Licence to Kill - Is it really that "underrated"?

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  • 0BradyM0Bondfanatic70BradyM0Bondfanatic7 Quantum Floral Arrangements: "We Have Petals Everywhere"
    Posts: 28,694
    BAIN123 wrote:
    If you look closely you can see that Dalton's face looks really digitalised/airbrushed. Craig's looks more authentic.

    Yeah, because that LTK cover is from the new Blu-ray/DVD release of the 50 years of Bond films. Those covers are absolutely atrocious for the most part, and airbrushed/altered to hell. At times the actors look unrecognizable.
  • Posts: 14,799
    BAIN123 wrote:
    If you look closely you can see that Dalton's face looks really digitalised/airbrushed. Craig's looks more authentic.

    LTK looks like a much better movie on this DVD cover, a more Bondian movie.

    I find it interesting that Dalton was frustrated about LTK, to the point that he thought it might be the last James Bond. Anyone has any details about what he thought of the movie as a finished product?
  • All actors have issues in the creative process...in hindsight it always turns out differently. Love this movie...love everything about it and it had the best bond girl, best bond Villian, best truck stunt ever, best Q appearance and best Villian line...launder it.... =))
  • Posts: 11,189
    I think Dalts thought the NEXT one he did would be tha last
  • X3MSonicXX3MSonicX https://www.behance.net/gallery/86760163/Fa-Posteres-de-007-No-Time-To-Die
    Posts: 2,635
    Lol Dalton is looking like a PlayStation 2 character =))
  • Posts: 14,799
    BAIN123 wrote:
    I think Dalts thought the NEXT one he did would be tha last

    I thought he meant LTK itself. Funny, it seems the actor often seems dissatisfied with the second Bond movie they made: it was the case of Brosnan who thought TND was not as good as GE and Craig with QOS. What did Moore think of TMWTGG? I know Sean Connery considered FRWL his favorite, but this seems to be the exception confirming the rule.

    While LTK has a better villain than TLD, I find the plot rather thin and crammed with 80s clichés. Beautiful Bond girls, heck Lupe Lamore is a classic Bond girl IMO, great action scenes, suitably dangerous villain... But I always have the impression of a Miami Vice episode with Bond doing a long cameo.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 11,425
    That cover is awful.

    Like @Ludivico, I thought Dalton was quoted as saying 'I think this might be the last one' during the making of LTK?

    I have never read a proper interview with Dalton about exactly what he felt about his movies. The impression I get from snippets I've read is that he was not particularly keen on LTK. He echoes the comments that DC made after QoS and CR, in saying that he was keen to inject a bit more humour and light heartedness into his third film.

    LTK is an unusual Bond film and people are obviously divided about it. I suspect Dalts has mixed feelings about it as well.

    People often assume that because DC has so much influence now that the actors back then also had a lot of of input on their films. Dalton was given the script for LTK a week or two before filming started. I don't think he had a lot of input into the tone of the movie at all and despite this idea that he was the 'serious' Bond, I don't think he necessarily thought LTK was the right direction to go in. He certainly wanted to get back to Fleming and inject a bit more reality into the character, but I don't think he particularly wanted to take things as far as LTK did. Everything I've read points towards him wanting his third to be more in the style of TLD.

    The other thing were the financial difficulties at the time. LTK was not even filmed at Pinewood, which I think adds to the sense of it being a very different Bond. The cast and crew must have felt the difference as well - like being thrown out of your home. I believe the studio was squeezing the budget the absolute minimum as well.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    Posts: 13,350
    Dalton was candid in a 1989 magazine interview on the state of affairs:

    "My feeling is this will be the last one. I don`t mean my last one. I mean the end of the whole lot. I don`t speak with any real authority, but it`s sort of a feeling I have. Sorry!".

    http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_17_intro.php3
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Samuel001 wrote:
    Dalton was candid in a 1989 magazine interview on the state of affairs:

    "My feeling is this will be the last one. I don`t mean my last one. I mean the end of the whole lot. I don`t speak with any real authority, but it`s sort of a feeling I have. Sorry!".

    http://www.mi6-hq.com/sections/articles/bond_17_intro.php3

    Yeah I've heard that quote before. Kind of a shame really that he thought that way. Times must have been difficult. The more I think about it, the more I wonder whether Dalton had a bit of a "take it or leave it" attitude to the whole thing. At least Craig was like: "We're going to do more" and trying to stay positive. I suppose the situation was worse in '89.
  • Samuel001Samuel001 Moderator
    edited March 2013 Posts: 13,350
    He never to me, seemed to care about the fame or money really, so I would think he did have a 'take it or leave it' approach to the whole thing. I suppose you have to in a way, in case the next film never happens. Craig would love to do another but I can't see him believing it will happen until he's at the press conference, for instance.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Samuel001 wrote:
    He never to me, seemed to care about the fame or money really, so I would think he did have a 'take it or leave it' approach to the whole thing. I suppose you have to in a way, in case the next film never happens. Craig would love to do another but I can't see him believing it will happen until he's at the press conference, for instance.

