“Rate The Various Categories – The Fleming Novels!” - This week; TLD & OP Short Story!

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Comments

  • sunsanvilsunsanvil Somewhere in Canada....somewhere.
    Posts: 260
    Gosh I'm sorry I missed out on this tread. Pitty as I've been re-reading the whole set over the past few months. :)
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,406
    Thanks for the feedback chaps. You're still welcome to join us for the remaining 7 book, @sunanvil. In fact, why don't you try rating GF, as I'll be totaling up the scores when @CommanderRoss has finished GF.
  • sunsanvilsunsanvil Somewhere in Canada....somewhere.
    edited March 2015 Posts: 260
    Goldfinger, 1959

    1. Style - 7 - I didn't find there was an overabundance of the sort of interesting little details Fleming usually puts in but an entertaining read nonetheless.
    2. Pace - 7 - As much as I adore the golf scenes in the film, they just dont play out on paper as well, while the climax of the story seemed to fly by. The first third of the book for me is the most compelling.
    3. Villains - 9 - Goldfinger. 'nuf said. Painting girls and then having his way with them...creepy as heck!
    4. Heroine - 6 - I'm almost like "what heroine?!?"
    5. Supporting Characters - 6 - Less than memorable for me
    6. Action - 7 - Marginal by Fleming standards
    7. Intrigue - 7 - Fairly interesting plot
    8. Romance - 6 - The fling with Jill was just too short lived.
    9. Benign Bizarre - 8 - Odd job. Period.
    10. Bond - 7 - Not the most charismatic story for the character in my estimation.

    70/100

    On the whole, somewhere in the lower end of the spectrum for me.
  • Posts: 2,483
    I think I would finish the novels and then do each short story individually. Heck, you could even start a new thread for the stories.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited March 2015 Posts: 4,406
    Right you are chaps. We'll finish the full length novels, and then do FYEO plus Octopussy & TLD

    Just wait on Commander Ross to finish GF, and then we can go on to TB, with the short stories at the end.
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,410
    Sorry for the delay peeps, but here it is:
    Goldfinger, 1959

    1. Style - 7 - well it's still Fleming, but somehow less inspired. It's only half way through that the story pics upagain and starts to make sense.
    2. Pace - 6 -Even worse, the golf game drags and drags. then there's the following of Goldfinger and Tilly (she wears a pink scarf PK!) which is allright. But then Bond isn't killed and again it drags, up until the big show starts and then it's all in a rush to the end.
    3. Villains - 9 - Goldfinger. he's got his wicked ways, he's very intelligent and balanced, which makes him scary as hell. But then he makes one big mistake, he lts Bond live. Even worse, he's employing him even though he's got his reasons to believe Bond isn't who he says he is. That is just... plain stupid and out of character. Fleming created a monster that was too perfect. So he loses a point forthis fact.
    4. Heroine - 5 - Which one? Jill? well that wasn't much except for a lot of fun for Bond, the only extra value beeing the ring which said she thought him special. Tilly is just a jab at all the feminists out there, and Pussy changes sides just for the looks of him.
    5. Supporting Characters - 5 - Well Leiter's back again, which is fun. OddJob is exentric and interesting as well.
    6. Action - 7 - OddJobs demonstrations of his strength and agility, and in the end operation Grand Slam. Oh, and the fight onboard the plane. But that's it.
    7. Intrigue - 9 - From his gold smuggling to the big kahuna, Goldfinger has intregue written all over him. The plot itself, but also the way he plays with the gangsters, he outwits almost everyone.
    8. Romance - 5 - Jill and Pussy. It sounds better then it reads, as there's almost nothing.
    9. Benign Bizarre - 9 - Goldfinger's obsession with gold, even painting escort girls for his pleasure, and of course OddJob. A man hardened and steeled in such a way that he almost becomes super human. And he eats cats.
    10. Bond - 7 - Less of a womaniser this time, but fairly balanced and human. Still, I think Fleming overdoes that sometimes in this book.

