Brad Whitaker and General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
edited October 2017 in Bond Movies Posts: 18,217
What are our collective thoughts on these two villains - 'Major' Brad Whitaker, arms dealer and the KGB General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights?

Are either of them convincing as credible James Bond villains. As there are two 'big bads' here, does the Bond villainy get rather diluted as a result. There was a similar experiment with Prince Kamal Khan and General Orlov in Octopussy, but that seemed to work better and Khan probably had more screen-time than Orlov did.

I think that Koskov comes across as one of the more cultured and less barbarian of the James Bond villains - perhaps even too much of a light touch while Whitaker is under-used, but he does have a brilliant fight scene with Bond at the end. Necros makes up for the lack of menace from the big two villains, but he's dispatched before the final act.

Are Whitaker/Koskov of the Stromberg school of Bond villainy?

I'd love to hear your thoughts....
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Comments

  • Posts: 2,151
    They're pretty weak when compared to other bond villains. Theyre not super clever industrialists (Stromberg, Drax, and to a certain extent Sanchez), nor are they physically imposing (Red Grant, Silva, Remard etc).

    Theire style of villainy fits in with the overall more serious tone of TLD. I like the way they're portrayed, especially Koskov, and Bond and Whitaker do have a great gunfight at the end - I especially like Bond and Whitaker discussing the battle he's reimagining on the board.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 15,035
    I love the plot of TLD' but always thought it had weak villains. Necros is a good henchman, but the other two lack something. Whitaker especially, he just comes off as a loud mouth American officer that seemed to have been thrown out of the army for incompetence. Koskov was wonderfully cast and Jeroen Krabbé deserved a much better character than what he got. Koskov was scheming, but he should have been more ruthless. I think it doesn't help that he passes himself as a scared defector at the beginning, a bit of a buffoon. Yes, it was just an act, but I felt that the character never recovered.

    And sorry for the double post.
  • Posts: 2,341
    Like most of you, I liked TLD but the villains....
    Koskov is just too happy go lucky and we never see any of his menace until the scene where he turns Kara over to the horney jailer. It just seemed so out of character for this easy going Georgi Koskov we had come to love up to this point.

    Brad Whitaker is most interesting and obviously disturbed but he suffers from not being able to leave his "imprint" on the picture. Way too little screen time for this psychotic man.
  • Posts: 15,035
    Maybe Whittaker was miscast but (relatively) well written and Koskov was poorly written by brilliantly cast? Krabbé could have played Blofeld, when he was in his late 40s. He was a magnificently menacing Handel in Farinelli.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,217
    Ludovico wrote:
    Maybe Whittaker was miscast but (relatively) well written and Koskov was poorly written by brilliantly cast? Krabbé could have played Blofeld, when he was in his late 40s. He was a magnificently menacing Handel in Farinelli.

    Yes, you may have a good point there...
  • I never found Joe Don Baker (as Whitaker), that credible as a Bond villain, there simply wasn't enough menace or character, that simply followed on from Julian Glover and Kurt Jurgens before him. I just found his Jack Wade character in subsequent releases equally shallow

    Koskov was a fun character, more humor than anything else, although Krabbe has done some serious work elsewhere such as No Mercy. It's a shame, Daylights, for such a powerful and commanding release, with the superlative Dalton, was let down by having such aforementioned characters that simply didn't offer much
  • Major_BoothroydMajor_Boothroyd Republic of Isthmus
    Posts: 2,722
    I really like Koskov - his rapport with Dalton is very good, especially his scene with the hamper from harrods and the banter with 007 on the plane. He's unique in his manipulative sliminess. Whittaker is the let down because he should have been the big villain and as well shot as the final battle is it is pretty anti-climatic with little peril for 007 to overcome.
  • Posts: 1,052
    The villans are't exactly memorable but they are a bit different and contrast eachother well.

    Watched this properly for the first time in ages just the other day, never been overly enamoured with it but now I have to say what a cracking film!
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    Whittaker is the let down because he should have been the big villain and as well shot as the final battle is it is pretty anti-climatic with little peril for 007 to overcome.