    Yeah I agree. Though I don't think Craig would say something like "the next one will be the last of the lot"
  • Posts: 11,425
    Dalton must have been effected by the financial trouble in the background.
  • edited March 2013 Posts: 14,799
    Maybe that's why LTK is so riddled with clichés: they were in a tight financial spot, the pressure was high so they had a sort of creative break down: they decided to play it safe with a tried formula, but this was not the Bond formula, it was what was popular at the time. Yes there were Flemings elements, but on the whole the movie used 80s action movies commonplaces.
  • chrisisall wrote:
    ultrabox wrote:
    Just having watched it for the first time in a loooong time, I can't believe how many years I missed out on this gem. I know it gets knocked for not having a Bond feel to it, but I feel like it has everything. I was surprised how far it jumped in my rankings.
    I'm right there with you @ultrabox.

    I'll ditto that ditto to @ ultrabox. I find the film to be very Bondian and it still exhibits many of his usual character traits if you're looking for them, he's just really pissed off and wanted to kill these bastards. It was good to show Bond's darkest side for a change. I believe the character needs a film like this once a decade or so to remind everyone Bond isn't just a suave, womanizing playboy type.

    LTK remains my 3rd favorite Bond film, with TLD in 5th. I was immediately on the Dalton bandwagon after TLD and always for both films.
  • Posts: 112
    I hate to say, but Licence to Kill is my favorite Bond film. Why is that though? Well I love Timothy Dalton as Bond. I love the Dark feel of the film. Sanchez is a more brutal villian than any I've seen in a bond film. Pam Bouvier is one of the greatest Bond Girls ever in my opinon. I love that they got David Hedison to be Felix again which is great. The action scenes are superb. And I love the Michael Kamen score. Myself being a avid Fleming reader, I think that Dalton is the Bond that Fleming wrote (A man who murdered in cold blood), and I could see Fleming writing this as a book... Besides the fact that he had Felix already lost his leg in the Live and Let Die novel. These are my reasonings that this is my favorite Bond Film. Now don't kill me
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 2,483
    I don't think it's underrated at all. It's in virtually everybody's top 10, and makes plenty of top five lists. And that's where it belongs.

    PS--I agree with ohfilms1's praise for LTK. It's steadily crept up my rankings, and with my last viewing, has clearly surpassed TLD in my esteem. A marvelous Bond film. If one of the Daltons is underrated, it's LTK.
  • edited April 2013 Posts: 11,189
    Here's the thing. Fleming's Bond had his darker side but I'm not convinced he was as nasty and brutal as some may believe. To quote Dalton:

    "The dirtiest, meanest, nastiest, brutalist hero...we'd ever seen"

    Really?

    Kermin Bay once described Bond as "too soft" and Bond himself had reservations about killing in cold blood. It made him uncomfortable. He had a vengeful streak but it was usually a private matter between him and his enemy. He wouldn't let it effect his job.

    I like LTK but, as I've said before, its too dark for a Bond film. I want a "High flown romanticised charicature" like the adventures Fleming wrote ;)
  • Watched it again last night.

    Such a missed opportunity in many ways. They should have toned down the '80s action' stuff. John Glen was too much in a panic to compete with the 80s action stars. The bar fight scene is ridiculous and the truck action sequence at the end is a bore.

    There are some highlights, which hardly coincidentally are more Bondian, including:

    Casino scene
    On Milton Krest's boat
    Sanchez's Villa

    Bob Peak's rejected artwork was fabulous too.
  • Posts: 14,799
    tomjcull wrote:
    Such a missed opportunity in many ways. They should have toned down the '80s action' stuff. John Glen was too much in a panic to compete with the 80s action stars. The bar fight scene is ridiculous and the truck action sequence at the end is a bore.

    My main problem with it: it looks and feels too much like a generic 80s action movie. Even Bond's motivation, his resignation from MI6, the villain being a drug lord, it is all 80s action movies clichés.
  • Posts: 12,837
    tomjcull wrote:
    the truck action sequence at the end is a bore.

