SPECTRE Production Timeline

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Comments

  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,120
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Then there is Sam Mendes....and I do believe there will be a wonderful 'conjucture' of action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action. In such a way that the film will keep its pace, especially in the 2nd half/finale of the film. So I am starting to thinkkk......that "SPECTRE" could really be a masterpiece. Equalling "Casino Royale", "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" and "From Russia With Love".

    Well, I hope you're right on the masterpiece front, but that is something so hard to attain. It would take such a perfect concoction of ingredients that you can't really plan it, you just have to hope everything clicks into place and it resonates emotionally. CR has the distinction, as do OHMSS and FRWL, of having some of the best dramatic scenes in the series. This is the key to SP, for me, not so much the action. I have to say, from what I've seen I'm incredibly excited. I'm starting to feel like this could be genuinely brilliant and the release of the theme has only heightened my excitement. I think there's going to be enough light to counteract the dark (which I'm not sure SF quite got right) to make this feel very satisfying.

    I think where SF went wrong was the light and dark didn't counteract each other. they didn't mix. There were breezy bits with humour and dark, foreboding segments. I hope SP has that 'lightness of touch' they're always talking about, to address the dark without miring the film.

    Yeah, that's what I meant about them not getting it right. CR nailed it, I thought.

    The only thing that felt out of place for me was the last setpiece in "CR". The falling house in Venice....well, I liked it. But it was a bit too 'straight-into-my-face' after quite long romantic wanderings, that started right after the torture sequence...and basically went on until Vesper went to the bank in Venice.

    Probably this is also the nature of the novel (very low on action). But I think it would have been better to reduce the 'romantic wanderings' a bit, getting a bit faster to that action sequence in Venice..and then conclude with a bit more tense drama, in which Bond openly confronts Vesper for betraying her, perhaps slapping her.

    And then she quietly commits suicide....without Bond. For me the suicide of Vesper could have been handled a bit better also....

    Uh yeah, stick to your day job @Gustav
    :P

    I thought the sinking building set piece was fine and I'm still pissed they cut the scenes of Bond using his watch as a knuckle duster. However, the setpiece could have been streamlined by about a couple of minutes.
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    edited September 2015 Posts: 11,120
    Germanlady wrote: »

    But the suicide was heartbreaking really. Well done IMO and the acting afterwards going from deepest despair to rage within seconds was brilliant.

    That was masterfully executed in terms of direction and action. Every time I see Craig's face and the way his eyes Pierce through the screen, it reminds me of Bill Bixby about to transform.

    HulkTVShowBanner_1213308705.jpg

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  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I loved the " Sinking" building, never seen anything like that before in a film. :)
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    doubleoego wrote: »
    Germanlady wrote: »

    But the suicide was heartbreaking really. Well done IMO and the acting afterwards going from deepest despair to rage within seconds was brilliant.

    That was masterfully executed in terms of direction and action. Every time I see Craig's face and the way his eyes Pierce through the screen, it reminds me of Bill Bixby about to transform.

    HulkTVShowBanner_1213308705.jpg

    casino_royale_147.png

    Superb. Wouldn't change it for the world. Potentially my favourite scene of the entire series. It's electric.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    -CR was just right imho. On a recent rewatch, I realized that.
    -QoS was too much action
    -SF was too much talking and atmosphere and too little action.
    -I think they may skew a little towards bombastic action in this one to pull in the foreign (read Asian) markets that like this sort of thing (witness FF7 which still boggles my mind).

    That's ok with me.
  • doubleoego wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Then there is Sam Mendes....and I do believe there will be a wonderful 'conjucture' of action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action. In such a way that the film will keep its pace, especially in the 2nd half/finale of the film. So I am starting to thinkkk......that "SPECTRE" could really be a masterpiece. Equalling "Casino Royale", "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" and "From Russia With Love".

