Then and Now; This Week - Spectre

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Comments

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,994
    @Birdleson, what? Sorry- I tuned out for a moment there... :))
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,994
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Go back and do your homework.
    School's not until Monday.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,994
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I would know.
    Ha ha, no wonder your kids love you- you so funny!

    Really though, TND & SP are so high on my list because of the sheer fun factor.
    I actually prefer the DN/FRWL/TLD/LTK/QOS kind, but I can make room for lighter (Leiter) Bond entertainment....
    =))
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,030
    Tomorrow Never Dies

    then
    This is odd. I really can't remember when I saw this first. Must've been when I was still in highschool. I remembering liking the PTS, ut that's fair enough, it's got fighter planes in it and at the time I was still craving for a career as fighter pilot. Other then that I've never been much of a fan of martial arts films, and I wasn't impressed by Yeoh. And, indeed @Birdleson, I couldn't care less about Tery. I did like Bond sitting there waiting for her. And I thought Carver was very well done. Properly over the top as so many of those media types are full of themselves. Fits perfectly.

    Now
    Well, Yeoh still isn't much and the chopper scene makes no sense. I don't like Brosnan's attempts at 'romancing' or caring. Somehow he manages to do fine in, say, the Thomas Crown Affair, but blows it with Tery and Yeoh. Still, the film has some redeeming qualities (still like the PTS) and then loses it again as Michelle totes two machineguns, fires clearly into the cealing and hence kills the Carver-helpers. And indeed, that BMW scene was terrible. Allthough I can imagine Bond not giving a damn about that boring car.

    All in all I can't really decide, so I'll make it a tie.

    Then-1
    Now-3
    Tie- 5
  • GoldenGunGoldenGun Per ora e il momento che verrà
    Posts: 5,712
    I always thought of it als one of the weakest entries in the series. I used to like TWINE a lot better.

    Recently however, I changed my mind. I really like this film. It's Brosnan's most confident turn as Bond. Pierce is sometimes at the verge of going over the top with the oneliners but they are mostly quite good (big difference here with his next two outings). The scene with Q makes me smile every time again.

    Although they take it way too far, I do like the mass media plot. Pryce, Götze and Schiavelli are great villains, especially the latter. Furthermore, Wai Lin is one of the most competent Bond girls.

    It also features Brosnan's best 'car scene' and it has a great score, possibly David Arnold's best.

    It's no GE, but TND is standard Bond handled rather well.

    Definitely now for me.


    Then-1
    Now-4
    Tie- 5
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,395
    Then - 3
    Now - 4
    Tie - 5

    You forgot @BAIN123 and @ForYourEyesOnly's votes chaps
  • Posts: 3,335
    One of the bond movies i watched the most when i was younger, now its one of my least favourites


    Then - 4
    Now - 4
    Tie - 5
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Lovd d it when it first came out. Now, its ok and enjoyable enough but not as it used to be.

    Then - 5
    Now - 4
    Tie - 5
  • TND has always been a weird film for me. GE is Pierce's best and will always be one of my absolute favorite Bond films, but the first half of TND really rivals GE IMO. Its after the Paris death scene where the rails come off completely. Non-stop action, awful dialog, generic explosions galore, etc. I really wish they'd cut Wai Lin out of the movie entirely and given more time to the Paris/Bond relationship. Giving them a history together was something rarely done in the series, and it made it that much more interesting. The scene with Bond & Kauffman was Brosnan's most menacing as Bond and it's a shame we never saw more like it (the Elektra death scene is the only thing that really rivals it in his tenure).
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe JenaMaloneforBond.comModerator
    Posts: 12,205
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Bond films are not arty farty dramas, they're supposed to be (hopefully) well made, glossy entertainment.

    According to who? It's my feeling that the two times where this series went wrong were, first, when camp and silliness took over (DIAMONDS ARE FOREVER, most of Moore's reign, though a few of my favorites were in there), and when they became super-hero action flicks with massive body counts (the Brosnan Era).

    I'll give you the first one, i'm not a fan of the campier films. Diamonds Are Forever is a big offender when it comes to high camp in Bond. Connerys paunchy, bloated appearance didn't help the film either. But the second pint, the action, I don't have a problem with. Well, I don't have a problem with it, if the action keeps me watching, and/or if the camera hasn't been tethered and swung around.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,994
    Birdleson wrote: »
    You're not crazy about CASINO ROYALE, correct?