    69/100 or 69%

    CR:83
    LALD:76
    MR:68
    DAF:66
    FRWL:88
    DN:92

  • edited March 2015 Posts: 7,423
    royale65 wrote: »
    Right you are chaps. We'll finish the full length novels, and then do FYEO plus Octopussy & TLD


    Only those three? :( =(( :o3
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited March 2015 Posts: 4,406
    Right then, enough delays, let's get on with....

    Thunderball, 1961

    1. Style - 8 ( a hodgepodge of Fleming's classics)
    2. Pace - 8
    3. Villains - 8
    4. Heroine - 9 (one of Fleming's finest)
    5. Supporting Characters - 7
    6. Action - 8
    7. Intrigue - 8
    8. Romance -9
    9. Benign Bizarre - 7
    10. Bond - 9

    81%

    R65 Scores -

    From Russia With Love, 1957 – 96%
    Live and Let Die, 1954 – 89%
    Dr No, 1958 - 89%
    Goldfinger, 1959 - 87%
    Casino Royale, 1953 - 86%
    Thunderball, 1961 - 81%
    Diamonds Are Forever, 1956 - 80%
    Moonraker, 1955 - 78%

    Edit - @jobo - I meant the entire collection of short stories in FYEO
    Double Edit - thanks @Birdleson! My internet connection went down, just as I was doing the Thunderball ratings and GF update!
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,406
    Updated for both @sunanvil and @CommanderRoss -

    Community Scores =

    From Russia With Love, 1957 – 92.71%
    Dr No, 1958 – 87.87%
    Moonraker, 1955 - 85.66 %
    Live and Let Die, 1954 – 83.44%
    Casino Royale, 1953 – 83.3%
    Goldfinger, 1959 - 77.33%%
    Diamonds Are Forever, 1956 – 72%

  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Thunderball, 1961

    1. Style - 9
    2. Pace - 9
    3. Villains - 9
    4. Heroine - 9
    5. Supporting Characters - 8
    6. Action - 10
    7. Intrigue - 8
    8. Romance -10
    9. Benign Bizarre - 9
    10. Bond - 10

    91/100

    91%

    I love Thunderball. I think it is very underrated.
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 7,423
    Thunderball, 1961

    1. Style - 10
    2. Pace - 9
    3. Villains - 8
    4. Heroine - 8
    5. Supporting Characters - 8
    6. Action - 9
    7. Intrigue -10
    8. Romance -8
    9. Benign Bizarre - 8
    10. Bond - 10

    88/100

    88%

    Another masterpiece! My impression is that this one gets less recognition than it deserves thanks to the McClory mess...

    From Russia With Love 95%
    Thunderball 88%
    Dr No 86%
    Moonraker 85%
    Casino Royale 79%
    Live And Let Die 79%
    Goldfinger 76%
    Diamonds Are Forever 67%
  • Posts: 802
    Thunderball, 1961

    1.Style - 8 (little development, no deterioration).
    2.Pace - 8
    3. Villains - 10 (great hat trick plus the whole SPECTRE construct was amazing).
    4. Heroine - 8
    5. Supporting characters - 8
    6. Action - 9 (under water sequences were incredible).
    7. Intrigue - 8
    8. Romance -8
    9. Benign Bizarre - 8
    10.Bond - 8

    83 out of 100 or 83%

    FRWL = 96%
    MR = 88%
    DN = 83%
    TB= 83%
    GF= 82%
    CR= 77%
    L&LD= 74%
    DAF = 64%

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 21,707
    Thunderball, 1961

    1. Style - 9
    2. Pace - 9
    3. Villains - 9
    4. Heroine - 8
    5. Supporting Characters - 7
    6. Action - 9
    7. Intrigue -9
    8. Romance -9
    9. Benign Bizarre - 7
    10. Bond - 9

    85/100
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,410
    Thunderball, 1961

    1. Style - 10. I can't see how Fleming should've improved on this style anymore. He chooses the right words at the right time, and it al feels complete. Moreover that little bit of humour he now injects makes the stories complete.
    2. Pace - 10
    Nice and evenly paced this book keeps you glued 'till the very end.
    3. Villains - 9
    We get introduced to Blofeld, but the 'main' villain is Nr.1, Emilio Largo. Larger then life, boisterous, womanizer. He's the more ruthless, stronger and more efficient version of Bond.
    4. Heroine - 8 Dominetta Pitacchi, such a sexy, strong-willed and interesting character. Yet it's somehow only in the end scene where she wants to see Bond who's just collapsed beside her bed that her shields really do fall off. Somehow I've got the feeling Fleming held Italian girls in high regard.

