What Was the Last Grand Bond Film?

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  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,691
    Ludovico wrote:
    Only two movies were really about world domination, maybe three if you count YOLT.

    Carver wanted to dominate & subvert World Media, I'd count THAT as World Domination! B-)
  • doubleoegodoubleoego #LightWork
    Posts: 11,139
    The criteria for identifying a grand Bond film is clearly lacking consistency here. Many of the reasons people have given are fair points even though I may not agree with their chosen film to be a grand Bond movie but I voted CR as it essentially had everything a grand Bond movie must have. Emphasis on the word, must. Anyone care to argue why they think CR doesn't fit the bill as a grand Bond movie? (out of curiosity)
  • Posts: 2,483
    1. The score, while perhaps one of Arnold's best, can hardly be described as grand.

    2. The overall tone of the film is simply too dark to lend the necessary grandeur.

    3. There is no large-scale clash of military or paramilitary forces.

    4. The plot is arguably not one of global impact. The plot of a grand film is one that touches on the clash of civilizations, or at the very least, has ramifications that affect huge swaths of the human race. CR lacks that.

    In short, as much as I love CR, I don't think it remotely qualifies as a "grand" Bond film.

  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited July 2013 Posts: 17,691
    doubleoego wrote:
    Anyone care to argue why they think CR doesn't fit the bill as a grand Bond movie? (out of curiosity)
    No exotic transportation devices, no 'big' battles with many bad guys shot/blown up, no final gasoline-fueled explosion of the villain's lair/ship... ;)
  • Posts: 14,840
    chrisisall wrote:
    Ludovico wrote:
    Only two movies were really about world domination, maybe three if you count YOLT.

    Carver wanted to dominate & subvert World Media, I'd count THAT as World Domination! B-)

    In a way yes. But it is not like recreating civilisation after destroying the world.
    1. The score, while perhaps one of Arnold's best, can hardly be described as grand.

    2. The overall tone of the film is simply too dark to lend the necessary grandeur.

    3. There is no large-scale clash of military or paramilitary forces.

    4. The plot is arguably not one of global impact. The plot of a grand film is one that touches on the clash of civilizations, or at the very least, has ramifications that affect huge swaths of the human race. CR lacks that.

    In short, as much as I love CR, I don't think it remotely qualifies as a "grand" Bond film.

    I agree with all this. I think a TB-like grand film could work with the Craig era.
  • TheWizardOfIceTheWizardOfIce 'One of the Internet's more toxic individuals'
    Posts: 9,117
    1. The score, while perhaps one of Arnold's best, can hardly be described as grand.

    2. The overall tone of the film is simply too dark to lend the necessary grandeur.

    3. There is no large-scale clash of military or paramilitary forces.

    4. The plot is arguably not one of global impact. The plot of a grand film is one that touches on the clash of civilizations, or at the very least, has ramifications that affect huge swaths of the human race. CR lacks that.

    In short, as much as I love CR, I don't think it remotely qualifies as a "grand" Bond film.

    But if point 4 is essential how do you reconcile TLD being grand then as you have been doing for most if this thread?

    Koskov's scheme is to sell a plane full of drugs and buy some guns for the Russians. Where's the global impact there? So some more drugs go to America and the Russians shoot the shit out of Afghanistan - who cares?

    Le Chiffre and Quantum are financing terrorist organisations and Le Chiffre is, through Dmitrios, actually organising terror attacks in Western airports. This is far more of a threat than Koskov's grubby little deal to line his own pockets.

    I'm not sure I agree with point 1 either. Maybe it's not Barry but YKMN over the opening titles is epic, and the brass rendition of it during the Ford advert ahem I mean when Bond is driving in the Bahamas is up there with classic Barry and I also think the instrumental version over the shot of the train in Montenegro has the necessarry romance/intrigue to qualify as grand. The scoring of the scene in the shower, the entrance to Venice and Vespers death are also very good.

    And I also would say that to argue CR doesn't 'remotely' qualify as grand is rather far from the mark.
  • ShardlakeShardlake Leeds, West Yorkshire, England
    Posts: 4,043
    I would have to say MR although I do dislike the film quite allot, it was the last Bond film on a large scale which felt like one those type Bond films.

    Whereas the Brosnan so called big epics felt like some generic action film and nothing like a big epic Bond entry.

    I guess TB, YOLT, OHMSSS SWLM would be the others in this category.

    I can see where some would be saying maybe CR but the author of this thread is looking for a grand scheme in the plot as well as globe trotting locations that CR admittedly has got. CR is a small scale in the plot department and more personal whereas all the ones mentioned have a allot at stake, World Domination etc etc.
  • Posts: 2,483
    1. The score, while perhaps one of Arnold's best, can hardly be described as grand.

    2. The overall tone of the film is simply too dark to lend the necessary grandeur.

    3. There is no large-scale clash of military or paramilitary forces.

    4. The plot is arguably not one of global impact. The plot of a grand film is one that touches on the clash of civilizations, or at the very least, has ramifications that affect huge swaths of the human race. CR lacks that.

    In short, as much as I love CR, I don't think it remotely qualifies as a "grand" Bond film.

    But if point 4 is essential how do you reconcile TLD being grand then as you have been doing for most if this thread?

    Koskov's scheme is to sell a plane full of drugs and buy some guns for the Russians. Where's the global impact there? So some more drugs go to America and the Russians shoot the shit out of Afghanistan - who cares?

