Controversial opinions about Bond films

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  • edited November 2013 Posts: 3,564
    TWINE features Desmond's Q for the final time, DAD features John's Q for the final time. And so what?

    The nice thing about Desmond's final scene is that it's written as a way of saying goodbye to the audience. It's a touch that no other Bond actor has been allowed, and all the more sweet for that singular quality.
    Although the 'M being captured' storyline was not as good as it should have been (especially when considering what Colonel Sun did with it) to claim its worse than the various crimes against cinema, Bond and Fleming's grave perpetuated by DAD is so absurd as to be beyond ridicule.

    And yet, we manage to ridicule it anyway, and probably will continue to do so.

  • Llewlyn was in every Bond release but one (Live and Let Die) until TWINE, while Cleese only featured twice, and even then started out as Q's assistant, therefore he was only Q for one time. Llewlyn played the role for some 17 releases - there is a big difference. Llewelyn had been a mainstay of the series ever since Bond first came to the screen and it was a very poignant time when we last saw him in TWINE. Cleese's Q was a very forgettable, and short lived character. Only trying to find the right words, but with it, TWINE is a much better viewing experience than the other
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    Llewlyn was in every Bond release but one (Live and Let Die) until TWINE, while Cleese only featured twice, and even then started out as Q's assistant, therefore he was only Q for one time. Llewlyn played the role for some 17 releases - there is a big difference. Llewelyn had been a mainstay of the series ever since Bond first came to the screen and it was a very poignant time when we last saw him in TWINE. Cleese's Q was a very forgettable, and short lived character. Only trying to find the right words, but with it, TWINE is a much better viewing experience than the other

    But two.
  • Posts: 1,310
    Regarding TWINE and DAD:


    And I don't even watch that much Family Guy. For some reason I thought of this after reading the posts up to this point. ;)

    Okay, maybe an overreaction, but both films should go down as misfires in my opinion. I'll throw in my two cents and say that I prefer TWINE, but perhaps only because of that great pre-titles sequence and Valentin. Otherwise, Brosnan was over-dramatic, Richards was...well...you know, Carlyle is terribly wasted, and the whole falling in love/being betrayed by Elektra subplot fell right on its face.

    We all know the problems with Die Another Day. That movie makes me want to look away from the screen more than TWINE does, despite a fairly solid first half.

    Anyway, I don't think it's all too controversial labelling TWINE as Garbage. Sorry, I couldn't resist. :D
  • Seven_Point_Six_FiveSeven_Point_Six_Five Southern California
    edited November 2013 Posts: 1,257
    fjdinardo wrote:
    no no no. It made sense as to why the gunbarrel wasn't in the beginning for CR, QOS, SF, but now they have no more excuses to not have it in the beginning for Bond 24

    I disagree. For QOS and SF, I think the traditional sequences would have worked fine. It could have worked well in CR too, but when taking into consideration that CR started a new continuity and is somewhat of an origin story, I suppose the break in tradition is kind of understandable.

    So for the sake of consistency, I think the remainder of Craig's films should have the sequence at the end, rather than have the sequence bouncing all over the place for Craig's 5 or so films.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 157
    Although the 'M being captured' storyline was not as good as it should have been

    A massive understatement if I ever saw one. It was utter comedy - an unintentional farce from the moment Dench steps off the helicopter.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 6,396
    Although the 'M being captured' storyline was not as good as it should have been

    A massive understatement if I ever saw one. It was utter comedy - an unintentional farce from the moment Dench steps off the helicopter.

    I agree but it's still streets ahead of DAD.

    If invisible cars, SNES style CGI, Rent-a-RoboCop, Mr Kil (the most pointless henchman in any movie. Ever!) & Jinx are deemed less of an "unintentional farce" then I really don't know what it.
  • Although the 'M being captured' storyline was not as good as it should have been

    A massive understatement if I ever saw one. It was utter comedy - an unintentional farce from the moment Dench steps off the helicopter.

    I agree but it's still streets ahead of DAD.

    If invisible cars, SNES style CGI, Rent-a-RoboCop, Mr Kil (the most pointless henchman in any movie. Ever!) & Jinx are deemed less of an "unintentional farce" then I really don't know what it.
    .

    A lot of those are consciously camp and tongue-in-cheek. With the exception of the Colonel/General Moon stuff and Bond's capture/betrayal, nothing in DAD is as earnest as TWINE at its most soapy.