    Well, I hope you're right on the masterpiece front, but that is something so hard to attain. It would take such a perfect concoction of ingredients that you can't really plan it, you just have to hope everything clicks into place and it resonates emotionally. CR has the distinction, as do OHMSS and FRWL, of having some of the best dramatic scenes in the series. This is the key to SP, for me, not so much the action. I have to say, from what I've seen I'm incredibly excited. I'm starting to feel like this could be genuinely brilliant and the release of the theme has only heightened my excitement. I think there's going to be enough light to counteract the dark (which I'm not sure SF quite got right) to make this feel very satisfying.

    I think where SF went wrong was the light and dark didn't counteract each other. they didn't mix. There were breezy bits with humour and dark, foreboding segments. I hope SP has that 'lightness of touch' they're always talking about, to address the dark without miring the film.

    Yeah, that's what I meant about them not getting it right. CR nailed it, I thought.

    The only thing that felt out of place for me was the last setpiece in "CR". The falling house in Venice....well, I liked it. But it was a bit too 'straight-into-my-face' after quite long romantic wanderings, that started right after the torture sequence...and basically went on until Vesper went to the bank in Venice.

    Probably this is also the nature of the novel (very low on action). But I think it would have been better to reduce the 'romantic wanderings' a bit, getting a bit faster to that action sequence in Venice..and then conclude with a bit more tense drama, in which Bond openly confronts Vesper for betraying her, perhaps slapping her.

    And then she quietly commits suicide....without Bond. For me the suicide of Vesper could have been handled a bit better also....

    Uh yeah, stick to your day job @Gustav
    :P

    I thought the sinking building set piece was fine and I'm still pissed they cut the scenes of Bond using his watch as a knuckle duster. However, the setpiece could have been streamlined by about a couple of minutes.

    I also mentioned the more quiet romantic scenes between the torture sequence and when Vesper went to the bank. It was a bit.....long IMO.

    I think.....Peter Hunt executed the believable love between Bond and Tracy much better, slightly more...believable. Starting with that love collage over Armstrong's wonderful song ("CR" needed such a song), and secondly that proposal scene in the barn.....ending with Lazenby's best one-liner "It's not new year yet!".
  • edited September 2015 Posts: 4,540
    Its amazing how many threads drift into an OHMSS appreciation thread (and understandable so),
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    doubleoego wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Then there is Sam Mendes....and I do believe there will be a wonderful 'conjucture' of action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action. In such a way that the film will keep its pace, especially in the 2nd half/finale of the film. So I am starting to thinkkk......that "SPECTRE" could really be a masterpiece. Equalling "Casino Royale", "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" and "From Russia With Love".

    Well, I hope you're right on the masterpiece front, but that is something so hard to attain. It would take such a perfect concoction of ingredients that you can't really plan it, you just have to hope everything clicks into place and it resonates emotionally. CR has the distinction, as do OHMSS and FRWL, of having some of the best dramatic scenes in the series. This is the key to SP, for me, not so much the action. I have to say, from what I've seen I'm incredibly excited. I'm starting to feel like this could be genuinely brilliant and the release of the theme has only heightened my excitement. I think there's going to be enough light to counteract the dark (which I'm not sure SF quite got right) to make this feel very satisfying.

    I think where SF went wrong was the light and dark didn't counteract each other. they didn't mix. There were breezy bits with humour and dark, foreboding segments. I hope SP has that 'lightness of touch' they're always talking about, to address the dark without miring the film.

    Yeah, that's what I meant about them not getting it right. CR nailed it, I thought.

    The only thing that felt out of place for me was the last setpiece in "CR". The falling house in Venice....well, I liked it. But it was a bit too 'straight-into-my-face' after quite long romantic wanderings, that started right after the torture sequence...and basically went on until Vesper went to the bank in Venice.

    Probably this is also the nature of the novel (very low on action). But I think it would have been better to reduce the 'romantic wanderings' a bit, getting a bit faster to that action sequence in Venice..and then conclude with a bit more tense drama, in which Bond openly confronts Vesper for betraying her, perhaps slapping her.

    And then she quietly commits suicide....without Bond. For me the suicide of Vesper could have been handled a bit better also....

