Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • Posts: 2,400
    I unfortunately find all the Felixes awful except Hedison and Wright.
    I think that's because they've been the only two actors so far given scripts that actually let them develop and deepen the character of Felix.

    It's an actor fault for me. Hedison is given less to do in LALD than all the others except Terry and maybe Lord, yet I think he was just as fantastic there as he was in LTK.
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 11,189
    I unfortunately find all the Felixes awful except Hedison and Wright.
    I think that's because they've been the only two actors so far given scripts that actually let them develop and deepen the character of Felix.

    It's an actor fault for me. Hedison is given less to do in LALD than all the others except Terry and maybe Lord, yet I think he was just as fantastic there as he was in LTK.

    Personally I wouldn't call Hedison a great actor. He has some good moments but there are times in LTK when his peformance is questionable.

    He is 1000x better than Terry though (jesus he was bad).
  • Posts: 9,730
    I think license to Kill is seriously underrated.
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Risico007 wrote:
    I think license to Kill is seriously underrated.

    I think LTK is a solid film (I enjoyed it the last time I re-watched it) but not as good as some fans say. It's too brutal and "American thriller" like.
  • I unfortunately find all the Felixes awful except Hedison and Wright.
    I think that's because they've been the only two actors so far given scripts that actually let them develop and deepen the character of Felix.

    It's an actor fault for me. Hedison is given less to do in LALD than all the others except Terry and maybe Lord, yet I think he was just as fantastic there as he was in LTK.

    What's wrong with Jack Lord's version of Felix? He's calm, cool, collected, relatively useful, and fits Fleming's description of the character as well as anybody.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Risico007 wrote:
    I think license to Kill is seriously underrated.

    I think it gets far too much credit as it is. There is nothing special about this movie that makes it a 007 movie. The year it got released had less gnereic actioners than LTK.
    And Miami Vice had done the drugsangle better, more stylish and better camerawork and music.

  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,448
    My controversial opinion:
    I think the Q scenes in LTK were mostly a mistake. They undermine the serious tone that the film tries to keep going. It's never a good thing to have Bond go out on a serious vendetta using... explosive toothpaste? Being helped by Q dressed as a local peasant mopping the street with a broomstick with a hidden mike? As if LTK's universe accidentally collided with that of CR67. I love LTK, minus the Q scenes.
  • DarthDimi wrote:
    My controversial opinion:
    I think the Q scenes in LTK were mostly a mistake. They undermine the serious tone that the film tries to keep going. It's never a good thing to have Bond go out on a serious vendetta using... explosive toothpaste? Being helped by Q dressed as a local peasant mopping the street with a broomstick with a hidden mike? As if LTK's universe accidentally collided with that of CR67. I love LTK, minus the Q scenes.

    I love the Q scenes. It's good to see him and Bond spend time with each other and have a non-adversarial relationship, and I also like that it keeps us within the Bond universe. That's the thing, to me, about Licence to Kill. It takes place in a different, grittier sort of place, but it's still definitely identifiable as the Bond universe.

    That's actually an interesting parallel between Licence to Kill and Skyfall. LTK keeps the structure of Bond, but it changes the people and location, whereas SF changes the structure but keeps the same kinds of people and locations.
  • DarthDimiDarthDimi Behind you!Moderator
    Posts: 23,448
    Interesting point there, @Soundofthesinners. It will take some time for me though to cope with Q in this film. He always struck me as a loyal, always playing it by the rules servant of Her Majesty. To have him break protocol like this and assist Bond on what is obviously a clandestine mission, no less because Moneypenny insisted on it, is ridiculous in my book. It's a move that could plausibly work in a Bond film that doesn't take itself too seriously. LTK, however, takes itself very seriously. Why then not stay on that track?

