Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Controversial: Brosnan's performance as Bond is tired and weary
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    edited December 2013 Posts: 13,879
    chrisisall wrote:
    QBranch wrote:
    Murdock wrote:
    Live and Let Die was a pretty good Bond film.
    Now this is a film I see all over the place in members rankings. I believe @Baltimore007 speaks very highly of it, as do I. It's one of the earliest Bond films I saw, and my praise for it has not changed since.
    I like it quite a bit. Rosie notwithstanding.
    :))
    You will explain what went wrong.

    "I see the intervention of a woman an annoying character." ;)
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    QBranch wrote:
    "I see the intervention of a woman an annoying character." ;)

    Annoying actress. :D
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    Controversial: Brosnan's performance as Bond is tired and weary

    Agree. He spends the entirety of GE looking like he's a 60 year old florist who's been caught in the cross-hairs. He definitely doesn't appear to be the most handsome 007 of all time, and its a wonder he was kept on, given how weary his performance was. Bloody Brozzer, if only he'd cared about the role as much as Lazenby.
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,811
    GoldenEye is hugely over rated, and at times has cheap production values akin to a tv movie. Whilst enjoyable it lacks a certain element to make it great.

    I hate to say this, and I'm a huge Dalton fan, and believe he was a fantastic Bond. The only Bond actor thus far to get as close as my interpretation of Fleming's Bond. But I have wondered recently whether he was the best choice to take over from Roger Moore's Bond at the end of the 80's?
    Was Dalton miscast as an 80's Bond?
    I think perhaps had Brosnan not got caught up in the legal nightmare of Remmington Steele, he may have made an easier transition for the general movie going audience. Certainly in the North American market.

  • Controversial: Brosnan's performance as Bond is tired and weary

    Depends what you mean by that. I think he channels some of Dalton's burnt-out old killer, but he also offsets it with Moore's charm, Connery's old school suaveness, and even a bit of Lazenby's vulnerability.
  • Controversial: Brosnan's performance as Bond is tired and weary

    I can see where you're coming from. I actually like all of the Brosnan films except DAD of course, and TWINE and GE are both in my top 10, but I have them that high for reasons other than Remmy Steele. I always saw him as a mix, which I think is good at times but also, for me at least, causes him to lose some of his own originality and style. I think he was at his best is TWINE, where I think he does a Craig vulnerability/Dalton hardened mix with a smidge of Moore very well. However, I feel like he would often come off as being all over the place.
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 7,653
    I'm not sure if this will apply, but...

    With the collective exception of Godfather I and II, Casino Royale is the greatest movie of all time.

    It is time you get out and watch some good movies outside of 007 universe, if CR is in your top three, and of course some better 007 movies as there are plenty. :!! ;)

  • Murdock wrote:
    Live and Let Die was a pretty good Bond film.
    I've always really liked LALD, but I don't know if it constitutes a particularly "good" film... The whole thing consists of the villains making increasingly retarded attempts at eliminating 007, and failing miserably. I read an amazing (and hilarious) review online once that made it obvious just how stupid the villains' attempts at killing Bond really are, but I can't find it at the moment.

    Still, I love the film. The whole crazy blaxploitation vibe makes me smile every time.
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 12,837
    Touched on this in another thread but I thought I'd post it here.

    I don't think the SF opening shot is that great. It's Bond standing in a corridor. Looks nice but it's not worth sacrificing the gunbarrel for.

    Imagine a proper, well designed gunbarrel for the first time since TWINE, at the start where it belongs, with the music from an old (John Barry scored) gunbarrel playing over it. Perfect way to kick of the 50th. I'm sorry, I know lots of people defended Mendes/Deakins' decision here but Bond standing in a corridor is not better than this would've been.

    The opening of QOS however is brilliant and it actually benefits from not having a gunbarrel. I love how it pans over the lake (which looks great, cracking cinematography) while cutting to the roar of the Aston in the tunnel, building up to the car chase (shame the chase itself was so badly edited). It's a fantastic opening and it wouldn't have been as good if a gunbarrel had come before it.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,417
    Touched on this in another thread but I thought I'd post it here.

    I don't think the SF opening shot is that great. It's Bond standing in a corridor. Looks nice but it's not worth sacrificing the gunbarrel for.