    It's quite good except for the melodramatic demise of Vesper (book end was better).
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    I have no clue how y'all are scoring here.

    But TND was just a straightforward Bond film nothing more nothing less. The ending maybe a bit unfocused at times but still it's just Bond.

    Then = 1
    Now = 1
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,994
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I have no clue how y'all are scoring here.
    Then - 5
    Now - 4
    Tie - 6
    There dude.
  • Posts: 4,325
    This was supposed to be the first Bond film I saw in the cinema. I was going to go with my grandparents but unfortunately my Grandmother fell ill. So I first saw this in June 1998 when I was pulling a sicky from school. It had just come out to rent on VHS and my Mum suggested that we go and rent it.

    I really loved this when I first saw it. I was so taken by it as an impressionable 11 year old, although it didn't seem to come close to GoldenEye which I had bough on VHS the previous January. But PB seemed as cool, and I loved the action. But a few years later with the release on TWINE I quickly saw this as quite average.

    I was really surprised how much I enjoyed TND when I got the blurays and had a Bondathon. I would now place it above TWINE. The second half is still just an hour long action scene but i was surprised by how contemporary the plot seemed with the phone hackings by News of the World etc.

    A now.

    Then - 5
    Now - 5
    Tie - 6
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited December 2015 Posts: 7,229
    I first saw Tomorrow Never Dies in November of 1997. I was 19 (and now in college) and the world had become a very different place since the last Bond film. Personally speaking, of course. My mind was preoccupied you see, and I needed a familiar distraction. What better outlet to provide this than James Bond? TND was exactly what I needed at that point in time. I can remember being a little concerned about the dip in quality from GE but it wasn't enough to deter my enjoyment in the slightest.

    Pierce Brosnan impressed (and continues to impress) me as Bond in this one. In my opinion, it is his best turn in the role. He seems much more at ease this time around. Yes, they gave him some real clunkers for one liners, but his confidence and composure more than makes up for it. I'm not going to say that it's up there with the all time great performances but I certainly give credit where it's due. It's no secret that he could use some more appreciation around here.

    Anyway, this one has steadily declined in my rankings throughout the years. To the point where it once reached the bottom three. I guess I wasn't in the mood for that distraction anymore and just couldn't overlook it's faults. What once seemed so fresh and modern in '97 now became stale and cliched. I actually enjoyed it a bit more on my most recent viewing but that second half is a killer. As many have mentioned before, the HALO jump is where this film takes a symbolic plunge into the depths of despair. The Brosnan era never fully recovered.

    The whole Hamburg sequence is still entertaining though. I tend to catch myself tuning out the rest of the world for that wonderful distraction whenever it's on. I have to give this one a THEN.

    Then - 6
    Now - 5
    Tie - 6
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,994
    pachazo wrote: »
    I actually enjoyed it a bit more on my most recent viewing but that second half is a killer.
    That is a common complaint.
    I mean common in the pejorative sense.
    :))
    I've always felt there was a bit too much gunfire there, but so freakin' what? I really think this is just a group mentality consensus.
    Let's see...
    These movies also suck because of too much of something:
    DN- too much Jamaica.
    FRWL- too much on a train.
    GF- too much time at Goldfinger's.
    TB- too much underwater stuff.
    YOLT- ah, too much gunfire.
    OHMSS- too much snow.
    etc, etc...
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,994
    Birdleson wrote: »
    But those don't suck. That's the rub.
    So, are you saying that too much gunfire in YOLT is okay because it's Connery, but in TND it's not okay because it's Brosnan? Because, dude, face it- TND is a more professionally put together film than YOLT, basically.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 16,994
    Birdleson wrote: »
    Because in YOLT it's a battle between two armies. In TND it is RAMBO.
    Okay, point taken, but from MY POV YOLT is a fight between two armies in an activly/dormant volcano and an explosive of some kind brings it to eruption.
    All Brosnan's Bond did was duck a few thousand bullets.
    Is either really sillier or more insulting than the other?
    BTW I'm a fan of BOTH.
    :D
  • AceHoleAceHole Belgium, via Britain
    Posts: 1,725
    TND is actually the only Brosnan film that I prefer now to when I saw it in the cinema upon release. Apart from the pathetic climax it's a solid enough entry.