  • Posts: 6,396
    Although the 'M being captured' storyline was not as good as it should have been

    A massive understatement if I ever saw one. It was utter comedy - an unintentional farce from the moment Dench steps off the helicopter.

    I agree but it's still streets ahead of DAD.

    If invisible cars, SNES style CGI, Rent-a-RoboCop, Mr Kil (the most pointless henchman in any movie. Ever!) & Jinx are deemed less of an "unintentional farce" then I really don't know what it.
    .

    A lot of those are consciously camp and tongue-in-cheek. With the exception of the Colonel/General Moon stuff and Bond's capture/betrayal, nothing in DAD is as earnest as TWINE at its most soapy.

    Oh I see. The filmmakers were having a laugh at our expense by making it all tongue in cheek. I guess Tamahori was wetting himself with laughter when he saw the worst CGI ever to appear on film.

    "Yes, that's what I wanted. Special Effects so bad, they come across as camp and tongue in cheek"



  • edited November 2013 Posts: 157
    DAD was Tamawhori trolling Bond fandom. What a wonderful job he did.
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 57
    Some of the silliness in DAD I actually enjoyed. Like the henchman with diamonds in his face. It made no sense, but I actually thought it would've been pretty cool in a better film. Same with him having a Bond-like gadget-laden car. Handled right, that could've been both cool and genuinely amusing. And then there was punching bag sequence at the beginning of the film. ("That'll teach you to lecture me! Get me a new anger management coach.") That genuinely had me laughing pretty hard.

    But so much of the rest of the film just went WAY too far. It might've been OK if it was actually funny, but it wasn't. It was just lame. It was like a four-year-old's interpretation of a Bond movie. The Brosnan films had been getting steadily worse since the wonderful GoldenEye, but they were all at least entertaining. DAD was excruciating.

    And then there was the fact they almost completely eschewed traditional practical effects - one of the linchpins of the series - for masses and masses of CGI. Seeing Vic Armstrong and his team desperately trying to rescue things with their (typically brilliant) stunt work in the car chase was more depressing than uplifting. I felt sorry for them.
  • Posts: 1,965
    fjdinardo wrote:
    no no no. It made sense as to why the gunbarrel wasn't in the beginning for CR, QOS, SF, but now they have no more excuses to not have it in the beginning for Bond 24

    I disagree. For QOS and SF, I think the traditional sequences would have worked fine. It could have worked well in CR too, but when taking into consideration that CR started a new continuity and is somewhat of an origin story, I suppose the break in tradition is kind of understandable.

    So for the sake of consistency, I think the remainder of Craig's films should have the sequence at the end, rather than have the sequence bouncing all over the place for Craig's 5 or so films.

    I dont. I think Craigs next 2 should have the gunbarrel in the begining. Sam Mendes wanted it in the begining for Skyfall but nixed it because of the Bond lifting a gun in the first scene. So I think for Bond 24 he will put the gunbarrel back in the begining like he wanted to in Skyfall
  • Here's another controversial opinion regarding DAD -- the killer whale should've made it to the screen.
  • Llewlyn was in every Bond release but one (Live and Let Die) until TWINE, while Cleese only featured twice, and even then started out as Q's assistant, therefore he was only Q for one time. Llewlyn played the role for some 17 releases - there is a big difference. Llewelyn had been a mainstay of the series ever since Bond first came to the screen and it was a very poignant time when we last saw him in TWINE. Cleese's Q was a very forgettable, and short lived character. Only trying to find the right words, but with it, TWINE is a much better viewing experience than the other

    And this still has no relevance whatsoever to the quality of TWINE. It is poignant in hindsight only, but was hardly something critics in 1999 would have praised.

  • Although the 'M being captured' storyline was not as good as it should have been

    A massive understatement if I ever saw one. It was utter comedy - an unintentional farce from the moment Dench steps off the helicopter.

    I agree but it's still streets ahead of DAD.

    If invisible cars, SNES style CGI, Rent-a-RoboCop, Mr Kil (the most pointless henchman in any movie. Ever!) & Jinx are deemed less of an "unintentional farce" then I really don't know what it.
    .

    A lot of those are consciously camp and tongue-in-cheek. With the exception of the Colonel/General Moon stuff and Bond's capture/betrayal, nothing in DAD is as earnest as TWINE at its most soapy.

    I don't think they were tongue-in-cheek at all. They were simply awful ideas, atrociously executed.
  • Posts: 6,396
    DAD was Tamawhori trolling Bond fandom. What a wonderful job he did.

