL and OHMSS are all deftly homaged in this film.
    There are other nods but these four films are very clearly referenced.
    The GF DB5 nods in both SF and SP aren't terrible subtle but I don't care.
    This is a Mendes personal indulgence. He's having some fun. I can roll with it. He's not asking us to take it too seriously.

    A couple of things I noticed again on recent viewing.
    Speaking of Mendes and his DB5 obsession (which of course was actually introduced for the Craig-era by Campbell in CR) there is a very obvious nod-wink to the pages-and-pages of fan discussion on the car having the wrong steering wheel in SF.
    In SP, Q tells Bond there wasn't much left of the DB5 after getting blown up at Skyfall, other than a "steering wheel". Har har har.

    Another little nugget I picked up is when Blofeld remarks to Bond about all of Bond's dead girlfriends, he makes it clear that this was his, Blofeld's, doing.
    In the Craig era, Bond had lost Vesper, Solange, Fields, Severine and M.
    We fans had pointed out the total seemed a little high, even allowing that Bond has lost plenty of girls in the past, but not with quite the same concentration, in so short a space.

    So I think Eon maybe retconned this development, by blaming it on Blofeld, as Blofeld does tell Bond that he had Bond's women killed as payback for Bond's meddling in his affairs.

    Spectre will hold up well over time. Personally I find all the Bond films do. I find they grow on me. I just watched a SF/SP double bill. Long sit, but I loved it. These two films in a back-to-back viewing create a full contemporary Bond immersion and really cement Craig as an A-List Bond.
    Actually I consider all the Bond actors A-List now with the original actor an A+.
    I am well used to, and comfortable with what each successive actor has brought to the role.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    timmer wrote: »
    Another little nugget I picked up is when Blofeld remarks to Bond about all of Bond's dead girlfriends, he makes it clear that this was his, Blofeld's, doing.
    In the Craig era, Bond had lost Vesper, Solange, Fields, Severine and M.
    We fans had pointed out the total seemed a little high, even allowing that Bond has lost plenty of girls in the past, but not with quite the same concentration, in so short a space.

    So I think Eon maybe retconned this development, by blaming it on Blofeld, as Blofeld does tell Bond that he had Bond's women killed as payback for Bond's meddling in his affairs.

    I've always felt that that statement of Blofeld ("author of all your pain") was a purposeful characterization of his arrogance, and less a ret-con attempt. Blofeld is so full of himself and on his high chair, he uses a moment of manipulation to make Bond think that all the personal killings other men perpetrated while working under him (Quantum's killing of Solange, White's deal with Vesper, Greene's killing of Fields, Silva's murder of Severine, M's death) were really just his kills/orders. As with all the Blofelds, he's really not that powerful or mighty, and uses the accomplishments of others to inflate his own ego or to lie to his enemies in order to offset them. This Blofeld in particular is a mad, delusional man, and the idea that he robbed his ex-agents of their glory to take those dastardly acts as his own very much fits.
  • edited April 2017 Posts: 4,622
    Blofeld does specifically mention killing Bonds women, including Vesper and M by name, as payback for meddling in his affairs, so I'm speculating Eon maybe used this after the fact, to address uptick and reaction, to dead women in Craig era.
    Blofeld had the power to order execution of all five, even if Silva was squeamish about killing M.
    As we learn in SP Ernst was everywhere, knew everything​. He was even in our beds, and probably with no socks. :-O


  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    timmer wrote: »
    Blofeld does specifically mention killing Bonds women, including Vesper and M by name, as payback for meddling in his affairs, so I'm speculating Eon maybe used this after the fact, to address uptick and reaction, to dead women in Craig era.
    Blofeld had the power to order execution of all five, even if Silva was squeamish about killing M.
    As we learn in SP Ernst was everywhere, knew everything​. He was even in our beds, and probably with no socks. :-O

    I think the very clear intention of the scene is to show Blofeld deluding his company into the power of his own abilities, of which he really has none, which is the whole arc of the character in every Bond film. White negotiated with Vesper, and in guilt, Vesper was the one that wrote her own certificate. Greene was pissed with Bond and Fields meddling in his affairs, so he had his boys drown her in what Bond thought he coveted. Silva killed Severine because he's mad and she was expendable for turning on him, and his ultimate goal was to wipe M off of the earth, so nobody would order him to do that; he was already planning it for decades! These men all did these things, except for Vesper who took her own life (how would Blofeld be able to take credit for that?). They acted quite clearly from their own impulses, not because a man was in their ear just before the act saying, "Bond is my archenemy, kill [such and such] for me so it tortures him!"