    I guess I'm in the minority here in that the villains in TLD worked fine for me, and more so since Bond faced such a singularly strong one in the next film.
  • Posts: 7,653
    Personaly I do not care for Krabbe's Koskov, I find him a whiny and unsympathetic character. Krabbe's role in No Mercy was much more menacing to bad they did throw away his skills on such a part.
    I would have prefered Rutger Hauer as a baddie in the 007 franchise because imho he is the vastly better actor of the two Dutch actors. And he would have probably given TD much more game.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    Hauer is a good call!
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 618
    Krabbe is good (it's an interesting performance), but I can definitely see Rutger Hauer in the role, too. That would've been great.

    As Whitaker, I'd replace Joe Don Baker with Lance Henriksen (ALIENS, HARD TARGET, American TV's Millenium).
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,217
    SaintMark wrote:
    Personaly I do not care for Krabbe's Koskov, I find him a whiny and unsympathetic character. Krabbe's role in No Mercy was much more menacing to bad they did throw away his skills on such a part.
    I would have prefered Rutger Hauer as a baddie in the 007 franchise because imho he is the vastly better actor of the two Dutch actors. And he would have probably given TD much more game.

    Interesting casting call there, but you can't have it all, I guess!

  • Posts: 15,035
    The problem with Koskov is that he comes off as weak from the beginning, a scared defector. I know it is an act, but even when he reveals his true nature he never comes off a strong. Sanchez, Mr White and Silva were all three made prisoners, yet they came off as much more menacing. Koskov should have been written as more assertive, less of a buffoon, then he would have been more believable.
  • Some said they think Rutger Hauer would of made a good villain for Bond, but it's something I can't quite envisage, but if it had been possible at the time, and the actor had given off half of the performance and menace of The Hitcher, that really could of worked I feel, but really think it's just a name that maybe doesn't fit in

    Once again, Koskov was all a bit too unrealistic, a humor character, disorganized even. At no time in a viewing of Daylights do you ever feel any threat from the character, and even feel sorry for him more often than not. The same goes with Whitaker. Two wasted opportunities that year to give us some credible villains in an otherwise standout release. Necros was arguably the best of a bad lot for Bond adversaries that year
  • pachazopachazo Make Your Choice
    Posts: 7,314
    I think that both actors did the best job that they could do with the characters. The problem is that no one is afraid of Whitaker so you don't really feel any sense of danger from him. Neither Bond or Pushkin really take him seriously and talk dismissively about him, even to his face. Koskov isn't a bad character but is in no way believable as a big time KGB General. He comes off much better as a smooth talking, slimy politician or something along those lines.
  • Dragonpol wrote:
    What are our collective thoughts on these two villains - 'Major' Brad Whitaker, arms dealer and the KGB General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights. Are either of them convincing as credible James Bond villains. As there are two 'big bads' here, does the Bond villainy get rather diluted as a result. there was a similar experiment with Prince Kamal Khan and General Orlov in Octopussy, but that seemed to work better and Khan probably had more screen-time than Orlov did.

    I think that Koskov comes across as one of the more cultured and less barbarian of the James Bond villains - perhaps even too much of a light touch while Whitaker is under-used, but he does have a brilliant fight scene with Bond ast the end. Necros makes up for tyhe lack of menace from the big two villains, but he's dispatched before the final act.

    Are Whitaker/Koskov of the Stromberg school of Bond villainy?

    I'd love to hear your thoughts....

    Personal fav villain of the series for me is Brad Whitaker. Short scenes or not JDB fine actor too really could have been scripted better. the Afghan scenes just needed his presence maybe rolling up in a special military vehicle etc.

    Here is what maybe could have happened.

    Biggest missed was not giving more screentime to JDB in TLD.

    He could easily have had a few more scenes and there is a fans idea over on CommanderBond. net i want to share here.

    Different Daylights.

