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Who Still Has a Difficult Time Getting Into Craig?

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  • 007HallY007HallY
    Posts: 6,312
    I like the priest line. I’d also say the Craig films only really managed to nail M’s dialogue in SF.
    ColonelAdamski wrote: »
    The line from CR that I never understood is the "I'll shoot the camera next time"
    And M says "or yourself"
    I suppose it means that the consequences of Bond breaking into M's flat is, he'd be shot. Is that how others see it?

    I suppose she’s saying Bond may as well just have shot himself so that MI6 wouldn’t have to deal with the fallout caused by his actions. It’s an inelegant line, but in hindsight it’s sort of a ‘just kill yourself’ joke.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,558
    007HallY wrote: »
    I like the priest line. I’d also say the Craig films only really managed to nail M’s dialogue in SF.

    Yeah I don't mind that one: she says body, he says soul: it at least flows and starts from 'body', a usual word in that circumstance. As opposed to 'monk' in CR, which kind of comes out of nowhere and jars (for me, anyway).
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 5 Posts: 3,393
    007HallY wrote: »
    there’s that very strange line about florists (why would a florist ever use the expression ‘we have people everywhere’? It’s so strange, as if it’s trying to be witty but comes off as stilted.
    It's a play on Interflora's old advertising slogan: 'Flowers within hours, worldwide.' They had networks of florists in most countries, so someone in the UK could have flowers delivered to someone in, say, Australia. Have to say, I did understand the quip first time, but then I'm old enough to remember when Interflora used to advertise on tv, so...!
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited November 5 Posts: 6,312
    Venutius wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    there’s that very strange line about florists (why would a florist ever use the expression ‘we have people everywhere’? It’s so strange, as if it’s trying to be witty but comes off as stilted.
    It's a play on Interflora's old advertising slogan: 'Flowers within hours, worldwide.' They had networks of florists in most countries, so someone in the UK could have flowers delivered to someone in, say, Australia. Have to say, I did understand the quip first time, but then I'm old enough to remember when Interflora used to advertise on tv, so...!

    That’s a strange reference. Can’t say I’ve ever gotten it. Surely even then florists can simply deliver anywhere, not that they have people everywhere? I thought the joke was it was a random profession and may as well have been used car salesmen or accountant. Shows what I know I suppose!

    It’s an oddly written scene though. M seems uncharacteristically outwardly shaken, and for some reason the script feels the need to hit us on the head with this on the nose dialogue. It’s very ‘tell, don’t show’ - all this info about how long he’s been M’s bodyguard and all the polygraphs etc. It never even gives us a sense of why he’s done this - is it ideological or is it financial? I’d say ironically all the scene needed was for Bond to have looked around the flat and have said something like ‘nice place for a body guard on MI6’s payroll’ and maybe a brief exchange after, and that would have given us all we needed to know.

    The gags are a bit strange too - why would M have gifted Mitchel an ashtray if he didn’t smoke? Just seems random.
  • sandbagger1sandbagger1 Sussex
    Posts: 1,158
    Yeah, the writers strike did that script no favours.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 5 Posts: 3,393
    M's uncharacteristically phased because she didn't think that an organisation she'd never even heard of would be able to get a grey man so close to her and for so long. Not just infiltrating govt systems by hiding in plain sight, but her personal bodyguard. So where else might they be? She hasn't had time to process the enormity of the implications. Wasn't the ashtray just a rapid nod to signify how Quantum had managed it, though? In the same way that MI6 knew so little about Quantum, M had paid so little attention to Mitchell that she didn't even know that he wasn't a smoker and had just given him some random token 'bloke' present. It's just a quick device to play a micro-macro thing, no? As for Interflora, all their ads used to ram home the fact that they had a global network. But, yes, a viewer would have to be aware of that in order to make best sense of the line.
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited November 5 Posts: 6,312
    It’s not that it’s unreasonable for her to be shaken that a bodyguard close to her was an enemy agent. My issue is how outwardly and artificially she’s showing it. For me it’s a bit uncharacteristic for M. The way I see the character is she’d want to maintain a veneer of control/authority, even in front of Bond. It doesn’t mean the script shouldn’t convey that she’s shaken or losing a bit of control, but the way it’s done for me is far too on the nose and unsubtle (again, the dialogue is very ham fisted). Dench is a fantastic actress who could have easily conveyed all that with the right script and direction.

