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Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I wouldn't put TND in the same category as either YOLT or TSWLM personally.
  • MurdockMurdock The minus world
    Posts: 16,334
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I wouldn't put TND in the same category as either YOLT or TSWLM personally.

    All it was missing was a vehicle eating another vehicle.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    Dies doesn't have the class of those two - it sacrifices sophistication and story for all out action.

    It's got some good scenes but ove I consider TND one of the weaker films.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2014 Posts: 17,697
    Birdleson wrote:
    I've seen it about 15 times.
    Hmmm... I've never seen a movie I didn't think was very good more than 10 times, myself... ;)
    Birdleson wrote:
    That was a really asshole response.
    C'mon man, that little laughing smiley was there... sorry if you took it that seriously.
    Just please don't make fun of da Broz. His Bond and his first two were great.
    Or... go ahead and make fun of him & face the wrath of the smileys!!! b-(
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,697
    I watch 'em rather scattershot as the mood strikes. Some (like TLD & TND) a ridiculous amount of times, others (like MR & AVTAK) not at all...
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited February 2014 Posts: 14,046
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Don't get me wrong I don't think he's a 'good' villain, but I do find myself laughing at his over-the-top smarminess.
    Agreed with the comments on Toby Stephens and Graves. I can't help but laugh at his whole attitude, notably the line "...but MY dreams can kill YOU". :))
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Dies doesn't have the class of those two - it sacrifices sophistication and story for all out action.

    It's got some good scenes but ove I consider TND one of the weaker films.
    Overall, I enjoy TND more than YOLT, but lose some interest come Ha Long Bay, unlike YOLT's third act which keeps me captivated. Spy is just epic all the way through.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,697
    QBranch wrote:
    Overall, I enjoy TND more than YOLT, but lose some interest come Ha Long Bay
    "It's mostly dull routine, of course, but every now and then you get to sail on a beautiful evening like this. And sometimes work with a decadent agent of a corrupt Western power."

    "And they say communists don't know how to have fun."

  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 14,046
    haha Those lines were pretty good I thought. One thing I didn't like was when Wai Lin discovers she has one bullet, and then turns to hit the hose in slow-mo. It reminds me of Zao's slow-mo coat whip when Jinx is being interrogated. There's no need for that crap in a Bond film.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited February 2014 Posts: 17,697
    QBranch wrote:
    One thing I didn't like was when Wai Lin discovers she has one bullet, and then turns to hit the hose in slow-mo.
    There's no need for that crap in a Bond film.
    Back in the 90's the West was just fully discovering the wildness of Chinese action. It makes sense given the era, even if it wasn't really warranted in a Bond movie. In any case, it was better than the chop-socky stuff in TMWTGG, however much that still tickles me.
  • RogerMoore007RogerMoore007
    edited February 2014 Posts: 170
    wrong thread!


  • hildebrand_rarityhildebrand_rarity
    Posts: 316
    QBranch wrote:
    haha Those lines were pretty good I thought. One thing I didn't like was when Wai Lin discovers she has one bullet, and then turns to hit the hose in slow-mo. It reminds me of Zao's slow-mo coat whip when Jinx is being interrogated. There's no need for that crap in a Bond film.

    like the random slo mo at the beginning of LTK!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,697
    hildebrand_rarity wrote:
    like the random slo mo at the beginning of LTK!
    That was an infatuation with American action films at the time. Again, not needed or welcome in a proper Bond movie, but Bond movies since the 70's have been somewhat... incorporatative...
    (I invented a new word!)
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,903
    I must confess I rather like Carver and Graves. I think Toby Stephens is good as a sneering pantomime style villain. Certainly in DAD anyway. Can't say his villainous take would suit all Bond films. But he's quite entertaining for sure. The same too with Jonathan Pryce as Carver. Neither TND or DAD are serious, and are OTT in their plot. Making the villain OTT as well worked well imo.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Benny wrote:
    I must confess I rather like Carver and Graves. I think Toby Stephens is good as a sneering pantomime style villain. Certainly in DAD anyway. Can't say his villainous take would suit all Bond films. But he's quite entertaining for sure. The same too with Jonathan Pryce as Carver. Neither TND or DAD are serious, and are OTT in their plot. Making the villain OTT as well worked well imo.

    Totally agree with this. I will admit, I saw DAD about 10 times at the cinema, for two main reasons. I'd just started University and had an immense amount of time to waste, plus myself and a friend found Stephens' performance, brilliantly theatrical and endlessly quotable. As for Carver, I think he's one of the great Bond villains. Considering how much I like Carlyle as an actor, Renard is nowhere near as entertaining as these two.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    Renard could have been used so much better than he was.He gets a big build up as to the bullet in his brain etc and thats about it really.A waste of a good actor and a character with potential to have been one of the best.

    He is totally over-shadowed by Electra and even to some extent,Bullion.

