Pierce Brosnan's tenure as James Bond ended 10 years ago

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Comments

  • Posts: 4,325
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I just wish both tenures had gone better.
    Indeed. I agree. It was a case of missed opportunities all round for almost two decades in my view.

    I couldn't agree more. I would actually go as far to say that in some ways the franchise never really fully recovered from the 6 year gap. Certainly box office wise it did, but Dalton deserved a successful third and fourth Bond. GE brought back the coolness, but Pierce deserved far better than what followed. Although many dislike TND, TWINE and DAD, at the time his popularity was immense. He was the perfect guy for the part, and the series embraced the elements fans loved and expected from Bond. At the time of GE and TND, the general feeling was Bond was back and the future of the series was secured in the hands of Brosnan. I wish the hell we had that feeling now, rather than the uncertainty that is B25.

    Brilliant post. The franchise was on track, then went off with TWINE and DAD. Then they arguably went too far the other way with the reboot.

    Thanks, Mendes! Arguably is right. Although many love the Craig era, the proof to that argument could well be the current status on a new film. The Craig era has been a mixture of direction and tone- nothing felt on track really, other than the box office success. Mixing up the formula too much gives me the feeling the series is on it's last legs, which I never felt during the Brosnan era. As I left a screening of SP with my friends, their response was "Wow, it's obvious the filmmakers have no idea WHAT to do with the character!". I can honestly say, even after DAD, I didn't feel that way. My response was DAD was way too over the top, but Brosnan's 5th would be toning it down.

    And yet after Skyfall it felt like we were on a high.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I just wish both tenures had gone better.
    Indeed. I agree. It was a case of missed opportunities all round for almost two decades in my view.

    I couldn't agree more. I would actually go as far to say that in some ways the franchise never really fully recovered from the 6 year gap. Certainly box office wise it did, but Dalton deserved a successful third and fourth Bond. GE brought back the coolness, but Pierce deserved far better than what followed. Although many dislike TND, TWINE and DAD, at the time his popularity was immense. He was the perfect guy for the part, and the series embraced the elements fans loved and expected from Bond. At the time of GE and TND, the general feeling was Bond was back and the future of the series was secured in the hands of Brosnan. I wish the hell we had that feeling now, rather than the uncertainty that is B25.

    Brilliant post. The franchise was on track, then went off with TWINE and DAD. Then they arguably went too far the other way with the reboot.

    Thanks, Mendes! Arguably is right. Although many love the Craig era, the proof to that argument could well be the current status on a new film. The Craig era has been a mixture of direction and tone- nothing felt on track really, other than the box office success. Mixing up the formula too much gives me the feeling the series is on it's last legs, which I never felt during the Brosnan era. As I left a screening of SP with my friends, their response was "Wow, it's obvious the filmmakers have no idea WHAT to do with the character!". I can honestly say, even after DAD, I didn't feel that way. My response was DAD was way too over the top, but Brosnan's 5th would be toning it down.

    Part of me thinks that the respect for the formula left the series when Cubby passed away. If you think about it, TWINE was when the personal element really started to take over. Now I feel like the Craig era has it's own formula, and much more restrictive than the one from before. When you watch a Craig film you know an important character will be killed off (CR = Vesper, QoS = Mathis, SF = Dench, SP = Mr White), you know that BOND will go rogue and that the ending will always set up a return to classic Bond, which never comes...
  • Posts: 15,842
    tanaka123 wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I just wish both tenures had gone better.
    Indeed. I agree. It was a case of missed opportunities all round for almost two decades in my view.

    I couldn't agree more. I would actually go as far to say that in some ways the franchise never really fully recovered from the 6 year gap. Certainly box office wise it did, but Dalton deserved a successful third and fourth Bond. GE brought back the coolness, but Pierce deserved far better than what followed. Although many dislike TND, TWINE and DAD, at the time his popularity was immense. He was the perfect guy for the part, and the series embraced the elements fans loved and expected from Bond. At the time of GE and TND, the general feeling was Bond was back and the future of the series was secured in the hands of Brosnan. I wish the hell we had that feeling now, rather than the uncertainty that is B25.

    Brilliant post. The franchise was on track, then went off with TWINE and DAD. Then they arguably went too far the other way with the reboot.

    Thanks, Mendes! Arguably is right. Although many love the Craig era, the proof to that argument could well be the current status on a new film. The Craig era has been a mixture of direction and tone- nothing felt on track really, other than the box office success. Mixing up the formula too much gives me the feeling the series is on it's last legs, which I never felt during the Brosnan era. As I left a screening of SP with my friends, their response was "Wow, it's obvious the filmmakers have no idea WHAT to do with the character!". I can honestly say, even after DAD, I didn't feel that way. My response was DAD was way too over the top, but Brosnan's 5th would be toning it down.

    And yet after Skyfall it felt like we were on a high.