    5. Supporting Characters - 9 this time it's actually M's hinch that gets the show going. Then there's Felix flown in by the CIA who does play a major part in a very, very good way. I really like their interaction.

    6. Action - 8 there isn't too much, but what there is, is as thrilling as can be. As has been mentioned, the underwater fight is very, very tense.

    7. Intrigue -9 It's one of the best thought out plots I've ever read. The treasure hunt is an extremely good cover, the execution is done very fine indeed.

    8. Romance -8 Yes, Bond likes Domino from the start, but she isn't that easy and it's the slow smouldering of her presence that makes it not only an interesting read, but a good romantic story as well.

    9. Benign Bizarre - 6 perhaps I'm now too accustomed to Fleming's oddities, but this book has little. No deformation of the villain, nor any obsession. Just cold, calculated professionalism.

    10. Bond - 10 This is the ultimate Bond I think. Just a little bit more humour, still very human, strong willed but flawed, questioning himself and the situation he's in.

    87 out of 100, or 87%

    DN:92
    FRWL:88
    CR:83
    LALD:76
    GF: 69
    MR:68
    DAF:66
  • Posts: 2,483
    Thunderball, 1961

    1. Style - 9
    2. Pace - 9
    3. Villains - 9
    4. Heroine - 9
    5. Supporting Characters - 8
    6. Action - 10
    7. Intrigue - 8
    8. Romance -10
    9. Benign Bizarre - 9
    10. Bond - 10

    91/100

    91%

    I love Thunderball. I think it is very underrated.

    Agreed!

    1. Style - 10
    2. Pace - 10
    3. Villains - 10
    4. Heroine - 10
    5. Supporting Characters - 10
    6. Action - 10
    7. Intrigue - 10
    8. Romance -9
    9. Benign Bizarre - 10
    10. Bond - 10

    99/100

    I knew I loved it, but didn't realize I love it THAT much!
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,406
    Community Scores =

    From Russia With Love, 1957 – 92.71%
    Dr No, 1958 – 87.87%
    Thunderball - 87.37%
    Moonraker, 1955 - 85.66 %
    Live and Let Die, 1954 – 83.44%
    Casino Royale, 1953 – 83.3%
    Goldfinger, 1959 - 77.33%%
    Diamonds Are Forever, 1956 – 72%


    A very solid third place, provisionally. Well done Thunderball!

    As always -

    What do you think of Thunderball

    The novel that introduced SPECTRE. I need say more? Then, a fantastic villain, great girl and some mesmerizing underwater passages.


    What do you think of it's cinematic adaptation?

    Beautifully epic.


    Is the community score higher or lower than your own?

    Higher; mine was the lowest score!


    Reactions are always welcomed!!
  • edited March 2015 Posts: 7,423
    What do you think of Thunderball

    A very clever plot sprinkled with great character portrayals, beatifully paced and written. A masterpiece! Such a shame it will forever be associated with the judicial controversy it generated.

    What do you think of it's cinematic adaptation

    A mixed bag, but a very enjoyable one at that. Great epic scale, lush locations and cinematography. Many great performances overall. A few issues with pacing and storytelling though...

    Is the community score higher or lower than your own

    Lower... by the tyniest of margins: 0,63%
  • CommanderRossCommanderRoss The bottom of a pitch lake in Eastern Trinidad, place called La Brea
    Posts: 7,410
    What do you think of Thunderball

    A fantastic read which keeps you glued until the very end. The most fascinating bit is the impossibility of getting in after the disco with planes and ships as it would only complicate everything even more.

    What do you think of it's cinematic adaptation

    They took a great story and added Fiona Volpe. For me it's the nr. 1 Bond film.