    As the leader of SPECTRE, Blofeld was technically the superior of these men, and that's why he takes all the credit for what other people have done underneath him. Le Chiffre's actions were his, Greene's actions were his, Silva's actions were his, because he wills them to be and his power complex makes him believe his own delusion. He can't stand not being in control and being the alpha and the omega, and he needs to do anything to prove that to himself and others. In reality, White, Le Chiffre, Greene and Silva have caused more pain to Bond than he ever would be able to, and he can't stand that. The only reaction he then has is to discredit all the men who've faced Bond and say, "Their actions were really MINE, mwah hahahaha!"

    But in reality, he's just a paper tiger.
  • Posts: 137
    If there are comparisons to be drawn between the movie world and the real world, then it would have to be said that the head of a criminal organization is hardly a paper tiger. The drug Cartels of Latin America might be a good example. The heads of those enterprises are known to be brutal men and the captains and lieutenants that serve under them fear and respect them for that brutality. Blofeld as imagined in the world of Bond, would have to have been both brutal and evil in the minds of the men who did his bidding (White, Le Chiffre, Green, and Silva) in order for them to work for him, otherwise they would simply attempt to take over the organization for themselves, since they see themselves as equally corrupt and evil.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    timmer wrote: »
    Another little nugget I picked up is when Blofeld remarks to Bond about all of Bond's dead girlfriends, he makes it clear that this was his, Blofeld's, doing.
    In the Craig era, Bond had lost Vesper, Solange, Fields, Severine and M.
    We fans had pointed out the total seemed a little high, even allowing that Bond has lost plenty of girls in the past, but not with quite the same concentration, in so short a space.

    So I think Eon maybe retconned this development, by blaming it on Blofeld, as Blofeld does tell Bond that he had Bond's women killed as payback for Bond's meddling in his affairs.
    That is exactly my feeling too @timmer. As I've mentioned on another thread, I believe that EON decided to make Blofeld responsible for all these women as a substitute for Tracy. I don't see them remaking OHMSS (there is no evidence that they are in the direct remake game). Therefore, in order to increase the importance and significance of Blofeld in the minds of viewers (general public more than aficionados perhaps), they have made this iteration responsible for all these other deaths (including Mathis) in lieu. It's a sort of reimagined Blofeld for this generation. The icing on the cake to solidify his significance was of course the unfortunate 'brothergate'.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    If there are comparisons to be drawn between the movie world and the real world, then it would have to be said that the head of a criminal organization is hardly a paper tiger. The drug Cartels of Latin America might be a good example. The heads of those enterprises are known to be brutal men and the captains and lieutenants that serve under them fear and respect them for that brutality. Blofeld as imagined in the world of Bond, would have to have been both brutal and evil in the minds of the men who did his bidding (White, Le Chiffre, Green, and Silva) in order for them to work for him, otherwise they would simply attempt to take over the organization for themselves, since they see themselves as equally corrupt and evil.

    Hardly. Being a powerful leader and robbing credibility from underlings don't have to be mutually exclusive things. Blofeld is a terrifying person and clearly uses surgical mind control to get his team to do his bidding, but there's also an aspect of failure to him. He sees that his underlings have done more harm to Bond than he ever could, and he uses his figurehead position to take credit for everything that's happened to him, even though he likely gave no orders and obviously has never physically done anything to hurt Bond. He's a coward huddled at the top of the heap, but the myth of fear he has created for himself inside SPECTRE has made people think twice.

    It's not a matter of Blofeld being weak and that drivess people to want to take control from him. White was his friend, Le Chiffre was a side associate that just wanted to play with big money, Greene wanted connections that would give him land and resource control and Silva was funded for a personal vendetta. None of them wanted Blofeld's job, they wanted what he offered them. SPECTRE was/is just the biggest game in town, a hub for the power hungry who want to be the big dog in the room while having their abilities appreciated and heavily rewarded in heaps of cash.