    Imagine a proper, well designed gunbarrel for the first time since TWINE, at the start where it belongs, with the music from an old (John Barry scored) gunbarrel playing over it. Perfect way to kick of the 50th. I'm sorry, I know lots of people defended Mendes/Deakins' decision here but Bond standing in a corridor is not better than this would've been.


    Quite. I loved CR's gunbarrel. And I suppose the reasons why it was moved to the end of the movie for QoS held up - Bond wasn't finished evolving. But with SF, especially considering what we got instead, there's was no reason for putting the GB at the end.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,368
    @thelivingroyale, while I loved the opening of SF - the loud, quick instrumental kick-in as he steps into frame - I'd prefer the gunbarrel, especially since we have yet to have a proper gunbarrel intro in the Craig films yet.
  • Posts: 2,400
    SaintMark wrote:
    I'm not sure if this will apply, but...

    With the collective exception of Godfather I and II, Casino Royale is the greatest movie of all time.

    It is time you get out and watch some good movies outside of 007 universe, if CR is in your top three, and of course some better 007 movies as there are plenty. :!! ;)

    Or, perhaps I do watch movies other than Bond films and it is just my genuine opinion that Casino Royale is that well-made of a film? It really annoys me that I hold a fantastic film in the high regard it deserves and peoples' response is "you need to go see more movies" when, in fact, I have. I've likely watched more than you, in fact; I'm a cinemaphile, through and through.
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,368
    @StirredNotShaken, I wouldn't say it's in my Top 3 Films of All Time, but I can most certainly see why someone would rank it so highly. I love it so much and don't see the point in questioning your movie-watching frequency if you rank it so highly in a general film sense. It's your opinion.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,727
    I couldn't possibly care less that DAF is not a "proper" follow-up to OHMSS. I view each film as a unique entry and not as part of some sacrosanct timeline. For that reason, I'm able to appreciate DAF on its merits and not be fussed that Bond exchanges humorous quips with the man who murdered his wife. Likewise, I'm not bothered by all the reboot tantrums.

    DAF has merits? :O

    Bloody incredible score and title song, one of the wittiest screenplays in the canon, Connery self-assured and fully at grips with the role, Charles Gray's Blofeld, memorable side characters, Ken Adams's Penthouse design, and a twisted sense of macabre - not unlike the Bond equivalent of an early 70s Hammer/Amicus production.

    An interesting take on things; I concur, @minorMajor9th. I especially like the Hammer mention there - can you elaborate at all? Which Hammer films of the era are similar to that of DAF would you say?
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    I adore Skyfall's opening. The sudden sharp note of the Bond theme as Bond walks center frame, coming closer and closer down the hallway to meet the camera while a more subtle score plays; brilliance. As I have often said, I don't care if the gun barrel is there or not, and that opening was a good excuse to kick it to the curb for sure.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 17,727
    I adore Skyfall's opening. The sudden sharp note of the Bond theme as Bond walks center frame, coming closer and closer down the hallway to meet the camera while a more subtle score plays; brilliance. As I have often said, I don't care if the gun barrel is there or not, and that opening was a good excuse to kick it to the curb for sure.

    Yes, agreed and of course it was a real-world representation of the gun-barrel in some ways, too.
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    Touched on this in another thread but I thought I'd post it here.

    I don't think the SF opening shot is that great. It's Bond standing in a corridor. Looks nice but it's not worth sacrificing the gunbarrel for.

    Imagine a proper, well designed gunbarrel for the first time since TWINE, at the start where it belongs, with the music from an old (John Barry scored) gunbarrel playing over it. Perfect way to kick of the 50th. I'm sorry, I know lots of people defended Mendes/Deakins' decision here but Bond standing in a corridor is not better than this would've been.

    The opening of QOS however is brilliant and it actually benefits from not having a gunbarrel. I love how it pans over the lake (which looks great, cracking cinematography) while cutting to the roar of the Aston in the tunnel, building up to the car chase (shame the chase itself was so badly edited). It's a fantastic opening and it wouldn't have been as good if a gunbarrel had come before it.
    Well said @thelivingroyale. I agree on all points except for the opening shot of QoS not being as effective with the gunbarrel sequence. I think it would have worked out marvelously. To your point though, it is a much better shot to sacrfice the gunbarrel for than Skyfall's.
  • and that opening was a good excuse to kick it to the curb for sure.

