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You are 100% correct.
When I reflect on the perennial question of the best ever, I constantly vacillate between FRWL, OHMSS & MR as do many Bond aficionados.
That said, go outside the circle of purists and GF, DN, CR, OHMSS & FRWL nearly always feature ahead of MR.
I sometimes used to think that my own particular affection for it was partly driven by the UK location. I read it again last year and dispelled this theory — it's just so tight from start to finish and some of the characterisation is just fabulous. Drax is such a great villain and the whole set up is just superb.
It was my first and hooked me for the rest of the series including Colonel Sun before I ever knew there was a movie series.
Edit: midweek voting alert!
1. Style – 7
|Fleming sometimes flies, sometimes just about hits the ground. Too many 'coincedences', especially concearning Leiter who's got his own mission and shouldn't be there half the time. Especially their first meeting is a bit too much.
2. Pace – 7
It's a fairly steady pace all along. when they get to the lizzy the story runs out of steam a bit. and though the bidding on board shoult be menacing and dark, it doesn't really work for me.
3. Villains – 5 the Spang brothers have little 'showtime'.
4. Heroine – 9
Tiffany is lovely. she's been hurt and doesn't know what to do when she's happy. Fleming makes her the proper bird with a wing down. Small girl and grown woman in one.
5. Supporting Characters – 8 Wind and Kitt are menacing enough. And of course Felix is back!
6. Action - 8
Bond fighting the detroit gangsters, the shooting at the taxi, the train shootout and crash.
7. Intrigue – 7
Not too impressive. Bond has a hard time keeping his cover up, and when it blows he seems not too distressed. And then there's the smuggling operation itself.
8. Romance – 8
Bond yearns for tiffany from the get go, is cautious (far more then he was in earlier adventures, he learns obviously), but still tries to seduce her. Them together on board of the liner is lovely.
9. Benign Bizarre – 7 Serrafino with his western town and train, Wind and his thumb sucking and his attache case with 'MY BLOODGROUP IS F' on it.
10. Bond – 8
Bond is the slightest bit arrogant when he considers the gangs, and the thing is, in the end I can't blame him, for his other adversaries seem far more intelligent and threatening. His blown cover is just bad luck, and that's about it. In love he's more reserved then he's been in the past. he's learned from his mistakes obviously, but still indulges in Tiffany's presence. The 'professional' and the 'human'in him fight over how to treat her, as he first needs her to get him up the pipeline. He's most definately Bond. Still, he doesn't really get tested. just beaten up.
66/100 = 66%
CR:83
LALD:76
MR:68
Moonraker, 1955 - 85.66 %
Live and Let Die, 1954 – 83.44%
Casino Royale, 1953 – 83.3%
Diamonds Are Forever, 1956 – 72%
Which puts it dead last in our rankings. Shame, but there you go.
As always -
What do you think of Diamonds Are Forever?
DAF is a really good novel, until the final third-ish, when it becomes a hit and miss affair. The Spang brothers are not helping either.
What do you think of it's cinematic adaptation?
DAF ranks 23rd so.... Fun, breezy and macabre. And completely disposable.
Is the community score higher or lower than your own?
Lower. I didn’t expect DAF to get such a high score for me, and 72% from the community is'nt too bad. Still, its a Fleming, so one can't go wrong.
Reactions are always welcomed!!
See you later today for From Russia With Love!!!
66% the lowest score given to the novel most of us agree is Fleming's worst? Seems pretty solid to me...
But wasn't it the same with the film version?
1. From Russia With Love - 92.0083%
2. On Her Majesty's Secret Service - 88.50%
3. Casino Royale - 87.85%
4. The Spy Who Loved Me - 80.83%
5. GoldenEye - 78.94%
6. Dr No- 78.7%
7. The Living Daylights - 78.61%
8. For Your Eyes Only - 77.68%
9. Thunderball - 77.47%
10. Goldfinger - 77.23%
11. Licence To Kill - 77.04%
12. Octopussy - 76.61%
13. Skyfall - 75.4%
14. Live and Let Die - 74.52%
15. A View To A Kill - 72.22%
16. You Only Live Twice - 70.27%
17. Tomorrow Never Dies - 70.20%
18. Moonraker - 67.4%
19. The World Is Not Enough - 63.85%
20. The Man With The Golden Gun - 61.33%
21. Quantum of Solace - 59.40%
22. Diamonds Are Forever - 56.05%
(23). Never Say Never Again – 53.08%
(24). Casino Royale 1954 - 52.24%
25. Die Another Day - 39.92%
(26). Casino Royale '67 - 34.5%
from the films thread. Three peaks. ;-)
Casino Royale:
R65 – 86/100
jobo – 80/100
villiers- 77/100
bird- 90/100
may- 86/100
pk- 89/100
dr- 80/100
dd- 79/100
Not too bad, looking at the individual scores. Other a couple of miscreants gave below 80% Community gave CR a 83.3%.