    This Blofeld was written with a lot of nuance and subtext (and delusion), and I think many are making the mistake at taking him at his word without questioning the truth behind what he's saying. Much like the deep Bond of QoS kept telling everyone Vesper was meaningless to him, even though we knew he was lying to feign power and strength. The same thing exists here with Blofeld taking credit for things that happened on accident or through the actions of other men that he then turned around and claimed as his own actions. He's a lot like modern terrorist cells that publicly take credit for every suicide bombing that happens in the world. They weren't really behind it, but people believe their lie and because of this, the fear and power they represent increases. Blofeld is playing this same mind game with Bond.

    If people think Blofeld sat around his desk with a pad and paper listing all the people Bond loved or liked so he could kill them all later, they're nuts.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I really wish I could see it this way you are both seeing it but to me it was one of the most spectacular fumblings of the ball in the series.

    You can go on about all the business of it Blofeld not being taken at his word but that doesn't explain away step brother gate and linking the films together with scanning a ring accompanied by the most convenient software program to illustrate it to the audience in history.

    The biggest issue for me is that P&W could have dealt with this so much better with existing material they already had, it's all in the previous 3 films to do it, I've done it and one of these days when it's finished it I'll post it.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Given the circumstances
    Posts: 7,331
    When you really sit back and think about it, besides OHMSS, every Bond film from 1962-2002 ends with Bond and Bond girl going of together, usually in a boat, train or some other method of transport. That was going to be the ending that we expected from CR as well, but it was cut off, and the Craig Bond was denied his happy ending. The Craig era has really been about his pursuit of the happy ending he was denied, and that means uncovering the organisation that denied it him. You'll notice that none of CR, QoS and SF end with Bond and Bond girl together, but he is one step closer. Then, with SPECTRE, he finally gets the ending he always wanted, and it comes through the pursuit that he was forced into. He never would have met Madeline if it weren't for SPECTRE, and he never would have known about SPECTRE had he and Vesper gotten their happy ending. That's why when he and Maddy drove off together, there was a extra symbolism to it. Each step of the way has brought another level of closure for the Craig Bond, and the final step to making peace with Vespers memory was to find another use for the empty space she had left in his heart.
  • suavejmfsuavejmf Harrogate, North Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 5,131
    Shardlake wrote: »
    Shardlake wrote: »
    That scene wipes the floor with anything in LTK.

    Dalton is no Connery.
    Give me a break. LTK wipes the floor with TB. And no, Dalton is no Connery. They both brought different interpretations to the role - and both equally brilliant.

    Like you said each to his own but TB does not look like a TV film or feel like it's aping other films and of course it has that Barry score.

    I'm sorry I used to love LTK when I was 17 when it was originally released but for me it's stock has dropped.

    Ironic considering that for Bond fans it's reputation has risen, when it came out it had little love and that was when I loved it but now it feels a tonally all over the place and still has cosy hangovers from the Moore era while trying to be gritty and Fleming like.

    TB feels in a completely different class.

    I like LTK. But TB is in a different class.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I really wish I could see it this way you are both seeing it but to me it was one of the most spectacular fumblings of the ball in the series.

    You can go on about all the business of it Blofeld not being taken at his word but that doesn't explain away step brother gate and linking the films together with scanning a ring accompanied by the most convenient software program to illustrate it to the audience in history.

    The biggest issue for me is that P&W could have dealt with this so much better with existing material they already had, it's all in the previous 3 films to do it, I've done it and one of these days when it's finished it I'll post it.

    The ring thing was fine to me. The rings are made of a special rock, all the bodies of the SPECTRE agents who wore the ring had traces of it on them. Fair enough. With all the Quantum/SPECTRE members dead, I can't think of how the reveal could've been done better, since you would only be able to have Bond find files or look at them in a database. Or dig up their corpses in plots all over the world to look for rings, but that would've been a boring montage. ;)
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 4,585
    I thought the ring thing was rather cool. Was the trace from the Spectre agents who had shaken his hand?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    echo wrote: »
    I thought the ring thing was rather cool. Was the trace from the Spectre agents who had shaken his hand?