    Is the community score higher or lower than your own

    a tiny bit lower, which amazed me, as i thought even the book would score higher for me, but 3rd place isn't that bad at all.
  • Posts: 802
    THUNDERBALL benefited enormously by originating from a movie idea.
    Something that has not been mentioned and that I feel is worthy of note. It gave the novel a sweep and pace that had been seldom matched in his prior work and also prompted a richer cast of characters and resulted in the phenomenal creation that is 'SPECTRE'.
    Interestingly, another favourite novel of mine started life in the same way - MODESTY BLAISE by the late, great Peter O'Donnell.
    The Blaise character started life as a very successful comic strip and the book came about when a movie scenerio Peter had written was largely ignored by director Joseph Losey, who turned out a stinker of a movie.
    O'Donnell didn't want to loose the idea so turned it into an amazing book. Thus good came out of bad and we got the incomparable Blaise adventures.
    Unfortunately, THUNDERBALL was not so good for Ian because it resulted in a humongous legal action that was to haunt him for the rest of his life.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,406
    The Spy Who Loved Me, 1962

    1. Style - 8 ( a brave decision, that yielded rich creative dividends)
    2. Pace - 7
    3. Villains - 8
    4. Heroine - 8
    5. Supporting Characters - 4
    6. Action - 7
    7. Intrigue - 7
    8. Romance -9
    9. Benign Bizarre - 7 (I suppose the descriptions of both Sluggsy and Horror count)
    10. Bond - 8

    73%

    R65 Scores -

    From Russia With Love, 1957 – 96%
    Live and Let Die, 1954 – 89%
    Dr No, 1958 - 89%
    Goldfinger, 1959 - 87%
    Casino Royale, 1953 - 86%
    Thunderball, 1961 - 81%
    Diamonds Are Forever, 1956 - 80%
    Moonraker, 1955 - 78%
    The Spy Who Loved Me, 1962 - 73%

    I got Moonraker behind DAF? Shocking.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 21,707
    This may upset a lot of people but I'm actually going to score this book really high. I love it. I love its setting, simple and small, its protagonists and even more so its antagonists. And Fleming's writing is excellent. So here goes:

    The Spy Who Loved Me, 1962

    1. Style - 9
    2. Pace - 8
    3. Villains - 9 (Those two enforcers, great characters!)
    4. Heroine - 9
    5. Supporting Characters - 7 (Nasty buggers but Fleming makes them genuine.)
    6. Action - 8 (When Bond goes against those guys, I feel the thrills.)
    7. Intrigue - 9 (Come on, the story has quite a bit of that.)
    8. Romance -9 (Obviously)
    9. Benign Bizarre - 6
    10. Bond - 8

    82%
  • Posts: 2,483
    1. Style - 10 (stylistically one of Fleming's best, note the thunderstorm sequence early in the novel)
    2. Pace - 8
    3. Villains - 9 (Sluggsy Morant is a classic; if I ever have a son, I'm naming him Sluggsy Morant)
    4. Heroine - 9
    5. Supporting Characters - 10 (Viv dealt with some real scumbag guys)
    6. Action - 6 (There's not all that much, but what there is, is choice.)
    7. Intrigue - 5 (Not a true espionage novel, hence, little intrigue.)
    8. Romance -9
    9. Benign Bizarre - 3 (There's precious little.)
    10. Bond - 10

    75/100
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,406
    Score highly as you like dear @DarthDimi. I have to say that Fleming does rather well in imaging a "woman's eye view". Quite commendable!.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 21,707
    1. Style - 10 (stylistically one of Fleming's best, note the thunderstorm sequence early in the novel)
    2. Pace - 8
    3. Villains - 9 (Sluggsy Morant is a classic; if I ever have a son, I'm naming him Sluggsy Morant)
    4. Heroine - 9
    5. Supporting Characters - 10 (Viv dealt with some real scumbag guys)
    6. Action - 6 (There's not all that much, but what there is, is choice.)
    7. Intrigue - 5 (Not a true espionage novel, hence, little intrigue.)
    8. Romance -9
    9. Benign Bizarre - 3 (There's precious little.)
    10. Bond - 10

