Then and Now; This Week - Spectre

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  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    edited January 2016 Posts: 15,690
    Then-1
    Now-9
    Tie-

    This is one of those films that keeps improving everytime I watch it. I was really shocked back in 2008 at how fast the film went by - almost as if I didn't have time to enjoy it before it was over.
  • Posts: 1,098
    Then-1
    Now-9
    Tie-

    This is one of those films that keeps improving everytime I watch it. I was really shocked back in 2008 at how fast the film went by - almost as if I didn't have time to enjoy it before it was over.

    Exactly, that's how i felt when i saw the film first time, it went by so fast, that you didn't have time to absorb the film and enjoy it.
    In fact it is true though, that i have found QOS easier to watch on the small screen.

    If only Marc Forster hadn't filmed QOS at warp speed 9, then we all could of gotten to take in his work on the film better.

  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    mepal1 wrote: »
    If only Marc Forster hadn't filmed QOS at warp speed 9, then we all could of gotten to take in his work on the film better.
    That was definitely Forster's intention though. He stated that he wanted the film to move like a 'speeding bullet' and he achieved his creative vision.

    Note that many of us are indicating that this is a 'Now' rather than a 'Then' or a 'Tie'.

    I recall thinking after my first theatre viewing that this could have been the idea - i.e. to make it difficult to follow the first time so that we had to go back and see it again. At least this film seems to grow on people, which is a good thing imho.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited January 2016 Posts: 7,314
    I'm sorry that I missed out on CR. I would still like to make a contribution.

    I was also shocked about Brosnan getting the boot after DAD. Even though I was extremely disappointed with TWINE and DAD, I never thought that it was Pierce's fault. However, I did understand the rationale. Perhaps it was time to wipe the slate clean. After such a creative bankruptcy, a fresh start was needed. Enter Daniel Craig. I must admit that I didn't even know who he was at the time. While I was initially skeptical, I certainly kept an open mind. Then, when I heard about the uproar over his casting, I was definitely in his corner. The poor guy was being crucified over his looks. He hadn't even uttered a single word yet.

    A little backstory, which is perhaps the only positive (personally speaking) to come out of the DAD debacle. I decided to go back to Bond's roots in search of some kind of meaning to my melancholy. I had only read a handful of the novels before. So, in the summer of 2003, I embarked on a very special journey. I read all of Fleming's Bond material and my mind was sufficiently blown. Obviously, I developed a greater appreciation and a deeper understanding of both Bond and his creator. It also helped me make amends with my disparaging feelings with some of the films.

    The memory of seeing CR in Nov. 2006 holds a special place in my heart. I was now 28 and married, and we were able to coordinate a night out with my best friend and his wife, who were visiting from out of town. This is the same friend who I have mentioned before in this thread. We grew up watching Bond movies together. I was also the best man in his wedding. We all loved the film. I was particularly blown away by Craig's performance. He was everything that I didn't know (but secretly desired) that I wanted from a Bond actor. Not only did he nail the part, but he inspired me with his intensity and dedication.

    The franchise had been rejuvenated. This was truly an awe inspiring moment in Bond history. Many members here think fondly of CR and for good reason. It reminded us just how good Bond could be. I can't believe that it's been ten years already! When I watch the film now I can still feel that excitement. What an amazingly bright future the series promised us at this moment in time. Long time fans were certainly feeling the buzz and it was exciting to see new fans coming along for the ride as well. This is a modern classic and I have to give it a TIE because I still love it just as much as ever.

    I won't post the previous scores because it might be confusing. I'm sure that our wonderful host will add my addition to the current tally. I will post my QoS thoughts soon.
  • Posts: 4,325
    gumbolt wrote: »
    Then - Growing up in the 80s, it was always a thrill when ITV (in its many regional guises back then) showed a Bond movie. Sunday nights and Bank Holidays in particular. The Bond "seasons" were three or four films over as many weeks, with little or no continuity or themes in the selection. It was a big, prime time deal. My little self would watch after my bath, sprawled in my PJs on the living room carpet. I can still remember the commercial break captions - properly designed for the movie, not just the channel logo with the film title typed on. And the best bit was the opening titles - they would, pre-widescreen TV, bring on the black strips for the titles and then expand (or squash) the picture at the end. I used to be curious as to when they would end and begin the effect - the handling of Octopussy was a particular high point.
    Now - Since DVD I have stopped watching Bond films on TV. ITV still cut them and they don't seem to respect them as much as they used to with the scheduling. The last real hurrah was in 1999 when they showed them all in order, with TND world premiere the finale. Different era. We're all consumers now, the films are digital content. The romance has gone!