    Licence-to-Kill-Kenworth-truck-wheelie.png

    Yeah, so bloody boring. Felt like falling asleep, especially when he tilted the tanker onto two wheels to dodge a rocket. And the tense stand off which ends with Bond burning Sanchez alive? I-)
  • tomjcull wrote:
    the truck action sequence at the end is a bore.

    Licence-to-Kill-Kenworth-truck-wheelie.png

    I said nothing of the stand-off, but the context is overblown.

    Yeah, so bloody boring. Felt like falling asleep, especially when he tilted the tanker onto two wheels to dodge a rocket. And the tense stand off which ends with Bond burning Sanchez alive? I-)

  • Posts: 11,189
    I agree that the bar fight is silly but the tanker chase is probably the films highlight for me.
  • royale65royale65 Caustic misanthrope reporting for duty.
    Posts: 4,418
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Here's the thing. Fleming's Bond had his darker side but I'm not convinced he was as nasty and brutal as some may believe. To quote Dalton:

    "The dirtiest, meanest, nastiest, brutalist hero...we'd ever seen"

    Really?

    Kermin Bay once described Bond as "too soft" and Bond himself had reservations about killing in cold blood. It made him uncomfortable. He had a vengeful streak but it was usually a private matter between him and his enemy. He wouldn't let it effect his job.

    I like LTK but, as I've said before, its too dark for a Bond film. I want a "High flown romanticised charicature" like the adventures Fleming wrote ;)

    Really, Dalton said that? Hmm, very strange. I usually agree with Dalton

  • edited April 2013 Posts: 11,189
    royale65 wrote:
    BAIN123 wrote:
    Here's the thing. Fleming's Bond had his darker side but I'm not convinced he was as nasty and brutal as some may believe. To quote Dalton:

    "The dirtiest, meanest, nastiest, brutalist hero...we'd ever seen"

    Really?

    Kermin Bay once described Bond as "too soft" and Bond himself had reservations about killing in cold blood. It made him uncomfortable. He had a vengeful streak but it was usually a private matter between him and his enemy. He wouldn't let it effect his job.

    I like LTK but, as I've said before, its too dark for a Bond film. I want a "High flown romanticised charicature" like the adventures Fleming wrote ;)

    Really, Dalton said that? Hmm, very strange. I usually agree with Dalton

    It was on the Everything or Nothing documentary. I think he was perhaps being a little over dramatic and showy there ("BAM BAM BAM BAM BAM").
  • Posts: 2,400
    I seem to recall a tidbit of a recent interview where Dalton held LTK in a relatively higher regard than he did 20 years ago. Satisfied with it, if not quite a fan of it.
  • Posts: 418
    Well i loved LTK the first time that i saw it at the cinema, and i love it just as much, if not more now. I love everything about it. Dalton's Bond, a great villain, nice warm locations, beautiful bond girls, including Pam, who remains in my top 3 best ever bond girls, and Talisa Soto might not have been the best of actresses, but she was very easy on the eye, and she looked every part the classic bond girl in her red casino dress. I love the theme song, Bonds relationship with Q, everything. The only negative i will say is that i always get sad when Bond and Pam are in the pool at the end, and 'If you asked me to' starts to play, because i know i would have loved to see Dalton do at least one more....but LTK is one of my favourite Bond films..
  • Posts: 686
    Ludovico wrote:
    Maybe that's why LTK is so riddled with clichés: they were in a tight financial spot, the pressure was high so they had a sort of creative break down: they decided to play it safe with a tried formula, but this was not the Bond formula, it was what was popular at the time. Yes there were Flemings elements, but on the whole the movie used 80s action movies commonplaces.

    Bingo!

  • RikRik Southend
    Posts: 67
    DarthDimi wrote:
    <blockquote rel="DaltonCraig007"><blockquote rel="zebrafish">And I never warmed to the truck action sequence, which is so un-Bondish because too many movies had already featured "truck action" before. </blockquote>

    @-) That was one of the greatest stunt in the franchise... And a prime example of Bond bad-assery !!</blockquote>

    I have but one thing to say about this:
    http://www.motifake.com/image/demotivational-poster/0905/timothy-dalton-james-bond-timothy-dalton-daniel-craig-badass-demotivational-poster-1242459332.jpg

    I'm a huge Dalton fan and LTK is my favourite film not just of his but of the entire series! And the truck sequence is Tremendous!!!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,687
    Tim's one-two punch made Craig's Bond possible.
    LTK rocks so hard, diamonds seem soft.
  • Posts: 2,483
    chrisisall wrote:
    Tim's one-two punch made Craig's Bond possible.
    LTK rocks so hard, diamonds seem soft.

    Hey, hey, now. Just because you love LTK doesn't mean you have to slag off on DAF!



    ;)
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