    75/100

    @Perilagu_Khan,
    You had already earned my respect; now you have earned my admiration. :-)
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    1. Style - 7
    2. Pace - 7
    3. Villains - 8
    4. Heroine - 10
    5. Supporting Characters - 8
    6. Action - 4
    7. Intrigue - 6
    8. Romance -8
    9. Benign Bizarre - 4
    10. Bond - 7

    69/100
    69%
  • Posts: 2,483
    DarthDimi wrote: »
    1. Style - 10 (stylistically one of Fleming's best, note the thunderstorm sequence early in the novel)
    2. Pace - 8
    3. Villains - 9 (Sluggsy Morant is a classic; if I ever have a son, I'm naming him Sluggsy Morant)
    4. Heroine - 9
    5. Supporting Characters - 10 (Viv dealt with some real scumbag guys)
    6. Action - 6 (There's not all that much, but what there is, is choice.)
    7. Intrigue - 5 (Not a true espionage novel, hence, little intrigue.)
    8. Romance -9
    9. Benign Bizarre - 3 (There's precious little.)
    10. Bond - 10

    75/100

    @Perilagu_Khan,
    You had already earned my respect; now you have earned my admiration. :-)

    Aw, pshaw.



    :\">

    All still well in Belgium, I presume. No more governmental busybodies threatening to jail you for trimming your own tree?

    B-)
  • Posts: 7,653
    1. Style - 10 (stylistically one of Fleming's best, note the thunderstorm sequence early in the novel)
    2. Pace - 8
    3. Villains - 9 (Sluggsy Morant is a classic; if I ever have a son, I'm naming him Sluggsy Morant)
    4. Heroine - 9
    5. Supporting Characters - 10 (Viv dealt with some real scumbag guys)
    6. Action - 6 (There's not all that much, but what there is, is choice.)
    7. Intrigue - 5 (Not a true espionage novel, hence, little intrigue.)
    8. Romance -9
    9. Benign Bizarre - 3 (There's precious little.)
    10. Bond - 10

    75/100

    I can easily agree with you, I really enjoy TSWLM as a book and have enjoyed my hardcover 6th impression from1964 already quite a few times.

  • edited March 2015 Posts: 7,423
    The Spy Who Loved Me, 1962

    1. Style - 8
    2. Pace - 7 (I don't care much for part 1, but when the plot kicks off it moves like a bullet!)
    3. Villains - 9
    4. Heroine - 10
    5. Supporting Characters - 8
    6. Action - 9 (I actually think this one contains some of the most riveting action Fleming wrote)
    7. Intrigue - 8 (Low in scale, but an intense, emotionally engaging story nonetheless)
    8. Romance -9
    9. Benign Bizarre - 6
    10. Bond - 10

    84/100

    84%



    From Russia With Love 95%
    Thunderball 88%
    Dr No 86%
    Moonraker 85%
    The Spy Who Loved Me 84%
    Casino Royale 79%
    Live And Let Die 79%
    Goldfinger 76%
    Diamonds Are Forever 67%
  • Posts: 802
    The Spy Who Loved Me, 1962

    1.Style - 8 (complete change with IF writing as VM and he pulled it off)
    2.Pace - 8
    3.Villains -8 (appropriate for the style of story).
    4.Heroine - 10 (it was her story).
    5.Supporting characters - 7
    6.Action-9 (I concur with jobo).
    7.Intrigue - 6
    8.Romance - 9
    9.Benign Bizarre -5
    10.Bond - 10

    80%

    FRWL 96%
    MR 88%
    TB 83%
    DN 83%
    GF 82%
    TSWLM 80%
    CR 77%
    L & LD 74%
    DAF 64%

    I often wonder how TSWLM influenced the fabulous Moneypenny Diaries.
    Certainly, it was a brave move from IF and I sometimes think that it was received so badly because everybody was wanting a straight follow up to TB and he came with something completely different.
    I have very fond memories of TSWLM because of a very bizarre personal story associated with the first JC edition.
  • Posts: 802
    Next time we do this it would be great to include location and JC first edition cover - both have been key components.
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