    Yes, I remember the oo Heaven of 1999 wheere they were going to show every Bond film ... except they forgot about GoldenEye, and butchered half of them.
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    On my first viewing of QOS I thought it was brilliant. On further viewings, not so much unfortunately, although there is lots to love. Then.

    Then-2
    Now-9
    Tie-
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 4,325
    Then - I was quite underwhelmed when I saw this in the cinema in 2008. When CR finished in the cinema I wanted the next one to be released right away. This fell well below expectations. My main problem wasn't the editing, I thought the car chase was brilliant - the scene where Bond and the villain dangle from ropes less so, that was very disorientating. My main issue was the lack of characterisation. I remember one reviewer at the time describing it as being like a computer game - it just goes from level to level like a computer game. I left the cinema without much of an impression of the characters but a string of action scenes strung together by the dullest of plots.

    Now - As with any Bond that felt underwhelming on first viewing this improves with further viewings, with its problems accepted and pushed to the box room of your mind.

    Then - 2
    Now - 10
    Tie
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,969
    Quantum of Solace
    Then:
    With a couple of friends I went to see the new Bond film. One of them who's an avid Bond fan had just come from the airport, as he lives in Singapore and was over to visit his family. He fell asleep soon after the titles and missed everything. I sat there with my fingers in my ears during the title track. Never ever had I had to do that before! The film seemed cool enough, but just before I started to understand what was going on Craig's Bond was walking out of Yusef and the film was done.

    Now:
    As soon as I had the DVD, I started to understand the beauty of this film. The good thing is that the titles are one 'chapter' giving me the opportunity to skip that godawful 'song'. Without it the film is a lot better. Also, the chases work better on the small screen, due to that shakey cam. I really started to enjoy the film and since it's been in my top 10.

    Then - 2
    Now - 11
    Tie
  • Posts: 315
    I remember first seeing the film and how it left me saying "that's it?" That movie was supposed to CR part 2, and it still is, but it's not up there in terms of quality. There was so much I felt that was missing, and every time I go back to watch it again I keep thinking something new will pop out. And something does because of how quick the cuts are. That was then. Now, I still like to watch it when I do a Bondathon and I get a kick out of seeing Craig as a more snippy and cold character. The movie may not have been Bondian, but Craig still played a great James Bond.
    Then-2
    Now-12
  • Posts: 6,813
    Ah, I'm sorry I missed out on Casino Royale, but here goes on QoS.
    Then- like most fans the editing style chosen by Forster (A strange choice of Director I thought at the time!) was very off putting, but I could sense there was an interesting Bond movie hidden among the crash bang wallop delivery.
    Now- Absolutely love it now, the editing in fact is on its positive side, I see little moments in the action each time I watch it. If ever any Bond movie improves with each viewing, QoS does! In between the superb action beats, there is the opening interrogation of Mr. White, the meeting on the plane between Greene, and Beam,( a terrific character whom I hoped would pop up again!), the Opera sequence of course, with that marvellous shiver down the spine face off moment in the corridor between Bond and Greene, all the following scenes with Mathis and Bond, especially on the plane,
    Camille, one of the more interesting Bond girls, the explosive finale, and that great final scene with Yusef. A very under-rated Bond entry, QoS remains in my top ten.
    Then-2
    Now-13.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I was surprised by the negative reaction that QoS received because I really enjoyed it on first viewing. I chalked it up to most people being disappointed because it wasn't as good as CR. Still, there are many positives to be had. First and foremost, Daniel Craig delivers an excellent performance. The whole cast did a nice job, actually. I liked most of the story and was intrigued by the little bits we learned about Quantum. Oh, and I really love the score. I still feel that it's Arnold's best.

    Perhaps it helped that I was in the right mindset. In Nov. of 2008, I was about 7 months removed from my divorce and I felt that I could somewhat identify with Bond's pain. I was thrilled to watch Craig destroy everything in his path. He was like my hero that could eliminate all of the bulls*** that life sometimes throws our way. I really needed that at the time. Anyway, reading some of the criticisms throughout the years I can certainly understand how someone would feel underwhelmed by this one. As for myself, I still enjoy it as much as I did back then.