    Uh yeah, stick to your day job @Gustav
    :P

    I thought the sinking building set piece was fine and I'm still pissed they cut the scenes of Bond using his watch as a knuckle duster. However, the setpiece could have been streamlined by about a couple of minutes.

    I also mentioned the more quiet romantic scenes between the torture sequence and when Vesper went to the bank. It was a bit.....long IMO.

    I think.....Peter Hunt executed the believable love between Bond and Tracy much better, slightly more...believable. Starting with that love collage over Armstrong's wonderful song ("CR" needed such a song), and secondly that proposal scene in the barn.....ending with Lazenby's best one-liner "It's not new year yet!".

    I agree with you @Gustav_Graves. The pacing to fit in the Vesper romance post-nutcracker was a little forced in CR and I did not like the Venice collapse (seemed out of place in a film that was beautifully toned down up to that point just to give us a climax). Those were really my only criticisms in what is a masterpiece of a film.

    Holding Vesper at the end of CR was absolutely superb. Much better than the comparable scene in SF that came out of nowhere to me (emotionally).

    Oh, and if we're being really picky, Craig should have closed his mouth when eating and talking to Vesper after winning the card game.

    That's it. Apart from that.....brilliant!
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    doubleoego wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    RC7 wrote: »
    Then there is Sam Mendes....and I do believe there will be a wonderful 'conjucture' of action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action -- character/drama -- action. In such a way that the film will keep its pace, especially in the 2nd half/finale of the film. So I am starting to thinkkk......that "SPECTRE" could really be a masterpiece. Equalling "Casino Royale", "On Her Majesty's Secret Service" and "From Russia With Love".

    Well, I hope you're right on the masterpiece front, but that is something so hard to attain. It would take such a perfect concoction of ingredients that you can't really plan it, you just have to hope everything clicks into place and it resonates emotionally. CR has the distinction, as do OHMSS and FRWL, of having some of the best dramatic scenes in the series. This is the key to SP, for me, not so much the action. I have to say, from what I've seen I'm incredibly excited. I'm starting to feel like this could be genuinely brilliant and the release of the theme has only heightened my excitement. I think there's going to be enough light to counteract the dark (which I'm not sure SF quite got right) to make this feel very satisfying.

    I think where SF went wrong was the light and dark didn't counteract each other. they didn't mix. There were breezy bits with humour and dark, foreboding segments. I hope SP has that 'lightness of touch' they're always talking about, to address the dark without miring the film.

    Yeah, that's what I meant about them not getting it right. CR nailed it, I thought.

    The only thing that felt out of place for me was the last setpiece in "CR". The falling house in Venice....well, I liked it. But it was a bit too 'straight-into-my-face' after quite long romantic wanderings, that started right after the torture sequence...and basically went on until Vesper went to the bank in Venice.

    Probably this is also the nature of the novel (very low on action). But I think it would have been better to reduce the 'romantic wanderings' a bit, getting a bit faster to that action sequence in Venice..and then conclude with a bit more tense drama, in which Bond openly confronts Vesper for betraying her, perhaps slapping her.

    And then she quietly commits suicide....without Bond. For me the suicide of Vesper could have been handled a bit better also....

    Uh yeah, stick to your day job @Gustav
    :P

    I thought the sinking building set piece was fine and I'm still pissed they cut the scenes of Bond using his watch as a knuckle duster. However, the setpiece could have been streamlined by about a couple of minutes.

    I also mentioned the more quiet romantic scenes between the torture sequence and when Vesper went to the bank. It was a bit.....long IMO.

    I think.....Peter Hunt executed the believable love between Bond and Tracy much better, slightly more...believable. Starting with that love collage over Armstrong's wonderful song ("CR" needed such a song), and secondly that proposal scene in the barn.....ending with Lazenby's best one-liner "It's not new year yet!".