    So you've just proved my point about DAD being the worst Bond film ever. Thank you.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    edited November 2013 Posts: 9,117
    Llewlyn was in every Bond release but one (Live and Let Die) until TWINE, while Cleese only featured twice, and even then started out as Q's assistant, therefore he was only Q for one time. Llewlyn played the role for some 17 releases - there is a big difference. Llewelyn had been a mainstay of the series ever since Bond first came to the screen and it was a very poignant time when we last saw him in TWINE. Cleese's Q was a very forgettable, and short lived character. Only trying to find the right words, but with it, TWINE is a much better viewing experience than the other

    And this still has no relevance whatsoever to the quality of TWINE. It is poignant in hindsight only, but was hardly something critics in 1999 would have praised.

    Quite. Does Bernard Lee's passing allow MR to be cut any slack?
  • Llewlyn was in every Bond release but one (Live and Let Die) until TWINE, while Cleese only featured twice, and even then started out as Q's assistant, therefore he was only Q for one time. Llewlyn played the role for some 17 releases - there is a big difference. Llewelyn had been a mainstay of the series ever since Bond first came to the screen and it was a very poignant time when we last saw him in TWINE. Cleese's Q was a very forgettable, and short lived character. Only trying to find the right words, but with it, TWINE is a much better viewing experience than the other

    And this still has no relevance whatsoever to the quality of TWINE. It is poignant in hindsight only, but was hardly something critics in 1999 would have praised.

    Quite. Does Bernard Lee's passing allow MR to be cut any slack?

    Or does it elevate the quality of the film? In both cases, the answer is no.

  • edited November 2013 Posts: 9,770
    Bloodstone is a relatively awesome bond game so is James Bond 007 for gameboy

    Also I have been replaying Batman Begins for ps2 and I have to admit an EA Casino Royale (if they hired the same team as Batman Begins) they might of given us the perfect Bond Game.

    As for films the car chase in Die Another day while amazing would of been far better in the script for Dalton's third film even more so because if I remember correctly the vilians car was a new jaguar and Dalton's Bond was in the old DB5.

    Speaking of DB5's why was it gadget laden in Skyfall I presume bond had the car fitted with gadgets similar to Goldfinger due to some unseen mission but uhm... Sticks out like a sore thumb .
  • Posts: 1,146
    I'd rather watch Majesty's Secret Service than any of the Moore films.
  • Posts: 2,400
    I'd rather watch Majesty's Secret Service than any of the Moore films.

    Most people would. Me included. Not controversial. I'd rather watch it than any of Moore, Brosnan, or Connery's films.
  • Posts: 1,965
    I'd rather watch Majesty's Secret Service than any of the Moore films.

    Ill watch OHMSS over FYEO, TMWTGG, and LALD. But not over MR, TSWLM, OP, AVTAK
  • I'd rather watch Majesty's Secret Service than any of the Moore films.

    That's hardly controversial, at least around here. The only ones you might get some debate over are The Spy Who Loved Me and For Your Eyes Only.
  • To the above, I'd much rather watch LALD, TMWTGG, Moonraker and Octopussy from Moore, than OHMSS on it's own. OHMSS is a great release that has reached legendary status, but it simply doesn't have the fun factor of the other aforementioned titles
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 3,236
    I saw an interesting idea in a Cracked article about making a Bond heist movie. I think it could be cool, even if it does call Dalton's performance charmless. Read it here: http://www.cracked.com/blog/4-great-movie-characters-who-need-to-try-new-genre/
  • edited November 2013 Posts: 12,837
    @Soundofthesinners Don't think that's very controversial, in fact I think it's not a bad idea. I liked the Die Hard idea too. Shame the author has to go and ruin it by slagging off Dalton ;)
  • @Soundofthesinners Don't think that's very controversial, in fact I think it's not a bad idea. I liked the Die Hard idea too. Shame the author has to go and ruin it by slagging off Dalton ;)

    Someone castigated Timothy Dalton ? The man's a fool - or has an issue with his eyes. Guessing never watched The Living Daylights or License to Kill, or maybe any Bond release come to that..

  • Posts: 2,400
    Cracked always have shit on Dalton. It's always disappointed me for how much I otherwise enjoy the site.
  • Cracked always have shit on Dalton. It's always disappointed me for how much I otherwise enjoy the site.

    They could at least do the decent thing and pick on the Lazenator instead.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,690
    Here's one: Enter The Dragon is better than Dr. No.
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