    @echo, the SPECTRE rings all the members wear are made of iridium, a rare element found most easily in meteorites, and traces of that element were found on Le Chiffre, Greene and Silva in autopsy, essentially linking them as agents of the organization. The implication is that Blofeld used parts of the meteorite that crashed into his Moroccan base (near the area where he served in a battalion of the French Foreign Legion called 'Les Spectre de St. Pierre' with Mr. White) and created the rings for his members with the element contained in the rock. SPECTRE was then birthed through the symbol of the rings by the fantastic power (the meteorite crash) that gave Blofeld a metaphorical sense of power in his own life. Like the meteorite, he had been waiting in orbit, building up power before his descent and ultimate impact.

    Some of this is explained here:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/3sjlye/empire_magazine_spectre_spoiler_special_podcast/cwxre0p/
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187

    echo wrote: »
    I thought the ring thing was rather cool. Was the trace from the Spectre agents who had shaken his hand?

    @echo, the SPECTRE rings all the members wear are made of iridium, a rare element found most easily in meteorites, and traces of that element were found on Le Chiffre, Greene and Silva in autopsy, essentially linking them as agents of the organization. The implication is that Blofeld used parts of the meteorite that crashed into his Moroccan base (near the area where he served in a battalion of the French Foreign Legion called 'Les Spectre de St. Pierre' with Mr. White) and created the rings for his members with the element contained in the rock. SPECTRE was then birthed through the symbol of the rings by the fantastic power (the meteorite crash) that gave Blofeld a metaphorical sense of power in his own life. Like the meteorite, he had been waiting in orbit, building up power before his descent and ultimate impact.

    Some of this is explained here:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/3sjlye/empire_magazine_spectre_spoiler_special_podcast/cwxre0p/
    Christ Eon really over though this. Weren't the rings just metal or titanium? Where did you read it came from a rock?
  • Posts: 137
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, My intention was to let the discussion drop, but as you are familiar with the podcast I’ll just add this to my earlier comment. The term “Paper Tiger” would be incongruent and mutually exclusive with any former member of Le Legion Etrangere. In the United States, or the United Kingdom it would be the equivalent of calling a member of a Special Operations Unit a pussy. James Bond is of course only a fictional action film, but if we are dealing here with a historical legend for the character of Blofeld, then his character doesn’t just exist in the shadow of his “more capable” foot soldiers. He may prefer to have Mr. White do his killing (ie,. shooting Le Chiffre for failing) but only because his character has elevated himself to a position of prestige and no longer wants to be involved in the day to day blood and gore of his operations. His is a more refined approach (syringe through the iris of the eyes into the brain, with a side dish of torture just for fun, less messy than the Hinx approach) which he saves for a personal vendetta. Criminal organizations that deal in violence are generally run by people capable of being violent themselves. A much more likely place to find “Paper Tigers” is in strictly white collar crime (corporate theft, taking money from widows and orphans, stealing lollipops from babies, etc.), everybody talks the talk, but only megalomaniacs go the extra mile.
  • echo wrote: »
    I thought the ring thing was rather cool. Was the trace from the Spectre agents who had shaken his hand?

    @echo, the SPECTRE rings all the members wear are made of iridium, a rare element found most easily in meteorites, and traces of that element were found on Le Chiffre, Greene and Silva in autopsy, essentially linking them as agents of the organization. The implication is that Blofeld used parts of the meteorite that crashed into his Moroccan base (near the area where he served in a battalion of the French Foreign Legion called 'Les Spectre de St. Pierre' with Mr. White) and created the rings for his members with the element contained in the rock. SPECTRE was then birthed through the symbol of the rings by the fantastic power (the meteorite crash) that gave Blofeld a metaphorical sense of power in his own life. Like the meteorite, he had been waiting in orbit, building up power before his descent and ultimate impact.

    Some of this is explained here:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/3sjlye/empire_magazine_spectre_spoiler_special_podcast/cwxre0p/
    Also , in the podcast they explain the ring Bond finds was past around between members of SPECTRE including Chiffre, Greene, Silva, White, Slate, et al. there is a mutual DNA located in the grooves of the ring, as its used as a cock ring for the members of SPECTRE. Its an amazing backstory.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Snake on a plane of being
    Posts: 42,437
    When you really sit back and think about it, besides OHMSS, every Bond film from 1962-2002 ends with Bond and Bond girl going of together, usually in a boat, train or some other method of transport. That was going to be the ending that we expected from CR as well, but it was cut off, and the Craig Bond was denied his happy ending. The Craig era has really been about his pursuit of the happy ending he was denied, and that means uncovering the organisation that denied it him. You'll notice that none of CR, QoS and SF end with Bond and Bond girl together, but he is one step closer. Then, with SPECTRE, he finally gets the ending he always wanted, and it comes through the pursuit that he was forced into. He never would have met Madeline if it weren't for SPECTRE, and he never would have known about SPECTRE had he and Vesper gotten their happy ending. That's why when he and Maddy drove off together, there was a extra symbolism to it. Each step of the way has brought another level of closure for the Craig Bond, and the final step to making peace with Vespers memory was to find another use for the empty space she had left in his heart.