  • edited December 2013 Posts: 11,189
    DarthDimi wrote:
    My controversial opinion:
    I think the Q scenes in LTK were mostly a mistake. They undermine the serious tone that the film tries to keep going. It's never a good thing to have Bond go out on a serious vendetta using... explosive toothpaste? Being helped by Q dressed as a local peasant mopping the street with a broomstick with a hidden mike? As if LTK's universe accidentally collided with that of CR67. I love LTK, minus the Q scenes.

    I must admit its difficult to imagine the Q of Thunderball eventually deciding to "drop round" while on leave. Maybe age softened him a bit.

    In reality Q probably wouldn't risk his job to help a rogue agent. The scenes were more fan service.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    It's why I think Lazenby is the closest to Fleming. He seems vulnerable and much less cold than the others.
    It's also one of the reasons why I think that Sean Connery could've ruined OHMSS if he'd returned.
    Good points. But then @thelivingroyale, your posts are always of a high calibre.
    B-)
  • Posts: 14,799
    DarthDimi wrote:
    Interesting point there, @Soundofthesinners. It will take some time for me though to cope with Q in this film. He always struck me as a loyal, always playing it by the rules servant of Her Majesty. To have him break protocol like this and assist Bond on what is obviously a clandestine mission, no less because Moneypenny insisted on it, is ridiculous in my book. It's a move that could plausibly work in a Bond film that doesn't take itself too seriously. LTK, however, takes itself very seriously. Why then not stay on that track?

    I agree. I always felt Q was there because he had to be there. It would have been more interesting to see him, I don't know, giving equipment to the station agents to capture Bond, or something of the sort.
  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    DarthDimi wrote:
    My controversial opinion:
    I think the Q scenes in LTK were mostly a mistake. They undermine the serious tone that the film tries to keep going. It's never a good thing to have Bond go out on a serious vendetta using... explosive toothpaste? Being helped by Q dressed as a local peasant mopping the street with a broomstick with a hidden mike? As if LTK's universe accidentally collided with that of CR67. I love LTK, minus the Q scenes.

    Honestly without Q the movie wouldnt feel like a Bond Film- i think Q helped Bond in more ways than one- if anything it improves the relationship between the two charaters in a film where Bond has gone renegade and is alone- he is the person to never give up on him and so yeah i find that heartwarming in LTK

  • 002002
    Posts: 581
    Here is a controverisal opinion:

    When Bond was rebooted back in 2005/6 The Producers wanted to go back to Fleming's Bond

    In Reality they shifted far away with it

    i mean the race change of Moneypenny and Felix Leiter (Not being Racist but the books state that both Moneypenny and Felix (who should have been texian) are Cacuasian and the physical description of Bond...
  • 002 wrote:
    Here is a controverisal opinion:

    When Bond was rebooted back in 2005/6 The Producers wanted to go back to Fleming's Bond

    In Reality they shifted far away with it

    i mean the race change of Moneypenny and Felix Leiter (Not being Racist but the books state that both Moneypenny and Felix (who should have been texian) are Cacuasian and the physical description of Bond...

    Fleming's Bond has less to do with physical appearance than the way the characters are portrayed. I don't even see the big deal about recasting characters to actors of different races (although I'm befuddled by the people who claim it's racist to oppose casting a black actor in an originally white role, and then turn around and claim it's racist to cast a white actor in an originally black role).
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    It's why I think Lazenby is the closest to Fleming. He seems vulnerable and much less cold than the others.

    It's also one of the reasons why I think that Sean Connery could've ruined OHMSS if he'd returned.

    Winner of the Wizard's post of the day award.
  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    It's why I think Lazenby is the closest to Fleming. He seems vulnerable and much less cold than the others.

    It's also one of the reasons why I think that Sean Connery could've ruined OHMSS if he'd returned.

    Winner of the Wizard's post of the day award.