Live and Let Die:
r65- 89/100
jobo- 79/100
dr- 82/100
dd- 82/100
bs- 92/100
vill- 74/100
may- 86/100
cr- 76/100
pk- 91/100
I'm surprised this one beat out CR, tbh. Looking at the individual scores, one can see why, however. Community gave LALD a 83.44%. Just beating CR.
Moonraker:
R65- 78/100
jobo- 85/100
may- 91/100
bs- 96/100
dr- 87/100
vill- 88/100
cr- 68/100
dd- 84/100
pk- 94/100
Surprising I gave MR one of the lowest scores. The community seems to really love Fleming's third novels, giving it a deserving 85.66%
Diamonds Are Forever:
R65- 80
dd- 81
may- 66
bs- 80
jobo- 67
vill- 64
cr- 66
Right in the middle of our two extremes (60ish% and 80ish%) – 70ish%.
I think the character of Bond, has been widely lauded and appreciated, during this run. Only DAF, fails to live up to its illustrious predecessors. I blame the villains, the pacing and the overall plot, on DAF's disappointing returns.
I don't like giving out "10" it seems. Apart from the "Bond Category", of course ;-)
Well, so far I have tried to be as critical in my evaluation as i possibly could be. Love fests are boring, critical evaluation is interesting. Its much more giving to rate the novels as a casual reader would, and not a die hard Bond fan. That is my opinion at least...
Besides, an objective, systematic rating done on the premise of categories doesn't say that much about ones' overall appreciation of each novel. That goes without saying I think...
My personal favourites are yet to come, more or less... Just wait for the next one. ;)
Edit - maybe I should have put in a "tilt category" like in the films thread. C'est la vie ;-)
/10
1. Style - 10
2. Pace – 9
3. Villains – 10
4. Heroine – 9
5. Supporting Characters - 10
6. Action – 10
7. Intrigue – 10
8. Romance – 9
9. Benign Bizarre – 9
10. Bond – 10
96%
Almost perfect
/10
1. Style - 10
2. Pace – 8 (If I have a tiny complaint, it is that part one carries on slightly too long)
3. Villains – 10 (The best ensemble by far! All of them could have been main villains!)
4. Heroine – 10 (Maybe the most interesting of the lot)
5. Supporting Characters - 10 (very good through out)
6. Action – 9
7. Intrigue – 10
8. Romance – 10 (A very interesting dynamic between the two protagonists)
9. Benign Bizarre – 8
10. Bond – 10
95/100
95%
Happy now, "Birdie" @Birdleson? ;)
From Russia With Love 95%
Moonraker 85%
Casino Royale 79%
Live And Let Die 79%
Diamonds Are Forever 67%
Yes, he is the master but not all Bond was born equal.
1) Style - 10
2) Pace - 10
3) Villains - 10
4) Heroine - 8
5) Supporting Characters - 10
6) Action - 10
7) Intrigue - 8
8) Romance - 8
9) Benign Bizarre - 10
10)Bond - 10
Not just the best Bond novel but one of the greatest spy novels ever written.
One of the paradoxes of 007 is that although it's my favourite series when I go book by book, it is only FRWL that features in my all time top ten spy novels.
If ever there was a case of the whole being greater than the sum of its parts, it is Fleming.
That said FRWL is the exception. It's the closest Fleming ever came to writing a straight flat out spy novel and it was, IVNSHO, the book that made Bond.
The whole thing was pitch perfect - a great set up, fabulous locations (Istanbul has always been spy central), two hideous villains and terrific pace all wrapped in the greatest cover art ever created for a fiction novel - thank you Mr.Chopping!
Furthermore this is the one that put IF up there with his own heroes, Ambler and Greene.
If it has two slight weaknesses it is the fact that the central plot was so obviously a trap and the fact that I always found Tatiana less desirable than Fleming's top femme fatales.