    Then - 2
    Now - 13
    Tie - 1
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    I can imagine QoS somewhat alleviating your woes @pachazo

    We'll be moving on to Skyfall soon
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    We are entering the realm of then is still now.
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Now and then it is.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited January 2016 Posts: 4,421
    Right on to our penultimate Bond epic (the another one is NSNA btw!. It's a mite too early to do one for Spectre methinks)

    Skyfall

    Then –
    My first Bond film, post stroke. Four long years. The business with MGM. But finally Skyfall was here. This time I took four friends to see Skyfall. Much better! With one of those friends, I have seen Die Another Day, Casino Royale and Quantum of Solace, and Spectre will make it five Bond's at the cinema, for us.

    I was a bit miffed to not see the gun barrel at the beginning. Right until Silva gets captured, I was loving Skyfall - the apathy of Bond; the introduction of Silva; M's “retirement” plans; the great script; Severine, plus the gorgeous cinematography. Just fantastic.

    I didn't like the score however – it would take a few listens. I didn't like the cue, that Newman came up with, when the blatant CGI helicopters are above Silva's island. Too Austin Powers for me.

    The rest of the movie was/is entertaining, but not gripping. The plot inconsistencies were apparent first run through, yet I felt the rest of the movie more than managed to make up for it. They seemed to have regressed back to the 90's films. It was just unusual to see Craig's Bond with a bit of levity. But that end scene, with that office! I left the cinemas very excited to be a Bond fan.

    About a month later, I went to see Skyfall again. I was surprised how quickly Bond's apathy lasted – only 20ish minutes into the film. Unlike Quantum, with Skyfall I managed to see everything first time round. Very superficial. Well, that isn't quite fair. Still, again I loved the first half and Bond's journey through it. Special mention has to go to Sam Mendes. Its a very difficult job, to combine all the elements together for a Bond film, but I thought Mendes done good. A perfect mix of drama and action. Compared to Quantum's amount of action, Skyfall has just the right amounts.

    Now –
    A supremely entertaining film, but not one without any flaws, however. I had Skyfall provisionally in the top ten Bond films when it was first released. Skyfall has been very consistent in my rankings; it is still in the top ten.

    Then - 1 just ever so
    Now -
    Tie -
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Skyfall (2012)

    Then:
    I highly anticipated this film. The 4 yr wait was almost too long for me, and I couldn't wait to see DC in the role again. He had showed so much promise in CR, and even in QoS, despite the film itself being somewhat sparse and action heavy.

    The pretitles were very tense and hooked me in right from the start, especially when Bond fell. After the shameful debacle that was AWTD, Adele's title track was a welcome return to form. I noticed the different sound to the score in the opening scenes right away. More mellow, less frenzied, less noisy, more melodic. I liked Newman's work.
    The rest of the film certainly didn't disappoint. It was a unique and very atmospheric thriller. Dark, slower paced than QoS, and very stunning to look at, particularly the night scenes.
    The acting was just pitch perfect from everyone, and Bardem lived up to the hype alright...Joker wannabee or not, he was charismatic, magnetic & commanded the screen. An adversary worthy of Craig. My only regret is that they didn't get to do any hand to hand combat.
    Marlohe was a standout, and her scenes with Bond in Shanghai (the look across skyscrapers as well as the later casino encounter) were high points for me.
    I'll admit to feeling a little joy (not the intended reaction surely) when Dench's M bit the bullet, finally.
    The new team (Fiennes/Harris/Whishaw) all seemed suitable replacements for the legendary forebearers, although of the lot, Harris seemed the weakest and least able to fill the shoes of her predecessor.
    Craig was his usual brooding self, but I felt he was more of a bystander here. This film was more about the other characters (like GE I felt) rather than about Bond. So even though Craig impressed as he normally does, I didn't feel that he carried the film, unlike QoS where he certainly did. His intensity was also 'tempered' here. Less virile.

    The 2 plus hours of running time blew by in a jiffy, and when it was all over, I was hugely satisfied, with a big grin on my face. Bond was back, and once again (like in CR) he was going to show the world that he was #1. I remember being ecstatic at the positive response it got from the general public. I watched the amazing box office returns accumulate with excitement, and was glad that EON had the balls to make a unique Bond entry for the 50th anniversary.

    Now:
    It remains a firm top 10 film for me (although I haven't seen it since SP, and wonder if the retcon, which I didn't buy, will taint my experience of it going forward - I certainly hope not).

    I have only seen it a handful of times (like CR) since my theatre experience, because I believe it's the kind of film to savour once in a while and not over watch. Like fine wine (and the early Connery greats, along with TSWLM), keep it for the special moments, I believe.

    So this is a Then, but it's damn close.