    The problem with the ash tray bit is that the meaning gets kind of lost because it’s meant to be a knee slapping gag, and the scene never really points out how blind M has been, even if her compliance (not necessarily her blindness) becomes a major story arc. The focus is on this super organisation with people everywhere. It really needed a rewrite in my opinion. Much like the film in general the ideas are there, but it’s not been put together in the best way.
  • VenutiusVenutius Yorkshire
    edited November 5 Posts: 3,393
    007HallY wrote: »
    It’s not that it’s unreasonable for her to be shaken that a bodyguard close to her was an enemy agent. My issue is how outwardly and artificially she’s showing it. For me it’s a bit uncharacteristic for M. The way I see the character is she’d want to maintain a veneer of control/authority, even in front of Bond.
    I think the whole point of M's reaction was to indicate that this unknown organisation is so dangerous that even M is rattled to an unusual extent. But, yes, it is a bit on the nose, so it's possible that that's just me projecting onto an ashtray gag... ;)
  • 007HallY007HallY
    edited November 5 Posts: 6,312
    Venutius wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    It’s not that it’s unreasonable for her to be shaken that a bodyguard close to her was an enemy agent. My issue is how outwardly and artificially she’s showing it. For me it’s a bit uncharacteristic for M. The way I see the character is she’d want to maintain a veneer of control/authority, even in front of Bond.
    I think the whole point of M's reaction was to indicate that this unknown organisation is so dangerous that even M is rattled to an unusual extent. But, yes, it is a bit on the nose, so it's possible that that's just me projecting onto an ashtray gag... ;)

    Oh I definitely agree it’s there or at least that’s a valid interpretation. Just a case of execution!
  • QBranchQBranch Always have an escape plan. Mine is watching James Bond films.
    Posts: 15,453
    Venutius wrote: »
    007HallY wrote: »
    there’s that very strange line about florists (why would a florist ever use the expression ‘we have people everywhere’? It’s so strange, as if it’s trying to be witty but comes off as stilted.
    It's a play on Interflora's old advertising slogan: 'Flowers within hours, worldwide.' They had networks of florists in most countries, so someone in the UK could have flowers delivered to someone in, say, Australia. Have to say, I did understand the quip first time, but then I'm old enough to remember when Interflora used to advertise on tv, so...!
    That's interesting. Interflora logos appear in the Cortina florist in FYEO.
  • chrisisallchrisisall Brosnan Defender Of The Realm
    Posts: 18,016
    GoldenGun wrote: »
    chrisisall wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    Venutius wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    You'd say the humour is gone? Almost the first thing he does with Eve is to joke about the wing mirror. I'm not really seeing this difference I must admit.
    007HallY wrote: »
    I'd still say he retains that humour and wit (I really can't understand the criticism that it's gone in SF frankly - he cracks more one liners in SF than in QOS I'd say).

    Gallows humour ('not a very good one, is it?'). Black humour ('You shot him at point blank range and threw him off a roof' - 'I did my best not to'). I much preferred that to gags like 'Go on, then, eject me' and 'I got into some deep water'. Personal preference, that's all.

    "Waste of good scotch"?

    I understand the intent of the line; I understand the tradition of the sacrificial lamb, but this was a coldness too far for me. Not Craig's fault.....

    Personally I have never been a fan of that line. The Sévérine character isn't handled particularly well imo, and this attempt at a oneliner doesn't help a lot I think.

    Just my two cents, ofc.

    As unpleasant as sacrificial lambs can be in Bond movies, this was especially bad IMO because he was present and conscious and armed and could (apparently) do nothing to save her.
  • MSL49MSL49 Finland
    Posts: 786
    Silva is one of the chilliest villain in this series.
  • LeonardPineLeonardPine The Bar on the Beach
    Posts: 4,564
    slide_99 wrote: »
    I still feel that Craig's tenure is actually two different ones, CR-QOS and SF-NTTD. Even with SP's retcons, I cannot reconcile the character we see in CR/QOS with the one in SF-NTTD. Not only does Bond seem like a completely different person, but the world he inhabits also seems completely different. CR/QOS seems like Bond in the "real world' whereas SF-NTTD feels more like a "what if" fantasy. I'll always give Craig credit for bringing flesh and blood back to Bond, but I don't think I'll ever warm to the thematic 180 that Skyfall took.

    Definitely this. For all it's flash cinematography and direction it's all a bit empty. So, although it's in my top ten, i've never embraced it like CR and QoS. I'm not really a fan of Mendes either.
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