CR: 77/100
L&LD: 74/100
MR: 88/100
DAF: 64/100
FRWL: 96/100
1) Style - 10
2) Pace - 9
3) Villains - 10
4) Heroine - 9
5) Supporting Characters - 10
6) Action - 9
7) Intrigue - 10
8) Romance - 8
9) Benign Bizarre - 8
10)Bond - 10
93/100
93%
Diamonds Are Forever 1956
1.Style - 10
2.Pace - 9
3.Villain - 6
4.Heroine -9 (one seriously messed up chick! Good thing Bond got shed of her before FRWL)
5.Supporting Characters - 9
6.Action - 9 (much better than usually credited)
7.Intrigue -7
8.Romance -8
9.Benign/Bizarre - 8 (Acme Baths, the train chase, Wint & Kidd)
10.Bond -10
85/100
What do you think of Diamonds Are Forever?
DAF feels to me like Fleming just didn't have any proper inspiration. The bad guys aren't that clever at all, and though Bond himself falls in love, sorto f, and ends up with the lovely Tiffany, there just isn't much of the 'wow they made it' feeling at all.
What do you think of it's cinematic adaptation?
not much. It could've been a good film if it wasn't made so sloppy.
Is the community score higher or lower than your own?
Higher, but I'm a bit harsh here on the novels, so I won't expect it otherwise for any of the other novels.
1) Style - 10
2) Pace - 9
3) Villains - 10
4) Heroine - 9
5) Supporting Characters - 8
6) Action - 7 (one of Fleming's least "active" novels, but that's okay)
7) Intrigue - 9
8) Romance - 8
9) Benign Bizarre - 6 (outside of Grant's moon-phase psychopathy, not much here)
10)Bond - 10
86/100
Interesting. Where would you place Fleming's Bond within your top 10 all time spy novels?
1. The Honourable Schoolboy by John Le Carre (1977)
2. Berlin Game by Len Deighton (1983)
3. The Tears Of Autumn by Charles McCarry (1974)
4. From Russia With Love by Ian Fleming (1957)
5. The Day Of The Jackal by Frederick Forsyth (1971)
6. Sabre Tooth by Peter O'Donnell (1966)
7. Typhoon by Charles Cumming (2008)
8. Mission To Paris by Alan Furst (2012)
9. The Mask Of Domitrios by Eric Ambler (1939)
10. The Dying Light by Henry Porter (2009)
This for me, is the paradox of Bond. When I rate the books within the context of my thus far all time spy thrillers, only FRWL slips in at #5.
Conversely, when I think of my all time favourite series, Bond vies with Peter O'Donnell's Blaise and Len Deighton's Samson for the crown. This is why, IVNSHO, the sum of Bond is bigger than the individual parts.
Of course some aficionados may argue that I'm comparing very different things: Le Carre's stark, politically informed realism with the outright fantasy of Blaise or the faction of Forsyth but, for me, they all are quality books that belong to the same genre and that have thrilled me.
Agreed. Were I to teach a college course on the thriller, there would be at least three Flemings on the reading list, while I doubt any other author would manage more than one. I love David Stone, Gerald Seymour, and to a lesser extent, Clive Cussler, but Fleming is the godfather of them all.
The one I can't find on my shelves, so I'll have to do this from long-ago memory. which is a pity because this is a very good one.
From Russia With Love, 1957
1) Style - 10
2) Pace - 9
I remember this starting off far more intreguing then DAF, and keeping it up all the way.
3) Villains - 10
Red Grant, Klebb.
4) Heroine - 9
Tania is a lovely girl and she sure plays it well.
5) Supporting Characters - 8
6) Action - 7 not too much, but the tension sure makes up for that
7) Intrigue - 10. From the get-go it's all to lure Bond in and make him fall down. Then there's Tania herself falling in love with Bond and double crossing the Soviets.
8) Romance - 8
9) Benign Bizarre - 7 Foremost Red Grant and his werewolfishness. The Gypsyfight I think counts here as well.
10)Bond - 10
88/100 or 88%
I agree that Le Carre's earlier work was his best with two exceptions and I was wondering if you've read them.
'The Constant Gardner' was a great book and his latest, 'A Delicate Truth' was a real return to form and is, IVNSHO, one of his absolute best. Stays with you forever.
As for Ludlum, I couldn't agree with you more. He was a sleeping tablet of some proportion.
nope, haven't read TCG nor ADT, but will do now. thanks!