    I think it was a crap excuse, especially considering it was the 50th anniversary.
    Dragonpol wrote:
    and of course it was a real-world representation of the gun-barrel in some ways, too.

    Why do we need a "real world representation"? What's wrong with the proper one?

    Like I said: Old school gunbarrel complete with John Barry. That's brilliance, not Bond walking down a corridor.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    and that opening was a good excuse to kick it to the curb for sure.

    I think it was a crap excuse, especially considering it was the 50th anniversary.
    Dragonpol wrote:
    and of course it was a real-world representation of the gun-barrel in some ways, too.

    Why do we need a "real world representation"? What's wrong with the proper one?

    Like I said: Old school gunbarrel complete with John Barry. That's brilliance, not Bond walking down a corridor.

    Listen to thelivingroyale folks. On this issue the guy is a walking common sense machine.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Listen to thelivingroyale folks. On this issue the guy is a walking common sense machine.

    Oh yeah.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    and that opening was a good excuse to kick it to the curb for sure.

    I think it was a crap excuse, especially considering it was the 50th anniversary.
    Dragonpol wrote:
    and of course it was a real-world representation of the gun-barrel in some ways, too.

    Why do we need a "real world representation"? What's wrong with the proper one?

    Like I said: Old school gunbarrel complete with John Barry. That's brilliance, not Bond walking down a corridor.

    It's feels like overdone familiarity to me. I love that the films have backed away from some of the franchise's long-running elements and dared to do something new with the opening shots for once. Skyfall's opening shot didn't need the gun barrel, and it's better off without the tired old thing.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Skyfall's opening shot didn't need the gun barrel, and it's better off without the tired old thing.

    You are dead to me.

    LOL. I need to stop. JK.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    chrisisall wrote:
    Skyfall's opening shot didn't need the gun barrel, and it's better off without the tired old thing.

    You are dead to me.

    LOL. I need to stop. JK.

    Nah, it's cool. I've heard zombie life is interesting.
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 11,189
    I personally don't see why a gunbarrel is so important to fans. Yes it might be nice to see a traditional gunbarrel at the beginning of a Bond film again but it's not the be-all and end-all.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    edited December 2013 Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I personally don't see why a gunbarrel is so important to fans. Yes it might be nice to see a traditional gunbarrel at the beginning of a Bond film again but it doesn't automatically make a film better.

    That's basically how I feel; I'm indifferent about it. Some people make such a stink about it even though it has no relation to the film's plot or characters (the stuff that actually matters), and is merely an aesthetic addition. Placing the gun barrel at the beginning of the film is actually on some people's Bond 24 wish lists, which always gives me a chuckle. There are so many more important things to be worried about that actually revolve around important elements of the film than that.

    The Craig era found new ways to incorporate an outdated element of the films (the gun barrel) and used it to help tell the story in a new way, like when the gun barrel leads from the bathroom fight in CR to the stylish opening titles. It was actually used to present and move along the story, and didn't appear as a short and overdone clip at the beginning of the film like usual. QoS and Skyfall went on to show that the gun barrel isn't even needed at all, providing us with two of the greatest Bond openings in recent memory that were clever, stylish and original.
  • RC7RC7
    Posts: 10,512
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I personally don't see why a gunbarrel is so important to fans. Yes it might be nice to see a traditional gunbarrel at the beginning of a Bond film again but it's not the be-all and end-all.

    See, I think it should be the anti-barrel band offering up the justification, not the other way around. You wouldn't remove the crawl from the opening of a Star Wars movie, so why the gunbarrel? I get the idea behind CR, but since then there's been no excuse, for me. I always got a buzz sitting in the theatre waiting for it, waiting for the orchestration of the theme, the walk, the moment you know you're about to head back into that world again, but this time it's a new escapade. I just don't get how one could feel so indifferent to such an indelible and iconic moment of cinema. I think it's too easy to take these things for granted. The fact it's short is irrelevant to me. It holds easily as much weight as the title sequence when it comes to components of the series. I think it's the director's duty to build his opening shot around it.