    I can't agree with that. The dynamic between Bond and Vesper is just about the best you could expect, and that's largely down to the fact their performances are two of the best, if not the best in the entire series. From their meeting on the train to her death it's executed excellently, given the time frame. When he's holding her body, I get the most enormous gut punch, it's the saddest scene in the series by a mile for me. It's pure emotion. As good as the Laz/Rigg scenes are, he is nowhere near the actor Craig is.
  • Posts: 4,540
    Yes, it was a little like someone had flicked a switch re moods and its hard for the audience to switch quickly, IMHO, it needed another scene or two for Bond (and the audience) to deduce exactly what had happened (plus a large building floating on airbags "takes me out" of the movie - shame)
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Given the circumstances
    Posts: 7,341
    I agree, CR falls apart in the third act for me, too much is pushed to the end and the storytelling feels rushed, especially given it's all character driven. The final set piece is, to me, completely unnecessary. It should have played the romance out and ended with Bond waking, finding Vesper dead, phone call with M, end credits. That's the brave move, like OHMSS was brave with it's ending. For me, the way it is, CR falls in with LTK, a film which ultimately loses it's nerve and goes broad.
  • I just adore these discussions. So much taste we have ;-). And especially many different tastes hehe :-P.
  • Posts: 4,540
    Mendes4Lyfe - much prefer your ending but that would take guts from the writer and director, what an impact that would have had. But we leave the guts to Hunt.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    The final set piece is, to me, completely unnecessary. It should have played the romance out and ended with Bond waking, finding Vesper dead, phone call with M, end credits. That's the brave move, like OHMSS was brave with it's ending. For me, the way it is, CR falls in with LTK, a film which ultimately loses it's nerve and goes broad.

    I disagree. It would be dramatically unsatisfying to replicate the novel. Unlike a novel, a screenplay has to show not tell. The inner machinations of Bond's psyche pre and post Vesper death can be explained at will by Fleming, but in the film that has to be translated to something tangible. There is a very clear emotional build underpinned by frantic action and a great score from Arnold tying it together, so when the death hits it is a sucker punch. The whole scenario adds to the sense of helplessness. Also, having Bond witness her slip away only adds to the dramatic weight. The whole scene is Craig at his absolute best. There is a reason that films don't slavishly follow novels. If the emotional hit is the same, the journey can be made more cinematically satisfying.

  • I agree, CR falls apart in the third act for me, too much is pushed to the end and the storytelling feels rushed, especially given it's all character driven. The final set piece is, to me, completely unnecessary. It should have played the romance out and ended with Bond waking, finding Vesper dead, phone call with M, end credits. That's the brave move, like OHMSS was brave with it's ending. For me, the way it is, CR falls in with LTK, a film which ultimately loses it's nerve and goes broad.

    It's a difficult thing though. Don't forget that "Casino Royale" was a very short novel. There's a lottt of character exposition in it, and it's almost devoid of action. If you adapt that novel accurately to the screen, you could end up with a 'boring' drama film.

    Having said that, I do think one needs to think 'cinematically' as well. Basically Terence Young kicked off the 'big blow-up' finales with "FRWL". The entire boat chase and subsequent fire and blow-up of the S.P.E.C.T.R.E.-boats has been developed entirely for the screen and wasn't in the novel. Toung knew how to translate a novel to the big screen.

    I think Campbell in all honesty did a near-perfect job with "CR" as well. The intro of the novel "CR" only had a bunch of lunatic French labour union members placing a bomb near a tree, so that Bond would be killed. By deleting that intro and replacing it with an entire 'chase terrorism/bomb sequence' was a masterstroke of Campbell. That he did right. But the entire romance that starts with a battered and bruised Bond in a private Italian clinic and ends up with Vesper going to the bank......was really a bit too long for me. A Peter Hunt-esque collage could have worked better. And at times.......there was some over-acting as well. George Lazenby IMO is the only actor who acted surprisingly well with love scenes. It's a pity he was such a prick on set :-P.

    I do have a feeling though!......that there is a new love relationship coming between Bond and a girl. And her name is Dr. Madeleine Swann. I also think that, looking at the poses of Bond on the posters, Bond seems way more self-assured. IF "SPECTRE" ends up in a wedding proposal at the very end of the film, then it will be infused with some lovely Lazenby-esque humour I think. I believe after 9 years....agent 007 should get another gf.
  • bondjamesbondjames You were expecting someone else?
    edited September 2015 Posts: 23,883
    patb wrote: »
    Mendes4Lyfe - much prefer your ending but that would take guts from the writer and director, what an impact that would have had. But we leave the guts to Hunt.