    ■1) Defer the Blayden Hall snatch back of Koskov. Instead devote time to Koskov’s persuasion and convincing of SIS that Pushkin has to be taken out as intercut with 2 and 3 below.
    ■2) Cut to Whitaker’s Tangier base where we seem him in huge war chamber eavesdropping on CIA/KGB reaction to escalating spy war (Necros either onscreen or implicitly taking out spies).
    ■3) Cut to a global briefing to the NATO agents intercut with the same scene in the Soviet Union (in unsubtitled Russian) would have been an economically visual storytelling device. The machinations are given context displaying the way Smiert Spionam was affecting the intelligence apparatus, heightening the tension Koskov spoke of.
    ■5) Koskov disappears while under Bond’s protection. Bond should have had the fight in the kitchen, knocking out one of Necros’s helpers. When Bond declines to kill Pushkin, M throws this failure in his face. Plus Bond is at the centre of the best fight in the film.
    ■6) The reveal that Koskov is in league with Whitaker must be a dramatic moment.
    ■7) Koskov and Whitaker extolling their plan to raise funds in Afganistan to fund Necros’ wars of revolution in said huge war chamber in the villa with maps and tin soldiers in Africa, Asia and South America (providing a more dramatic setting for the eerie shoot out at the finale). If there’s one Bond villain who needed his own private army, Whitaker was the man. These guards should be swarming all over the villa, to be taken out by Bond at the end. These wars will be Whitaker’s wars, where he will finally play general with real soldiers and then be a powerful man in those spheres of influence. The money raised is the means to this global threat. This would streamline the need for introducing new elements later (the diamonds, the raw opium would be understood and have context) and could shorten the running time of this already overlong film. Admittedly, some of the mystery element would be lost but Koskov’s duplicity would provide the intrigue
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,217
    Dragonpol wrote:
    What are our collective thoughts on these two villains - 'Major' Brad Whitaker, arms dealer and the KGB General Georgi Koskov in The Living Daylights. Are either of them convincing as credible James Bond villains. As there are two 'big bads' here, does the Bond villainy get rather diluted as a result. there was a similar experiment with Prince Kamal Khan and General Orlov in Octopussy, but that seemed to work better and Khan probably had more screen-time than Orlov did.

    I think that Koskov comes across as one of the more cultured and less barbarian of the James Bond villains - perhaps even too much of a light touch while Whitaker is under-used, but he does have a brilliant fight scene with Bond ast the end. Necros makes up for tyhe lack of menace from the big two villains, but he's dispatched before the final act.

    Are Whitaker/Koskov of the Stromberg school of Bond villainy?

    I'd love to hear your thoughts....

    Personal fav villain of the series for me is Brad Whitaker. Short scenes or not JDB fine actor too really could have been scripted better. the Afghan scenes just needed his presence maybe rolling up in a special military vehicle etc.

    Here is what maybe could have happened.

    Biggest missed was not giving more screentime to JDB in TLD.

    He could easily have had a few more scenes and there is a fans idea over on CommanderBond. net i want to share here.

    Different Daylights.

    ■1) Defer the Blayden Hall snatch back of Koskov. Instead devote time to Koskov’s persuasion and convincing of SIS that Pushkin has to be taken out as intercut with 2 and 3 below.
    ■2) Cut to Whitaker’s Tangier base where we seem him in huge war chamber eavesdropping on CIA/KGB reaction to escalating spy war (Necros either onscreen or implicitly taking out spies).
    ■3) Cut to a global briefing to the NATO agents intercut with the same scene in the Soviet Union (in unsubtitled Russian) would have been an economically visual storytelling device. The machinations are given context displaying the way Smiert Spionam was affecting the intelligence apparatus, heightening the tension Koskov spoke of.
    ■5) Koskov disappears while under Bond’s protection. Bond should have had the fight in the kitchen, knocking out one of Necros’s helpers. When Bond declines to kill Pushkin, M throws this failure in his face. Plus Bond is at the centre of the best fight in the film.
    ■6) The reveal that Koskov is in league with Whitaker must be a dramatic moment.
    ■7) Koskov and Whitaker extolling their plan to raise funds in Afganistan to fund Necros’ wars of revolution in said huge war chamber in the villa with maps and tin soldiers in Africa, Asia and South America (providing a more dramatic setting for the eerie shoot out at the finale). If there’s one Bond villain who needed his own private army, Whitaker was the man. These guards should be swarming all over the villa, to be taken out by Bond at the end. These wars will be Whitaker’s wars, where he will finally play general with real soldiers and then be a powerful man in those spheres of influence. The money raised is the means to this global threat. This would streamline the need for introducing new elements later (the diamonds, the raw opium would be understood and have context) and could shorten the running time of this already overlong film. Admittedly, some of the mystery element would be lost but Koskov’s duplicity would provide the intrigue

    Very interesting, Whitaker1987 - don't get me wrong, I like Whitaker a lot too, it's just he needed more screentime, although Koskov seemed to get more instead, despite Whitaker being the more obviously villainous of the two.
  • The villian is the reason I prefer LTK.

