The James Bond Questions Thread

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  • thedovethedove hiding in the Greek underworld
    Posts: 6,126
    Yeah I took it that the angels could get closer to the animals without suspicion. The mind control was needed otherwise they would likely wish to destroy the planet.

    I have wondered how the small amounts that he gave them would wipe out or damage thousands of crops and animals. But as Blofeld states "the methods of great pioneers have often puzzled conventional minds."
  • Posts: 6,235
    I have wondered how the small amounts that he gave them would wipe out or damage thousands of crops and animals. But as Blofeld states "the methods of great pioneers have often puzzled conventional minds."

    History has shown us that great epidemics alway start with one virus.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited September 28 Posts: 19,201
    I think the point was all the girls were farmer girls and so they'd have easy inside access to all the animals and crops; plus they'd raise less suspicion than a lot of blokes.

    I guess, but it’s not like there’s only one chicken farm in the UK, say. How much damage can she do to the entire industry? And Blofeld has found girls who happen to be allergic to everything he’s targeting?
    Most of these aren’t exactly high security things, I do tend to think sending a henchman to creep into a chicken farm at the dead of night is probably less work intensive than finding, recruiting and hypnotising a girl who happens to live(?) on one. He wouldn’t exactly have to be dodging the machine guns towers to get in!
    I know it’s kind of pointless poking holes in these plots, but this one is probably the silliest in all of the films! :)
  • edited 11:31am Posts: 6,009
    I suppose we have three options...

    1) Blofeld's mad and has far too many resources available to him to enact his crazy plans.

    2) Blofeld has found some sort of theoretical reason as to why just sending men out to plant the virus would be more risky than going the lengths he does.

    3) It's what the book/script said and it'd be a much less interesting story without it ;)

    Now my random question (which I've never found a real explanation to): why in TB does Jacques Bouvard dress as his own widow to attend his fake funeral? Seems a bit stupid unless I'm missing something, and it's the only time I've really been taken out of a Bond movie.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 12:06am Posts: 19,201
    I think that’s one of those where there isn’t an answer, and we have to get into the realms of fan fiction and writing our own!
    The logical reason for faking your death and attending the funeral in disguise is that you’re trying to smoke someone out, in this case the only person who turns up and seems to want to cause Bouvar harm is James Bond, but weirdly Bond seems to be attending for the same reason, so it’s kind of like the writers have got confused. In a way it might have worked better if Bouvar had caught Bond in a trap of some sort, but instead Bouvar seems taken by surprise which kind of makes it nonsensical.
    Mind you, there are plenty of henchmen there, so perhaps capturing Bond or something similar was the plan. Maybe he was intending to romance him! Everyone knows Bond likes the ladies after all :D
  • mtm wrote: »
    I think the point was all the girls were farmer girls and so they'd have easy inside access to all the animals and crops; plus they'd raise less suspicion than a lot of blokes.

    I guess, but it’s not like there’s only one chicken farm in the UK, say. How much damage can she do to the entire industry? And Blofeld has found girls who happen to be allergic to everything he’s targeting?
    Most of these aren’t exactly high security things, I do tend to think sending a henchman to creep into a chicken farm at the dead of night is probably less work intensive than finding, recruiting and hypnotising a girl who happens to live(?) on one. He wouldn’t exactly have to be dodging the machine guns towers to get in!
    I know it’s kind of pointless poking holes in these plots, but this one is probably the silliest in all of the films! :)

    I think Blofeld wanted to the girls to show up at the local animal fairs or something; in the novel the first part of the plot is carried out and one of the girls sets off the virus at a poultry show.

    If one is being charitable to Fleming's plotting, they could say that its a continuation of the theme of Blofeld's snobbery and also his want for recognition; the same reasons he calls Bray into the middle of his criminal operation. He uses innocent British/international girls to strike because it'd be more devastating than some simple man in black sneaking into some farm.

    If one is being realistic however, then probably Fleming did not consider the logistics of finding all of these allergic girls.
  • Posts: 7,270
    Does Sir Hilary bray?
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,201
    Thinking on it more, the Bouvar TB PTS should perhaps have been more like the banker bit in the TWINE PTS, with Bond walking into a trap but realising it beforehand (with the car door thing) and having a pre-planned way of turning the tables in his favour, as with Brosnan’s glasses/gun flashbang thing. Have Bouvar’s goons close in behind him (or the widow surreptitiously draw a gun or something), fire off the gadget or whatever, then do the car door line. There needs to be a trap element to make sense of the disguise.
  • edited 11:49am Posts: 6,009
    mtm wrote: »
    Thinking on it more, the Bouvar TB PTS should perhaps have been more like the banker bit in the TWINE PTS, with Bond walking into a trap but realising it beforehand (with the car door thing) and having a pre-planned way of turning the tables in his favour, as with Brosnan’s glasses/gun flashbang thing. Have Bouvar’s goons close in behind him (or the widow surreptitiously draw a gun or something), fire off the gadget or whatever, then do the car door line. There needs to be a trap element to make sense of the disguise.