    I doubt that Bond , within the films, think of it as "the ending".
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    edited April 2017 Posts: 28,417
    @0BradyM0Bondfanatic7, My intention was to let the discussion drop, but as you are familiar with the podcast I’ll just add this to my earlier comment. The term “Paper Tiger” would be incongruent and mutually exclusive with any former member of Le Legion Etrangere. In the United States, or the United Kingdom it would be the equivalent of calling a member of a Special Operations Unit a pussy. James Bond is of course only a fictional action film, but if we are dealing here with a historical legend for the character of Blofeld, then his character doesn’t just exist in the shadow of his “more capable” foot soldiers. He may prefer to have Mr. White do his killing (ie,. shooting Le Chiffre for failing) but only because his character has elevated himself to a position of prestige and no longer wants to be involved in the day to day blood and gore of his operations. His is a more refined approach (syringe through the iris of the eyes into the brain, with a side dish of torture just for fun, less messy than the Hinx approach) which he saves for a personal vendetta. Criminal organizations that deal in violence are generally run by people capable of being violent themselves. A much more likely place to find “Paper Tigers” is in strictly white collar crime (corporate theft, taking money from widows and orphans, stealing lollipops from babies, etc.), everybody talks the talk, but only megalomaniacs go the extra mile.

    It makes little sense to lean on real world examples for a series like this that is removed from it, despite the Craig films being more grounded.

    My point about Blofeld being a paper tiger is connected to who he is in the face of Bond. He tries to get Bond all the time, and always fails, showing that he lacks the power and ability to finally silence him, despite the fact that he doesn't shut up about how powerful he is. His running of SPECTRE doesn't come into it at that point, as we see in the film that he has an ability to cast fear and influence, in the Rome meeting and in his organized bombing of Africa, and how he has drone-like agents at his command. Around regular people, sure, he can find some power to have, but when Bond comes into the picture, it's all gone. This has been Blofeld's story from the very beginning.
    echo wrote: »
    I thought the ring thing was rather cool. Was the trace from the Spectre agents who had shaken his hand?

    @echo, the SPECTRE rings all the members wear are made of iridium, a rare element found most easily in meteorites, and traces of that element were found on Le Chiffre, Greene and Silva in autopsy, essentially linking them as agents of the organization. The implication is that Blofeld used parts of the meteorite that crashed into his Moroccan base (near the area where he served in a battalion of the French Foreign Legion called 'Les Spectre de St. Pierre' with Mr. White) and created the rings for his members with the element contained in the rock. SPECTRE was then birthed through the symbol of the rings by the fantastic power (the meteorite crash) that gave Blofeld a metaphorical sense of power in his own life. Like the meteorite, he had been waiting in orbit, building up power before his descent and ultimate impact.

    Some of this is explained here:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/3sjlye/empire_magazine_spectre_spoiler_special_podcast/cwxre0p/
    Christ Eon really over though this. Weren't the rings just metal or titanium? Where did you read it came from a rock?

    @QuantumOrganization, it's all in the link and in the podcast with Mendes. The rings were made of meteorite rock containing iridium, and the trace of that element was found on all the past enemies Bond has faced.
    echo wrote: »
    I thought the ring thing was rather cool. Was the trace from the Spectre agents who had shaken his hand?

    @echo, the SPECTRE rings all the members wear are made of iridium, a rare element found most easily in meteorites, and traces of that element were found on Le Chiffre, Greene and Silva in autopsy, essentially linking them as agents of the organization. The implication is that Blofeld used parts of the meteorite that crashed into his Moroccan base (near the area where he served in a battalion of the French Foreign Legion called 'Les Spectre de St. Pierre' with Mr. White) and created the rings for his members with the element contained in the rock. SPECTRE was then birthed through the symbol of the rings by the fantastic power (the meteorite crash) that gave Blofeld a metaphorical sense of power in his own life. Like the meteorite, he had been waiting in orbit, building up power before his descent and ultimate impact.

