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“Rate The Various Categories – The Fleming Novels!” - This week; TLD & OP Short Story!

royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
edited June 2015 in Literary 007 Posts: 4,421
Welcome to the inaugural “Rate The Various Categories – The Fleming Novels!”.

Community Scores =

On Her Majesty's Secret Service, 1963 – 96.14%
From Russia With Love, 1957 – 92.71%
You Only Live Twice, 1964 – 88.62%
Dr No, 1958 – 87.87%
Thunderball - 87.37%
Moonraker, 1955 - 85.66 %
Live and Let Die, 1954 – 83.44%
Casino Royale, 1953 – 83.3%
The Spy Who Loved Me, 1962 – 79.37%
Goldfinger, 1959 – 77.33%%
The Man With The Golden Gun, 1965 – 76.42%
Diamonds Are Forever, 1956 – 72%


Like it's sister thread, “Rate The Various Categories Thingy!!!”, we are about do to a little experiment, but this time, we'll be focusing on the James Bond Novels, by Ian Fleming.

This way I think we have found a good idea of how our community feels about certain Bond books, quantitative anyways... In time, how does this differ from your own personal rankings? I hope to generate some good discussions.

I'm going to do one film every couple of weeks, then tot up our totals, and produce an overall percentage, on that book.

I want us the rate the Bond books, on all these key elements -

1. Style - Anthony Burgess said about Fleming's style - "a heightened journalistic style to produce a speed of narrative..”
2. Pace
3. Villains
4. Heroine
5. Supporting Characters – be it friend (M/Leiter) or foe (TeeHee) the supporting cast often can be the rich tapestry into which Fleming has immersed us in.
6. Action
7. Intrigue
8. Romance
9. Benign Bizarre - I'm going to pinch @Perilagu_Khan's phrase - *This is a term I coined to describe that critical element of the Bond world, going all the way back to Ian Fleming, wherein the reader/viewer is confronted by the bizarre, the otherworldly or the creepy. The Benign Bizarre, however, never veers into the grotesque. This element takes us almost to the edge of the horror or sci-fi genres, but dissipates before it can define the book or film in which it appears. Taken from the “By The Elements Thread.”
10. Bond – Is Bond proactive, or merely reactive?


Certainly, one can not divide a novel up into bite-size chunks, as one can with films, for example, but, I think these categories, are the true essence of Fleming's writing.



Right then, shall we begin?

Casino Royale, 1953

/10
1. Style – 8 (Fleming did not quite have his “formula” down pat)
2. Pace – 8 (Breakneck until the last third)
3. Villains – 9 (One of Mr Fleming's best)
4. Heroine – 10 (just super)
5. Supporting Characters – 9 (not bad at all)
6. Action – 8 (not too much, but what was there, served the story)
7. Intrigue – 8
8. Romance – 9 (Mr Bond goes all sentimental. Bless)
9. Benign Bizarre – 7 (I'm struggling to recall anything)
10. Bond – 10 (At his most shadowy)

86/100 = 85.45%

Well, that was something.

Alright, your turn!
«134567

Comments

  • jobojobo
    edited January 2015 Posts: 7,500
    Casino Royale, 1953

    /10
    1. Style – 9
    2. Pace – 6
    3. Villains – 8
    4. Heroine – 9
    5. Supporting Characters – 8 (Mathis is great! Should have been in more books)
    6. Action – 7
    7. Intrigue – 9
    8. Romance – 10
    9. Benign Bizarre – 6
    10. Fleming Sweep – 7
    11. Bond – 8

    87/110

    79%
  • Villiers53Villiers53
    Posts: 802
    Excellent thread - well done Royale65!
    Casino Royale, 1953

    /10 Villieurs53 thinks.

    1. STYLE - 7 (his style was embryonic at this point).
    2. PACE - 5 (uneven).
    3. VILlAINS -8 (well defined, great personal history, realistically frightening)
    4. HEROINE -9 (fabulous).
    5. SUPPORTING CHARACTERS - 8 (agree about Mathis - superb.)
    6. ACTION - 5 (not enough)
    7. INTRIGUE - 9 ( in spades)
    8. ROMANCE - 10 (it was also a love story - not to be repeated until OHMSS).
    9. BENIGN BIZARRE - 7
    10. FLEMING SWEEP - 7 (having trouble differentiating this from style)
    11. BOND - 9 (a great character introduction)

    84/110 = 76%
  • jobojobo
    Posts: 7,500
    Birdleson wrote: »
    I doubt that my percentages will dip below 80% for any of these books, with one possible exception.

    Which one is that?