    That sounds fun! It'd make more sense than what we got. Bond tends to stretch logic, but as far as I can tell it's the only instance of something in a Bond film that makes no sense whatsoever. I suppose it's meant to be a bit daft though, although I must admit I'm not sure how much of that is intentional, especially watching the film today (I don't think that editing or choreography does Simmons and Connery during the fight - and of course Barry's score - justice. It looks pretty janky at points).
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 12:34pm Posts: 19,201
    Yeah I don’t really love it either, the fight is kind of the main part of it and it’s all a bit average, just in a big room with a weirdly supersonic sliding chair. It’s constructed as if it’s a trap for 007 but I think they liked the widow car door gag so much that it makes the whole thing wonky and not make sense (it is a good snobby gag to be fair).

    I’m also no fan of the jetpack to be honest. I mean, it could be good, but like the widow there’s no reason for it. Just go down the stairs, James.
    And like the widow, I’d say it’s fixable. Just have the chateau be one which has a moat (as in AVTAK) so he has a reason to fly. It feels like that’s why you’d choose a chateau in the first place…?

    The alarms go off, James sees the guards raising the drawbridges from a window- he’s trapped. He radios to the lovely French agent in the car outside: “Plan B”- then heads to a door to a turret. She starts the car outside, retracts the convertible roof and pulls away.
    We see some guards come rushing along and follow him through the door and up the staircase within: when they’re finally at the top they find Bond dressed in his jetpack- he fires it up and blows them all back down the stairs with the rocket draft.
    He flies over the moat, making his escape, and lands on the back seat of the French lady’s moving car. Maybe a baddie car appears, giving chase; Bond drops the jetpack over the back of the car- as they drive to pass it he shoots at it and it explodes, sending the baddie car into the moat, cut to watery titles.

    (I do think cutting away from Bond while he’s putting the jetpack on would really help it too: it’s so awkward having to watch him do it all up and pop his helmet on- find a reason to cut to the guys chasing him so you don’t have to see it)
  • Posts: 6,009
    mtm wrote: »
    Yeah I don’t really love it either, the fight is kind of the main part of it and it’s all a bit average, just in a big room with a weirdly supersonic sliding chair. It’s constructed as if it’s a trap for 007 but I think they liked the widow car door gag so much that it makes the whole thing wonky and not make sense (it is a good snobby gag to be fair).

    I’m also no fan of the jetpack to be honest. I mean, it could be good, but like the widow there’s no reason for it. Just go down the stairs, James.
    And like the widow, I’d say it’s fixable. Just have the chateau be one which has a moat (as in AVTAK) so he has a reason to fly. It feels like that’s why you’d choose a chateau in the first place…?

    The alarms go off, James sees the guards raising the drawbridges from a window- he’s trapped. He radios to the lovely French agent in the car outside: “Plan B”- then heads to a door to a turret. She starts the car outside, retracts the convertible roof and pulls away.
    We see some guards come rushing along and follow him through the door and up the staircase within: when they’re finally at the top they find Bond dressed in his jetpack- he fires it up and blows them all back down the stairs with the rocket draft.
    He flies over the moat, making his escape, and lands on the back seat of the French lady’s moving car. Maybe a baddie car appears, giving chase; Bond drops the jetpack over the back of the car- as they drive to pass it he shoots at it and it explodes, sending the baddie car into the moat, cut to watery titles.

    (I do think cutting away from Bond while he’s putting the jetpack on would really help it too: it’s so awkward having to watch him do it all up and pop his helmet on- find a reason to cut to the guys chasing him so you don’t have to see it)

    I like all that. Yes, the jet pack is one of those missed opportunities for a great Bond moment.
  • MalloryMallory Rules Reastaurant
    Posts: 2,382
    I feel with the jetpack they did all they could do with it without resorting to it looking "Thunderbirds-y" with the potential use of models and other tricks. A great piece of 60's tech, but also a very limited piece of 60's tech.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    Posts: 19,201
    Mallory wrote: »
    I feel with the jetpack they did all they could do with it without resorting to it looking "Thunderbirds-y" with the potential use of models and other tricks. A great piece of 60's tech, but also a very limited piece of 60's tech.

    I disagree; it can have a reason to be there without doing model shots, as it is, it doesn't.
  • Posts: 16,132
    mtm wrote: »
    I think the point was all the girls were farmer girls and so they'd have easy inside access to all the animals and crops; plus they'd raise less suspicion than a lot of blokes.