    Le Chiffre and Quantum are financing terrorist organisations and Le Chiffre is, through Dmitrios, actually organising terror attacks in Western airports. This is far more of a threat than Koskov's grubby little deal to line his own pockets.

    I'm not sure I agree with point 1 either. Maybe it's not Barry but YKMN over the opening titles is epic, and the brass rendition of it during the Ford advert ahem I mean when Bond is driving in the Bahamas is up there with classic Barry and I also think the instrumental version over the shot of the train in Montenegro has the necessarry romance/intrigue to qualify as grand. The scoring of the scene in the shower, the entrance to Venice and Vespers death are also very good.

    And I also would say that to argue CR doesn't 'remotely' qualify as grand is rather far from the mark.

    In the context of the Cold War, which was global and arguably civilizational in scope, the Afghan arms trade was huge and of global import. But I suppose you could say something similar about CR in the post-9/11 era, so I'm willing to partially concede that point. Still, CR lacks the other elements necessary to be classed a grand film and therefore I don't regard it as such.
  • Posts: 7,653
    I think Octopussy would fill the shoes for grand as well as 007 foiled an invasion of Western Europe by route of India.

    Even AVTAK could be considered global as it involved the flooding of silicon valley which would have had considerable consequences for the world.

    GE was certainly grand scheming.

    DAD was stopping an invasion of Korea and starting a war with the rest of world.

    CR a grand scheme of a banker gone wrong for him personaly
    QoS 007 on the trail of the bankers bosses and stopping a coup in some South American country
    SF 007 trying to stop the assassination of M a doing a great job.

    No grand Bond stories for Craig yet, but perhaps that does not fit the era he represents.
  • Posts: 4,762
    I would have to say Tomorrow Never Dies!
  • 4EverBonded4EverBonded the Ballrooms of Mars
    Posts: 12,459
    Yes, I went with TND a couple of pages ago as the last grand Bond film.
  • Posts: 5,634
    It's how anyone wants to define a truly grand or memorable James Bond release. And it's simply not as easy as that

    I thought straight away of Casino Royale, but if you want to go beyond that, you'd be looking at titles such as Goldeneye, The Living Daylights or even Moonraker

    From Russia With Love could be the most Fleming-esque Bond release of them all, but it's not even a personal favorite. Truly great and memorable Bond releases would have to be, On Her Majestys Secret Service, The Spy Who Loved Me, Moonraker, The Living Dayklights, Goldeneye and the aforementioned Casino Royale and From Russia With Love, but it's all about any one individuals opinions
  • echoecho 007 in New York
    Posts: 5,985
    "Grand" is a rather vague word.

    http://www.merriam-webster.com/dictionary/grand

    For me, the last grand one was CR, for the high-stakes card game and the even higher-stakes love story. Before that, probably OHMSS.
  • 00Hero00Hero Banned
    Posts: 121
    Im sorry @Khan but how is any Bond film grand when you still watch them on your crummy vhs. Agree with @echo look at a dictionary. Im sorry but its just my opinion and Skyfall.
  • BennyBenny In the shadowsAdministrator, Moderator
    Posts: 14,886
    By grand, I mean a film that has a broad, expansive scope. A film that has majesty, romance, glory and grandeur, preferably with a sweeping, majestic score? Think Cecil B. DeMille.

    I nominate TLD. It hits all the right notes for a truly grand Bond film. And I sincerely hope we see another grand Bond film very soon.

    Reposted the original post.
    For any having difficulties understanding this thread.
    I'd include TB, YOLT, OHMSS, TSWLM, MR and TLD as grand Bond films.
    At a push GE, TND and possibly CR.
    I suggest those who want to simply shoot down the original posters idea for the thread simply don't post. There are plenty of threads and topics for all to be active in.
  • 00Hero00Hero Banned
    Posts: 121
    Can I pm you please benny. Im really upset.
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 4,622
    Thank you @Benny. I thought @Khan was quite clear enough about what he was after.
  • SharkShark Banned
    edited July 2013 Posts: 348
    I'm not sure I agree with point 1 either. Maybe it's not Barry but YKMN over the opening titles is epic, and the brass rendition of it during the Ford advert ahem I mean when Bond is driving in the Bahamas is up there with classic Barry and I also think the instrumental version over the shot of the train in Montenegro has the necessarry romance/intrigue to qualify as grand. The scoring of the scene in the shower, the entrance to Venice and Vespers death are also very good.

    Ersatz John Barry doesn't really qualify as grand, or even interesting. Also, the scoring of the helicopter shot over the Venetian Lagoon and the finger fetish scene are both ridiculously OTT. One of the things that Arnold's QOS (maybe thanks to Forster's aegis rather than Campbell's) and Newman's SF got right was not to overplay scenes, and use a more understated, ambient approach. Great examples are Mathis's and M's deaths.

    RE: 00Hero. How old are you? 6?
  • edited July 2013 Posts: 2,483
    Nice to see Octobenny and Shark weigh in.
  • 00Hero00Hero Banned
    edited July 2013 Posts: 121
    Old enough that I wont rise to your bait Shark.

    Mean while chaps back on topic in my opinion Dad is grand with the locations, Korea, laser beam ice palace car chase etc. You just got to hold the xbox controller when the Cgi parasurfing comes on and your good to go.
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