  • jobojobo
    edited January 2015 Posts: 7,500
    I thought so. Diamonds Are Forever is my least favorite as well. Although I do enjoy Goldfinger quite a lot actually, up until the tame ending. Much like in the film... ;)
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Ah, a few votes. Is there any more out there, I wonder?
  • MayDayDiVicenzoMayDayDiVicenzo Here and there
    Posts: 5,080
    Casino Royale, 1953

    /10
    1. Style – 9
    2. Pace – 9
    3. Villains – 7
    4. Heroine – 9
    5. Supporting Characters – 8
    6. Action – 7
    7. Intrigue – 10
    8. Romance – 9
    9. Benign Bizarre – 8
    10. Fleming Sweep – 9
    11. Bond – 10

    95/110

    86.36%

    Not my favourite Fleming, but a strong score nonetheless.
  • Perilagu_KhanPerilagu_Khan
    edited January 2015 Posts: 2,483
    1. Style – 10 (This is pretty much a constant with Fleming. His style doesn't flag.)
    2. Pace – 10 (The fact that it's a short novel helps. There are no deserts.)
    3. Villains – 8 (A commie embezzler. Slightly mundane, but he has some great lines during the torture sequence.)
    4. Heroine – 10 (A luscious and tragic figure. Fleming had a real flair for female characters)
    5. Supporting Characters – 8 (Mathis is great, but there's not a whole lot else.)
    6. Action – 6 (It's not an action novel, and I've got no problem at all with that.)
    7. Intrigue – 10 (It is an intrigue novel, and I've got on problem at all with that.)
    8. Romance – 10 (Definitely one of Bond's best in this category.)
    9. Benign Bizarre – 8 (The Bulgarians with the red and blue cases, and LeChiffre's nasal spray.)
    10. Fleming Sweep – (Without reading through the book again, I don't think I can answer this.)
    11. Bond – 9 (He's a pretentious cad at the beginning--and we never see this again from the character--but otherwise the character is sheer genius.)

    89 out of 100, 89%

    CR is one of the four Fleming classics.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Glad you could join us PK! After all one can't discuss Fleming without a little benign bizarre. ;-)
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Voting closes for Casino Royale at the weekend.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Penultimate day for votes!!
  • Villiers53Villiers53
    Posts: 802
    A shame that such a great thread has attracted so little attention.
    Probably an indication of how few posters on this site have actually read the source literature.
  • Villiers53Villiers53
    Posts: 802
    None the less, we should continue!
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    With you bumping this thread, just wait and have many people flood in! ;-)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Villiers53 wrote: »
    A shame that such a great thread has attracted so little attention.
    Probably an indication of how few posters on this site have actually read the source literature.

    Just like in the equivalent film thread, I find it too hard to give points ranging from 1 to 10. 1 to 5 would have been way easier, the result would become less arbitrary.
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    I'll give it a go, guys. I've recently re-read all the books. So they should be
    Fairly fresh in my mind.

    Style, 9
    Pace, 8
    Villains, 8
    Heroine, 9
    Supporting
    Characters, 7
    Action, 5
    Intrigue, 8
    Romance, 10
    Bizarre, 8
    Fleming
    Sweep, 8
    Bond, 8

    Giving 88/110
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited January 2015 Posts: 4,421
    Interesting. Because on a 1-5 scale, I find it to be not enough range. Hence 1-10. Still, you're contributions are more than welcome.

    Cheers my good Doctor!
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,530
    Casino Royale, 1953

    /10
    1. Style – 9 (CR was simple but perfect.)
    2. Pace – 9 (Even the card game has my heart going at lightspeed.)
    3. Villains – 7 (Powerful but better will come IMO.)
    4. Heroine – 7 (What can I say - she's a bitch after all.)
    5. Supporting Characters – 8 (Pretty good!)
    6. Action – 7 (Good stuff!)
    7. Intrigue – 8 (Third act gets me every time.)
    8. Romance – 8
    9. Benign Bizarre – 7 (I think the torture phase may count a little...)
    10. Fleming Sweep – 9
    11. Bond – 9 (Bond is a killer!)

    88/110 = 80 %
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Ah, we have a mod voting. Cool beans ;-)
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    edited January 2015 Posts: 23,530
    I am a Bond fan first, a great lover second, a mod third. ;-)
  • ThunderfingerThunderfinger Das Boot Hill
    Posts: 45,489
    Me, too!
  • Villiers53Villiers53
    Posts: 802
    Thunderfinger wrote: »
    Villiers53 wrote: »
    A shame that such a great thread has attracted so little attention.
    Probably an indication of how few posters on this site have actually read the source literature.

    Just like in the equivalent film thread, I find it too hard to give points ranging from 1 to 10. 1 to 5 would have been way easier, the result would become less arbitrary.

    Why don't you score 1-5 and then double it!

  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    edited January 2015 Posts: 4,421
    Right then, its time for the inaugural round up of the scores!

    I've decided to eliminate the “Fleming Sweep”, because it is superfluous. And ten categories is very nice, and mathematic and whatnot.

    So, here goes -

    And here’s my working;

    R65 – 86/100
    jobo – 80/100
    villiers- 77/100
    bird- 90/100
    may- 86/100
    pk- 89/100
    dr- 80/100
    dd- 79/100

    667/800= 83.37%

    Casino Royale, 1953 = 83.37%

    A most promising start, and what do you know, CR has gone top of our leader-boards! Who would of thunk it.