    I guess, but it’s not like there’s only one chicken farm in the UK, say. How much damage can she do to the entire industry? And Blofeld has found girls who happen to be allergic to everything he’s targeting?
    Most of these aren’t exactly high security things, I do tend to think sending a henchman to creep into a chicken farm at the dead of night is probably less work intensive than finding, recruiting and hypnotising a girl who happens to live(?) on one. He wouldn’t exactly have to be dodging the machine guns towers to get in!
    I know it’s kind of pointless poking holes in these plots, but this one is probably the silliest in all of the films! :)

    For your first question: with a potent virus, a lot.

    Regarding your second objection, it's not only getting to the farm, it's getting through customs without raising suspicion. It's probably doable with professional SPECTRE members, but you're increasing the risks. Henchmen can be discovered, they can be bought, they can get greedy, they can get second thoughts, they can get sloppy in the execution of the plan. Even sending them in the dead of the night is risky: if one fails, the whole operation can be compromised. With the angels, they are oblivious to what they're carrying or anything about Blofeld's true intentions. If they show up on the farm, it looks far more natural. Yes, it's complicated, yes it's costly, yes, it's not entirely full proof, but it's far safer. And I'm sure there's at least one farm girl in England allergic to poultry, etc. Finding suitable guinea pigs shouldn't be too difficult for Blofeld. He's got the resources and the organisation.
  • mtmmtm United Kingdom
    edited 8:00pm Posts: 19,201
    Ludovico wrote: »
    mtm wrote: »
    I think the point was all the girls were farmer girls and so they'd have easy inside access to all the animals and crops; plus they'd raise less suspicion than a lot of blokes.

    I guess, but it’s not like there’s only one chicken farm in the UK, say. How much damage can she do to the entire industry? And Blofeld has found girls who happen to be allergic to everything he’s targeting?
    Most of these aren’t exactly high security things, I do tend to think sending a henchman to creep into a chicken farm at the dead of night is probably less work intensive than finding, recruiting and hypnotising a girl who happens to live(?) on one. He wouldn’t exactly have to be dodging the machine guns towers to get in!
    I know it’s kind of pointless poking holes in these plots, but this one is probably the silliest in all of the films! :)

    For your first question: with a potent virus, a lot.

    But if it's that potent it can transfer between farms it barely needs to be placed anywhere with secure access at all.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Regarding your second objection, it's not only getting to the farm, it's getting through customs without raising suspicion. It's probably doable with professional SPECTRE members, but you're increasing the risks.

    We see they can conceal it in a perfume bottle. That's not going to be a massive challenge for a henchman to take through customs, I don't buy that all of his trained killers will start knocking their knees at the 'nothing to declare' line.
    Ludovico wrote: »
    Henchmen can be discovered, they can be bought, they can get greedy, they can get second thoughts, they can get sloppy in the execution of the plan. Even sending them in the dead of the night is risky: if one fails, the whole operation can be compromised. With the angels, they are oblivious to what they're carrying or anything about Blofeld's true intentions. If they show up on the farm, it looks far more natural. Yes, it's complicated, yes it's costly, yes, it's not entirely full proof, but it's far safer. And I'm sure there's at least one farm girl in England allergic to poultry, etc. Finding suitable guinea pigs shouldn't be too difficult for Blofeld. He's got the resources and the organisation.

    We're talking about getting, what, 15 or so guys he trusts? There's way more than that manning Piz Gloria already, happy to flamethrower anybody who happens to wander up the hill. He has people involved in this at every stage, not least the hypnotism experts and guys who made the electronic noises, the fellas who built the map of the world with locations of all the girls etc. - plenty of people to be bought. And the guys planting the poison don't have to know what they're even doing in the grand scheme: they just do the small part they're told to. Stand next to this fence and spray your bottle.
    I don't really buy that in every other villain's scheme they have henchmen who carry out their evil tasks of murder, creating posions to kill all animals on planet Earth, undersea bases firing nuclear weapons etc. but Blofeld's scheme here is the only one where a dozen henchmen can't be trusted to do a job and it's easier and more reliable to hynotise some random farm girls to do their jobs :D
    Makes me wonder why Blofeld's crater base wasn't full of mesmerised primary school teachers and milkmen launching those rockets ;)

    I think if they were all going into high security places where only they had access, then it would be a bit easier to swallow, but they're all no-one special as far we know and they're accessing places which aren't very hard to wander into, hardly Fort Knox. And even if they were all special high value assets, that they'd all have allergies and be willing to go to a mountaintop resort to cure them is so incredibly far-fetched. I do like how Fleming's ideas were bonkers and wacky- gambling a man to death at a casino table is a wonderful idea and holds together under its own logic, but this plan is just plain silly in so many ways.
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