    Some of this is explained here:

    https://www.reddit.com/r/JamesBond/comments/3sjlye/empire_magazine_spectre_spoiler_special_podcast/cwxre0p/
    Also , in the podcast they explain the ring Bond finds was past around between members of SPECTRE including Chiffre, Greene, Silva, White, Slate, et al. there is a mutual DNA located in the grooves of the ring, as its used as a cock ring for the members of SPECTRE. Its an amazing backstory.

    That I have a harder time believing. I much prefer the idea that Le Chiffre, Greene and Silva all had rings they wore at one time or another, or shook the hands of men with the rings, as opposed to them passing around one. It does make you wonder when any of them got sworn into SPECTRE in the first place. I guess the moment you are a Quantum member you are also a SPECTRE member.
  • TripAcesTripAces Universal Exports
    Posts: 4,364
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Lets just say i wouldnt like to put Connery,Lazenby and Craig into a room to fight to the death...might be a bloodfest...as Bond's i mean.

    After witnessing what DC's Bond does to Slate, Connery and Lazenby wouldn't make it out of the room.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    edited April 2017 Posts: 28,417
    TripAces wrote: »
    barryt007 wrote: »
    Lets just say i wouldnt like to put Connery,Lazenby and Craig into a room to fight to the death...might be a bloodfest...as Bond's i mean.

    After witnessing what DC's Bond does to Slate, Connery and Lazenby wouldn't make it out of the room.

    Correction, @TripAces: If there were no surgical scissors in the room, Sean and George could still survive. For a while. ;)
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Craig Bond reminds me of Tyson in the fights. A blunt instrument & a slugger. I can see another of the Bonds doing the equivalent of a rope-a-dope on him.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    Craig's Bond can slug, but he's also got a visible mix of more specialty military styles that are common to servicemen and women. He's probably the most diverse fighter, and certainly the most durable, which helps.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2017 Posts: 23,883
    The beauty of the Bond series is we have a long history of films and actors with which to compare. On that spectrum, I see Craig as the most intimidating, but definitely one who can be beaten with some smarts. Ironically, he reminds me of the villains that Bond gets the better of in the earlier entries (despite being notably weaker physically than them).
  • QuantumOrganizationQuantumOrganization We have people everywhere
    Posts: 1,187
    Amazing seeing everyone turn on Craig after SPECTRE.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 I've missed you all.
    Posts: 28,417
    Amazing seeing everyone turn on Craig after SPECTRE.

    Speaking as a Craig purist who has witnessed this change, I don't think it's that dramatic a reaction. Most of the people I know who want Craig gone simply feel he's done what he sought to do and has told a specific story. In addition, they see the SP ending as a good enough way to bring another Bond actor in while Dan's Bond seems to be going off with the girl.

    I don't feel this way, but I can understand the position in some ways. I don't see, however, many saying, "Craig's shit, get him out!" It's far more common to see people comment that he's had his time and the holster needs to be worn around another man's shoulders. I think Dan himself would agree, and with a final film he'll pass the title to another at around the period that he feels it's time to move on. All signs are pointing to Bond 25 being that swan song.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited April 2017 Posts: 23,883
    I can deal with him back for one more, but they'd better keep it real and not try to take it down the more laid back classic style. From what I've seen, it won't work with Craig (at least for me). He's just not credible in my eyes to play suave & cool (just like Brosnan was not credible playing deep). It will only work if the supporting cast can inject the necessary glamour, style and charisma, as they so readily did in CR & SF. So casting will be critical and that's why if it is Craig back I'd rather not see Seydoux again, because she just didn't cut it in terms of lifting Craig's performance unlike Green.

    Secondly, I just think 10+ years is enough for one actor, and especially because everything has been so clearly linked during this latest iteration.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,026
    Interesting podcast for sure. And indeed, I agree with @Thunderfinger, it won't be an ending at all.
    Pity the backstory was portrayed as it was, it makes far more sense this way.
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