  • edited December 2013 Posts: 11,189
    RC7 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I personally don't see why a gunbarrel is so important to fans. Yes it might be nice to see a traditional gunbarrel at the beginning of a Bond film again but it's not the be-all and end-all.

    See, I think it should be the anti-barrel band offering up the justification, not the other way around. You wouldn't remove the crawl from the opening of a Star Wars movie, so why the gunbarrel? I get the idea behind CR, but since then there's been no excuse, for me. I always got a buzz sitting in the theatre waiting for it, waiting for the orchestration of the theme, the walk, the moment you know you're about to head back into that world again, but this time it's a new escapade. I just don't get how one could feel so indifferent to such an indelible and iconic moment of cinema. I think it's too easy to take these things for granted. The fact it's short is irrelevant to me. It holds easily as much weight as the title sequence when it comes to components of the series. I think it's the director's duty to build his opening shot around it.

    I suppose that's a fair point but bear in mind that a lot of crap Bond movies feature this iconic moment too. I don't think it necessarily makes or breaks a film. IMO a cool PTS/title song builds more momentum and anticipation overall.

    (also the crawl in Star Wars actually offers a bit of story explanation - the gunbarrel is merely superficial).
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I personally don't see why a gunbarrel is so important to fans. Yes it might be nice to see a traditional gunbarrel at the beginning of a Bond film again but it doesn't automatically make a film better.

    That's basically how I feel; I'm indifferent about it. Some people make such a stink about it even though it has no relation to the film's plot or characters (the stuff that actually matters), and is merely an aesthetic addition. Placing the gun barrel at the beginning of the film is actually on some people's Bond 24 wish lists, which always gives me a chuckle. There are so many more important things to be worried about that actually revolve around important elements of the film than that.

    The Craig era found new ways to incorporate an outdated element of the films (the gun barrel) and used it to help tell the story in a new way, like when the gun barrel leads from the bathroom fight in CR to the stylish opening titles. It was actually used to present and move along the story, and didn't appear as a short and overdone clip at the beginning of the film like usual. QoS and Skyfall went on to show that the gun barrel isn't even needed at all, providing us with two of the greatest Bond openings in recent memory that were clever, stylish and original.

    Honestly looking at the last 3 bond films it makes me think that the producers are scared to have any classic elements in their bond films anymore...its like they dont want the cliche's which is wrong because James Bond series should have cliches its what makes it a BOND FILM...

    Each Gunbarrel gives a preview of what the bond film is about
    For Example:
    Dr No- Beginning of The Adventure/Series
    From Russia with Love- A Hitchockian Feel of watching over your back
    Goldfinger- Sleek and Smooth with a twang of excitement
    Thunderball- Cemented feel that Bond is firmly established
    You Only Live Twice- Exotic Japanese feel
    On Her Majesty's Secret Service- Brand New Chapter, New Bond New Feel, Traditional English
    Diamonds are Forever- a rather camp bombast theme- you can almost hear the texan
    Live and Let Die- like something is going down, groovy 70s feel- new decade
    Man with Golden Gun- Reestablishing Bond, classic with new feel, the air of 70's campness
    Spy who loved me- rushed 70's guitar feel
    Moonraker- Jaws (the shark), a feeling of trouble, over the top feel
    For Your Eyes Only- New Decade, a sense of underwater
    Octopussy- Traditional Bond Feeling with Indian instrument feel (triangle)
    View to a Kill- rush to finish the end
    The Living Daylights- a last hurrah, like time is catching up
    Licence to Kill- Like the biggest adventure or mission is going to happen
    Goldeneye- a sleek feel into the 90s, the stealth of the mission
    Tommorow Never Dies- a feel of the classic bond- almost flippant to the charater
    The World is Not Enough- Countdown to the end, like a race against time, almost feels like an end of the classic era feel
    Die Another Day-Over the top, bombastic, trying to fit in with the younger generation fails
    Everything or Nothing- Bombastic, feels like the end of Brosnans tenture
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    edited December 2013 Posts: 7,314
    Since we've eliminated the gun barrel, why even have the PTS anymore? Let's just go straight into the opening titles.
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