    Koskov didn't intrest me much but Whittaker was really underused I think. That's one of the few problems I have with TLD.

    But then on the other hand we have Necros, who I think more than makes up for it. Although he's more of a henchman, you really get the sense that he's a cold blooded killer.
  • edited January 2013 Posts: 15,035
    Different characters, movies, times and so on, but this is how I would have LOVED to see Krabbe play a Bond villain, just by a few words putting others to their knees, merciless:

  • Interesting thread. I have to say they are definately not up there with the vilianous greats of the series. On reflection it is intesting that TLD is so highly regarded by many (myself included) yet the two vilians are quite average and not perticually memorable.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    edited January 2013 Posts: 17,788
    IMO Bond facing borderline incompetent yet still extremely troublesome foes is an interesting change from would-be world dominating villains with seemingly limitless resources, and as I stated earlier, Sanchez was a MORE than satisfying U-turn from Koskov & Whittaker.
  • Sanchez and Dario. The latter being just as menacing as the former and had an almost equally unnerving screen presence. Del Toro gave a great performance in an early appearance

    If Don Baker had been as good a villain as he was in Charlie Varrick, and Krabbe as before, in No Mercy, it could of been one of the finest James Bond releases ever, even better than it already is

    The ending in Tangiers with Bond at Whitaker's Morrocan retreat was disappointing, and all over too quickly. I would of greatly enjoyed a finale at the Blaydon safe house with the main players that year. Seems a bit of a wasted location. There was plenty of scope for some more fine adventure there, rather than just the brief fight with Green Four and Necros for example. I would of had that over Tangiers at the end without question
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 17,788
    The ending in Tangiers with Bond at Whitaker's Morrocan retreat was disappointing, and all over too quickly.
    That was surprisingly fast. But I liked it for that. I don't want the same exact formula all the time (one of the reasons I like QOS), and besides, we got a drawn out confrontation with the bad guy in the next movie!
  • Baker was much better as an ally I thought, but the character of Koskov was good and quite funny at parts. This is definitely one of my top 5 films in the Bond series but neither of the bad guys, nor the Bond girl would even make top 10 in their respective categories.
  • Posts: 15,035
    STEV1EM4C wrote:
    Baker was much better as an ally I thought, but the character of Koskov was good and quite funny at parts. This is definitely one of my top 5 films in the Bond series but neither of the bad guys, nor the Bond girl would even make top 10 in their respective categories.

    Interesting point. TLD had a strong plot but average characters. Koskov was way too funny, that was the big problem. I thought about it, and I think it would have been better had he kept his general's dignity when he went to the West, instead of being all scared. And then when in England, if he had remained deadly serious instead of being all jovial, kissing Bond on the cheeks, etc. Make him friendly, but not warmly so, in a more distant, reserved, polite way.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,217
    I've been thinking about this one again - especially about Brad Whitaker.

    What sort of uniform does Whitaker wear? Is it of US extraction, I wonder? We do know that he was expelled from West Point for cheating.
  • It's a fictional "dress-up" uniform (no doubt designed by Whitaker), for a non-existent private army.

    And as far as Koscov being "too funny" -- it's an act. He's playing the buffoon somewhat to hoodwink MI6. The real Koscov comes to the fore during the cargo plane flight from Tangier to Afghanistan.
  • DragonpolDragonpol https://thebondologistblog.blogspot.com
    Posts: 18,217
    CraterGuns wrote: »
    It's a fictional "dress-up" uniform (no doubt designed by Whitaker), for a non-existent private army.

    And as far as Koscov being "too funny" -- it's an act. He's playing the buffoon somewhat to hoodwink MI6. The real Koscov comes to the fore during the cargo plane flight from Tangier to Afghanistan.

    So, is the dress-up uniform worn by Whitaker designed to mislead clients that he has a military background when he doesn't really in the conventional sense so they will contract with him to buy arms? A form of misrepresentation to ensure them into a contract with him?
  • Posts: 11,425
    Always quite enjoyed Koskov. A slime ball entirely out for himself. Whitaker - not so much, but he doesn't have too much screen time so not that bothered.
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