    However,Carver and Graves are perfect villains for the films they are in.I dont think Anthony Hopkins would have played Carver any better than Jonathan Price did.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    RC7 wrote:
    Benny wrote:
    I must confess I rather like Carver and Graves. I think Toby Stephens is good as a sneering pantomime style villain. Certainly in DAD anyway. Can't say his villainous take would suit all Bond films. But he's quite entertaining for sure. The same too with Jonathan Pryce as Carver. Neither TND or DAD are serious, and are OTT in their plot. Making the villain OTT as well worked well imo.

    Totally agree with this. I will admit, I saw DAD about 10 times at the cinema, for two main reasons. I'd just started University and had an immense amount of time to waste, plus myself and a friend found Stephens' performance, brilliantly theatrical and endlessly quotable. As for Carver, I think he's one of the great Bond villains. Considering how much I like Carlyle as an actor, Renard is nowhere near as entertaining as these two.

    Me and a friend always used to find Graves's line "oh look...parachutes for the both of us...whoops!...not anymore" a particular highlight :))
  • identigraphidentigraph
    Posts: 1,052
    barryt007 wrote:
    Renard could have been used so much better than he was.He gets a big build up as to the bullet in his brain etc and thats about it really.A waste of a good actor and a character with potential to have been one of the best.

    He is totally over-shadowed by Electra and even to some extent,Bullion.

    However,Carver and Graves are perfect villains for the films they are in.I dont think Anthony Hopkins would have played Carver any better than Jonathan Price did.

    I quite like Carver, he's just a jazzed up old school Bond Villian really, Nero jacket included.

    Renard was potentially a classic villian/henchman but Carlyle is just totally wrong for the part, he should have been a big intimidating presence.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I dont know how tall Robert Carlyle is but he seemed very small and slight in TWINE as well
  • LegateDamarLegateDamar
    Posts: 381
    barryt007 wrote:
    Renard could have been used so much better than he was.He gets a big build up as to the bullet in his brain etc and thats about it really.A waste of a good actor and a character with potential to have been one of the best.

    He is totally over-shadowed by Electra and even to some extent,Bullion.

    However,Carver and Graves are perfect villains for the films they are in.I dont think Anthony Hopkins would have played Carver any better than Jonathan Price did.

    Renard was good, not great, IMO. Electra really stole the show.

  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    She did indeed !

    She is quite high on my list of favourite villains,unlike Renard who is very close to the bottom.
  • delticminerdelticminer
    Posts: 115
    Everyone has a got at TLD for weak villains (I personally disagree, at least with Koskov), and yet nobody bats an eye at the very weak villains in TWINE. Renard could have been better, but having him as a glorified henchman was a terrible idea. Never really understood why one film gets battered for not having a strong villain, and one film just passes by the radar for it.

    Or maybe I'm just defending my favourite Bond film. I dunno.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    Posts: 11,189
    I suppose Whitiker isn't all that memorable a character. Electra and Renard are (well...sort of).
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    Posts: 12,837
    I preferred Graves when he was Colonel Moon. He wasn't in it for long but I liked him, I loved the bit where he unzips the punchbag and a guy falls out.
  • LegateDamarLegateDamar
    Posts: 381
    delticminer wrote:
    Everyone has a got at TLD for weak villains (I personally disagree, at least with Koskov)...

    I really liked Koskov and Whitiker--as I've posted in another thread, they were "real life" villains and not cartoonish.

  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited February 2014 Posts: 13,351
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I suppose Whitiker isn't all that memorable a character. Electra and Renard are (well...sort of).

    I think that's it, really. They don't add much weight to everything else that is going on and aren't played by the best actors either. They seem very much in the background. I can't deny Necros is great, mind.
  • BAIN123BAIN123
    edited February 2014 Posts: 11,189
    I think people prefer the more flamboyant /cartoonish villains to be honest.

    I too really liked Necros though.
  • thelivingroyalethelivingroyale
    edited February 2014 Posts: 12,837
    Necros is brilliant but Koskov and Whittaker, eh. That's the reason I prefer LTK to TLD (my top two), it knocks it out of the park villain wise.
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    I also think that,where Renard was a weak character,he was balanced off with Electra,who was a memorable,flamboyant character.

    Koskov and Whittaker were a much of a much,thats why they are weaker as a team IMO.

    But Necros was a truly frightening character,a real threat.
  • delticminerdelticminer
    Posts: 115
    LegateDamar wrote:
    delticminer wrote:
    Everyone has a got at TLD for weak villains (I personally disagree, at least with Koskov)...

    I really liked Koskov and Whitiker--as I've posted in another thread, they were "real life" villains and not cartoonish.

    Koskov was a great villain, a wonderful slimy general, who changes his story all the time to protect himself - Whitaker is okay, he doesn't get enough screen time to be all that great, but it's a good idea, and Baker pulls it off pretty well.

    The villains are probably the weakest part of TLD, compared with the Bond, Girl, Plot, Writing, Music etc...
  • barryt007barryt007
    Posts: 19,339
    thelivingroyale wrote:
    That's the reason I prefer LTK to TLD (my top two), it knocks it out of the park villain wise.

    Agreed..the array of villains in LTK was very good,and for me,it was a faster moving film and i find it a lot easier to watch than TLD.

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