    Where would that go on the shelf? Next to the Razzies?
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited December 2013 Posts: 17,687
    DarthDimi wrote:
    My controversial opinion:
    I think the Q scenes in LTK were mostly a mistake.
    Disagree sir- they soften the harsh edge of the rest of the film. And too much Desmond is not possible IMO. ;)
  • Posts: 112
    Well... Allons-y!
    1. Licence To Kill is by far my favourite Bond film. Dalton is the best Bond. Pam is by far one of my favourite Bond girls (Vesper takes that spot). Love the Bond going rogue idea. Q makes one of his best appearances (His best is the Q Branch scene in TLD). Lupe is well used. Krest's death still astounds me.Etc.Etc.ETC. Best Bond.
    2. I like DAF, TMWTGG, MR, and QOS (a little bit).
    3. I feel Sean Connery is a bit overrated.
    4. Brosnan kinda killed Bond for me at some moments
    5. I hate FYEO because it's slow, lame music (I usually love Bill Conti), Delicatessen in stainless steel, etc.
    But my absolute most controversial opinion is...
    6. I bloody hate GOLDENEYE! Hate villains, hate the girls, lame plot, hate Brosnan, Sean Bean did nothing for me, I have several other rants but I'm trying to keep this PG! I'm sorry Calvin Dyson! This is just a horrible film!

    Well... Au Revoir
  • Creasy47Creasy47 In Cuba with Natalya.Moderator
    Posts: 40,371
    @ohfilms1, numbers 3 and 6 are absolutely controversial to me.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    @ohfilms1, congratulations on VERY controversial #'s 3, 4 & 6. =D>
  • ohfilms1 wrote:
    Well... Allons-y!
    1. Licence To Kill is by far my favourite Bond film. Dalton is the best Bond. Pam is by far one of my favourite Bond girls (Vesper takes that spot). Love the Bond going rogue idea. Q makes one of his best appearances (His best is the Q Branch scene in TLD). Lupe is well used. Krest's death still astounds me.Etc.Etc.ETC. Best Bond.
    2. I like DAF, TMWTGG, MR, and QOS (a little bit).
    3. I feel Sean Connery is a bit overrated.
    4. Brosnan kinda killed Bond for me at some moments
    5. I hate FYEO because it's slow, lame music (I usually love Bill Conti), Delicatessen in stainless steel, etc.
    But my absolute most controversial opinion is...
    6. I bloody hate GOLDENEYE! Hate villains, hate the girls, lame plot, hate Brosnan, Sean Bean did nothing for me, I have several other rants but I'm trying to keep this PG! I'm sorry Calvin Dyson! This is just a horrible film!

    Well... Au Revoir

    agree with 1, definitely. LTK is not my favorite but in my top 5 (ahead of GF!!)
  • Posts: 2,400
    LTK is behind only OHMSS, TLD and CR for me.

    Also Brosnan killed Bond for me at times, too.
  • edited December 2013 Posts: 11,189
    ohfilms1 wrote:
    Well... Allons-y!
    1. Licence To Kill is by far my favourite Bond film. Dalton is the best Bond. Pam is by far one of my favourite Bond girls (Vesper takes that spot). Love the Bond going rogue idea. Q makes one of his best appearances (His best is the Q Branch scene in TLD). Lupe is well used. Krest's death still astounds me.Etc.Etc.ETC. Best Bond.
    2. I like DAF, TMWTGG, MR, and QOS (a little bit).
    3. I feel Sean Connery is a bit overrated.
    4. Brosnan kinda killed Bond for me at some moments
    5. I hate FYEO because it's slow, lame music (I usually love Bill Conti), Delicatessen in stainless steel, etc.
    But my absolute most controversial opinion is...
    6. I bloody hate GOLDENEYE! Hate villains, hate the girls, lame plot, hate Brosnan, Sean Bean did nothing for me, I have several other rants but I'm trying to keep this PG! I'm sorry Calvin Dyson! This is just a horrible film!

    Well... Au Revoir

    It's an ok scene but do you REALLY think it beats the one in GF, or even the very first one in FRWL?