    I saw all the films recently again, and I have to admit the OHMSS ending still gets me to this day. So low key and yet so impactful. Unlike many, I think Lazenby could have acted that scene a little better (DC did a much better job in CR) but I like the way they covered the romance in OHMSS better......playing Armstrong's classic over the unfolding romance earlier in the film was also a masterstroke.

    Having said that, we live in different times, and more melodramatic in your face exposition is necessary these days......or so it would seem based on recent events/marketing affecting SP.
  • Posts: 2,488
    How to get internet clicks these days:

    Post an article of the type of "A GUY THAT LOOKS NOTHING LIKE JAMES BOND WILL BE THE NEXT JAMES BOND 100% CONFIRMED AND IF YOU DON'T LIKE THIS 100000% CONFIRMED THING YOU'RE RACIST/SEXIST/RETARDED"

    And it's always a big star as the next James Bond....how many people expected Craig to be 007 after Brosnan ? People always speculated about Hugh Jackman or people like him...it's ALWAYS like this...

    All rumoured Bonds are not going to be next Bond.

    Henry Cavill- already popular

    Fassbender-already popular

    That guy from Homeland- doesn't look like Bond-is too old

    Idris Elba- too street black

    Tom Hardy- already popular

    I wonder when one of these days will see "JENNIFER LAWRENCE WILL BE NEXT BOND" or "DANNY DEVITO NEW 007 FOR REAL!"

    Let's talk more about Craig and SPECTRE people.....but then again actual journalism is not paying the bills these days..

    /rant over

    btw @Marketto since you're seeing all these pictures and info from the movie, aren't you afraid you will know everything by the time the movie is out ? :)
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I've never had a problem with the sinking house sequence I think it was very imaginative and real thrilling climax for the film, it's certainly better than the by the numbers Miami truck chase.

    If this had been some TV film with a low budget then maybe the novel version would have been fine but this was the latest Bond in 4 years and huge amount riding on it, so that sequence needed to be a big statement.
  • chipstickschipsticks NOT on TheDanielCraigForum where they think know Daniel Craig personally and Léa and Monica are ugly
    Posts: 560



    ilario_citton Acquistate il nuovo numero di Best Movie con il fantasmagorico titolo BOND STORY solo per collezione. Dentro, tre paginette, con un intervista a Daniel Craig. Vi assicuro che potete leggere piu' curiosita' e retroscena su lecercleclub.com . #SPECTRE #jamesbond 4h

    11380270_781141032018177_1870416312_n.jpg


    http://websta.me/p/1085358472943719582_203169436
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
    I remember from my short ...um very short screenwriting days that a novel is told from the "inside out" and a screenplay from the "outside in".

    Character and story developed by actions ...novelist can develope that by narrative of inner thoughts.

    My point is I like the ending if CR ...but yes I agree maybe a bit uneven. The movie needed a big action sequence to end it ..very creative.

    Needed something to bring down the house HAZHA ha Haas.... nevermind :-w
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    mcdonbb wrote: »
    I remember from my short ...um very short screenwriting days that a novel is told from the "inside out" and a screenplay from the "outside in".

    Character and story developed by actions ...novelist can develope that by narrative of inner thoughts.

    My point is I like the ending if CR ...but yes I agree maybe a bit uneven. The movie needed a big action sequence to end it ..very creative.

    Needed something to bring down the house HAZHA ha Haas.... nevermind :-w
    Shardlake wrote: »
    I've never had a problem with the sinking house sequence I think it was very imaginative and real thrilling climax for the film

    Yes and yes.
  • edited October 2015 Posts: 2,559
    Bounine wrote: »
    How many action scenes did CR and SF have? These films had a decent balance between action and non action scenes although I would have still preferred a bit more downtime and less action, but yeah, this is Bond...

    .....the movie is 155 minutes. So I think there's space for a lot of character-driven drama and detective esque spying as well...