    It certainly did. Especially since at that time it was announced Craig would be back for 2 more.
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    ToTheRight wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I just wish both tenures had gone better.
    Indeed. I agree. It was a case of missed opportunities all round for almost two decades in my view.

    I couldn't agree more. I would actually go as far to say that in some ways the franchise never really fully recovered from the 6 year gap. Certainly box office wise it did, but Dalton deserved a successful third and fourth Bond. GE brought back the coolness, but Pierce deserved far better than what followed. Although many dislike TND, TWINE and DAD, at the time his popularity was immense. He was the perfect guy for the part, and the series embraced the elements fans loved and expected from Bond. At the time of GE and TND, the general feeling was Bond was back and the future of the series was secured in the hands of Brosnan. I wish the hell we had that feeling now, rather than the uncertainty that is B25.

    Brilliant post. The franchise was on track, then went off with TWINE and DAD. Then they arguably went too far the other way with the reboot.

    Thanks, Mendes! Arguably is right. Although many love the Craig era, the proof to that argument could well be the current status on a new film. The Craig era has been a mixture of direction and tone- nothing felt on track really, other than the box office success. Mixing up the formula too much gives me the feeling the series is on it's last legs, which I never felt during the Brosnan era. As I left a screening of SP with my friends, their response was "Wow, it's obvious the filmmakers have no idea WHAT to do with the character!". I can honestly say, even after DAD, I didn't feel that way. My response was DAD was way too over the top, but Brosnan's 5th would be toning it down.

    Part of me thinks that the respect for the formula left the series when Cubby passed away. If you think about it, TWINE was when the personal element really started to take over. Now I feel like the Craig era has it's own formula, and much more restrictive than the one from before. When you watch a Craig film you know an important character will be killed off (CR = Vesper, QoS = Mathis, SF = Dench, SP = Mr White), you know that BOND will go rogue and that the ending will always set up a return to classic Bond, which never comes...

    If the next one continues to follow the Craig Formula maybe Tanner will be killed off in B25?
  • Posts: 2,341
    He will always be remembered as the only Bond actor who was ever fired.
  • Posts: 11,189
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    He will always be remembered as the only Bond actor who was ever fired.

    I prefer to remember him as the first Bond actor I saw and the one I grew up with.
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e per il momento che verrà
    Posts: 6,792
    BAIN123 wrote: »
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    He will always be remembered as the only Bond actor who was ever fired.

    I prefer to remember him as the first Bond actor I saw and the one I grew up with.

    Likewise.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    OHMSS69 wrote: »
    He will always be remembered as the only Bond actor who was ever fired.

    That's how I remember it.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Brosnan was not fired. That's a myth.
    His contract was not renewed because of monetary issues. Had he not argued over money he would have made the fifth one.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    So basically fired.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    Apparently Barbara ran him and was crying on the phone.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Wasn t it Pierce who was crying on the phone, every day for months until Barbara got a secret number?
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Negotiations stopped because no monetary solution could be reached. And yes, Brosnan told that tale himself.
    He was not fired. That's myth his opponents like to put out into the world as fact.
    You cannot fire someone who has no contract.
    It was negotiations for a new one.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    I am a contract worker. If I don t get a renewed contract, and they bring in someone else-what else am I but fired?
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    But if I recall correctly Barbara was tearful on the phone. I don't think I'm getting that wrong...
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    edited December 2016 Posts: 9,020
    Yes, she cried on the phone according to Brosnan.

    Some people seem to get off on the thought Brosnan was fired. As if. After DAD they wanted him back.
    Then Brosnan seemed to ask for too much money, negotiations dragged on. Then the new situation with Casino Royale being available sealed it, BB + MGW made a decision to stop the negotiations.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    Yes, she cried on the phone according to Brosnan.

    Some people seem to get off on the thought Brosnan was fired. As if. After DAD they wanted him back.
    Then Brosnan seemed to ask for too much money, negotiations dragged on. Then the new situation with Casino Royale being available sealed it, BB + MGW made a decision to stop the negotiations.

    Seems like history is about to repeat itself...
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    The Craig era has become the Brosnan era Redux anyway so far.
    The similarities are staggering.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    The Craig era has become the Brosnan era Redux anyway so far.
    The similarities are staggering.

    Opposite sides of the same coin.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,189


    This clip seems to suggest that his exit was firmly out of his hands.

    That's pretty much "fired".
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    If you sleep better at nights, so be it.
    He was fired.
    Will be interesting to see how Craig's departure will be labelled once history repeats itself :P
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    edited December 2016 Posts: 8,127
    If you sleep better at nights, so be it.
    He was fired.
    Will be interesting to see how Craig's departure will be labelled once history repeats itself :P

    He will be painted as a hero who was being taken advantage of, and who had the guts to stand up and valiently take his leave of the franchise that no longer respected his immense and immeasurable talents.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    If you sleep better at nights, so be it.
    He was fired.
    Will be interesting to see how Craig's departure will be labelled once history repeats itself :P

    He will be painted as a hero who was being taken advantage of, and who had the guts to stand up and valiently take his leave of the franchise that no longer respected his immense and immeasurable talents.