    If you do that certainly is controversial. For me Caroline "Wooden Schoolgirl Imitator" Bliss ruins that sequence (sorry I'm sure she's a nice lady in real life but I can't stand her Moneypenny).
  • 002 wrote:
    Here is a controverisal opinion:

    When Bond was rebooted back in 2005/6 The Producers wanted to go back to Fleming's Bond

    In Reality they shifted far away with it

    i mean the race change of Moneypenny and Felix Leiter (Not being Racist but the books state that both Moneypenny and Felix (who should have been texian) are Cacuasian and the physical description of Bond...
    I don't for one minute see how that marks a huge shift away from Fleming. I think Craig's 007 is unquestionably a contender for the closest Bond to the Fleming original the series has ever had. The fact some of the supporting players around him are now black is pretty irrelevant.

    On a similar note, a potentially controversial opinion of mine - I would have no problem with a black 007, so long as the move was made for the right reasons (i.e. they found a great actor for the part who happened to be black, rather than casting an actor just because he is black).
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    LeighBurne wrote:
    002 wrote:
    Here is a controverisal opinion:

    When Bond was rebooted back in 2005/6 The Producers wanted to go back to Fleming's Bond

    In Reality they shifted far away with it

    i mean the race change of Moneypenny and Felix Leiter (Not being Racist but the books state that both Moneypenny and Felix (who should have been texian) are Cacuasian and the physical description of Bond...
    I don't for one minute see how that marks a huge shift away from Fleming. I think Craig's 007 is unquestionably a contender for the closest Bond to the Fleming original the series has ever had. The fact some of the supporting players around him are now black is pretty irrelevant.

    On a similar note, a potentially controversial opinion of mine - I would have no problem with a black 007, so long as the move was made for the right reasons (i.e. they found a great actor for the part who happened to be black, rather than casting an actor just because he is black).

    Here we go again. Religion last week, black Bond this week - it's always fun to revisit these topics and see how long it takes for them to descend into acrimony.
  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited December 2013 Posts: 13,882
    002 wrote:
    Here is a controverisal opinion:

    When Bond was rebooted back in 2005/6 The Producers wanted to go back to Fleming's Bond

    In Reality they shifted far away with it

    i mean the race change of Moneypenny and Felix Leiter (Not being Racist but the books state that both Moneypenny and Felix (who should have been texian) are Cacuasian and the physical description of Bond...

    More importantly, I don't think Craig is anything like Fleming's Bond. His character is nothing more than a blatant rip-off of Jason Bourne, imco.
  • Posts: 7,653
    002 wrote:
    Here is a controverisal opinion:

    When Bond was rebooted back in 2005/6 The Producers wanted to go back to Fleming's Bond

    In Reality they shifted far away with it

    i mean the race change of Moneypenny and Felix Leiter (Not being Racist but the books state that both Moneypenny and Felix (who should have been texian) are Cacuasian and the physical description of Bond...

    More importantly, I don't think Craig is anything like Fleming's Bond. His character is nothing more than a blatant rip-off of Jason Bourne, imco.

    @majorDSmythe that is rather controversial, but I do agree, albeit with both feet dragging. The whole Bourne trilogy were actually very refreshing & original movies something the Bond franchise lacks currently.

  • MajorDSmytheMajorDSmythe "I tolerate this century, but I don't enjoy it."Moderator
    edited December 2013 Posts: 13,882
    I'm just calling it as I see it. After The Bourne Identity, the then current Bond looked like a drunken dad trying to dance at a wedding. So EON went and did a bit of kneading by jamming Bond into the Bourne mould, removing some of the aspects that set Bond apart from other genre characters in the process.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I'm just calling it as I see it. After The Bourne Identity, the then current Bond looked like a drunken dad trying to dance at a wedding. So EON went and did a bit of kneading by jamming Bond into the Bourne mould, removing some of the aspects that set Bond apart from other genre characters in the process.

    I do recognise some of your points in this argument.

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