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I must say, I quite like when a first crime lead to the discovery of a bigger crime, when a seemingly small but unpleasant incident leads to a sinister conspiracy. Or even better: when something already sinister and catastrophic happens but leads to something even more grievous.
I know what you mean! Like, you just know that art burglary in a Bind film is going to escalade into a madman wanting to blow up a major city or something.
Might be too close to OP, but how about someone stole the jewels of the crown, Bond is sent on a mission after the thieves, looking also for their potential customers/buyers. Turns out the thieves are not selling the jewels, they're giving them as payment to another criminal for a service (obviously something big, like using a nuke or similar).
I think that would be a good start
I know you're speaking in hest, but you can't define with negatives. Sure, Bond can't find in love every movie, but that doesn't give us anything: you still need to define the kind of relationship (if any) he has with the Bond Girl(s). Betrayal is a pretty wide and at times concept, especially in the espionage world. There's elements of betrayal and double crossing in DN, FRWL, LALD, TLD, LTK, GE and that's at the top of my head. Not quitting is job, that's great, so now what to do with his job once we agree that he won't resign this time?
Very cool! And funny enough, when I read about the heist, I also thought “Bond”!!
I know - I'm pretty sure Bond gets betrayed in some form in most movies! TSWLM, TB, YOLT, DAD, DN, TWINE, OP, to name a few others.
He did tend to fall in love quite a bit in a fair few of the Fleming novels. Honestly, I like a good, tangible relationship between Bond and the leading lady whatever way. Falling in love with two women during the Craig era seems fine for me story wise. Whatever works.
Quitting his job... I guess he does so twice in NTTD/SP and briefly in CR? More than the average for Bond eras perhaps (except OHMSS and I guess NSNA, and both resignations were pretty pathetic by comparison).
I'm sure Bond won't die in the next era. I agree at any rate that he shouldn't do so moving forward... otherwise that was a pretty poor original post ;)
Yes, but I think in the case of a character who has been around as long as James Bond, I can also argue that you can use them as a valid starting point
After 25 movies Bond has probably been through just about every emotional permutation that anyone can imagine, so it can be a matter of deciding which combination of already existing elements in the toolbox to leave out and which to include in the next iteration
There's nothing inherrently wrong with "True Love", "Betrayal" or "Disillusionment" as plot elements, other than that they have featured so prominently during the Craig-Bond era and been recycled often enough in recent times, that I think they are due for a rest.
Sure, Bond should be attracted to women, but not commit to a lifelong relationship for a while. Bond can be mislead by villains and their minions, but not be betrayed by anyone close to him for a while. Bond should have faith in his country and the agency for a change and they can be shown to act in good faith toward him. In the real World not every politician and bureaucrat is self serving and corrupt and sometimes government and civil service can be on the same page, rather than conspiring against each other.
However what is really needed is a story concept which puts the mission front and centre, rather than being merely a hat-rack upon which to hang Bond's personal dramas
Something more compelling than cornering the market in water in Bolivia.
In that regard I felt NTTD was very close, but they alowed the "Grand Scheme" element to be overshadowed and obscured by the "Personal Revenge" element.
I don't know if Bond would get sent on a mission to stop thieves, but I could buy that he might happen across a theft plot as part of his investigations, which then lead to a bigger plan as mentioned above. I do like the idea of a heist being part of it though, it's something which hasn't really been seen much in Bond.
Here's the asterix I'd put to all that practically/for anyone making one of these films: disregard any personal story preference or 'rule' rather than censor yourself or craft a bad Bond film.
That's all it comes down to. Tell the best story you can or indeed think best. A lot of what you've said wouldn't necessarily give us a very good Bond film.
It wouldn't "necessarily" give us a bad Bond film either
Potential plot elements in abstract are neither good or bad
But I think overuse of same elements is less likely to succeed than changing things up
Perhaps we need to clarify what is meant by "betrayal"?
Betrayal is the violation of trust, confidence, or a presumptive contract, resulting in moral and psychological conflict.
Betrayal means "an act of deliberate disloyalty,"
It's not just about lying or misleading, it's about trust and loyalty
How is Bond betrayed in Dr No?
Miss Taro and Prof Dent are enemy agents and never trusted by Bond, so they can't betray him.
Thunderball?
Fiona Volpe uses her womanly wiles to catch Bond off guard, but I don't think there is any suggestion that he ever considered her a trusted associate, so she doesn't betray him.
You Only Live Twice?
The Spy Who Loved Me?
Can you explain for me?
As mentioned above, and as we’re using dictionary definitions, ruling things out is not ‘story ideas’.
If the thieves were to sold something extremely valuable to Britain, not merely financially but culturally and historically, as per the Louvre burglary, I can definitely Bond sent on a mission to find the thieves. Heck, given the commotion of the Louvre burglary, you could add MI5,MI6, Scotland Yard AND some private investigation firms to the mix. It's pretty much what's happening in France right now.
@Seve Miss Taro is 100% a traitor, given that she works for the British Government. You could add that Dent is a traitor to his country. When there's espionage, there's traitors somewhere, at various degrees. FRWL is all about double dealings, sometimes triple dealings.
Sure is and sure has, although, in the case of James Bond, not so much, as he is generally brought in to combat enemys that have already been idenified or suspected, rather than to uncover moles.
However, in my initial post I specified Bond himself being personally betrayed, not the UK or Western civilisation as a whole.
True dat, but, as Ludovico suggested in the beginning, I was being facetious ; )
Not necessarily, for example, if the KGB sends an agent over from Cuba, sets up a cover story and have her apply for a job with the British Government, she is not a traitor. I don't know enough about Miss Taro's background to say one way or the other.
In any case, neither of she or Dent betrays James Bond, which was the meaning my initial comment was intended to convey
And while double dealing and betrayal are not mutually exclusive, they are not the same thing either. There can be double dealing without there being any betrayal.
Helga in YOLT gains Bond’s trust then tries to kill him. And of course there’s a lot of trust issues between Bond and Anya.
Honestly though, if it’s a preference that you don’t want see someone close to Bond in the story betray him (I guess like Vesper in this case) or for the story not have any themes of betrayal (if that’s even possible) then whatever. I’d say there are so many potential stories that could be great for a Bond film that have that basic story beat/something technically similar, and it’s stupid to limit oneself like that when crafting a story.
Anyway, this is a very boring conversation for how interesting this thread is 😂
I don't think Bond ever trusts Helga. As with many people Bond encounters, he goes along with them to some extent, to find out information in order to further his mission.
When she turns out to be a villain it's no real surprise to him.
Anya is a Russian spy and Bond knows it from the get go, so the issue of betrayal never arises
I don't have anything against betrayal as a plot element, I'm just saying I don't like any plot element to be over used
Vesper's betrayal is fine with me, less happy with the Madeleine Swann rerun of the same scenario (even if, in the end, she hasn't really betrayed him, he spends much of the movie behaving as if she has) and if they went that route again in Bond 26 I would roll my eyes
That must be why Fleming only used the romantic personal betrayal theme once
Yes, enough is enough
Please carry on developing the heist as an ancilliary plot element idea
Yes, that’s where the drama comes from. Bond films are called Bond films because they star one character who we watch going through stuff. He’s basically a spy, and fictional spies get betrayed now and again.
You’re complaining it’s been overused, but in the last twenty years, betrayal, according to your very tight definition where any character who turned tables wasn’t actually betraying anyone, happened, what, once? Vesper betrayed him, Mathis didn’t, neither did Madeline… and that’s it. I’m struggling to see the issue.
Is that good?