    Then - 6
    Now - 6
    Tie - 6
  • PrinceKamalKhanPrinceKamalKhan Monsoon Palace, Udaipur
    edited December 2015 Posts: 3,204
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I enjoy Teri Hatcher as Paris (I understand that I am near alone on this)

    You're not alone. She's my favorite Brosnan-era Bond girl and my favorite Lois Lane.

    As for TND, it was the first "standard formula" James Bond film made post-AVTAK but was fun to have a traditional "tick the box" entry for the first time in a long while and it ticked the formula boxes nicely. I prefer CR and SPECTRE which came later but I still think TND is the least pretentious and most consistently successful Bond film of the 1990s. I might've liked it very slightly more when it was new but only very slightly. I haven't watched it a lot in recent years but then again I don't watch any of the Brosnan ones as much as I do the ones from the earlier 1962-1987 period and since it hasn't dropped by a large margin I'll give it a tie rating.

    Then - 6
    Now - 6
    Tie - 7
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Snake on a plane of being
    Posts: 42,448
    Teri Hatcher is not among the hundreds of problems with TND.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe JenaMaloneforBond.comModerator
    Posts: 12,205
    Teri Hatcher is my only problem with TND. I would have rather EON had cast Madeleine Stowe, Monica Bellucci or Sela Ward.
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited December 2015 Posts: 15,534
    Then - 6
    Now - 7
    Tie - 7

    It's really gotten closer to GE in my appreciation.

  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,395
    Glad you can join us @PrinceKamalKhan. Been a long time. :)

    And now, on to the next Bondian epic...

    The World Is Not Enough

    Then –
    My first experience of seeing Mr Bond in the cinema. I was blown away. Here was an anti-hero, who was just so cool. The way Brosnan/Bond carried himself, that sense of purpose, sense of self, and inner calm, was a revelation to a shy, quiet 12 year old boy. After this, I was a Bond fan. After this, I was determined to catch the rest of the series.

    Now –
    I was surprised that people did not share my love for The World Is Not Enough. In fact, it took me a while to get used to the vitriol that people expunged on this film.

    Over time, I started to see Brosnan's animation, or Denise Richard's unsuitably, and the melodramatic scenes. Yet, I still find The World Is Not Enough to be a worthy Bond film - the overall premise is inspired and all the Bondian attributes abound and in novel fashion.

    Then - 1
    Now -
    Tie -

    This was my first Bond cinema experience. So I'm little touchy about this film. Ergo, if anyone disagrees with me, I shall throw my toys out of the pram, and refuse to take part in any discussion hencewith. Nay, I shall quit the forum!!!!
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Snake on a plane of being
    Posts: 42,448
    Bye, then.

    Didn t care to see this in the cinema, but rented it on home video as I am always curious about Bond no matter what.

    Same as TND, damn unmemorable. Wish they had stuck to the original idea, instead of letting that stupid test audience decide the Bilbao pts was unimpressive.

    For me, had that bank scene been it, it would have been among the best pre title sequences, it was the highlight of the Brosnan era. Then they had to add that stupid Thames sequence and the even more stupid film itself. Except the mts and song and Denise.
    Then - 1
    Now -
    Tie -1
    As bad now as then.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,395
    I warned you! How dare you have different opinions to me.

    Shocking. Positively shocking.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 20,199
    At the time of its release, I thought it was an improvement over TND. My thoughts changed pretty soon after that though. :) I now consider this film less enjoyable than DAD.

    Then - 2

    Now -
    Tie -1
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Snake on a plane of being
    Posts: 42,448
    Fun fact: Working title for the film was ELEKTRA.

    Not sure which is worse, this or the Daredevil spinoff that eventually got that title.
  • jake24jake24 Sitting at your desk, kissing your lover, eating supper with your familyModerator
    Posts: 10,569
    I still adore TWINE.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 20,199
    @Thunderfinger, worse than that is Skyfall. Before the Bond film, this was Skyfall:

    2aed54425e27cb37e2978da72326a62f.jpg

    Good thing Skyfall is an Autobot and not a Decepticon...
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