    :))

    oh, you are good, that's priceless :))
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited December 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Craig has basically covered that angle already with the wrist slash/only back for the money story which he came up with (unintended or not). So if he's not called back he can always paint it like he had enough.

    He doesn't come across like a guy who wants it too badly anyway, and that's half the trick. 'Hard to get' and all that jazz.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Regardless of how it was coached or framed, both Lazenby and Dalton were not wanted back by the studios. Whatever Broccoli and Saltzman may have wanted in '71, the studios said you get Connery back.
    Both were also huge underperformers at the US box office, which likely played into it. Ironically, Brosnan was quite successful stateside, so in his case there were different factors at play.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    Posts: 13,894
    At the end of the day, Brosnan's popularity counted for no more than Lazenby/Dalton (they didn't even take him out for a meal, and tell him to his face). If it had, EON would have given Brosnan the fee he wanted, and given him a 5th film. With Brosnan adored, generally, by the audience, EON would have earned the money back spent on Brosnan's fee.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    At the end of the day, Brosnan's popularity counted for no more than Lazenby/Dalton (they didn't even take him out for a meal, and tell him to his face). If it had, EON would have given Brosnan the fee he wanted, and given him a 5th film. With Brosnan adored, generally, by the audience, EON would have earned the money back spent on Brosnan's fee.

    But after 9/11 happened almost all franchises had to be rebooted. It made sense to start again, just as it does know.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited December 2016 Posts: 13,894
    At the end of the day, Brosnan's popularity counted for no more than Lazenby/Dalton (they didn't even take him out for a meal, and tell him to his face). If it had, EON would have given Brosnan the fee he wanted, and given him a 5th film. With Brosnan adored, generally, by the audience, EON would have earned the money back spent on Brosnan's fee.

    But after 9/11 happened almost all franchises had to be rebooted. It made sense to start again, just as it does know.

    Not really. They could have brought the films back down to earth, just like they had done a number of times before 9/11, but kept the momentum going forwards. And if all other films were going all dark and gritty, Bond could have been the ray of light (not too light though) in the darkness.
  • edited December 2016 Posts: 11,189
    Birdleson wrote: »
    bondjames wrote: »
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Regardless of how it was coached or framed, both Lazenby and Dalton were not wanted back by the studios. Whatever Broccoli and Saltzman may have wanted in '71, the studios said you get Connery back.
    Both were also huge underperformers at the US box office, which likely played into it. Ironically, Brosnan was quite successful stateside, so in his case there were different factors at play.

    Not just played into it, that was the whole thing.

    That certainly seemed to be Dalton's Achilles Heel and the main reason he is genuinely regarded as a less successful Bond even now, his fairly limp reception in the US.

    @MajorDSmythe, I get your point but I do wonder whether Brosnan's age did at least play a small factor. After the likes of Bourne, Eon were presumably wanting an actor who could really sell the physical side of Bond and be a match for their new rival. Hence the actor had to be younger and in his physical prime. Brozza just didn't cut it anymore.
  • BondJasonBond006BondJasonBond006 on fb and ajb
    Posts: 9,020
    Even CR would have worked perfectly with Brosnan, he and Eva Green and Mikkelsen would have been bloody fantastic together.
    The story as depicted in the film could have easily made fit Brosnan as an established 00 agent.
    As it is we got one of the best films with CR, but the things that could have been, especially the follow up to CR with Brosnan...

    It was money that prevented Brosnan's fifth film, and what irony is that considering BB didn't seem to be able to take control of cost expenditure for QOS, SF and SP.
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe The long road ahead
    Posts: 8,127
    At the end of the day, Brosnan's popularity counted for no more than Lazenby/Dalton (they didn't even take him out for a meal, and tell him to his face). If it had, EON would have given Brosnan the fee he wanted, and given him a 5th film. With Brosnan adored, generally, by the audience, EON would have earned the money back spent on Brosnan's fee.

    But after 9/11 happened almost all franchises had to be rebooted. It made sense to start again, just as it does know.

    Not really. They could have brought the films back down to earth, just like they had done a number of times before 9/11, but kept the momentum going forwards. And if all other films were going all dark and gritty, Bond could have been the ray of light (not too light though) in the darkness.

    "Bond could have been the ray of light" - films back then were going dark and gritty to reflect real events. Even the last of the Star Wars prequels decided to go dark to keep up with the times, after two child friendly episodes. Another example is Harry Potter. They decided to take that series dark, after initially catering to children in the first two films. I'm not sure sticking to your guns when the whole industry is changing around you is the best bet. If you want a example of a series that stuck to its guns and was lighthearted during that period, look no further than the Fantastic Four franchise. Who the heck remembers those fondly now?
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