    As always -

    What do you think of Casino Royale?

    A brilliant book. Despite flaws structurally, Casino Royale never fails to amaze and excite me, even after all these years. Fleming's prose during the card game, is a lesson on creating a palpable tenseness. And that torture scene....

    What do you think of it's cinematic adaptation?

    A brilliant adaptation of a brilliant book. I like how Bond is the reason that Le Chiffre loses his money. Although, I would prefer the shocking climax to the book.

    Is the community score higher or lower than your own?

    Lower. But not by much, so I'm happy.



    Reactions are always welcomed!!

    See you tomorrow for Live and Let Die!!!


  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,421
    Let us continue with...

    Live and Let Die, 1954

    Remember there is no "Fleming Sweep" for the remaining novels.


    /10
    1. Style – 9
    2. Pace – 9
    3. Villains – 9 (One of Mr Fleming's best)
    4. Heroine – 9
    5. Supporting Characters – 9 (Tee Hee, Robber and Quarrel to name but a few)
    6. Action – 9 (Fleming first underwater passages!)
    7. Intrigue – 7
    8. Romance – 8
    9. Benign Bizarre – 10 (Voodoo and Bond; a marriage made in heaven!)
    10. Bond – 10

    89/100 = 89%

    Well, I never. Apparently I like Live and Let Die more than Casino Royale. Which is almost true. LALD is a fine, exciting novel.

    R65 Ratings

    Live and Let Die, 1954 - 89%
    Casino Royale, 1953 - 86%
  • jobojobo
    edited January 2015 Posts: 7,500
    Live and Let Die, 1954

    /10
    1. Style – 8
    2. Pace – 6 (Some of the passages in Harlem and Jamaica seem just a tiny bit slow...)
    3. Villains – 9
    4. Heroine – 7
    5. Supporting Characters – 8 (Quarrel is another great ally)
    6. Action – 9
    7. Intrigue – 7
    8. Romance – 8
    9. Benign Bizarre – 9
    10. Bond – 8

    79/100

    79%

    Same score as Casino actually...
  • ThunderpussyThunderpussy My Secret Lair
    Posts: 13,384
    Style, 8
    Pace, 8
    Villains, 9
    Heroine, 9
    Supporting
    Characters, 8
    Action, 8
    Intrigue, 7
    Romance, 8
    Bizarre, 9
    Bond, 8

    Giving 82/100, :
    82% for LALD
    80% for CR
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,530
    Live and Let Die, 1954


    /10
    1. Style – 9
    2. Pace – 7 (it slows down somewhat when Fleming start elaborate descriptions of places and their history - not that that's a bad thing, mind!)
    3. Villains – 9 (I love the big man; his lines upon his first meeting with Bond come off as very menacing!!)
    4. Heroine – 9 (it helps that my mind is with Jane...)
    5. Supporting Characters – 8 (certainly good secondary characters but better will come)
    6. Action – 9 (I freeze from pure tension during at least 4 moments in the book)
    7. Intrigue – 7
    8. Romance – 7
    9. Benign Bizarre – 8 (Voodoo and Bond; a marriage made in heaven!)
    10. Bond – 9

    82/100 = 82 %
  • Crazysoul95Crazysoul95
    Posts: 3,336
    I have read the Casino Royale book, but i don't really know how to rate a book and it was a while ago so i didn't really feel my vote would of been legit...
  • jobojobo
    edited January 2015 Posts: 7,500
    Crazysoul95 wrote: »
    I have read the Casino Royale book, but i don't really know how to rate a book and it was a while ago so i didn't really feel my vote would of been legit...

    I don't really know how to rate a book either, but it didn't stop me! :)) This thread deserves more participants so don't be shy and get your ass into gear! ;)

  • Villiers53Villiers53
    Posts: 802
    Live and Let Die 1954
    1.Style 7
    2.Pace 9 (I thought this moved like an express train)
    3.Villain 8
    4.Heroine 7
    5.Supporting Characters 8 (Quarrel was a great development).
    6.Action 9 (packed with it).
    7.Intrigue 7
    8.Romance 6
    9.Benign Bizarre 7
    10.Bond 7

    74/100 = 78% (0ne of the faster more action packed adventures and a book that would have scored very highly on locations - if that had been a category. I remember reading it as a boy and dreaming of visiting the USA and the Caribbean).
    77/100 = 77% (Casino Royale on a like for like basis).
  • Crazysoul95Crazysoul95
    Posts: 3,336
    A bit late on this one, but im going to try

    Casino Royale, 1953

    /10
    1. Style – 9
    2. Pace – 7
    3. Villains – 8
    4. Heroine – 10
    5. Supporting Characters – 9
    6. Action – 6
    7. Intrigue – 8
    8. Romance – 10
    9. Benign Bizarre – 7
    10. Fleming Sweep – 9
    11. Bond – 9

    92/110
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