    Good, that's what I like to hear...but I won't get my hopes up. If the ratio of action to non action is heavier on the action side than in CR and SF, then this will certainly hinder my enjoyment of the film (obviously, we'll have to see how long these action scenes are). As will one liners delivered directly following an action scene.

    For me, the action set piece in CR's third act is just dull.

    "I agree, CR falls apart in the third act for me, too much is pushed to the end and the storytelling feels rushed, especially given it's all character driven. The final set piece is, to me, completely unnecessary. It should have played the romance out and ended with Bond waking, finding Vesper dead, phone call with M, end credits."

    @Mendes4Lyfe I agree. This is something I've always said.

    @Zekidk Yeah, I was just referring to all action clips.

    I don't classify torture scenes like the one in CR as action, thankfully.

    P.S. I must be one of the very few people on these forums who really likes 'Writing's on the wall'. When I listen to this song, it transports me to some elegant club in the 1920's where I am sitting listening to a talented, late night lounge singer. As Roger Moore said, it is mysterious and haunting. The lyrics resonate with me too in part.
  • I think that, when talking about action, we need to differentiate between an action setpiece and an action scene. A setpiece is a major sequence, lasting several minutes. An action scene involves action but is short and not particularly involved. For example, the construction scene chase in CR is a setpiece, whereas the stairwell fight is an action scene.

    With this in mind, from what I can tell, it seems that Spectre has at least three big setpieces: the foot chase / helicopter fight in Mexico City; the car chase in Rome; and the plane / Land Rover chase in the Alps. We know there are more, but we don’t necessarily know the scope. For instance, we know there is some sort of fight with Hinx on the train, but we don’t know how long it lasts or how involved it is. From the most recent TV spot, we know there is at least one explosion in Morocco and we know Bond fires a machine gun – but again, is this a quick scene or a big setpiece? And finally, London. We have seen the filming of Bond in a speedboat on the Thames, shooting at a helicopter. But beyond that, we don’t know much. So will these sequences be considered short action scenes or big setpieces? I will say that if ALL of the action in the film are big setpieces, then that’s an awful lot – that would be six total. But if the first three are setpieces and the last three are shorter scenes, it might not feel like too much. I am, however, starting to see why the runtime is nearly two and a half hours!

    Sorry if this post rambled more than intended :)
  • NickTwentyTwoNickTwentyTwo Vancouver, BC, Canada
    Posts: 7,208
    patb wrote: »
    Its amazing how many threads drift into an OHMSS appreciation thread (and understandable so),

    Godwin's Law dictates: "As an online discussion grows longer, the probability of a comparison involving Nazis or Hitler approaches 1."

    I propose @patb's Law, dictating: "As an online Bond discussion on MI6 Community grows longer, the probability of the discussion becoming an OHMSS Appreciation discussion approaches 1." ;)
  • Red_SnowRed_Snow Australia
    edited October 2015 Posts: 2,375
  • Mendes4LyfeMendes4Lyfe Given the circumstances
    Posts: 7,341
    This may not be the relevant place, but DC recently did a interview and said that we would be playing Bond for as long as he is physically able. Looks like all that talk of him leaving was blown way out of proportion.

    does this mean that Bond 25 may not be the end of DC as Bond after all?
  • AgentJamesBond007AgentJamesBond007 Vesper’s grave
    Posts: 2,617
    This may not be the relevant place, but DC recently did a interview and said that we would be playing Bond for as long as he is physically able. Looks like all that talk of him leaving was blown way out of proportion.

    does this mean that Bond 25 may not be the end of DC as Bond after all?

    He isn't contracted past Bond 25, but he can pull a Roger Moore and make a 1-film contract as he goes until he leaves.
  • mcdonbbmcdonbb deep in the Heart of Texas
    Posts: 4,116
  • does anyone expect Jeffrey Wright to cameo?
  • leas_moleleas_mole love is the promise of suffering
    Posts: 573
    does anyone expect Jeffrey Wright to cameo?
    Unfortunately not. He confirmed this in this interview
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