    Then - 2
    Now -
    Tie -
  • DaltonCraig007DaltonCraig007 They say, "Evil prevails when good men fail to act." What they ought to say is, "Evil prevails."
    Posts: 15,690
    Skyfall

    Before the release of this outing, I had gone through a big Bond fatigue - I watched these films way too many times, especially the Craig ones so I had become very much tired of Craig, and didn't watch a Bond film in full since 2010.

    SF completely made me terribly excited for James Bond again, I left the cinema with a big grin on my face and when I got home and popped CR and QOS in the blu ray player and I had a new appreciation for them. The following days I rewatched other past entries, and they all thrilled me to a level I hadn't reached in the (then) last few years.

    Now: SF is still a top 10 entry for me, but I've never managed to replicate the excitement of that day in 2012 when I saw it for the first time.

    Then - 3
    Now -
    Tie -
  • edited January 2016 Posts: 3,336
    Then - 3
    Now - 1
    Tie -
  • Last_Rat_StandingLast_Rat_Standing Long Neck Ice Cold Beer Never Broke My Heart
    Posts: 4,415
    I'll keep it simple. Still a top 5 film for me, but SP has surpassed it.

    Then-3
    Now- 1
    Tie -1
  • JohnHammond73JohnHammond73 Lancashire, UK
    Posts: 4,151
    Loved it the, love it now. A tie.

    Then-3
    Now- 1
    Tie -2
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    edited January 2016 Posts: 45,489
    This is all very fresh, but I will give it a now vote.

    My reason: First time I saw it I was a bit let down by Bardem as Silva. There was just something very cartoonish about him, and I didn t buy him as this all powerful nemesis. On second viewing, when I knew what was coming, I could enjoy the whole film a lot more. Best cinematography of any Bond film.

    Then-3
    Now- 2
    Tie -2
  • I assume this is whether we like it more now than we did when we first saw it?

    If so,

    Then - 3
    Now - 3
    Tie - 3

    It's odd. When I first saw it I liked it about how I do now, then I LOVED it, then it fell down, and now it's settled right about where it started.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    From the first page @ThighsOfXenia -

    In this thread, gentle readers, we are going to share our first experience of seeing a Bond movie, be it in the cinema, VHS or DVD, our reactions to it, and our thoughts now.

    We look back on the first time we saw each particular Bond film, and our reaction, now.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,468
    Sadly, I don't enjoy it any more than I did the first time, so:

    Then - 3
    Now - 3
    Tie - 4
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,544
    I neither enjoy it more nor less than the first time I saw the film so, like @Creasy47, I'm giving this a

    Then - 3
    Now - 3
    Tie - 5
  • Posts: 4,325
    I really enjoyed Skyfall first time round. Craig was awesome, especially the scene when he's in M's apartment. Although I did feel a bit underwhelmed, probably because of all the hype, and the plot holes were evident all in that first sitting. Plot holes are really bad if you notice them first time round. Think I prefer it slightly now.


    Then - 3
    Now - 4
    Tie - 5
  • Posts: 6,813
    I remember being very hyped for this. The long gap, or the advanced word, I don't know. my expectations were high. When the end credits rolled, I, along with the packed audience left very quietly, and there was a definite air that we just saw something quite underwhelming! ! Craig was great, as always, Bardem an inspired choice (with the best intro ever for a villain), and Severine a wonderfully intriguing character. But it just didn't grip me or excite me. Fiennes was a great addition, but I found Ben Whishaw too low key, and Harris trying too hard! What were these critics on about? I really wanted to like it, but subsequent viewings in the cinema didn't change my mind.(Think I went to see it 4 times)
    Now...I watched it the night before I went to see Spectre. my view hasn't changed...underwhelming! I enjoyed myself far more during Spectre!
    Then- 3
    Now- 4
    Tie- 6
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Funny you should mentioned audience reaction there. For me it was the complete opposite; enthused watching Skyfall, yet increasingly muted (after the PTS and especially Rome, which they were excited for) with Spectre.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited January 2016 Posts: 23,883
    Birdleson wrote: »
    By the way, @royale65 , I see no reason that we shouldn't do SPECTRE, simply due to it's newness. I suggest waiting for a few weeks after the DVD/BluRay is released. That is more than enough time for this crowd, and I think that change in perspective (loss of novelty, home theater/computer vs theatre) is enough for us to go on. Then and Now are very flexible concepts.
    I agree completely. I'd like to add my comments on SP, but a week or two after the blu is out, to give everyone a chance to get a copy and take a look again with a fresh perspective.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    edited January 2016 Posts: 4,043
    Skyfall is a great as it was the first time round, still no. 2 on my ranking and for me personally if only SPECTRE could have been that good.



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